Running Aimlessly Down Under - From 54 to 53 sec 400m

Chivito550

pa4 wrote: »

Are those 4x(4x50) flat out sprints? I remember doing 50m sprints at the end of a session, think I had 5 of them to do. Way harder than they seem! The hardest part is to keep your form.

Yeh pretty strong effort, close enough to flat out. The pace suffers towards the end, but it was as clear as day that the 400 guys slowed less towards the end compared to the 100/200 guys. But they were murdering us early on. Good session for both groups I think.

dna_leri

Chivito,

Do you have details for the Tullamore Open Event?
Can't seem to find much online,

THanks

Chivito550

dna_leri wrote: »

Chivito,

Do you have details for the Tullamore Open Event?
Can't seem to find much online,

THanks

Here's some info: http://www.gowranac.com/2014/06/bertie-quinn-memorial-track-and-field-meet/

I rang up. It's a meet for juniors, but seniors and masters are welcome. I'm going to head down and run a 400m. Three days before nationals, but as I'm after a time, and have no chance of qualifying from the heats in nationals, I'm thinking of striking while the iron is hot, and double my chances of running a good time, in case conditions don't play ball come nationals. Basically, not wanting to put all eggs in one basket.

Chivito550

Saturday: Track

2 sets of 3 x 100m, with about 10 minutes between sets, and plenty of recovery within each set. Wore the sprint spikes for this intense speed session. The first set was done with a 5m jog rolling start. The second set were from blocks. I enjoyed the blocks more and felt like I moved very well. You wouldn't want both sets from the blocks though. One is intensive enough as it is.

Sunday: Track

Session was 400-300-200 with 4 and 3 mins recovery. The hope was for me to run sub 60, sub 45 and sub 30. Unfortunately it wasn't to be. I was at a wedding in Malahide yesterday, and although I drank very little, I didn't get home until after 2:30am, and had an awful night of broken sleep, about 4 and a half hours in total. I felt shattered. So it was decided that I was to err on the side of caution and run within myself on this occasion, as it was not worth the risk flogging myself when that tired. Wore the middle distance spikes for this.

Times were: 63.2 - 46.3 - 28.9

Recoveries ended up being 4:35 and 3:25

I ran all reps within myself. Was quite pleased with the 200m time at the end. Overall, not the quality which was hoped for, but sometimes things get in the way. I will still have got good benefit out of the session.

Oregano_State

Those are two good sessions. I like the look of the 400, 300, 200 one in particular. I might have a go at that one myself.

Chivito550

Gym session this evening:

Bench Press: 8 x 52.5kg, 8 x 57.5kg, 8 x 62.5kg, 5 x 65kg
Leg Press: 3 x (8 x 130kg)
Squats: 6 x 75kg, 6 x 80kg, 6 x 85kg
Goodmornings: 3 x 10 @ 45kg
Russian Twists: 3 x 40 @ 10kg
Circuit Upper Body: 3 x 32 @ 20kg
Stomach Ball Crunches: 3 x 30
Planks: 3 x 60 secs

Struggled a bit with the 85kg set of squats this evening for whatever reason.

Massage tomorrow evening and then 400m race at Irishtown on Wednesday.

Chivito550

I don't really feel like doing up a race report for this one, so I will keep it brief.

400m:

Disaster of a race this evening. Felt like I was in the shape to go sub 55, or at least get close. The signs were good. 55.82 in crap conditions at Leixlip recently. One of my training group went 54.5 in Cork last night and I know from training that I am not a million miles behind her. I think I was a bit too pumped up for this one though. I saw the weather forecast and sensed a great chance for a 54. I've only recently started a new job so I also had to deal with the long day in work pre-race for the first time this season. I was feeling the nerves all day long to be honest. But I've been this nervous before so it's not something out of the ordinary.

Conditions were good, good lane draw in lane 3. Then after about 20-30m I get a spasm in my right calf which stayed with me on and off for the rest of the race. At a guess about 10-15 of them. Had to run within myself pretty much the whole way, well within myself. Cruising as the natural reaction when this happens is to ease off. I only committed in the last 50m when I knew I was going to finish and finished strongly, going past a lad who had no right to be ahead of me, quite easily in the closing stages. The guy in lane 4 ran 54.44 and I should have been up close to him.

Felt like dropping out but pig headedness made me finish. 56.32 seconds was the time. Way off what I had hoped! Can't put my finger on why this happened. I kept hyrdated all day. I rushed the warm up a bit as they were running ahead of schedule, but ended up having more time to get some more strides in, so think the warm up was fine in the end. I had a massage yesterday, which perhaps had an impact. I'm not sure. This sport is cruel at times.

Hopefully can get things back together for Tullamore next Wednesday and Nationals 3 days later. The quest for 54 seconds has been a long and frustrating one! Feeling absolutely gutted right now. A complete let down after building this up to be a good one.

thewolf_ie

I'll follow this log now. Sorry to hear you had a bad race.

pconn062

Hard luck on the result, just one of those days maybe? I agree, it's a cruel sport some of the time. Be patient, it will pay off.

Maximus Alexander

Dude, I've read 89 pages of this log. You owe it to me to get 54!

Chivito550

Thanks guys.

Reflecting on yesterday, this is by far the most disappointing experience I've had in athletics. A bad race is one thing, bad weather conditions is another, but to get ridiculously psyched up for a race and to not be able to run is properly is a bit crushing. Will take a day or two to get over it. Main focus now is for my body to be back to 100% ASAP. Calf is tight today and a bit sore, which is probably to be expected after so many spasms.

I've been told that Magnesium, Calcium and Potassium are good for avoiding cramps. Since I got home in April, right up to a few weeks ago I was taking Osteocare Liquid, 2 teaspoons every morning, which contains 300mg of calcium and 150mg of magnesium. I stopped taking it when I went on my holidays to Kerry, and just didn't go back on it when I got back. Perhaps this was a factor in yesterday's spasms, although I haven't had an issue with spasms in training despite being off the Osteocare. In any case I've gone back on it now.

Has been a frustrating season so far. Feels like I'm not having a lot of luck. When one variable is right, the other is off, or vias versa. Since I ran my 55.00 last December I've had 13 400m races, and have failed on each occasion to go sub 55. I know I'm capable of running that but it would be nice to get a bit of luck over the next couple of weeks for a change.

Oiriallach

Would you normally do a weights session that close to a race (i.e. 2 days' beforehand)?

ultrapercy

Oiriallach wrote: »

Would you normally do a weights session that close to a race (i.e. 2 days' beforehand)?

Thats what jumped out at me too, I know 0 about the mechanics of sprint training but 48 hours is not nearly enough recovery from a session like that before a race. Maybe that session was well within your capabilities but you did mention you struggled with the squats.There is always a reason for unexpectedly below par performance, if you look back tru the diary with an objective eye you will find it and correct it.

Chivito550

Oiriallach wrote: »

Would you normally do a weights session that close to a race (i.e. 2 days' beforehand)?

ultrapercy wrote: »

Thats what jumped out at me too, I know 0 about the mechanics of sprint training but 48 hours is not nearly enough recovery from a session like that before a race. Maybe that session was well within your capabilities but you did mention you struggled with the squats.There is always a reason for unexpectedly below par performance, if you look back tru the diary with an objective eye you will find it and correct it.

In Australia I used to do gym on Monday and Wednesday evenings, and races were mostly on Saturday afternoons, basically a 3 day recovery. Here the races tend to be on Wednesdays a lot. We have track sessions on Wed, Sat and Sun, so the gym has to be on the other days, so I tend to go Monday and Thursday, so that I have a 2 day rest between gym session and race. I'd rather the 3 days, and have a lighter session on the track 2 days beforehand. That's how I had it in Australia. But different country, different setup. Have to roll with it.

Oiriallach

Chivito550 wrote: »

In Australia I used to do gym on Monday and Wednesday evenings, and races were mostly on Saturday afternoons, basically a 3 day recovery. Here the races tend to be on Wednesdays a lot. We have track sessions on Wed, Sat and Sun, so the gym has to be on the other days, so I tend to go Monday and Thursday, so that I have a 2 day rest between gym session and race. I'd rather the 3 days, and have a lighter session on the track 2 days beforehand. That's how I had it in Australia. But different country, different setup. Have to roll with it.

If I were in your situation, I would consider modifying your training pattern during the season so that your training sessions are scheduled with your competitions in mind. If the others in your training group are not doing the same competitions as you are, that is likely to mean that you will end up doing several sessions on your own.

ultrapercy

Chivito550 wrote: »

In Australia I used to do gym on Monday and Wednesday evenings, and races were mostly on Saturday afternoons, basically a 3 day recovery. Here the races tend to be on Wednesdays a lot. We have track sessions on Wed, Sat and Sun, so the gym has to be on the other days, so I tend to go Monday and Thursday, so that I have a 2 day rest between gym session and race. I'd rather the 3 days, and have a lighter session on the track 2 days beforehand. That's how I had it in Australia. But different country, different setup. Have to roll with it.

You have more than likely identified the reason for your, thus far, below par season. If you make changes things will likely improve. Rolling with it when its flawed is not a good policy, certainly accept what you cannot change but improve what is within your control.

Chivito550

Thursday: Gym

Was like a raging bull in the gym on Thursday after Wednesday's frustration.

Bench Press: 8 x 52.5kg, 8 x 57.5kg, 8 x 62.5kg, 6 x 65kg
One-Legged Leg Press: 3 sets of 8 x 50kg on each leg
Squats: 6 x 75kg, 6 x 80kg, 6 x 85kg
Deadlifts: 6 x 75kg, 6 x 80kg, 6 x 82.5kg
Circuit Upper Body: 3 x 32 @ 20kg
Crunches: 3 x 50
Russian twists: 3 x 40 @ 10kg

Saturday: 2 x (3 x 40m from blocks).

A good session to mentally get past what happened on Wednesday. Can't take it easy in a block session as it defeats the purpose of it. So had to attack it, and I got through it fine.

Oiriallach wrote: »

If I were in your situation, I would consider modifying your training pattern during the season so that your training sessions are scheduled with your competitions in mind. If the others in your training group are not doing the same competitions as you are, that is likely to mean that you will end up doing several sessions on your own.

ultrapercy wrote: »

You have more than likely identified the reason for your, thus far, below par season. If you make changes things will likely improve. Rolling with it when its flawed is not a good policy, certainly accept what you cannot change but improve what is within your control.

Appreciate the concern, but I trust my coach when he says it will all come good. He knows what he is doing and has coached seriously good athletes. The setup is anything but "flawed". It is different to what I had in Australia, and so it takes time to get used to having a different schedule. That's all. Training solo would be a stupid move. It is hugely important to have others, particularly faster runners, around you. It is also crucial to be at training on the appointed days, so that technical errors can be spotted by people more knowledgeable and corrected. The track days are set in stone and are the same for everybody in the group. Most of us race similar days. Most races are on Wed, Sat or Sun. Everybody tends to do gym sessions on Mon and Thursday.

It is important to go easier in the gym in the leadup to a big race, and that is what I plan to do on Thursday, before nationals on Saturday. But what one can't be doing, and something which was drilled into me by my coach in Melbourne, is that you can't be freshening up for every race. Not every race is a goal race. If you ease off before every race then you will never train. In Melbourne, before plenty of races on a Sat, our coach would hammer us into the ground. Before the important races, we would go easy on the Thursday on the track.

I also would not consider this a below par season. It is a frustrating one, as things have not quite come together on race day yet. But the signs are that I am in excellent shape and it is only a matter of time that the big result comes. Have been told to focus on the process and not get bogged down on the results side of things. Do the right things and the results will come is what the coach says.

I've had 6 400m races this season. The first 2 were rubbish, but I was coming off a 6 week break after the Australian season, including backpacking around Europe, so I was unfit. The next 2 races were 55.88 and 56.06 (on a slower track), so by then I was almost back to the level I was at in Australia.

The last 2 races are the only ones I have had when in what I would describe as really good shape. The first was 55.82 in crap conditions. Everybody was down on their best, and the 2 guys ahead of me were a huge 1.3 seconds down on their PB and SB. This was an excellent sign of things to come, but incredibly frustrating, that the weather didn't play ball. The next one, from last Wednesday, the weather was great, but on this occasion I got spasms throughout and couldn't run flat out. I managed 56.32 basically running within myself, yet another sign of things to come, but again really frustrating. Eventually all variables will come together and I'll get under that PB of 55.00.

With regards to the spasms I think I have identified the issue. I stopped taking Osteocare liquid 3 weeks ago, which contains loads of calcium, magnesium and vitamin D. I'm back on it now, which hopefully should rectify that issue.

ultrapercy

Chivito550 wrote: »

Thursday: Gym

Was like a raging bull in the gym on Thursday after Wednesday's frustration.

Bench Press: 8 x 52.5kg, 8 x 57.5kg, 8 x 62.5kg, 6 x 65kg
One-Legged Leg Press: 3 sets of 8 x 50kg on each leg
Squats: 6 x 75kg, 6 x 80kg, 6 x 85kg
Deadlifts: 6 x 75kg, 6 x 80kg, 6 x 82.5kg
Circuit Upper Body: 3 x 32 @ 20kg
Crunches: 3 x 50
Russian twists: 3 x 40 @ 10kg

Saturday: 2 x (3 x 40m from blocks).

A good session to mentally get past what happened on Wednesday. Can't take it easy in a block session as it defeats the purpose of it. So had to attack it, and I got through it fine.





Appreciate the concern, but I trust my coach when he says it will all come good. He knows what he is doing and has coached seriously good athletes. The setup is anything but "flawed". It is different to what I had in Australia, and so it takes time to get used to having a different schedule. That's all. Training solo would be a stupid move. It is hugely important to have others, particularly faster runners, around you. It is also crucial to be at training on the appointed days, so that technical errors can be spotted by people more knowledgeable and corrected. The track days are set in stone and are the same for everybody in the group. Most of us race similar days. Most races are on Wed, Sat or Sun. Everybody tends to do gym sessions on Mon and Thursday.

It is important to go easier in the gym in the leadup to a big race, and that is what I plan to do on Thursday, before nationals on Saturday. But what one can't be doing, and something which was drilled into me by my coach in Melbourne, is that you can't be freshening up for every race. Not every race is a goal race. If you ease off before every race then you will never train. In Melbourne, before plenty of races on a Sat, our coach would hammer us into the ground. Before the important races, we would go easy on the Thursday on the track.

I also would not consider this a below par season. It is a frustrating one, as things have not quite come together on race day yet. But the signs are that I am in excellent shape and it is only a matter of time that the big result comes. Have been told to focus on the process and not get bogged down on the results side of things. Do the right things and the results will come is what the coach says.

I've had 6 400m races this season. The first 2 were rubbish, but I was coming off a 6 week break after the Australian season, including backpacking around Europe, so I was unfit. The next 2 races were 55.88 and 56.06 (on a slower track), so by then I was almost back to the level I was at in Australia.

The last 2 races are the only ones I have had when in what I would describe as really good shape. The first was 55.82 in crap conditions. Everybody was down on their best, and the 2 guys ahead of me were a huge 1.3 seconds down on their PB and SB. This was an excellent sign of things to come, but incredibly frustrating, that the weather didn't play ball. The next one, from last Wednesday, the weather was great, but on this occasion I got spasms throughout and couldn't run flat out. I managed 56.32 basically running within myself, yet another sign of things to come, but again really frustrating. Eventually all variables will come together and I'll get under that PB of 55.00.

With regards to the spasms I think I have identified the issue. I stopped taking Osteocare liquid 3 weeks ago, which contains loads of calcium, magnesium and vitamin D. I'm back on it now, which hopefully should rectify that issue.

Im sorry if I came across as critical, I didnt mean to call your season sub par I was basing on what you said in your post. As I said I know nothing about sprint training and your coach is most definitely the man to listen to.

Chivito550

ultrapercy wrote: »

Im sorry if I came across as critical, I didnt mean to call your season sub par I was basing on what you said in your post. As I said I know nothing about sprint training and your coach is most definitely the man to listen to.

No bother at all. All input is welcome.

Chivito550

Track session this morning, A very tough one. 2 x 45 second sprints with 10 minute recovery (which I reckon was a bit less to be honest). Each person runs it solo and the idea is to cover as much ground as possible until the coach says stop. Then for the second rep, try get as close to the first one as possible. Wore the sprint spikes for these. For the first rep I felt a reasonable headwind down the backstraight, which I obviously didn't get back as much on the home straight. For the second rep I felt the wind more around the the second bend. Found the last 100m of the second rep incredibly tough.

Distances covered were approx:

332m - 321m

These work out at the following 400m paces:

54.2 - 56.0

In bits after that session, but happy with the distances covered. Was a tough ask to get the second rep the same as the first. Would have liked to have been a bit closer perhaps.

thewolf_ie

How much mileage do you run a week?

Chivito550

thewolf_ie wrote: »

How much mileage do you run a week?

Hmmm, lets see. I have 3 running days per week, generally speaking. On each day I do a 2 lap warm up jog, 1 lap warm down jog. So that's 3600m in total. All my warm up drills and strides probably add up to maybe 400m per day, so that's another 1200m, bringing it up to 4800m.

The sessions can range from total of 240m if pure speed from blocks, to as high as 1500m or so if an endurance session. We'll average it at 900m per session, so that's another 2700m, bringing our total up to 7500m.

So 7.5km per week, so about 4.7 miles.

Can I count my walking to the bus and walking to work? Because that is as relevant to sprinting as slow mileage is.

Sprinters don't do mileage. It is as relevant to 400m runners as block starts and 60m reps are to marathon runners. I do one "long run" per week during the early winter phase of about 5km, and that would be it. It's a different kind of fitness. Quality over quantity.

thewolf_ie

Wow that low. See I enjoy running big mileage I'd never be able to run that little.

Chivito550

thewolf_ie wrote: »

Wow that low. See I enjoy running big mileage I'd never be able to run that little.

Give it a try. You won't know til you attempt it.

If you want to keep mileage in your routine then 800 could be for you, though you don't need as much mileage as you do for 1500 and 5k. Perhaps you could try being a 400/800 runner. Give the races a go anyway and then take it from there.

ecoli

Chivito550 wrote: »

Sprinters don't do mileage.

Semantics surely? Replace the word mileage with volume and it becomes alot more relevant to sprinters. Some coaches would advocate a bit higher than others for sure and definitely agree with quality over quantity but you will find if you break down the terminology of maximal velocity, intensive and extensive tempos, neural recruitment and acceleration there is a significant cross over in the thought processes of both distance and sprint training

@thewolf_ie low mileage would not mean a reduction of training and in fact there would probably be more time spent training but you would be working on more than just energy pathways such as muscle recruitment and biomechanics to a much greater level that the training slightly alters to include this. Effectively not all of the benefits can come from the running aspect but there are a lot of other elements to be worked

Chivito550

Gym session this evening. With Nationals on Saturday, Thursday will be an easier gym session, so I replaced the goodmornings today with the deadlifts, and will do the goodmornings on Thursday.

Bench Press: 8 x 52.5kg, 8 x 57.5kg, 8 x 62.5kg, 6 x 65kg
Leg Press: 3 sets of 6 x 130kg
Squats: 6 x 75kg, 6 x 80kg, 6 x 85kg
Deadlifts: 6 x 75kg, 6 x 80kg, 6 x 82.5kg
Circuit Upper Body: 3 x 32 @ 20kg
Stomach Ball Crunches: 3 x 30
Planks: 3 x 60 secs

I did the leg press last and on this occasion decided to drop the reps back from 8 to 6.

Day off tomorrow and then the plan is to race the 400m in Tullamore on Wednesday evening.

Chivito550

Same thing happened again. This time the left calf. It spasmed during the warm up when I tried to run flat out. Started the race but after 70m or so it spasmed again so pulled out. My first ever DNF in a 400m A completely wasted trip to Tullamore. 2 races in a row now this has happened at the peak time of the season. It would crush the spirit and really is killing my motivation.

I had no issue at training at the weekend, and this didn't happen before I started work a couple of weeks ago. My body is struggling to handle the idea of races after being up for 13 hours.

Not sure how I'm supposed to get these 2 sh!t experiences out of my head on sat evening when sitting in the blocks for nationals.

pconn062

Bad luck, very frustrating indeed. I can't offer any insight to you, I've only really come across cramping with long distance runners. Has your coach any ideas?

RacoonQueen

Only happening in evening races? Never happened in morning?

Something in your diet perhaps?

Chivito550

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Only happening in evening races? Never happened in morning?

Something in your diet perhaps?

Yep, only in evening and only since I started work.

In Australia I trained when tired (evenings after work) and raced when fresh (sat afternoons). Here its the other way around. Train weekend mornings, and stuck with wed nite races.