Handing over keys before deposit back

cruizer101

Looking for the opinion of some on here. I started renting a place last September, an owner occupied house me the only tenant, I said I would be renting until the following May.

For various reasons I decided to move out, and I found a place in December. The plan was to move in there and start paying rent from January til May.

So I gave notice to my Landlady, on Monday the 20th of December that I would be moving out in January, I said I'd pay her for the first week in January making it 3 weeks notice.

So came back earlier this week had all my stuff out on Wednesday, sent her a text letting her know this and asking her to let me know when she wanted to meet up to exchange keys and deposit, I was free whenever suited her.

She then asked me to drop them through letterbox, I said I can meet her whenever suits her, again she says can i drop them though she is not around this week and will sort out my deposit next week. I replied saying I'd give her the keys when I got my deposit and that ideally I'd like to get it sorted before the weekend.

She then said I should have given her a months notice and that I agreed to rent til may so I broke my verbal tenancy agreement. Said nothing about deposit, and asked for keys again.

So looking for advice, fair enough a month is the usual notice but surely 3 weeks is not an unreasonable amount of notice, opinions on this.

So where should I take it from here, I'm not giving the keys back til i get money anyway. But any advice on how I should approach this, was hoping for hassle free handover, expected her to have my deposit for me on wednesday and I'd of handed over keys, all done and dusted.

RedXIV

Don't know if this helps you much but I've never gotten a deposit back until after the landlord checked the place out which is almost always after i hand back the keys.

Never had one agree to just handover the deposit for the keys, doesn't make sense to?

JonJoeDali

You're doing the right thing by not giving back the keys until cash/cheque is in hand.

ztoical

As you were renting a room in an owner occupied house you fall under the rent a room scheme. This means you have a very little rights as you are not covered by landlord/tenant legislation in Ireland but in this case it also means the LL has very little rights with regard notice periods and the guidelines for the scheme simply state that you need to give 'reasonable notice'. It does not matter that you agreed to rent till May, there is no lease and while she could have asked to leave at any point you are also free to leave at any point. If there is an issue with the deposit you don't go through the PRTB but the small claims court.

OS119

RedXIV wrote: »

Don't know if this helps you much but I've never gotten a deposit back until after the landlord checked the place out which is almost always after i hand back the keys.

Never had one agree to just handover the deposit for the keys, doesn't make sense to?

its an owner /occupier houseshare with one tenant - given that the LL lives in the property with the OP, quite how difficult/time consuming/thorough do you think the handover needs to be? she needs to look in the room, confirm that all is ok and that his stuff is out, go through the bills to check there's nothing outstanding, say thanks very much and give the OP his deposit while pocketting the keys.

OP, in your position i think you are right to expect the deposit to be returned to you, in cash, when you hand over the keys.

do not accept a cheque when you hand over the keys - cheques bounce - you'll notice that few businesses accept payment by cheque, and almost none that do will give you goods/services of a value greater than the value of the cheque guarentee card until your payment has cleared.

RedXIV

OS119 wrote: »

its an owner /occupier houseshare with one tenant - given that the LL lives in the property with the OP, quite how difficult/time consuming/thorough do you think the handover needs to be? she needs to look in the room, confirm that all is ok and that his stuff is out, go through the bills to check there's nothing outstanding, say thanks very much and give the OP his deposit while pocketting the keys.

My bad, misread the first bit about it being owner occupied,

Sorry OP!

D3PO

itsd rent a room so you dont have to give s specific period of notice as already mentioned.

dont give the keys back until you get your deposit back. Also is the landlady actually living there aswell or claiming its "rent a room" for tax purposes.

If its the later then you have a serious advantage incase she trys to hold your deposit as shes evading tax. A threat to shop her to the revenue should sort the situation out quicksmart in that case

cruizer101

Thanks for the replies it kinda confirms what i thought, but nice to hear others say it. With regards to rent a room scheme, she is living there, although she doesn't even seem aware of that, as a while back when i was looking for proof of address for social welfare office, not rent allowance. She was worried about taxman coming after here. Good advice about the cheque, that is something I might have taken by mistake. Hopefully it will work out, at the end of day she is making what should be a simple situation into a complicated and awkward one. I'll keep at her anyway.

happymondays

RedXIV wrote: »

Don't know if this helps you much but I've never gotten a deposit back until after the landlord checked the place out which is almost always after i hand back the keys.

Never had one agree to just handover the deposit for the keys, doesn't make sense to?

had no problem doing this with the landlord in our last place.

its take 5 mins for them to walk around the house/apt and check everything is ok,
We show them the bills are paid up to date.
Swap keys/deposit and leave.
The whole thing takes less than 30 mins and If there's something amis
it can be brought up on the spot and resolved there and then.

the_syco

How much is she around? It sounds like this is not her primary residence, if she can't just check it out. She says to drop the keys through the letterbox? Of the house you are currently in, or another house? If another house, it's either not really rent-a-room, and thus you have more rights, or she's screwing Revenue, which is a card you may want to play.

delllat

the_syco wrote: »

How much is she around? It sounds like this is not her primary residence, if she can't just check it out. She says to drop the keys through the letterbox? Of the house you are currently in, or another house? If another house, it's either not really rent-a-room, and thus you have more rights, or she's screwing Revenue, which is a card you may want to play.

primary residence only means you stay 6+ months a year there ,the landlady is allowed to be away for any amount of weeks without penalty ,difficult for revenue to prove how many nights anyone sleeps anywhere without putting them under 24/7 surveilance for a year

cruizer101

Ah no it is her primary residence like, she was living there all the time I was the. She is just being awkward, and i think trying delay giving deposit back.

BostonB

Its just common sense to have the LL check the room in person, and hand over the deposit. Thats the way its meant to be done. Theres no reason not to do that. The fact she didn't mention the "verbal tenancy agreement" till pressed to return the deposit, makes it pretty clear (to me) she had intended to keep part if not all the deposit. I don't really don't understand the need to do that if you've been a good tenant and left the place in good nick.

cheesey1

BostonB wrote: »

The fact she didn't mention the "verbal tenancy agreement" till pressed to return the deposit, makes it pretty clear (to me) she had intended to keep part if not all the deposit. I don't really don't understand the need to do that if you've been a good tenant and left the place in good nick.

Can a landlord do this if they just rent a room out in their home - i.e. keep the deposit?

convert

cheesey1 wrote: »

Can a landlord do this if they just rent a room out in their home - i.e. keep the deposit?

If there is damage (above normal wear and tear) or the tenant is in arrears on their rent and bills, I assume the landlord would be entitled to keep all or part of the deposit in lieu of the monies owed?

I assume retaining the deposit for breach of contract would depend on the agreement that was in place between the landlord and tenant.

BostonB

cheesey1 wrote: »

Can a landlord do this if they just rent a room out in their home - i.e. keep the deposit?

What people (landlord or tenant) can legally do, and what they actually do, are not always the same thing.

cancercowboy

Okay, to clear things up... you are not a tenant. You are a "licensee".

If you rent a room in your landlord's home and live with your landlord, you are not covered by the Residential Tenancies Act 2004.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/types_of_tenancy.html

So, you have no rights. Full stop. Do you have any written agreement? If no, then you have nothing to hold her to. Do you have evidence that you paid a deposit, such as a receipt? Do you have anything from her acknowledging a deposit was given (emails, mobile phone txts?) Did you take pictures with a time and date stamp showing the room you moved out of was left in good condition?

You need to be civil and work things out with her, play the game her way. Whether you give back the keys or not is inconsequential. A locksmith costs about €100 to come out and change the locks. Not really expensive.

You'll have to work things out here or take her to small claims court and sue for your deposit if she refuses to return it. Long story short, when renting a room, always make sure you have a clear agreement and it is signed by you both, and that you have a copy of the agreement in a safe place. This way if you ever have to take your lanlord to small claims court you have something backing you up.

tomcollins97

I wouldn't put too much emphasis on keeping the keys. As it wont cost that much for ll to change one lock it is not much to be bargaining with. I recon that the ll is thinking the opposite of you that once the deposit is retured she may.not get her keys

cruizer101

I realise I'm not a tenant, and normal rules don't apply.

Sadly no, there was no written agreement between us. I do have receipts of rent paid into her bank account but deposit was paid in cash.
About the best evidence I have of it is a text she sent last week saying I will sort out your deposit next week.

I am trying to be as civil as possible, as I want to solve this as easily as possible without any agrivation, but the fact is she is making a simple situation complicated and awkward.
Her main issue seems to be I gave 3 weeks notice, when she thinks I should have given 4, and because of this is being a pain and won't even seem to meet with me to discuss things.

I'll admit the keys probably aren't the best security to have but its the best I have. And considering she only owes me in the region of 100-150 it would be easier to just pay me then get her locks changed.

cancercowboy

cruizer101 wrote: »

I realise I'm not a tenant, and normal rules don't apply.

Sadly no, there was no written agreement between us. I do have receipts of rent paid into her bank account but deposit was paid in cash.
About the best evidence I have of it is a text she sent last week saying I will sort out your deposit next week.

I am trying to be as civil as possible, as I want to solve this as easily as possible without any agrivation, but the fact is she is making a simple situation complicated and awkward.
Her main issue seems to be I gave 3 weeks notice, when she thinks I should have given 4, and because of this is being a pain and won't even seem to meet with me to discuss things.

I'll admit the keys probably aren't the best security to have but its the best I have. And considering she only owes me in the region of 100-150 it would be easier to just pay me then get her locks changed.

Right so, just give her the keys back. How much rent were you paying per month? If she wants 4 weeks notice then that's it I'd say. Game over... You could take her to small claims court, and maybe the threat of it would be enough to make her pay up because it's a headache to be honest.

I would say this to her. "I have left the keys as you have instructed. Could you please tell me when I should expect my deposit back? Here are my bank details. I am happy to collect the deposit in cash as well if this suits you. Cheers"

If she doesn't reply, with in 24 hours with a time you should expect your deposit returned, or gives out about the 4 weeks notice thing, then turn up the heat and threaten to take her to small claims court. It will mean a huge hassle for her and I believe you can file online.

Long story short you're gonna have to annoy her to the point that she'll gladly pay the €150 just to be rid of you. Increasingly turn up the heat. Emails, calls, txts, sure come back to the gaff and knock on the door. She won't want to be embarrassed in front of a new paying guest. Call her work... go to her work and say to the receptionist "I would like to speak with (insert landlord name here)" in a panicked voice. If asked the nature say it's "a personal thing". They'll go get her and you can have a seen right in the office. Nobody wants that, especially in these recessionary times.

LittleBook

cruizer101 wrote: »

I replied saying I'd give her the keys when I got my deposit and that ideally I'd like to get it sorted before the weekend.

She then said I should have given her a months notice and that I agreed to rent til may so I broke my verbal tenancy agreement. Said nothing about deposit, and asked for keys again.

cruizer101 wrote: »

I am trying to be as civil as possible, as I want to solve this as easily as possible without any agrivation, but the fact is she is making a simple situation complicated and awkward.

Her main issue seems to be I gave 3 weeks notice, when she thinks I should have given 4, and because of this is being a pain and won't even seem to meet with me to discuss things.

I'll admit the keys probably aren't the best security to have but its the best I have. And considering she only owes me in the region of 100-150 it would be easier to just pay me then get her locks changed.

Just a thought ... maybe she simply doesn't have the deposit to give back to you, most people are broke at this time of year. I know deposits should be put aside (even in a separate accounts sometimes) but in this kind of situation it's probably been spent.

So she's using the "4 weeks notice" thing to get you off her back until she has the deposit ...?