Running Aimlessly Down Under - From 54 to 53 sec 400m

Pisco Sour

‎59.44 seconds at the Victorian Country Athletics Championships this morning, a PB by 0.91 seconds :-) Delighted to have officially gone under the 60 second barrier, although I had quiet hopes of getting into the 58's, but hopefully the next day. Was quite windy today. Ended up 13th out of the 16 entrants, with 54.33 needed to make the final, which was eventually won in 47.74. Some very fast competition out there today!

Report later

drquirky

Good running dude. Congrats.

Woddle

Delighted for you, well done.

Pisco Sour

With the Australian Open taking up the following weekend I was due to miss out on the next round of the AV Shield as a result, and thus an attempt at the sub 60 over 400m. Rather than have to make a decision between the race and one of the best live sporting events I have previously attended, I decided to compromise. Go to the tennis as planned, and get a race in the week before instead, up in Bendigo, 2 hours north of Melbourne, for the Victorian Country Championships. I entered just the 400m and as that was early Saturday morning, I decided to head up late Friday evening.

Not willing to spend needless cash on fancy hotels, I booked myself into a backpackers. However this particular hostel was a dive, with the rudest creep running the place. Upon giving me the key to my dorm, I walk in to find 1) the light isnt working, and 2) a fecking cat jumping out from one of the beds! When I reported the light problem he moved me to another dorm, which I had to myself (business is clearly at an all time high here!!), so essentially I got a private room for 29 dollars. What a killer deal! In this dorm there was a double bed, a single bed, and a bunk. The gentleman reminds me that "it goes without saying" that I am only entitled to a single bed and not a double bed, as I have to pay twice the amount for a double bed, regardless of the fact it was in a dorm, and that there was not a single other person staying there that night! What a total kn0b. I blatently stayed in the double bed, and then as a thank you for the great hospitality I left my dirty dishes for the muppet to clean up the next morning!

One of the coaches, who was competing in 3 events over the weekend, picked me up at 8am and within minutes we were at the track and I signed in immediately for my 9.45am start. Warm up was fine. 800m jog, stretches, very light core workout, followed by strides in my road running shoes. Closer to the time I followed this up with strides in the spikes. Conditions were insanely windy and indeed the wind measurements for some of the sprints and jumps got up to -7.5m/s. This was a bit of a concern for me, but in the end of the day, over 400m it is less of an issue than 100 and 200, and also there's nothing I can do about the weather so was pointless worrying about it. Besides, the track was bone dry, and the weather was sunny so it could have been far worse.

There were 17 entered into my event which would have meant 3 heats, but only 16 signed in an hour before the race so the 17th guy ghot scratched. 15 minutes before the race he shows up and realises that he was so busy with his warm up that he forgot to sign in. Total muppet! So instead there was 2 heats of 8 and I was drawn in lane 4 of heat 2, a plum draw! Had no idea how fast the others would be but I expected top be at the rear of the field and just intended up run my own race. The gun went off and I got out well and went out hard for 40m and settled. The wind was probably at our back on the backstraight, though I cant say I noticed, so it probabaly helped me, and I felt like I was cruising. Despite that I did notice after around 80-90m the guy in lane 3 go past me. The rest of the field was all a blur to me and I didnt notice them, but this guy caught my attention. coming up to half way and I begin to notice that perhaps he went out too fast and I could catch him. I am delighted, I now have a guy to race against, rather than being on my own! I push on at around 210m to go and from then on it is full speed. But I am feeling good, comfortable and relaxed. I am doing my best not to strain as that is counter productive. I'm pushing hard but in as relaxed manner as I can manage. Coming into the home straight, and I have my friend in lane 3 in my sights. The wind doesnt feel as bad as it might have, but maybe it was, I felt in the zone and I didnt really notice things as much as I might on other occasions. He had been a good 10-12m ahead of me by half way and now he is dying, and I am realing him in. It's a great feeling. Forget about the rest of the guys who are comfortable out in front. It is now me versus him. A randomer has become my enemy and there is no way I am letting him get me. With 50m to go I sail past him and he has nothing left, and I beat him comfortably in the end by about 0.8 or 0.9 seconds. The winning time was 50.50 seconds and for some reason I thought it was only about 7-8 seconds between him and me. The whole race was a blur and I convinced myself I had run 57 or 58. No real logic behind it, it just felt fast and I wasn't thinking straight. For this reason when I saw my official result 20mins later of 59.44 seconds I was initially disappointed because I convinced myself that I had run faster, but this didnt last long and soon enough I was feeling very pleased with my result and the fact I had now achieved a goal I set last June, and quite comfortably in the end too.

Overall I finished in 13th place out of 16. The 16th place runner was well off the pace in 68 seconds, but 14th and 15th were 60 second performances so it was nice to get ahead of some good competition. To make the final I would have needed 54.33, and the final was won in the high 47's. Very strong competition out there but it was good to get in amongst them, and it was equally enjoyable hearing my name announced out before the race. All this goes with championship running. It's just that bit more special than the regular AV Shield meets. 570 athletes in total competed over the weekend.

Chatting to my nemisis after I found out he is a 12 low and 24 runner over 100 and 200. He clearly hasnt figured out the magic formula over 400 yet, as my 100 and 200 times arent remotely close to his.

One of the most encouraging aspects of my run was that I wasnt even terribly tired afterwards, unlike the last few 400m races. The fitness levels have improved greatly over the xmas break and I am dying for the next big 400m race to try get under 59.

A quick mention to the coach at my club who ran the Masters steeplechase right after my race. He led for the first half but got reeled in and coming up to the last hurdle he is a solid 10m behind. He then launches a ridiculously impressive sprint, and within the last 40m nearly reels in yer man in front of him and was just pipped by about 1 metre. Quite incredible stuff and it got a fair roar from the crowd.

Next up is the Vic Milers meet on tuesday evening at Lakeside Stadium where I will run an 800m race. Record entries of over 200. I hope to beat my PB of 2:27.9. We'll see how the legs feel anyway.

Pisco Sour

Day off yesterday to let the muscles recover from Saturday's 400m race. This evening I took it lightly. 4x200 with 3 min break at about 80%. I messed up the timing of the first one and the times of the other 3 were:

39(mid) - 39(mid) - 39(low)

Tomorrow night I run an 800m race at the Vic Milers meet at Albert Park. I am in the 2nd slowest heat and on seasons best I am the slowest in that heat which is perfect for me, and my hopes of chasing a fast time. It would have been a disaster to have been the fastest in the slowest heat which could well have happened. Weather is 35 degrees tomorrow which is a worry but wull just get on with it. Hope to go out in 70 and hang on and get in or around 2:25. We'll see how it goes. No real pressure on the 800 as it is not an event I train for.

Sprocket77

04072511 wrote: »

I am in the 2nd slowest heat and on seasons best I am the slowest in that heat which is perfect for me, and my hopes of chasing a fast time. It would have been a disaster to have been the fastest in the slowest heat which could well have happened.

Would it not have been good to have been the fastest in the slowest heat, then you could actually win the heat?

Pisco Sour

Sprocket77 wrote: »

Would it not have been good to have been the fastest in the slowest heat, then you could actually win the heat?

Not really. I dont care much for a soft win. I would rather come last in 2:26 than come first in 2:27.

Anyway my clubmate is in my heat and although he is ranked ahead of me on seasons best (by about 0.8 of a second), the one time we raced over 800 this year I killed him by about 8 seconds. He led for 500m and I then surged past him and he died a death. I have no doubt I will be ahead of him again tomorrow.

Pisco Sour

Disappointing evening at the Vic Milers meet at Lakeside Stadium. Had high hopes of a PB over 800m, but the heat was just unreal, at around 32 degrees at 7pm for my race. Hoped to go through the first lap in 70, but I had little energy and felt a bit weak before the start despite the fact I kept hydrated. Went through the first lap in 75 and didnt have much for a strong second lap so decided to drop out. Disappointing, but that's the way it goes sometimes. Tough conditions.

Report to follow.

Pisco Sour

Was hoping that this would be a good opportunity to run a PB in the 800m, but unfortunately it was not one of my better days.

The heat was savage, at around 32 degrees at 7pm when my race was on. I was the 2nd race on the entire programme so I got the worst of the heat, while the faster guys in the 800 and all the 1500m races had cooler conditions, as the sun went down, and cloud started to cover the track. It was unlucky but that's the way it goes sometimes. Walking around felt uncomfortable and the wind felt like a hot blow dryer into my face. Deep down I knew that I wasn't going to run well and no matter how positive I tried to think, my body was not listening. I downed 2 bottles of water diluted with powerade, and another 2 bottles of water, in a desperate attempt to stay hydrated but to no avail. I felt a little weak before the race, sapped of much energy.

Hoped to go out in 70 seconds for the first 400m but I just didnt have it in me. The first 200m was done in 35 seconds, but I was falling behind my club mate who I beat so easily before Christmas. Reached the bell in 75 seconds, and immediately decided to step off the track. There was no point in limping away to a 2:36 when on a good day I am capable of running sub 2:25, and by doing so I could do myself some damage. The weather was seriously tough to deal with.

Came in for some stick off one of the coaches in the club afterwards which I was not happy about. He said to me that I should never ever drop out of a race, and that if I am not feeling good then do not start the race in the first place. A bit harsh. I wanted to give it a go, and see what I had. I didnt feel strong before the race but the only way of knowing was to give it a shot, which I did, and it wasnt there on the day and IMO I rightly pulled out for my own welfare.

This guy didn't have a notion that I had only run a 400m 3 days previously, and in 59.44. And I got the whole "back in my day, I'd run a 200m, followed by a 1500m, I'd do a relay, and I'd back it up with triple and a jav" blah blah blah.

I find that people down here don’t comprehend just how difficult the Australian summer heat is for somebody from our part of the world.

He did give one piece of good advice though and suggested maybe doing some 500m reps as part of my 400m training, to further help endurance, but I'm not sure if he sees this as a master plan at getting me faster over 800m or not. In the end of the day the 800m are not the focus.

Disappointing evening, and I'm rareing to get out training tonight to make up for what basically was an evening lost.

I did spend some time chatting to Dermot McDermot (who ran in the A 800m race and came 6th in 1:53) and David Campbell (who is currently training down here under Nic Bideau, Sonia's husband). Good to have a chat to some Irish athletes. Helps keep ya in touch with the going-ons at home.

RayCun

I was talking to another boardsie last year before a mile race, my first on a track or that short, and he said that if you're running it right then by lap two or three you will be looking for potholes or stones on the track that you could 'trip over' so you'll have an excuse to stop
But I agree with your coach, giving up in a race is a bad habit to get into, and really, what kind of damage were you going to do by running for another 75 seconds? You weren't injured, you just weren't having a good race. HTFU and it will stand to you next time, drop out and it makes it easier to quit again.

drquirky

I agree w/ Raycun. TBH reading your log I think the thing you need to work on most in your training right now is your endurance/ pain tolerance. A 70 second 400 should be a breeze for you right now and I'm shocked that you aren't running 2:15/ 2:16 now based on your 400m times....

I would add a few more 5k runs during your week and build your aerobic capacity. Also I agree that a bit of HTFU may be needed here....

I don't intend any disrespect but I echo the tone of several posters to your log- you simply aren't working hard enough on the type of training that will allow you to finish strong....

Pisco Sour

Lads I was running in an oven and felt physically weak starting the race. It just wasn't there on the day. First race I've ever dropped out of so there has to be a geniune reason for me doing so. Those days that you get northerly winds down here are absolute murder. I haven't raced in such conditions before so my body just couldnt deal with it.

True the fall off from my 400m to 800m is huge, but I'm not focusing on the 800m so that's to be expected. A female elite 400m runner going 53 seconds should be going 2:02 for 800m based on 400m time, but they do? No because they dont focus on the event.

But point taken about my endurance and a 2x500m at 95% is something I will need to look at bringing into my training. Having said that, my endurance over 400m races has been great all year. I've always finished strong and have been passing or catching athletes in the last 150m all year long. Geniunely do not recall being passed once in the last 100m.

Did a 5x100m hill session on the Tan with 2 minute breaks and it was a great confidence booster, with my fastest set of times to date:

22(high) - 22(high) - 22(low) - 22(mid) - 22(high)

On my 4th rep there was some lad doing a sprint hill session on the same hill as me (albeit for just 70m) and I stormed past him, which felt good.

Was absolutely boll0xed after the session and was too knackered to do my usual core session afterwards.

Tuesday's race fully behind me now.

RayCun

I bet if you were ahead of your clubmate you wouldn't have dropped out :rolleyes:

Pisco Sour

RayCun wrote: »

I bet if you were ahead of your clubmate you wouldn't have dropped out :rolleyes:

Of course I wouldn’t. To be ahead of him I would have had to be running well and feeling well. If I was running well AND feeling well then there would be no reason to drop out.

Every now and again in Melbourne we get freak days where the conditions are simply unbearable. We had 3 days about 2 weeks ago where it was 35-35-41 with northerly winds (basically like a blow dryer on maximum temperature into your face), and this week we got another 2 days in the mid 30s like that. It was 35 all day on Tuesday and by the time I raced it hadn’t dropped by much. Running in 35 with a southerly wind is one thing, but with a northerly wind makes it absolutely impossible for somebody like myself to compete to my best, without my body getting the right conditioning towards competing in those conditions. These days are rare down here so it’s not like you get much practice at it.

If you had a marathon and the weather was like that, you wouldn’t be allowed to run, simple as that. The race would be stopped. However I would like to see you race in conditions like that. Perhaps you might be a little more sympathetic then.

RandyMann

Do you want to be a 400m runner or an 800m runner or both or be a multi eventer?

Pisco Sour

RandyMann wrote: »

Do you want to be a 400m runner or an 800m runner or both or be a multi eventer?

400m runner. I only do 800m for fun, and as an endurance workout. The 400m is the event I enjoy the most, which I seem to be suited towards the most, and the event that I enjoy training for the most, so it makes sense to focus on it.

I don't enjoy long runs, and to be a good 800m runner you need to put in miles, and by doing so it would be counterproductive towards my 400m.

I'd rather be the master at one, rather than the jack of all trades. I love racing the 100, 200 and 800, but everything is focused around the 400.

drquirky

04072511 wrote: »

Of course I wouldn’t. To be ahead of him I would have had to be running well and feeling well. If I was running well AND feeling well then there would be no reason to drop out.

Every now and again in Melbourne we get freak days where the conditions are simply unbearable. We had 3 days about 2 weeks ago where it was 35-35-41 with northerly winds (basically like a blow dryer on maximum temperature into your face), and this week we got another 2 days in the mid 30s like that. It was 35 all day on Tuesday and by the time I raced it hadn’t dropped by much. Running in 35 with a southerly wind is one thing, but with a northerly wind makes it absolutely impossible for somebody like myself to compete to my best, without my body getting the right conditioning towards competing in those conditions. These days are rare down here so it’s not like you get much practice at it.

If you had a marathon and the weather was like that, you wouldn’t be allowed to run, simple as that. The race would be stopped. However I would like to see you race in conditions like that. Perhaps you might be a little more sympathetic then.

There is a fairly massive difference between racing a marathon in heat like that and racing 800 meters....The heat really shouldn't be a big facotr in a short race like 800 m

RayCun

04072511 wrote: »

If you had a marathon and the weather was like that, you wouldn’t be allowed to run, simple as that. The race would be stopped. However I would like to see you race in conditions like that. Perhaps you might be a little more sympathetic then.

It's not very likely in Ireland :pac:But we get bad weather here too - I think these runners in the 2010 Cork marathon weren't happy about the weather when they woke up that morning, but they got out and raced anyway.

Look, conditions were bad on the day, sure. But you were fit going into the race, you were fit to run the next day, and there was no injury risk. You dropped out because you weren't running well and you weren't motivated to run that second lap. I'm not calling you out for a sin against running, I'm just saying that you're not doing yourself any favours. Sometimes when you race, you feel great from start to finish and it's a joy. Other times there's a mental battle to go with the physical battle. You see your goal slipping away and you want to give up, or someone passes you out and you think you're ****, or you know you can set a good time so you relax a bit instead of pushing on to get that better time. The voices in your head will come up with a million reasons why you should stop trying. And every time you listen to them, it gets easier to listen to them next time. And every time you tell them to **** off it becomes easier to ignore them next time. You're already making excuses for why you can't possibly be a good 800m runner, and this is another one.

Pisco Sour

RayCun wrote: »

It's not very likely in Ireland :pac:But we get bad weather here too - I think these runners in the 2010 Cork marathon weren't happy about the weather when they woke up that morning, but they got out and raced anyway.

Look, conditions were bad on the day, sure. But you were fit going into the race, you were fit to run the next day, and there was no injury risk. You dropped out because you weren't running well and you weren't motivated to run that second lap. I'm not calling you out for a sin against running, I'm just saying that you're not doing yourself any favours. Sometimes when you race, you feel great from start to finish and it's a joy. Other times there's a mental battle to go with the physical battle. You see your goal slipping away and you want to give up, or someone passes you out and you think you're ****, or you know you can set a good time so you relax a bit instead of pushing on to get that better time. The voices in your head will come up with a million reasons why you should stop trying. And every time you listen to them, it gets easier to listen to them next time. And every time you tell them to **** off it becomes easier to ignore them next time. You're already making excuses for why you can't possibly be a good 800m runner, and this is another one.

Gotta love the fact that the only comment of yours on this thread to date was after the one bad race I've had this year :rolleyes:

I said twice already that I felt physically weak beforehand, which you continue to ignore. I didn't feel good when I toed the line and in hindsight I probably shouldn't have raced.

And I'm not making excuses for not being a good 800m runner. I simply am not trying to be a good 800m runner. I'm trying to be a good 400m runner. The 800m races are for fun, and little more. If I was targetting the 800m then I'd be doing different a type of training.

RayCun

okay, no more friendly advice :rolleyes:

Pisco Sour

RayCun wrote: »

okay, no more friendly advice :rolleyes:

Nah, the advice is fine. You're just picking the bits you want out of what I have said, and ignoring other parts of the story.

EDIT: I actually agree with pretty much most of what you have said, just to be clear. The point is that I felt weak before starting the race, which was due to the weather. Under normal conditions I would never dream of dropping out of a race, and indeed have never done so in my life.

I prefer to look at the positives of this. It got me hungry for the next day and I put in one of my best sessions of the season as a result, and it has also helped re-focus me after the elation of the sub 60 last Saturday.

Lock

Hey just wondering what your upcoming racing schedule is like in relation to 400m/800m? I hear ya on the 800m not being your event thing. When its not your preferred distance the same focus isn't usually there on race day anyway I find.

Fair play on breaking 60, I've never done it myself! Do you plan on doing more 500s/600s to give you that extra strength to get down under 57 or are you just going to keep doing what you're doing now?

Pisco Sour

Lock wrote: »

Hey just wondering what your upcoming racing schedule is like in relation to 400m/800m? I hear ya on the 800m not being your event thing. When its not your preferred distance the same focus isn't usually there on race day anyway I find.

Fair play on breaking 60, I've never done it myself! Do you plan on doing more 500s/600s to give you that extra strength to get down under 57 or are you just going to keep doing what you're doing now?

Definetely. It’s definitely worth throwing a few longer rep sessions in. At the moment the main sessions I am doing are the 5x100 hill, 4x200 and 3x300, but a 2x500 or 2x550 or something like that would be a nice addition to my training, and freshen things up a bit. I tend to train 4 days a week, but with competition back up and running again now, it tends to be 3 days training and 1 days competition per week, so on those weeks it may have to be a rotation between the 3x300 and the 2x500 sessions.

ecoli

04072511 wrote: »

Definetely. It’s definitely worth throwing a few longer rep sessions in. At the moment the main sessions I am doing are the 5x100 hill, 4x200 and 3x300, but a 2x500 or 2x550 or something like that would be a nice addition to my training, and freshen things up a bit. I tend to train 4 days a week, but with competition back up and running again now, it tends to be 3 days training and 1 days competition per week, so on those weeks it may have to be a rotation between the 3x300 and the 2x500 sessions.

Some idea's for sessions just to break up the monotony:

http://www.momentumsports.co.uk/Tt400sSpeed.asp

I always find if you do the same session to regularly you are too focused on the splits that you get discouraged if you dont see improvement even if it is only a week or two since you have done the same session

Pisco Sour

ecoli wrote: »

Some idea's for sessions just to break up the monotony:

http://www.momentumsports.co.uk/Tt400sSpeed.asp

I always find if you do the same session to regularly you are too focused on the splits that you get discouraged if you dont see improvement even if it is only a week or two since you have done the same session

Good point. I've actually just moved yesterday however, out to Brunswick, so I am no longer situated right on the Tan, so there will be new running routes at my local park to freshen things up. If I cant find a good hill though I will be using the one on the Tan once a week. It's a great hill.

Pisco Sour

2x500m session this evening with 5 minute break between them. I was in a rush so didnt have time to go explore my local area so I just ran on a local Oval (Aussie rules/ Cricket pitch). I did a quick walk around it and it was around 400 metres and then I added on another 100m after. So a lap and a quarter of the oval, but not running on the extreme edges as the ground there was very uneven (I ran the same part that I measured out beforehand)

Times were:

1:41 - 1:41

I found it very tough, especially the 2nd rep but delighted to have recorded the same time in each.

Weekend off now to enjoy the tennis. Off to Melbourne Park tomorrow, and probably again on Sunday.

Pisco Sour

Back to my local Oval this evening for a 3x300m session with 4 minute breaks. I dont like this Oval. Not only is the grass hard, and uneven, but around the extreme edges of the Oval it is not safe to run on, so as a result I need to form an imaginary Oval within the Oval to run along. This isnt easy and I think on my first rep I ran more than 300m. Times were:

59(high) - 56(high) - 56(low)

I'm missing the Tan. This Oval is so uninspiring, while the Tan has lots of people getting out and about and active. I'll try to go to the Tan after work a couple of times a week but it's easier said than done. If there is a shower in work and I can access the building after 7pm, then it is definetely an option I will look into.

Great weekend at the tennis. Saw many great players such as (not bothered using google to get spellings right) Vena Zvonoreva, Gael Monfils, Richard Gasquet, Martina Hingis, Martina Navratolova, Iva Maijoli, Lleyton Hewitt, Juan Martin del Potro, Svetlana Kuznetsova, Caroline Wozniaki and Jelena Jankovic.

My personal favourite moment from the weekend was during the Wozniaki match. Caroline Wozniaki as many may know is currently dating one Rory McIlroy. During the 2nd set when Wozniaki was cruising at a set and 4-1 up and serving to go 5-1, a few lads (possibly Irish, possibly aussie) shouted out to the tune of Basement Jaxx "where's your head at"...

"Whereeeee's yourrrrr Rorrrr...rrrrry..Where's your Rory, where's your Rory"

Could be coincidence, but at that moment Wozniaki threw in a couple of double faults and she ended up strugling for the next 20 minutes, before eventually taking the set 7-5.

Funny stuff.

Pisco Sour

Tried a different session this evening on my lovely Oval!! Decided to just run the length of the Oval, which meant that at least I could be pretty certain of the distance I ran on each rep. Did 6x150m with 2 minute walk back breaks. Times were:

24(high) - 25(low) - 25(low) - 25(mid) - 25(high) - 25(mid)

Given that I have a 200m race on Saturday it was probably good to get some shorter reps in.

Haven't been quite as focused this week. Been a lot going on with regards moving to a new place. But I've now got 2 of my planned 3 sessions in for the week, so one more over the next 3 days and then I'll be ready to rock hopefully on Saturday.

Pisco Sour

2x500m session this early afternoon, this time on the foothpath that goes all the way around the Oval, so a far more accurate measurement. Did them probably at about 90% but towards the end felt like I was going a lot harder. 5 minute break between the two. Times were:

1:42(low) - 1:40(high)

The good news is that I felt a hell of a lot better doing them today than I did the last day. Encouraging.

Now it's off to the park to do some drinking and eating to celebrate Australia Day (a.k.a. an excuse for a session!).

Pisco Sour

Feck sake! Again we have another hot one in store for a meet involving an 800m. 3rd time in a row now. We all know about the last one last week, but before Christmas at our last AV Shield meet we had brutally hot weather and I ended up not doing the 800m after my 200m and just focusing on the triple jump after my 200m.

With 34 degrees tomorrow I could end up doing the same. Of course I could HTFU and just do it. All depends on the amount of rest I get after my 200m (main goal for tomorrow). The scheduling is a joke and usually I have to run an 800m 20-30 minutes after the 200m. It’s doable in normal conditions, but in 34 degrees it may not be.

Anyway hoping for a good run in the 200m tomorrow. Haven’t got a single tailwind all year so hoping tomorrow will change that and I can go under 27. I haven’t been close at all this year, with a PB of 27.5 hand timed into a ridiculous headwind, one of the worst I have ever encountered.