US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot (other persons killed or injured)

Nodin

CNN now saying she's "shot" as oppossed to dead as earlier. One would think the thing to do would be to go with the least final first....Anyhoo, theres a conference due at the hospital in a few minutes.

The Raven.

Wiki has changed the story again:

Gabrielle Giffords (born June 8, 1970 died January 8 2011)...

On January 8, 2011, she was shot while attending a public event in Tucson, Arizona. She is said to be in "critical" condition and in surgery.

Conflicting statements! The Wiki article should be locked altogether until the facts are established.

kaiser sauze

Pygmalion wrote: »

People have been speculating about whether or not it's related to the Tea Party (including myself admittedly, with the image I posted earlier).
He's offering another reasonable motive for the act.

We are indeed talking about someone been shot, but when it happens to someone in her position the motives of the act are also very important.

<Corrected>

troposphere

I used to think easy access to guns was the problem but I changed my opinion and think that the bigger problem is the attitude of some Americans that you should have a gun (and types and numbers of guns that go beyond self-defense/hunting/recreation) because it is your right and not because of any actual need to have a gun.

hotmail.com

US media have made a huge blunder today.

karma_

steelcityblues wrote: »

The gunman could be a registered Democrat for all you or I know! Stop being an utter partisan tool in a thread like this!

I highly doubt this will be a registered democrat, I doubt very much you believe that yourself.

mgmt

troposphere wrote: »

I used to think easy access to guns was the problem but I changed my opinion and think that the bigger problem is the attitude of some Americans that you should have a gun (and types and numbers of guns that go beyond self-defense/hunting/recreation) because it is your right and not because of any actual need to have a gun.

Well it is their 2nd amendment right to have a gun.

amacachi

Someone in the crowd shot back, the fact that the assailant is in custody rather than hospital doesn't make me full of hope that he got him.

cavedave

steelcityblues

The gunman could be a registered Democrat for all you or I know! Stop being an utter partisan tool in a thread like this!

Good point. It is far to early to point fingers yet.

I still think it is worth pointing out that many have warned that anti government rhetoric could be dangerous
Bill Clinton wrote in the new york times about the lessons of the Oklahoma City bombing

Civic virtue can include harsh criticism, protest, even civil disobedience. But not violence or its advocacy, ... In the current climate, with so many threats against the president, members of Congress and other public servants, we owe it to the victims of Oklahoma City, and those who survived and responded so bravely, not to cross it again.

But like you pointed out it is far to early for this case to be used as evidence.

The Raven.

The Wiki page is now changed again and 'protected from editing because there is significant confusion as to whether Gabrielle Giffords has died or not. "Reliable" sources have reported that she has died but have generally now retracted those statements. Wikipedia editors are closely following the developing news story and will update this page as information becomes available..'

steelcityblues

karma_ wrote: »

I highly doubt this will be a registered democrat, I doubt very much you believe that yourself.

A lot of gun owning Democrats in the Southern states, but I don't think it is particularly relevant in the scheme of things anyway, whereas you seem to do.

amacachi

AZ senator is saying that they're hopeful she'll make it through though she was shot through-and-through the temples.

troposphere

mgmt wrote: »

Well it is their 2nd amendment right to have a gun.

I am well aware of that. I have the right to stand outside a funeral of a dead military member and hold up a sign saying he died because of homosexuals but just because you have the right does not mean you are required to use it which was the point of my original comment.

Pygmalion

kaiser sauze wrote: »

She is now confirmed dead?

Sorry no, edited my post.
There were reports of her death earlier but they were wrong apparently.

kaiser sauze

white1awake wrote: »

Exactly.

Kaizer appears to be a bit slow, poor fella.

Is the person arrested a Mexican?

amacachi

kaiser sauze wrote: »

It's barely noted that she is a Democrat either.

People would be giving out if they went on about her being a democrat and that it was somehow trivialising it.

According to one of the AZ senators she was shot through the temple but is now responding to commands. One of her staff is apparently in far worse shape then she is.

wes

A terrible act of what seems like political violence, this may be the case of someone using terrorism to express there politics.

kaiser sauze

A judge has now been confirmed dead.

http://judgepedia.org/index.php/John_Roll

Stheno

They've named the gunman as a chap called Jared Laughner.

Six people apparently are confirmed dead.:(

One of the injured is a child

white1awake

How do we know who was arrested?
Do YOU know who was arrested?


Try and focus before you ask silly questions.

People right off the bat started pointing the finger at both Sarah Palin and the Tea Party, naming in particular 'right wingers'. But when one looks at Gifford's positions on many hot-button issues, we find she leaned way to the right really, being in favour of prosecuting illegals who dig tunnels into the US, being pro-life (hey--just like Sarah Palin!), and being pro-gun rights.


Anyways: I am praying for all the victims, and especially for Gifford's family. Her husand, astronaut Mark Kelly, is serving in the Military overseas I think. He must be in bits

kaiser sauze

white1awake wrote: »

Exactly.

Kaizer appears to be a bit slow, poor fella.

22 year old white male.

Yeah, I'm slow.

Ludo

kaiser sauze wrote: »

A judge has now been confirmed dead.

http://judgepedia.org/index.php/John_Roll

And that has now also been retracted by fox. do they check ANYTHING before saying it anymore?

kaiser sauze

white1awake wrote: »

blah blah blah blah you suck at the internetz blah blah blah

See above, but also see this.

kaiser sauze

Ludo wrote: »

And that has now also been retracted by fox. do they check ANYTHING before saying it anymore?

Lol, I see that now; it would appear not!

Glad to hear he is OK.

amacachi

sligopark wrote: »

something of which is needed right now here in Ireland

Nah.

white1awake

blah blah blah blah you suck at the internetz blah blah b

Wow, this may be the most compelling comment I have yet seen from you yet Kaizer.

Now, let's wait and see who young Jared is a fan of.......

Eliot Rosewater

sligopark wrote: »

something of which is needed right now here in Ireland

Political violence is unacceptable in a mature democracy like America or Ireland. If you have grievances contact your representatives and/or express those grievances the ballot box. There is simply no excuse for turning back the clock and using weapons as a means of political expression. If we allow that then our society becomes rule of the strongest (read: person with the most guns.)

white1awake

Some good news, Doctor is optimistic that she (Giffords) will recover, although not too sure what that will look like exactly.

troposphere

doctor just said one of the dead 9 year old child. The congresswomen is out of surgery and the doctor is "optimistic"

kaiser sauze

white1awake wrote: »

Wow, this may be the most compelling comment I have yet seen from you yet Kaizer.

Now, let's wait and see who young Jared is a fan of.......

Get over to the Palin thread and answer my question.

Sand

People right off the bat started pointing the finger at both Sarah Palin and the Tea Party, naming in particular 'right wingers'. But when one looks at Gifford's positions on many hot-button issues, we find she leaned way to the right really, being in favour of prosecuting illegals who dig tunnels into the US, being pro-life (hey--just like Sarah Palin!), and being pro-gun rights.

I think people are a tad disturbed by the hysteria whipped up by media and political celebrities for political ends, on both the right and the left. The gunman may have been a victim of a hysteria which doesnt look at the finer details but simply calls for their political opponents to be targeted and demonised. Maybe if he had a chance to sit down and talk through the issues with Gifford, hed have reached the same conclusion as yourself that Giffords politics were more considered than her enemies might have believed.

Sarah Palin will probably be embarrassed by the hitlist which includes Griffords name. Its probably clear Sarah Palin wasnt literally calling for someone to go out there and murder those on the list - ironically, Palin is also targeted herself by a hate campaign. But she was happy to trade on the militant and aggressive tones, the targeting of individual political figures as enemies rather than discussing issues.

Hopefully the aggressive hysteria will be toned down by responsible groups and politicians who recognise that even if they dont intend for someone to go out there and murder their political opponents, some fringe lunatics might be easily influenced. Palin will get a lot of stick about this, deserved too, but it sounds like a broader issue.

Of course, the gunmans target might not have been Gifford at all - it might have been any one of the other individuals there. Or the reasons might be totally personal.

amacachi

kaiser sauze wrote: »

A judge has now been confirmed dead.

http://judgepedia.org/index.php/John_Roll

Sand wrote: »

Of course, the gunmans target might not have been Gifford at all - it might have been any one of the other individuals there. Or the reasons might be totally personal.

I dunno, close range through-and-through to the temple, sounds like she was targetted.

kaiser sauze

http://www.takebackthe20.com/ is now not loading.

Judge John Roll is now stated deceased again, along with a nine year old boy.

Ludo

kaiser sauze wrote: »

Lol, I see that now; it would appear not!

Glad to hear he is OK.

And now they are confirming the judges death again. I guess he is as they wouldn't make the same mistake twice (or is it three times now) in the one hour surely.

amacachi

Another arrested.

Sand

I dunno, close range through-and-through to the temple, sounds like she was targetted.

I wouldnt trust much of the early reporting to be honest. Several of the victims have died and risen again already.

It quite likely she was the target, but the Judge with her was under protection as a potential target of attack not too long ago. Right now, we barely know anything at all about the incident, the status of the victims, the attacker or his motives.

Lets wait and see with an open mind for now.

amacachi

Sand wrote: »

I wouldnt trust much of the early reporting to be honest. Several of the victims have died and risen again already.

It quite likely she was the target, but the Judge with her was under protection as a potential target of attack not too long ago. Right now, we barely know anything at all about the incident, the status of the victims, the attacker or his motives.

Lets wait and see with an open mind for now.

Watching Fox? I'll go with what the surgeon said in the press conference thanks very much.

Anonymous1987

This is a tragedy, the political motivation of the gunman is redundant in my opinion, he is clearly mentally unstable.

amacachi

Just checked out a youtube video from him, he was quite odd to say the least.

Sand

BBC News actually.

Im just noting that we actually know very little about the event yet. Remember the initial reporting of the shooting of the Brazillian plumber in the London Underground a few years ago? The early view was the UK police had narrowly adverted a devastating suicide bombing. As it turned out, an innocent and frightened man was the victim of police incompetence and mass panic.

No harm witholding judgement until we know what happened.

white1awake

Get over to the Palin thread and answer my question.

lol, why don't you hold your breath while you wait?

amacachi

Sand wrote: »

BBC News actually.

Im just noting that we actually know very little about the event yet. Remember the initial reporting of the shooting of the Brazillian plumber in the London Underground a few years ago? The early view was the UK police had narrowly adverted a devastating suicide bombing.

No harm witholding judgement until we know what happened.

So maybe the surgeon is actually a plumber? :pac:

I know what you mean but I think it's one of the safer assumptions to make.

Checked out his youtoob videos, odd guy to say the least.

kaiser sauze

Sarah Palin 'target picture', posted here early in thread, is no longer on her website.

Anonymous1987

sligopark wrote: »

Why shouldn't there be more forceful expression when the likes of which has occurred in Ireland?

Because mob rule will not get the country on the road to recovery. Consider the events in Greece where three people were killed, what good did it do the country? Regardless we have a general election on the way.

white1awake

http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10


His youtube vids.

Stheno

kaiser sauze wrote: »

Sarah Palin 'target picture', posted here early in thread, is no longer on her website.

Not surprising is it?

A nine year old child has been confirmed dead

kaiser sauze

white1awake wrote: »

lol, why don't you hold your breath while you wait?

You'd love that, it would avoid the "crosshairs" I have on you over in that thread.

Anyway, have you read that nutjobs profile? It has nothing to do with your spurious distraction link from earlier

---

On a side note, it is amazing how an almost new account sprouts up to try and deflect us from calling this for what it is.

kaiser sauze

white1awake wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10


His youtube vids.

His only favourited video.

mgmt

amacachi wrote: »

Just checked out a youtube video from him, he was quite odd to say the least.

Link?

amacachi

mgmt wrote: »

Link?

http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10 Strangely the account without the 10 on the end is an Irish account. His myspace has been taken down but Fox said his last update was "Goodbye friends." Shows just how out of touch with reality he is that he's still using myspace.


Fox really shouldn't be showing his videos.