Backslider?

Tim Robbins

Hi,
Just wondering does your Church use the term 'backslider' or what you know about the term?
Thanks

ubertrad

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Hi,
Just wondering does your Church use the term 'backslider' or what you know about the term?
Thanks

Lapsed Catholic?

However, we should be aware that if we are not progressing in the spiritual or interior life, then we are not really stagnating, but backsliding.

Backsliding into our former ways, like a dog returning to its vomit! And once we return to the vomit, we're likely to have a harder time returning to the Lord. As Jesus said, the demon departs from the house, goes and finds fellow demons, returns to the house, and the infestation is even worse than the first time, and much harder to deal with.

Tim Robbins

ubertrad wrote: »

Lapsed Catholic?

However, we should be aware that if we are not progressing in the spiritual or interior life, then we are not really stagnating, but backsliding.

Backsliding into our former ways, like a dog returning to its vomit! And once we return to the vomit, we're likely to have a harder time returning to the Lord. As Jesus said, the demon departs from the house, goes and finds fellow demons, returns to the house, and the infestation is even worse than the first time, and much harder to deal with.

Which denominations use it?
Which translations of scripture have it?

ubertrad

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Which denominations use it?
Which translations of scripture have it?

The term does not appear in the Scriptures.

I think mostly Evangelicals use the term. I do not hear it in Catholic circles. Maybe we should use it in Catholic circles. It might do some good.

wolfsbane

ubertrad wrote: »

The term does not appear in the Scriptures.

I think mostly Evangelicals use the term. I do not hear it in Catholic circles. Maybe we should use it in Catholic circles. It might do some good.

The first lot I looked at:
English Standard Version (ESV)
Proverbs 14:14 The backslider in heart will be filled with the fruit of his ways,and a good man will be filled with the fruit of his ways.

New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Proverbs 14:14 The backslider in heart will have his fill of his own ways,But a good man will be satisfied with his.

(New King James Version)
Proverbs 14:14 The backslider in heart will be filled with his own ways,
But a good man will be satisfied from above.

(King James Version)
Proverbs 14:14The backslider in heart shall be filled with his own ways: and a good man shall be satisfied from himself.

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
Proverbs 14:14 From his ways is the backslider in heart filled, And a good man -- from his fruits.

Micah 2:4 In that day doth [one] take up for you a simile, And he hath wailed a wailing of wo, He hath said, We have been utterly spoiled, The portion of my people He doth change, How doth He move toward me! To the backslider our fields He apportioneth.

The use in Evangelical churches refers to real Christians who stray from the path for a time. Not to unbelievers.

As far as I can see, the Biblical use may not restrict it to real believers, but could also embrace false believers (those who profess Christianity without true commitment). See the term 'backslider' in, for example, the NKJV:
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=backsliding&version1=50&searchtype=all

_________________________________________________________________
Jeremiah 14:7 O LORD, though our iniquities testify against us, Do it for Your name’s sake; For our backslidings are many, We have sinned against You.

ubertrad

wolfsbane wrote: »

The first lot I looked at:
English Standard Version (ESV)
Proverbs 14:14 The backslider in heart will be filled with the fruit of his ways,and a good man will be filled with the fruit of his ways.

New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Proverbs 14:14 The backslider in heart will have his fill of his own ways,But a good man will be satisfied with his.

(New King James Version)
Proverbs 14:14 The backslider in heart will be filled with his own ways,
But a good man will be satisfied from above.

(King James Version)
Proverbs 14:14The backslider in heart shall be filled with his own ways: and a good man shall be satisfied from himself.

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
Proverbs 14:14 From his ways is the backslider in heart filled, And a good man -- from his fruits.

Micah 2:4 In that day doth [one] take up for you a simile, And he hath wailed a wailing of wo, He hath said, We have been utterly spoiled, The portion of my people He doth change, How doth He move toward me! To the backslider our fields He apportioneth.

The use in Evangelical churches refers to real Christians who stray from the path for a time. Not to unbelievers.

As far as I can see, the Biblical use may not restrict it to real believers, but could also embrace false believers (those who profess Christianity without true commitment). See the term 'backslider' in, for example, the NKJV:
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=backsliding&version1=50&searchtype=all

_________________________________________________________________
Jeremiah 14:7 O LORD, though our iniquities testify against us, Do it for Your name’s sake; For our backslidings are many, We have sinned against You.

The term doesn't seem to appear in Catholic Bible translations. I checked the Douay Rheims, New Jerusalem Bible, and the New American Bible. The term is translated as scoundrel, miscreant, and fool, whilst the RSV says perverse man in the verse from Proverbs.

Even though our crimes bear witness against us, take action, O LORD, for the honor of your name-- Even though our rebellions are many, though we have sinned against you.
- Jer. 14:7 NAB

If our iniquities have testified against us, O Lord, do thou it for thy name's sake, for our rebellions are many, we have sinned against thee.
- Jer:14:7 DRB

There are differences too between Catholic and non-Catholic theologies concerning the use or non-use of this term. The term backslider appears to be connected to the doctrine of OSAS and has been used in Protestant translations of the Bible, presumably to support this doctrine.

In Catholic teaching, if you fall out of grace and into mortal sin, you may return to God through repentance and sacramental confession. If you die in mortal sin, you are lost. There is a both/and element here. Accordingly, whilst you may repent and be sincerely and perfectly contrite and thus forgiven by God, sacramental confession is certainly required for your return to the Church formally and before you can receive Holy Communion. It also assures and guarantees that one is actually forgiven, for in the sacrament, even fear of punishment alone is sufficient for absolution. This is imperfect contrition.

Fanny Cradock

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Which denominations use it?
Which translations of scripture have it?

I believe the concept of "backsliding" would be familiar to any denomination who accepts freedom of will for the individual. (I'm unsure what Calvinists would have to say on the issue.) Within Protestant traditions, this would be any denomination that subscribes to Arminianism. I would be surprised if other denominations - Pentecostalism , Evangelicalism, RCism etc didn't share some common notion of "backsliding". It seems to me that it would be difficult to read the parable of the sower with some notion of backsliding.

This said, I wasn't aware that the word had a very specific theological grounding - as opposed to a term to describe anybody who lets their goals (whatever they are) fall by the wayside - and I can't say that I've ever encountered it in any service.

Tim Robbins

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I believe the concept of "backsliding" would be familiar to any denomination who accepts freedom of will for the individual. (I'm unsure what Calvinists would have to say on the issue.) Within Protestant traditions, this would be any denomination that subscribes to Arminianism. I would be surprised if other denominations - Pentecostalism , Evangelicalism, RCism etc didn't share some common notion of "backsliding". It seems to me that it would be difficult to read the parable of the sower with some notion of backsliding.

This said, I wasn't aware that the word had a very specific theological grounding - as opposed to a term to describe anybody who lets their goals (whatever they are) fall by the wayside - and I can't say that I've ever encountered it in any service.

Here's a Free Prebyterian Sermon about Backsliders...
Have to say I enjoyed this!

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=97081628306

wolfsbane

ubertrad said:

There are differences too between Catholic and non-Catholic theologies concerning the use or non-use of this term. The term backslider appears to be connected to the doctrine of OSAS and has been used in Protestant translations of the Bible, presumably to support this doctrine.

No, its use in Protestant translations has no theological connotation, pro or anti OSAS. As my post pointed out, it can cover both the genuine believer who falls into sin or mere professors of the faith who depart from it. Most use among Christians is of the former - the backslider being distinguished from the apostate.
___________________________________________________________________
Jeremiah 14:7 O LORD, though our iniquities testify against us, Do it for Your name’s sake; For our backslidings are many, We have sinned against You.

ubertrad

wolfsbane wrote: »

ubertrad said:

No, its use in Protestant translations has no theological connotation, pro or anti OSAS. As my post pointed out, it can cover both the genuine believer who falls into sin or mere professors of the faith who depart from it. Most use among Christians is of the former - the backslider being distinguished from the apostate.
___________________________________________________________________
Jeremiah 14:7 O LORD, though our iniquities testify against us, Do it for Your name’s sake; For our backslidings are many, We have sinned against You.

Your opinion.

I surmise that it was an editorial decision to support the new doctrine. The specific term does not appear in Catholic Bibles as far as I can see.

wolfsbane

ubertrad wrote: »

Your opinion.

I surmise that it was an editorial decision to support the new doctrine. The specific term does not appear in Catholic Bibles as far as I can see.

How would 'backslidings' support Reformation doctrine more than 'rebellions'? The 'rebel' can be a true believer who temporarily rebels, or a false believer who apostatizes - just the same with 'backslider'.

The OSAS doctrine is not the Reformation doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints. OSAS came long after the Reformation, and long after the KJV Bible.

_________________________________________________________________
Jeremiah 14:7 O LORD, though our iniquities testify against us, Do it for Your name’s sake; For our backslidings are many, We have sinned against You.

georgieporgy

ubertrad wrote: »

Your opinion.

I surmise that it was an editorial decision to support the new doctrine. The specific term does not appear in Catholic Bibles as far as I can see.

I agree. I have never heard of the word used in a biblical quotation before this thread.

wolfsbane

georgieporgy wrote: »

I agree. I have never heard of the word used in a biblical quotation before this thread.

As I pointed out, the term 'backslider' has been in Bibles for centuries. It could not possibly have been invented to support OSAS.

___________________________________________________________________
Jeremiah 14:7 O LORD, though our iniquities testify against us, Do it for Your name’s sake; For our backslidings are many, We have sinned against You.

neuro-praxis

The term backslider is one used by judgmental Christians a touch too sure of themselves to refer to someone who they no longer consider to be "in".

JimiTime

wolfsbane wrote: »

As I pointed out, the term 'backslider' has been in Bibles for centuries. It could not possibly have been invented to support OSAS.

___________________________________________________________________
Jeremiah 14:7 O LORD, though our iniquities testify against us, Do it for Your name’s sake; For our backslidings are many, We have sinned against You.

Yeah, but if you are a foaming at the mouth, divisive, sectarian RC, anything can be bent to show its just them dirty protestants changing the bible.

JimiTime

neuro-praxis wrote: »

The term backslider is one used by judgmental Christians a touch too sure of themselves to refer to someone who they no longer consider to be "in".

Of course it CAN be used by judgemental people, but many things/terms can be misused by such people.

neuro-praxis

JimiTime wrote: »

Of course it CAN be used by judgemental people

and is.

JimiTime

neuro-praxis wrote: »

and is.

So what? Judgemental people misuse terms all the time, just like people such as the Phelps misuse scripture to propagate their hatefulness. The tone of your post seems to suggest a disdain for the term and that you think it is ONLY used by such people. For the record, I've never used it myself, and am only familiar with it since about 3 months ago. I would have no problem referring to myself in such a manner, to my shame of course, but a worthy term nonetheless IMO.

neuro-praxis

You have understood me perfectly JimiTime.

PDN

JimiTime wrote: »

Yeah, but if you are a foaming at the mouth, divisive, sectarian RC, anything can be bent to show its just them dirty protestants changing the bible.

Attack the post, not the poster please Jimi.

PDN

I do despair when things that should be discussed as matters of common interest among Christians descend into Protestant versus Catholic nonsense.

The term 'backslider' was not coined to justify a 'new doctrine' :rolleyes:

The term is a perfectly valid attempt to render into the English the idea of the Hebrew word soog which literally means to flinch, or to draw back.

The word 'apostasy' has a similar meaning. It is derived from the Greek (apo + stasis) literally, 'to step away from a position'.

So whether you use the word 'backslider', 'fall away' or 'apostasy' you are expressing the same idea - that someone who was once in good standing in the faith has removed themselves from that position.

So, no new doctrines, just good honest attempts at expressing a biblical concept.

JimiTime

neuro-praxis wrote: »

You have understood me perfectly JimiTime.

Seems a perfectly adequate descriptive term, but if you judge that anyone who uses the term is judgemental, then I find your objection a little ironic.

JimiTime

PDN wrote: »

I do despair when things that should be discussed as matters of common interest among Christians descend into Protestant versus Catholic nonsense.

The term 'backslider' was not coined to justify a 'new doctrine' :rolleyes:

The term is a perfectly valid attempt to render into the English the idea of the Hebrew word soog which literally means to flinch, or to draw back.

The word 'apostasy' has a similar meaning. It is derived from the Greek (apo + stasis) literally, 'to step away from a position'.

So whether you use the word 'backslider', 'fall away' or 'apostasy' you are expressing the same idea - that someone who was once in good standing in the faith has removed themselves from that position.

So, no new doctrines, just good honest attempts at expressing a biblical concept.

I thought it was different to 'apostate' no? I thought apostate meant someone who consciously went against the holy spirit? Whereas backslider was someone who, shall we say, falls spiritually asleep.

PDN

JimiTime wrote: »

I thought it was different to 'apostate' no? I thought apostate meant someone who consciously went against the holy spirit? Whereas backslider was someone who, shall we say, falls spiritually asleep.

What you are describing is how evangelicals often use the terms. I was referring to their biblical meanings, which are much less distinct.

wolfsbane

neuro-praxis wrote: »

The term backslider is one used by judgmental Christians a touch too sure of themselves to refer to someone who they no longer consider to be "in".

Yes, any term can be abused. And from time to time we ARE called to make judgements on other Christian's lifestyles. We just need to make sure our moral demands are those that God has made, not of our own invention.

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1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.
12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”