Running Aimlessly Down Under - From 54 to 53 sec 400m

RacoonQueen

Chivito550 wrote: »

Yep, only in evening and only since I started work.

In Australia I trained when tired (evenings after work) and raced when fresh (sat afternoons). Here its the other way around. Train weekend mornings, and stuck with wed nite races.

Never happened doing hard training in the evenings? Is your diet different? Type of work different? Any injuries in the area recently?


As a complete outsider, never did understand the evening track races. Even the BHAA ones are Weds evenings. Would have liked to give them a go (mile, 3K etc though). No chance of me racing on a Wednesday after work. Saturday evening fine when I can maybe nap during the day, not weekday.

Chivito550

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Never happened doing hard training in the evenings? Is your diet different? Type of work different? Any injuries in the area recently?

Oh the calf spasms have been a thorn in my side ever since I took this up. But I was able to manage them. Generally they would happen at the end of a track session, maybe in the 5th or 6th rep of a 6 x 150 session, or if I had very long recoveries, such as 15 minutes. My second track season, 2012/13 I was plagued with calf spasms, but last season, 2013/14 it was very rarely an issue, leading me to believe that I had finally kicked it.

Then I arrive back in Ireland, new routine etc. I get them in a few track sessions in my first 2-3 weeks back. I put this down to not being fit and strong after the backpacking around Europe. I even got one spasm in my first 200m of the season in mid May. Then after that I didn't get anything. 8 full weeks of racing and training with my calves behaving perfectly. Then last Wednesday's race, my second week in work, I get spasms, and again tonight. No issues when training sat and sunday morning just gone though.

In Australia, only twice ever have I got spasms in a race, out of about 60 sprint races, including 36 400m races. Both times was in the 400m. Once I got a spasm with 100m to go and that's all. The second time I got a few spasms throughout the race, after a long day of decathlon. And that is all, in 3 years of racing. Here I've had as much in a week. The evening races have to be a factor surely. My body has not adjusted to the new routine of working and then racing afterwards. With track days being Wed evening, sat and sun mornings, I don't get much opportunity to get used to training when tired from work.

Diet? Really have no idea. It hasn't changed drastically, but the fact I have just started work means I have a new routine as to when I eat etc. A lot more sandwiches now also than before I started work, but no more than what I would have eaten back in Australia when working there. Lunchtime in work usual equals sandwiches.

No injuries at all.

RacoonQueen wrote: »

As a complete outsider, never did understand the evening track races. Even the BHAA ones are Weds evenings. Would have liked to give them a go (mile, 3K etc though). No chance of me racing on a Wednesday after work. Saturday evening fine when I can maybe nap during the day, not weekday.

It's absolutely stupid that so many track meets are pushed to weekday evenings. It's blatantly due to the fact that club organised road races and fun runs take priority and get the "prime time" slot of weekend afternoons. It's not going to do my mindset any good ranting too much more on it, especially with Nationals to get ready for, so I'll leave it at that.

dna_leri

Chivito,

It is clearly a pain (pun intended).
I have had some issues with calf cramps but not as much as you.
I often wake up during the night with cramps, especially after a speed session.
Occasionally I will get them towards the end of a hard track session.
Even when I don't have cramps, I often have twitching calf muscles even when I am sitting down (like now).

For me 2 things help: getting up and walking about at least once an hour while at work (my job is mostly sedentary) and calf stretches. Conversely on days when I spend a lot of time on my feet I am most likely to get cramps. You can argue about whether you should do static stretching or not but when I reduce the stretching I do, I am more likely to get calf cramps. I try to do traditional calf stretches twice a day, morning and evening.

Since the nationals are on at the weekend, I assume you can do your normal preparation for a daytime event and therefore will not be affected by cramps which only happen during evening events. Sprinting is almost as much a mental as a physical event. The physical preparation was done weeks ago, don't beat yourself in the last few days.

RayCun

Chivito550 wrote: »

It's absolutely stupid that so many track meets are pushed to weekday evenings. It's blatantly due to the fact that club organised road races and fun runs take priority and get the "prime time" slot of weekend afternoons.

You could ask the organisers, but I think its more likely that the gradeds are midweek because other track competition is on the weekend.
Graded 2 was may 14th - that Saturday was the juvenile league 3 and Sunday was the national league
Following Sunday the AAI games
Graded 3 on the 28th, that Saturday was Dublin juvenile T&F champs and the All Ireland schools, Sunday was Leinster champs
Graded 4 a couple of weeks later, followed on the weekend by more juvenile champs, GV Ryan meet in Irishtown, and the Community Games
National league the weekend following
graded 5 was followed by the leinster juvenile champs, graded 6 by the Morton games, national juveniles, etc etc

(there isn't a lot of crossover of athletes at graded and juvenile competition, but there's an awful lot of officials who do both, plus you need the track itself)

Chivito550

RayCun wrote: »

You could ask the organisers, but I think its more likely that the gradeds are midweek because other track competition is on the weekend.
Graded 2 was may 14th - that Saturday was the juvenile league 3 and Sunday was the national league
Following Sunday the AAI games
Graded 3 on the 28th, that Saturday was Dublin juvenile T&F champs and the All Ireland schools, Sunday was Leinster champs
Graded 4 a couple of weeks later, followed on the weekend by more juvenile champs, GV Ryan meet in Irishtown, and the Community Games
National league the weekend following
graded 5 was followed by the leinster juvenile champs, graded 6 by the Morton games, national juveniles, etc etc

(there isn't a lot of crossover of athletes at graded and juvenile competition, but there's an awful lot of officials who do both, plus you need the track itself)

Maybe, but there definitely are a lot of weekend's without any sort of senior track and field competition. If some Juvenille event is on a Sat then there is no reason why a senior meet can't be on the Sunday, or visa versa.

Coming from an environment where 90% of races (for juniors, seniors and masters along with Little Aths) are on a Saturday makes it very hard to get used to weeknight races.

Was able to handle it up to now as I was in effect a full time athlete. Now that I have found a job it is pretty hard to conserve the energy levels for a graded meet like I had been doing (getting up at 10.30am, chilling out for most of the day etc). I'm sure by next season my body will have long adjusted to evening meets (hopefully) but that's not going to change my opinion on when meets should be.

Chivito550

dna_leri wrote: »

Chivito,

It is clearly a pain (pun intended).
I have had some issues with calf cramps but not as much as you.
I often wake up during the night with cramps, especially after a speed session.
Occasionally I will get them towards the end of a hard track session.
Even when I don't have cramps, I often have twitching calf muscles even when I am sitting down (like now).

For me 2 things help: getting up and walking about at least once an hour while at work (my job is mostly sedentary) and calf stretches. Conversely on days when I spend a lot of time on my feet I am most likely to get cramps. You can argue about whether you should do static stretching or not but when I reduce the stretching I do, I am more likely to get calf cramps. I try to do traditional calf stretches twice a day, morning and evening.

Since the nationals are on at the weekend, I assume you can do your normal preparation for a daytime event and therefore will not be affected by cramps which only happen during evening events. Sprinting is almost as much a mental as a physical event. The physical preparation was done weeks ago, don't beat yourself in the last few days.

The calf is pretty tight and sore this morning, though not as bad as the other calf last week as I pulled out of the race this time. I have a massage tonight, and having talked to the coach, I'm thinking of heading to the track at lunch tomorrow to do my warm up routine. The last thing I want going into nationals is to be thinking about my calf throughout the day and in the warm up. So a dry run the day before, more of a mental exercise than a physical one. A self fulfilling prophecy.

Men's 400 is on at 6:45pm on Sat. A bit late, but with a sleep in, and no work to worry about, I can have a more normal race day preparation.

RayCun

Chivito550 wrote: »

Maybe, but there definitely are a lot of weekend's without any sort of senior track and field competition. If some Juvenille event is on a Sat then there is no reason why a senior meet can't be on the Sunday, or visa versa.

not so many

May 10th - Irish Milers Club, Greystones
May 18th - National league
May 25th - AAI games
June 1 - Leinster champs
June 14 - GV Ryan meet
June 22nd - National league
June 27 - Le Cheile meet
July 11th - Morton games
July 19/20 - senior champs
August 2/3 - combined events and national league final
August 10th - Masters t&f

Also you have to deal with the availability of officials. In many cases its the same people working at juvenile and senior track and field events (different requirements for road races). It might suit you to have track races on saturday afternoon, but the people who are already volunteering saturday morning and Sunday afternoon may have a different opinion.

Chivito550

RayCun wrote: »

not so many

May 10th - Irish Milers Club, Greystones
May 18th - National league
May 25th - AAI games
June 1 - Leinster champs
June 14 - GV Ryan meet
June 22nd - National league
June 27 - Le Cheile meet
July 11th - Morton games
July 19/20 - senior champs
August 2/3 - combined events and national league final
August 10th - Masters t&f

Also you have to deal with the availability of officials. In many cases its the same people working at juvenile and senior track and field events (different requirements for road races). It might suit you to have track races on saturday afternoon, but the people who are already volunteering saturday morning and Sunday afternoon may have a different opinion.

Some of those are closed events (Masters T&F, League Final, Morton Games) and some of them are Friday night meets which is the same as a Wed night meet in reality (Le Cheile and Morton Games).

I understand what you are saying but I've been used to all meets being on at weekends. I guess it comes down to segregation. In Melbourne, juniors, seniors and masters all competed together at AV Shield at the same time, on a Sat afternoon. Little Athletics for the kids was on Saturday morning. Only Vic Milers meets were on weeknight evenings, along with the very odd High Velocity meet.

Victoria is the population of Ireland basically so they don't have any more volunteers than here. Things are just structured differently.

I know things will never change. I'm just having a bit of a rant to blow off some frustration.:)

RayCun

I've been at enough juvenile track and field competitions to find the idea of everyone competing together deeply hilarious.

Scarface10

I actually really like the little mid week events...think they are great. Did a number of them last year but have not been able to this year due to persistent injuries. I also work full time and in my spare time am doing an MSC. Also had to drive down from the north for them but still worthwhile. You have had it great this past while getting up at 10.30 and chilling. Have not been able to do that in about 18 years. Lol. Hope your injury clears up for you. I guess the test will be on sat night when you do your race as you will not have been working beforehand. Good luck anyway.

Chivito550

Scarface10 wrote: »

I actually really like the little mid week events...think they are great. Did a number of them last year but have not been able to this year due to persistent injuries. I also work full time and in my spare time am doing an MSC. Also had to drive down from the north for them but still worthwhile. You have had it great this past while getting up at 10.30 and chilling. Have not been able to do that in about 18 years. Lol. Hope your injury clears up for you. I guess the test will be on sat night when you do your race as you will not have been working beforehand. Good luck anyway.

Haha, ah now, I wasn't loafing til half 10 every day, just on race days.

Maurice Greene.

Hey C,

With regard to your calf problems, I have seen you run in the various meets throughout the season and while I'm no expert, I believe your problem is that you are engaging your calfs too much as you sprint. I think its a mechanical problem and how your running form is at present. I have read that a sprinters power is made up of 5% calf, the rest is mainly glute/ham and back muscles.
I had a lot of calf problems a few years ago but not anymore. The only way I see you correct this is by changing your running form with the relevant drills. I have put a huge amount of time/effort into drills this season, to the point of it becoming monotonous. Primarily my speed has improved with less weights but I also rarely suffer with injury to the point I can't train/race....

Chivito550

Massage last night and the calves have been completely loosened out. Popped down to the track on my lunch break today to do a warm up routine, to help get my head right for tomorrow after what happened on Wednesday. Did my normal routine in the flats. Then in spikes I did two fast 50m sprints on the straight, one 50m sprint on the bend, and finished things off with a 120m from the 400m start running it like how I would run the first 120m of a 400m. Came through it all good and am now feeling a lot better about tomorrow.

Chivito550

54.88 at Nationals! Get the fcuk in!!!

Oregano_State

Fair fúcks man, I told you it would come! Santry is the fastest/best track I've ever run on, still haven't raced there yet though. Was this your first time?

thewolf_ie

Chivito550 wrote: »

54.88 at Nationals! Get the fcuk in!!!

Delighted for you!

Chivito550

Oregano_State wrote: »

Fair fúcks man, I told you it would come! Santry is the fastest/best track I've ever run on, still haven't raced there yet though. Was this your first time?

My third time running a 400m at Santry. The first was a terrible 57.00 at the AAI Games back in May. Then 55.88 a couple of weeks later. It is a fine track indeed. Have run on a couple of great tracks in Melbourne but none of them were mondo.

Maurice Greene.

Thats really good C, another milestone reached. Congrats!

Chivito550

Race report of nationals probably to come tomorrow. First an update on this morning's session. A recovery session of 4 laps of jogging the bend and striding the straights in the middle distance spikes. Stride pace starting off easy for the first lap, gradually building to about 85% by the time of the last lap. Total running time was 6:52. I timed my last stride at around 14.5ish seconds.

Chivito550

About a year or so into my time as a 400m runner, a goal started to appear into my head: I wanted to run in the Irish National Championships. At the time I was only running 58/59 seconds, and I was in Melbourne. But the idea stayed in my head. I wanted to run at Nationals. But not just run at them, run a time that would be respectable at a championships of such prestige. On Saturday I fulfilled both. Here's the story.

Setting the target:

For my second track season in Melbourne, 2012/13, I had a target to run 55.99 or better. I had a great season, but missed out on my goal, with 56.26 being my best mark. However despite missing out on the 55, I didn't want that to remain my goal for the following season. I had been very close to going sub 56, so felt that I would be doing myself an injustice to keep that as my target. So in late April 2013 I made a goal for the 2013/14 Victorian track season to run the 400m in 54.99 or better.

So close and yet so far:

In my 4th race of the season, in November 2013 I finally recorded that sub 56, with a 55.91 at an AV Shield meet in Lakeside Stadium. Then a month later came the big breakthrough, a massive PB of 55.00 at the High Velocity Club meet in Knox just before Christmas. I was agonisingly short of my season target, but it was a massive PB so I was over the moon. I still had half a season left, so surely it would come right?

After a few weeks at home for Christmas, including plenty of hard training, I arrived back to Melbourne for the business end of the season. What followed were consistent performances, which I am very proud of. But over time the frustration began to grow and grow that this pesky 54 was starting to elude me.

The first 7 failed attempts:

1) 55.59 (9th place at the Vic Country Championships, missing out on the final by 0.15 seconds)
2) 55.43 (At High Velocity Club meet)
3) 55.58 (At a Shield meet in Bendigo)
4) 55.7h (At a very low key unofficial meet in Geelong)
5) 55.56 (At the Victorian State Championships)
6) 55.34 (At the Victorian Decathlon Championships, less than 24 hours after my run in the Vic 400m, possibly my greatest ever run)
7) 56.15 (Last race in Melbourne, on a poor track, in windy conditions on tired legs)

Gone backwards:

After the Australian season I moved home. However I took some time off to backpack around Europe for 5 weeks. Many stunning cities were visited from the gelaterias of Rome to the spas of Budapest. A culturally enriching experience, but a disaster from an athletics viewpoint. I had planned to do winter training through most of the trip, but injury put paid to that. Not a running injury, but from excessive walking in poor shoes around cobblestoned streets and up dodgey 1000 year old steps! At one point, half way through my trip I could barely walk without unbearable pain in my right heel, and had to resort to flip flops for awhile. I recall one moment when waiting for a bus in Salzburg, I was completely down about my chances of running 54 come the Irish season. It was at this point that I stopped attempting to train on my holidays and I didn't run another step until I returned back to Dublin. The right decision in hindsight.

Failed attempts 8-14:

Within a day of arriving back in Dublin I got stuck into training and arrived at the track to join up with the group who I had trained with when I was home for Christmas. Fitness levels weren't great but I got the head down and didn't race a 400m for 4 and a half weeks, preferring to train through and build my fitness back up. Confidence was growing. Then my first 400m brought me crashing right back down to earth.

8) 57.00: After running a surprise 200m PB at the AAI Games, I followed it up with a disturbingly slow season opener over my preferred distance.

9) 57.33: A win in a weak field at the graded meets confirmed what I already suspected, that I was simply not fit enough. I had gone straight from summer season into summer season, with a break in between. I lacked the winter build up that the others in the group had, and my 400m was suffering badly as a result. Fitness is hugely important over 400m and the lack of hills and speed endurance was really showing.

I skipped the Leinster Championships and focused on 2 weeks of hard training to try improve the speed endurance. The next 2 results signaled improvements:

10) 55.88 at Graded Meet in Santry in perfect conditions.

11) 56.06 at the GV Ryan meet in Irishtown

Another couple of weeks training followed and finally I felt in shape to seriously attack the 54. More frustration followed:

12) 55.82 at the Le Cheile meet in Leixlip in cold and windy conditions.

13) 56.32 at the graded meet in Irishtown, with my calf spasming the entire race, running well within myself as a result.

14) The lowest moment of all, just 3 days before nationals, a DNF in Tullamore, again due to spasms.

Picking myself up:

The disappointment after last Wednesday was crushing. The previous week I was so gutted but managed to pick myself back up. The thoughts of having to go through this horrific process again was a killer. I didn't have much time until Nationals, and if I couldn't get back into a positive mindset it would basically be game over before it even began.

In the midst of all the disappointment I think I figured out that the spasms in races were due to my new routine since finding a job. My body was simply too tired to go racing in the evenings, and judging by my training sessions the previous weekend, when fresh I would be fine.

Ecoli loosened out the calves completely on the Thursday evening, and on the Friday I tested them out on the track, for more mental reassurance more than anything, to help banish the negatives that were still floating around in my head. It was a success. I got through it fine and so could enter the Nationals in a positive frame of mind. Back on track.

Pre-race preparation:

My race was not due to start until 6.45pm, so I made sure to sleep as late as possible, not waking until about 10am, and not getting out of bed until about 11:30am. Basically I wanted to shorten my active day as much as possible, to conserve my energy.

However, one thing I hadn't taken into consideration was this godforsaken Longitude festival. It played complete havoc around my local area. I was sitting waiting for a bus for what seemed an age, with each bus dropping off the tracker suddenly when it got to 8 minutes to go. Waiting for a bus is never fun, but when it is compounded by the visual pollution of 17 year old piss head scangers dressed like complete whooores, it makes the situation intolerable. Fortunately a taxi driver offered to bring me to Santry on the cheap. His son is a runner so he took pity. This shaved a good half hour off the journey and was back well ahead of schedule, allowing me the time to relax at the stadium which I wanted, rather than going straight into my warm up.

Warm up and call room:

After so many negative energy being burnt over the previous week and a half I felt a real sense of calm as I began my warm up. Yes I was nervous, but I was determined to enjoy the experience. You only get one first nationals, so I wanted to soak in every little detail. Brian Gregan, Brian Murphy, Dara Kervick. They were all there, warming up beside me. I took a few glances, but made sure not to be in awe of them, as that would be too distracting. I simply took enjoyment from getting the chance to warm up at the same time, for the same competition, as the best runners in this country.

The call room, on the other hand, is not the most fun experience. I'm used to racing straight after I finish my warm up, so to sit in a room for up to 30 minutes after warming up is a bit of a nuisance. This is when the reality that you are at a championship dawns on you. It wasn't alien to me though, and my three Vic Championship appearances had me somewhat prepared. But there's something about it being a National Championships that adds to the tension.

I was drawn in heat 4 of 4, meaning I would have to wait until the very end. Not ideal. I was given lane 2, a lane I like, but everyone else was outside me. In a race where I am out of my depth I prefer to be in the outer lanes to give myself the misplaced illusion that I am "in the race" for longer. However one lad hadn't been assigned a lane, so they had to throw him into lane 1 of my heat. Not good for him, but I was well happy now.

There was a lot of sitting around, too much in fact. We would regularly leave the call room for a few strides to keep warm. There wasn't much chat amongst the competitors Dara Kervick was sitting beside me.

Conditions:

I really could not find any complaints with the conditions. It had been breezy during the afternoon, but by the time my race was about to start it was fairly still. It was overcast, but dry and warm. The way I like it.

400m:

As I went to set up my blocks I noticed two unusual things:

1) There were wires coming out of the starting blocks. I thought to myself that I better not twitch my feet before the gun goes, like you see on TV!

2) There was a basket behind my starting blocks along with a volunteer standing behind it. This was for my bags etc. Of course I left all this stuff inside and all I brought out with me was a bottle of water, a t-shirt and my bag for my spikes. I left them at the side of the track. I couldn't have been bothered using the basket just for the sake of it.

My coach told me to attack the first 200m, but keep it controlled. I drove hard out of the blocks for the first 60m, before easing back, but still pushing hard. Within about 70m the guy inside me had eaten up the stagger on me. I kept him and the lad in lane 3 in my sights. The rest I didn't really notice at all during the race.

After about 170m I consciously eased back just slightly as I felt I may have been going too fast. As I hit the half way mark the guys in lanes 1 and 3 are still relatively close to me. At this point I hear one of my training partners shout out. At this point I put an end to my very brief respite and upped the effort levels. The other guys are stretching away from me and I am pretty much on my own. As I round the bend I see a clock. Usually there is only one at the finish line, but on this occasion there is one at the 100m to go mark, and I see 40 seconds on the clock. I couldn't comprehend it at time, but this meant I was well on pace.

The last 100m were tough but I stayed relaxed, resisting all urges to tense up and "try too hard". With 40m to go though the lactic hit me so badly, perhaps the worst I've ever experienced. I was about 20m down on the guy in second last, but it felt like an age as I was in complete agony, and I felt like I was crawling. I was suffering from a very aggressive first 300m. I crossed the line with not an ounce of energy left in the tank.

For the first minute after I was relatively ok and went over to shake the hands of the lad in lane 1 who was on the floor. However it hit me very soon after and I was barely able to stand or walk for the next 15 minutes. Purely shattered.

I knew I ran the best I could possibly have run, and knew I would be very close based on my unofficial split at 300m. I couldn't have run better on the day so I decided that I would be proud of whatever the electronic timing would say.

When I saw the results posted on the wall my heart started pounding as I scrolled my eyes down the sheet. Then came an eruption of pure elation. 54.88 seconds, a PB by 0.12 seconds, the sweetest 0.12 seconds in the world. After running that 55.00 last December I had 14 failed attempts to go 0.01 faster. I had a far from ideal lead up into this season, and only 8 weeks previous I was in poor shape running 57. To turn it around in such a short time, and pull out this result in the biggest race of my life was a cause for intense self-satisfaction. I was so over the moon with excitement and joy, and it was probably not until the next day that I had calmed down slightly.

Final words:

I've been at the 400m seriously now for about 3 years, and have now toed the line 44 times. PBs are becoming less frequent these days. But it's the rarity of them that makes them all the more satisfying. Not knowing when the next one will be means you really need to soak it in when it happens. At the moment I'm not even remotely thinking about 53. I will in good time, but right now I'm just getting used to finally being able to be called a 54 second runner. That's something that I'll always have now.

dna_leri

well done, you have worked hard for that.

Scarface10

I know that feeling of pain after the 400 that you are talking about...it's pure he'll...legs won't work...head sore...in bits really...lol

Well done on getting the time...grand achievement.

Deano7788

Congrats man, having read through all your efforts these past few years its definitely well deserved.

pa4

Well done. You really deserve it for the hard work and dedication you put in.

pconn062

Jeez, I don't usually read really long race reports but that was a bit of an epic! Well done again, great race and now you can start planning making a final in a National Championships.

Maximus Alexander

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Dude, I've read 89 pages of this log. You owe it to me to get 54!

Well, you delivered.

Good job and congratulations!

Timmaay

Fair play, it shows what a huge roller coaster athletics can be! What's up next so? 52? Sub2 for 800 ha?

Krusty_Clown

Great result. Congrats. Just goes to show how important persistence and determination can be (and also the fine line between success and failure at the 400m).

Chivito550

pconn062 wrote: »

Jeez, I don't usually read really long race reports but that was a bit of an epic! Well done again, great race and now you can start planning making a final in a National Championships.

Haha. I might have to look into Andorran citizenship to manage that!! The field was absolutely stacked at the weekend. 48 was required to make the final!

Timmaay wrote: »

Fair play, it shows what a huge roller coaster athletics can be! What's up next so? 52? Sub2 for 800 ha?

I've still got some races left for this season. Once the season is over I'll set new targets depending on where I finish up at the end of this season. 53 would be the next obvious target. I certainly won't be attempting sub 2 anyway!

Maximus Alexander

Chivito550 wrote: »

Haha. I might have to look into Andorran citizenship to manage that!! The field was absolutely stacked at the weekend. 48 was required to make the final!



I've still got some races left for this season. Once the season is over I'll set new targets depending on where I finish up at the end of this season. 53 would be the next obvious target. I certainly won't be attempting sub 2 anyway!

I presume that for now you'd be happy to repeat that performance before the end of the season? It would be great for your confidence and would hopefully make 53 attainable next season.