Starting with hypnosis

Aranthos Faroth

Ok,
So .. I was watching Darren Brown.
Yup.
There you go, you know know my motive behind wanting to learn this.
However, after trundling through one hell of alot of sites claiming to teach you how to hypnotise someone, I came to a conclusion.

I was way out of my depth.
Not only had I no idea what hypnosis actually was. Be it a form of psychology (as it works with the mind) or a type of illusionist trade.

I also realised something else.
There are alot of odd people out there.
9 out of 10 links that I saw on the internet about hypnosis had some sort of relation to learning how to seduce women without even talking to them, in less than 5 mins.

That is not the reason why I want to look into this.
I don't want to be like Darren Brown, the big stage show artist.. infact I work in I.T and don't plan to leave anytime soon for my big starry show in vegas.

I just want to understand it, from the ground up.

Finally I reach my question:
Does anyone know how I might go about learning hypnosis?
From the very basics. Very basics.
To the intermediate, and maybe in future beyond.

Sorry if this is in the wrong thread (Mostly sorry myself as the 'right' people won't be reading it)

Odysseus

Aranthos Faroth wrote: »

Ok,
So .. I was watching Darren Brown.
Yup.
There you go, you know know my motive behind wanting to learn this.
However, after trundling through one hell of alot of sites claiming to teach you how to hypnotise someone, I came to a conclusion.

I was way out of my depth.
Not only had I no idea what hypnosis actually was. Be it a form of psychology (as it works with the mind) or a type of illusionist trade.

I also realised something else.
There are alot of odd people out there.
9 out of 10 links that I saw on the internet about hypnosis had some sort of relation to learning how to seduce women without even talking to them, in less than 5 mins.

That is not the reason why I want to look into this.
I don't want to be like Darren Brown, the big stage show artist.. infact I work in I.T and don't plan to leave anytime soon for my big starry show in vegas.

I just want to understand it, from the ground up.

Finally I reach my question:
Does anyone know how I might go about learning hypnosis?
From the very basics. Very basics.
To the intermediate, and maybe in future beyond.

Sorry if this is in the wrong thread (Mostly sorry myself as the 'right' people won't be reading it)

Hi mate, if you do a search of the forum there are loads of thread om hypnotherapy training, so you could start there.

crotalus667

Op pop orver the magic board (under arts) its not magic but it goes hand in hand , the main hypnothearpy schools in ireland are not really worth the money (about 3 grand a pop) your better off spending the money on books far cgeaper abd you will learn far more

Odysseus

crotalus667 wrote: »

Op pop orver the magic board (under arts) its not magic but it goes hand in hand , the main hypnothearpy schools in ireland are not really worth the money (about 3 grand a pop) your better off spending the money on books far cgeaper abd you will learn far more

Can I ask your experience and training around hypnotherapy? It's not a trying to catch you out, I don't rate it as a therapy, but think it may have other uses, which you seem to br implying; could you expand on it a bit please?

Namle

crotalus667 wrote: »

Op pop orver the magic board (under arts) its not magic but it goes hand in hand , the main hypnothearpy schools in ireland are not really worth the money (about 3 grand a pop) your better off spending the money on books far cgeaper abd you will learn far more

And this is why the sooner legislation is put in place the better. Advising people to get a few books and then claim they are hypnotherapists is totally irresponsible. Maybe they can learn to be a hypnotist but there is a world of a difference.

Aranthos Faroth

Namle wrote: »

And this is why the sooner legislation is put in place the better. Advising people to get a few books and then claim they are hypnotherapists is totally irresponsible. Maybe they can learn to be a hypnotist but there is a world of a difference.

It sounds like you know it mate.
Can I ask, where/how did you study it?

Odysseus

Namle wrote: »

And this is why the sooner legislation is put in place the better. Advising people to get a few books and then claim they are hypnotherapists is totally irresponsible. Maybe they can learn to be a hypnotist but there is a world of a difference.

I really don't think that poster was suggesting what that his post was about about practicing as a hypotherapist, as I'm not even sure that is what the op is looking for.

OP do the search I recommended there is one regular poster here who is very knowledgable about the training courses in Ireland, and he has posted a lot on here about it.

hotspur

The 2 main trainers of hypnosis and hypnotherapy in Ireland are:
http://www.hypnosisacademy.ie/ http://www.hypnotherapytraining.ie/ (same trainer) and
http://www.hypnosiseire.com/

Choosing an appropriate training from either of those will teach you what you wish to know about hypnosis. As for the beginner, intermediate, and beyond from a pure hypnosis perspective there really isn't much in the way of intermediate and beyond - hypnosis is a simple thing.

If you explicitly wish to train in the entertainment, magic, showman kind of hypnosis tricks then magicians often train with Anthony Jacjuin in Britain. I think he comes here from time to time, but people travel for this 2 day training to Britain. I know one magician who also does hypnosis and he was very impressed with his training from Jacquin. Also Jacquin's book Reality is Plastic is said to be good for the kind of hypnosis you are talking about. Here is his site:
http://www.anthonyjacquin.com/training.html

Namle

Aranthos Faroth wrote: »

It sounds like you know it mate.
Can I ask, where/how did you study it?

I'd rather not mention a specific name but Hotspur has covered it in his post. I would also say that I am intelligent enough to know I am not a psychotherapist but experienced enough to know that there is far more than the placebo effect on offer during hypnotherapy.

Odysseus, I have been a long, long time lurker on this forum and have avoided being drawn into any of the discussions regarding hypnosis. In this case however I feel very strongly that advising someone to learn hypnosis from a book is poor advice. It may only happen rarely but in hypnosis the subject may go into spontaneous regression or relive an old trauma. If this happens the hypnotist should be trained to handle such events. Someone posted here recently that they had to undo severe damage done to an individual who had a traumatic experience in hypnosis that was not dealt with properly.

As Hotspur has said, hypnosis is easy. I can teach anyone the basics of hypnosis in 20 minutes. Therapy on the other hand, well that's a different story.

Odysseus

Namle wrote: »

I'd rather not mention a specific name but Hotspur has covered it in his post. I would also say that I am intelligent enough to know I am not a psychotherapist but experienced enough to know that there is far more than the placebo effect on offer during hypnotherapy.

Odysseus, I have been a long, long time lurker on this forum and have avoided being drawn into any of the discussions regarding hypnosis. In this case however I feel very strongly that advising someone to learn hypnosis from a book is poor advice. It may only happen rarely but in hypnosis the subject may go into spontaneous regression or relive an old trauma. If this happens the hypnotist should be trained to handle such events. Someone posted here recently that they had to undo severe damage done to an individual who had a traumatic experience in hypnosis that was not dealt with properly.

As Hotspur has said, hypnosis is easy. I can teach anyone the basics of hypnosis in 20 minutes. Therapy on the other hand, well that's a different story.

I fully agree and respect you wish not to get into a discusion about it, but my reading of the OP's post was that it was not for therapeutic reasons that he was interested in it. My own view on it as a therapy is well know here.

crotalus667

Odysseus wrote: »

Can I ask your experience and training around hypnotherapy?

I trained for thearpy and stage with a number of people over the past ten or so years including the man thought Paul McKenna,

Namle wrote: »

And this is why the sooner legislation is put in place the better. Advising people to get a few books and then claim they are hypnotherapists is totally irresponsible. Maybe they can learn to be a hypnotist but there is a world of a difference.

I did no such thing

The OP said
"That is not the reason why I want to look into this.
I don't want to be like Darren Brown, the big stage show artist.. infact I work in I.T and don't plan to leave anytime soon for my big starry show in vegas.
I just want to understand it, from the ground up."

Spending 3 grand on a course that IMO is not worth the money when you dont intened to use it is poor advise,

I have seen the content of many courses that are praised in the industry and most of them can be surpassed by reading some of the classics, if you understood hypnosis you would know the futility of legislating against it

FTR
I have found the majority of stage courses show a greater understanding of hypnosis the therapy courses

Namle

crotalus667 wrote: »

if you understood hypnosis you would know the futility of legislating against it

I totally agree, however some people in Brussels who have decided that bananas should be straight are also looking into legislating the use of hypnosis.

Just to explain my position; I have a personal distase for stage hypnosis since i was a psychology student in the 80's. A performer came to UCD and finished his show by leaving the stage and his subjects in trance. One of the subjects became aggressive and violent. I just found the "entertainer" to be very irresponsible.

As I also posted elswhere, my other concern is spontaneous regression. WHile it is rare it is a real occurrence. It is not restricted to therapy, it can happen during any hypnotic trance, which includes on stage or even a simple relaxation exercise. I honestly believe that anyone facilitating a hypnotic induction should be equipped to handle such an event if it happens. Otherwise the subject could be left at best highly emotional or at worst traumatised. I hope this explains some of my concerns about just teaching inductions without stressing the responsibility that goes with it.

Odysseus

Namle wrote: »

I totally agree, however some people in Brussels who have decided that bananas should be straight are also looking into legislating the use of hypnosis.

Just to explain my position; I have a personal distase for stage hypnosis since i was a psychology student in the 80's. A performer came to UCD and finished his show by leaving the stage and his subjects in trance. One of the subjects became aggressive and violent. I just found the "entertainer" to be very irresponsible.

As I also posted elswhere, my other concern is spontaneous regression. WHile it is rare it is a real occurrence. It is not restricted to therapy, it can happen during any hypnotic trance, which includes on stage or even a simple relaxation exercise. I honestly believe that anyone facilitating a hypnotic induction should be equipped to handle such an event if it happens. Otherwise the subject could be left at best highly emotional or at worst traumatised. I hope this explains some of my concerns about just teaching inductions without stressing the responsibility that goes with it.

Well it does for me in anyway, but I think most people here have issues about people calling themselves therapists after such short training.

I would just never allow anybody access to the potential damage that can occur, it would be the same with that Holotropic breathwork I have worked with a few people who had bad experiences with that; and I think the training is just as short as well.

Like anything else playing therapist is all well and good until something goes wrong, and the psyche can be badly damaged by someone who is inexperienced, I know we all had to start somewhere, and my knowledge base is completely different to when I started to see clients, but that's where supervision comes in. But I'm going off topic now so I'll shut up. However, thanks for your input on the thread.

lighthouse

Odysseus wrote: »

I would just never allow anybody access to the potential damage that can occur, it would be the same with that Holotropic breathwork I have worked with a few people who had bad experiences with that; and I think the training is just as short as well.

I know this is off topic but I have plenty of experience of holotropic breathwork. By it's very nature as a regression therapy a person is likely to get in touch with very strong feelings which can go back to traumatic events in early childhood. Problems may occur if these emotions aren't fully dealt with in the holotropic session or in the subsequent weeks.
I'm interested in what you mean by bad experiences. Therapy can often make existing problems worse especially in the early stages as the wound behind the problems a person is experiencing is opened up. Because holotropic breathwork is a more powerful method of allowing a person get in touch with their repressed feelings this can amplify things that may be happening in "regular" psychotherapy.
I owe my life to holotropic breathwork and Prof. Ivor Browne who first introduced me to it in St. Brendan's Hospital in Grangegorman in the mid 90's.
Regarding training, this is very rigorous. While I have not undergone any of the training sessions myself I have a good idea of what is involved from talking to people who have undergone it.
People wishing to train as holotropic breathwork facilitators must do 7 week long training sessions which include them undergoing 2 holotropic breathwork sessions during the week. They must also do a number of breathwork sessions outside of this. As far as I know you cannot get certified as a breathwork facilitator in under 2 years. Prospective facilitators must also attend holotropic sessions with certified facilitators. At the end of all of this there is no guarantee you will be certified as you are assessed by the course facilitators. This is as much of what I know about the Stan. Grof holotropic training. Once certified you can facilitate at holotropic breathwork sessions and use the Holotropic Breathwork TM words to describe what you are doing. Stan. Grof who developed this technique trademarked the words Holotropic Breathwork. There are people who do various forms of breathwork with clients but unless they use the words Holotropic Breathwork in what they do they are not certified Grof. facilitators.

JuliusCaesar

And the evidence base for Holotropic Breathwork is..............??

Rigorous scientific studies only, please.

lighthouse

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

And the evidence base for Holotropic Breathwork is..............??

Rigorous scientific studies only, please.

One cannot judge something of this nature simply by scientific studies. I have benefitted enourmously from it and it is not my desire to convert anyone to it's effectiveness. I am simply giving my own personal experience of it, which often is of more interest to people than what you refer to as "rigorous scientific studies"

JuliusCaesar

But, Lighthouse, ..........this is the Psychology Forum and it's under Science for a reason. Anecdotal evidence is just that. I love opera. But I can't extrapolate from that that everyone gets great enjoyment from opera.

If we are to try to help patients/service users, we need to have a pretty good idea of how to do this and who will benefit, rather than just believing that we can help.

Waking-Dreams

lighthouse wrote: »

One cannot judge something of this nature simply by scientific studies.

Hmmm, I have a question.

Why is it that this line of defence is often always sounded off in response to criticism, like some kind of mantra, when it comes to alternate therapies like this or, homeopathy or healing crystals for that matter.

I very much doubt that if there was scientific evidence which supported it you would still insist that it cannot be judged by scientific studies.

“It worked for me.” All well and good. Somebody can also attribute their not getting to flu to having taken Echinacea, but I’ve never taken it and only had the flu twice in my life. So just how effective are these remedies?

Illusory causation comes to mind.

JuliusCaesar

Waking-Dreams wrote: »

Illusory causation comes to mind.

Indeed. Post hoc non ergo propter hoc, as we scientists are fond of saying.

MinnyMinor

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

And the evidence base for Holotropic Breathwork is..............??

Rigorous scientific studies only, please.

if you want Rigorous scientific studies only stay away from psychoanalysis

MinnyMinor

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Indeed. Post hoc non ergo propter hoc, as we scientists are fond of saying.

or Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy as per freud and co

lighthouse

MinnyMinor wrote: »

if you want Rigorous scientific studies only stay away from psychoanalysis

Sounds like you had a bad experience with it?

MinnyMinor

lighthouse wrote: »

Sounds like you had a bad experience with it?

no but thereiso scientific proof about it. repression cannot be proved or investigated. dreams interpretation is just making up as going along, nothing scientific or provable

lighthouse

MinnyMinor wrote: »

no but thereiso scientific proof about it. repression cannot be proved or investigated. dreams interpretation is just making up as going along, nothing scientific or provable

I have already posted above about my positive experiences with holotropic breathwork and some posters replied saying they wanted scientific proof. I didn't reply because I was simply giving my own personal experiences.
However I take issue with some of your comments regarding psychoanalysis. I underwent psychoanalytic psychotherapy for about a year and a half in the early stages of my recovery before I moved to more experiencial forms of psychotherapy such as holotropic breathwork.
I don't really care whether repression cannot be proved or investigated. I have seen in my own life the "damage" to my personality by repression and the healing that has taken place in bringing all these repressed emotions, memories to the surface by experiencial forms of psychotherapy and holotropic breathwork.
Regarding your analysis (if you pardon the pun) of dream interpretation, that is a very negative view of it. Speaking of personal experience again I have seen the significance of dreams in psychotherapy and would have to disagree with your negative comments. After all didn't Freud refer to dreams as the royal road to the unconscious. Or do you even believe in an unconscious as I suppose this is not "scientific or provable" also!

MinnyMinor

lighthouse wrote: »

I have already posted above about my positive experiences with holotropic breathwork and some posters replied saying they wanted scientific proof. I didn't reply because I was simply giving my own personal experiences.
However I take issue with some of your comments regarding psychoanalysis. I underwent psychoanalytic psychotherapy for about a year and a half in the early stages of my recovery before I moved to more experiencial forms of psychotherapy such as holotropic breathwork.
I don't really care whether repression cannot be proved or investigated. I have seen in my own life the "damage" to my personality by repression and the healing that has taken place in bringing all these repressed emotions, memories to the surface by experiencial forms of psychotherapy and holotropic breathwork.
Regarding your analysis (if you pardon the pun) of dream interpretation, that is a very negative view of it. Speaking of personal experience again I have seen the significance of dreams in psychotherapy and would have to disagree with your negative comments. After all didn't Freud refer to dreams as the royal road to the unconscious. Or do you even believe in an unconscious as I suppose this is not "scientific or provable" also!

my pointvwa sthere is nothing scientific about it. if you believe it helped you good for you bjt that is a subjective view.Also your view of dreams is subjective, Frued and is work is largely debunked http://www.skepdic.com/psychoan.html see also why freud was wrong

lighthouse

MinnyMinor wrote: »

my pointvwa sthere is nothing scientific about it. if you believe it helped you good for you bjt that is a subjective view.Also your view of dreams is subjective, Frued and is work is largely debunked http://www.skepdic.com/psychoan.html see also why freud was wrong

And those articles you link to aren't subjective I suppose?

MinnyMinor

lighthouse wrote: »

And those articles you link to aren't subjective I suppose?

webster has researched freud. read his book. if you have scientific proof of repression/dream analysis or other freud tedchnique please post. in order to test repression you would have to in some way abuse or hurt a child and then see if they remember it when they grow up

Pebbles68

MinnyMinor wrote: »

in order to test repression you would have to in some way abuse or hurt a child and then see if they remember it when they grow up

Surely by that rationale, using scientific principals, the concept has not been disproven either. So a scientist would have to consider repression as a hypothesis that can neither be proven nor disproven?

lighthouse

Pebbles68 wrote: »

Surely by that rationale, using scientific principals, the concept has not been disproven either. So a scientist would have to consider repression as a hypothesis that can neither be proven nor disproven?

At last someone who is at least open to some of these concepts

MinnyMinor

Pebbles68 wrote: »

Surely by that rationale, using scientific principals, the concept has not been disproven either. So a scientist would have to consider repression as a hypothesis that can neither be proven nor disproven?

that is why psychoanalysis is considerd a psuedo science

lighthouse

MinnyMinor wrote: »

that is why psychoanalysis is considerd a psuedo science

Yea and people once believed the earth was flat