Brian Cowen, Sean Fitzpatrick, Golf and the Gardai

Liam Byrne

later10 wrote: »

You're like a broken record. The point remains.

The point that they haven't "personally" witnessed it but they know well that it's going on......fair enough.

So they choose to overlook / tacitly condone corruption.

Therefore, as I said, I have no sympathy for them.

later12

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Therefore, as I said, I have no sympathy for them.

OK...Nobody asked you for sympathy, who cares?

Liam Byrne

later10 wrote: »

OK...Nobody asked you for sympathy, who cares?

Well I obviously also can't understand why anyone neutral would have, for the same reasons.

But this thread is about Cowen & Fitzpatrick, not volunteers, so let's not deflect from this latest sickening controversy that includes the names Anglo & FF.

later12

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Well I obviously also can't understand why anyone neutral would have, for the same reasons.

Right. And I suppose anyone who voted Fianna Fail tacitly condoned or condones corruption as well? Or is it just the activists?

Rubik.

KerranJast wrote: »

Because he probably hasn't done anything illegal? And before someone jumps I'm with Bernie Madoff example he was running an illegal Ponzi (pyramid) scheme.

The so called "golden circle" transactions could amount to market manipulation, which is illegal and could result in a very big fine and/or up to 10 years in prison. Other Company laws that may have been broken include insider trading, false accounting and concealment of an offence. Since he was arrested under Criminal Justice Act, fraud is another possibility.

Laminations

later10 wrote: »

Right. And I suppose anyone who voted Fianna Fail tacitly condoned or condones corruption as well? Or is it just the activists?

Not quite, but anyone who votes for them next time does tacitly condone corruption yes. You may have been unaware of the corruption before 2007 but after all thats come out in the intervening years if you vote for them inspite of this, you are overlooking it. Volunteers volunteer. If they choose to volunteer for a corrupt rotten economy-wrecking party then they do so knowingly and quite obviously willingly. Its like tattooing yourself with a swastika in an attempt to revive the original meaning of the symbol - why bother after it has been corrupted so much and reflects very badly on you.

At this stage if you stay with FF, you are a traitor. Set up a new party with the original ideals if you desire to revive them.

It is beyond belief that Cowen played a round of golf with Fitzpatrick without them discussing Anglos troubles. The timings of these calls and meetings also coincide with other decisions that were made in Anglo. Why didn't Cowen disclose all meetings he had wth Fitzpatrick ages ago? Even if nothing was discussed and they just silently licked each others balls for 4 hours, it is completely inappropriate for top politicians to be meeting socially with big businessmen and bankers. Cosy, crony capitalism.

sligopark

later10 wrote: »

Right. And I suppose anyone who voted Fianna Fail tacitly condoned or condones corruption as well? Or is it just the activists?

unfortunately one could say this or state that politics is corrupt - the fact remains that FF ministers and TDs removed all say from the cumainn and so removed the same input from the ordinary FF activist, then ignored the irish public and thrwe aside the needs and wishes of the ordianry citizen on the street in favour of their own interests and those of their elite buddies

Liam Byrne

later10 wrote: »

Right. And I suppose anyone who voted Fianna Fail tacitly condoned or condones corruption as well? Or is it just the activists?

Well depending on when it dawned on them (Haughey, Ahern or now) they obviously don't object to it from then on.

juuge

hotmail.com wrote: »

Nobody is going to believe anything Cowen says about these meetings, no matter he says.

I wonder will many FF TDs, hoping to succeed Cowen, come out to defend him.

John Moloney the aptly titled Minister for Mental Health has already defended Cowen on RTE's news at one. They walk amongst us!

Fitzerb

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Well I obviously also can't understand why anyone neutral would have, for the same reasons.

But this thread is about Cowen & Fitzpatrick, not volunteers, so let's not deflect from this latest sickening controversy that includes the names Anglo & FF.

And I thought this thread was about to people playing a game of golf and a lot of conspiracy theorists getting their jolly’s from it.
So tell me Liam, what they did they talk about. Perhaps Seanie told him that in two months’ time his bank would be broke and could he slip him a few quid. Or perhaps he named the golden ten to him and told him not to say a word, or even better they planned the switch of the money from Permanent TSB and picked the date.
You are just forgetting one little think, The Bank Regulator knew all the above, the only problem was he never officially told the Government.
Or maybe he was looking for the names of the people who put up posters for FF to see if he could get them to transfer accounts to Anglo
Did we not have the FG fund raiser in the K Club of July this year with some “dodgy people on the tee box” Wasn’t O'Flynn Construction, one of the country's most indebted property firms, who recently transferred debts approaching €1bn to the National Asset Management Agency playing with the good people from FG.
You really should try and see the full picture Liam before you make you get ill from dreaming up the conspiracy theories

Fitzerb

Laminations wrote: »

Not quite, but anyone who votes for them next time does tacitly condone corruption yes. You may have been unaware of the corruption before 2007 but after all thats come out in the intervening years if you vote for them inspite of this, you are overlooking it. Volunteers volunteer. If they choose to volunteer for a corrupt rotten economy-wrecking party then they do so knowingly and quite obviously willingly. Its like tattooing yourself with a swastika in an attempt to revive the original meaning of the symbol - why bother after it has been corrupted so much and reflects very badly on you.

At this stage if you stay with FF, you are a traitor. Set up a new party with the original ideals if you desire to revive them.

It is beyond belief that Cowen played a round of golf with Fitzpatrick without them discussing Anglos troubles. The timings of these calls and meetings also coincide with other decisions that were made in Anglo. Why didn't Cowen disclose all meetings he had wth Fitzpatrick ages ago? Even if nothing was discussed and they just silently licked each others balls for 4 hours, it is completely inappropriate for top politicians to be meeting socially with big businessmen and bankers. Cosy, crony capitalism.

They absolutely were not licking each other’s balls for 4 hours on the golf course. It’s a two shot penalty to touch your playing partner’s ball during the round

Fitzerb

Laminations wrote: »

it is completely inappropriate for top politicians to be meeting socially with big businessmen and bankers. Cosy, crony capitalism.

And you views on FG play golf ing with O'Flynn Construction, who transferred debts approaching €1bn to the National Asset Management Agency.
??????

sligopark

Fitzerb wrote: »

They absolutely were not licking each other’s balls for 4 hours on the golf course.

How exactly do you know they weren't? Do you trust these particular three people to return proper scores of their shots never mind penalties?

This is a proper forum - please provide evidence they were not licking one another's balls for 4 hours upon a golf course please!

Fitzerb

sligopark wrote: »

How exactly do you know they weren't? Do you trust these particular three people to return proper scores of their shots never mind penalties?

This is a proper forum - please provide evidence they were not licking one another's balls for 4 hours upon a golf course please!

My evidence is 100% solid. Neither of them have any balls... Sure bhoy isnt that the problem

jmayo

KerranJast wrote: »

Because he probably hasn't done anything illegal? And before someone jumps I'm with Bernie Madoff example he was running an illegal Ponzi (pyramid) scheme.

A lot of people would now reckon that Anglo (biggest loss maker in 2009 worldwide) was indeed a ponzi scheme. :rolleyes:

patwicklow wrote: »

I worked in druids glen for 6 years, Seanie a member there and apart from all the bad talk about him i do have to say he was a sound guy in person and all his family. we had any one that was famous even hollywood stars come through the house. and cowen has played golf there alot.even when seanie stepped down as chairman and drumm took over we done the big event in a massive marquee on the course and that was some party millionaires/billionaires, the car park was full of top of the range 100k-200k cars was great to look at all these cars, and i used to say to myself were the feck has all this money come from.I knew in my hearth and soul back in 2006 that the bubble had burst when a good few of the staff at druids were made redundant including myself the good times were over.

Just think that your taxes and your kid's taxes are going to be helping pay for all the flashy trashy behaviour you witnesses. :rolleyes:

later10 wrote: »

The people I feel most sorry for in relation to this story are Fianna Fáil activists. Those people work very hard and voluntarily for the party, go out in wind and rain selling tickets and canvassing and fundraising and attending meetings, for what? An unpopular and isolated party leader that is stupid enough to associate with one of the most toxic figures in the history of the state, in fact to play golf with him, and a host of ministers and TDs who are happy to jump ship as soon as they get the feeling that they won't be tolerated anymore. I'm not sure how much longer those grassroots people will want to continue to put up with that, and I don't particularly blame them.

ff activists over the last 30 years are the ones that helped these people get into the positions of power, that allowed them do the sh** that now has this country in the state it is in.

These politicans did not exist wholly in isolation, who helped them get elected, who collected for them at church gates, who hoisted them shoul;der high at election counts ?

And don't give us the sh** that they did not know what they were up to. :mad:
ff were shown to be corrupt under haughey, then there was burke, lawlor and then we had all the revelations about p flynn, b flynn, fahy, and the actual leader ahern.
Yet these poor activists you now claim were hoodwinked.
BS

If I recall correctly at time of last election you canvassed for ff candidate.
Why not go ask him why he voted for bertie as leader and subsequently why he voted for biffo, then ask him why he voted for him motions of confidence ?
Then ask yourself how come you still reckon he has bright future in politics.

I am tired of this sh** now eminating either claiming politicans had no choice but to support the inept unethical often corrupt leaders or that grassroot activists knew nothing. :mad:

later10 wrote: »

Right. And I suppose anyone who voted Fianna Fail tacitly condoned or condones corruption as well? Or is it just the activists?

Yes they did.
If you voted for ff at last General Election you were voting for a party whose leader had a very questionable financial history he could not adequately explain and who had promoted to high office a known corrupt theive, one ray bruke.
And yes it was first mooted back in the 1970s what bruke was up to and it led to a jounrlists having to leave this country due to said politican wrecking his career.

Sir Oxman

There is feck all new about this except the 'very honourable' (according to our distinguishless media who have been complicit in keeping shtum about **** like this and worse) Mr Cowen is not very honourable at all.

In fact the man is a liar, a charlatan and the complete opposite of what the Irish nation should have as the man in charge. Even in the best of times...

The big story is why it has taken so long, despite barefaced lies by 'the most honourable Brian Cowen' as dubbed by the media, and notice that he is always mentioned as this by the likes of Sheehan and various Spindo hacks - when the dogs in the street knew he had meetings with the likes of Fitzpatrick at the height of the crash.
Nothing was discussed, bar their swing. If you believe that I've a site in Ringsend worth half a billion to sell you.

Mugs.
That's us.
****ing mugs.

sligopark

lucozader

i don't believe him

Sir Oxman

jmayo wrote: »

ff activists over the last 30 years are the ones that helped these people get into the positions of power, that allowed them do the sh** that now has this country in the state it is in.

These politicans did not exist wholly in isolation, who helped them get elected, who collected for them at church gates, who hoisted them shoul;der high at election counts ?

To quote.

This needs to be said and spread.
They are complicit. The troops are as guilty.
No amount of bullshine can forgive them - I don't and I never will.
If I find one owns a shop, I won't shop there.
The best pub in my locale has a huge lit up picture 'feature' with Ahern B outside the Dail. I don't drink there because of this.
Shun them.
They are worth less than the **** on your shoe.

Shea O'Meara

Fitzerb wrote: »

And I thought this thread was about to people playing a game of golf and a lot of conspiracy theorists getting their jolly’s from it.
So tell me Liam, what they did they talk about. Perhaps Seanie told him that in two months’ time his bank would be broke and could he slip him a few quid. Or perhaps he named the golden ten to him and told him not to say a word, or even better they planned the switch of the money from Permanent TSB and picked the date.
You are just forgetting one little think, The Bank Regulator knew all the above, the only problem was he never officially told the Government.
Or maybe he was looking for the names of the people who put up posters for FF to see if he could get them to transfer accounts to Anglo
Did we not have the FG fund raiser in the K Club of July this year with some “dodgy people on the tee box” Wasn’t O'Flynn Construction, one of the country's most indebted property firms, who recently transferred debts approaching €1bn to the National Asset Management Agency playing with the good people from FG.
You really should try and see the full picture Liam before you make you get ill from dreaming up the conspiracy theories

There is no need for conspiracy theories.
The facts say it all. We may never have confirmation of what was discussed, okay.
Do you not think he was the last person Cowen should be cosying up to at that time, even if just for appearances?
If seeking a contract from even local government there are strict rules. Each tender put forward is reviewed, given equal time. Any connection or family relation to a councilor or council employee must be noted as to avoid talk of nepotism and/or playing favourites.
Now, think of arguably the biggest and long reaching decisions ever undertaken by the state, the whole banking issue. Then put Cowen and Fitzpatrick on a golf course and only reveal years after the fact.
Is this not suspicious or in the least wrong to you?

I await the bog standard FFail, FG do the same Labour are satanist, probably response.

How can you tell when Brian Cowen is lying?

His lips are moving.

round tower huntsman

any one with half a brain knows cowen knew full well what was going on in anglo. he's a corrupt gombeen quisling that put the interests of his friends ahead of the irish workers. hopefully though these revelations will convince any idiot ff'ers in offaly to give this traitor his marching orders at election time.

ilovesleep

For fcuk sake I cant find my passport anywhere. Or the poitin or the rope.

ilovesleep

Fcuking ridden senseless we are

charlemont

This country needs its balls back..People died, fought the British, to have our own screw us over !!... Cowen is as stubborn as a mule, you can bet they have the country so ****ed that it will be years before any future government can get the country back on its feet...

joseph brand

I want to see a 'Brian Cowen' mask, similar to the Craig David Bo Selecta mask.
It's very doable.

Maybe it could come with a brown envelope, pint of stout and some sausages or pudding.

Laminations

I would like to see the same clarifications that Alan Shatter has called for

http://www.alanshatter.ie/?p=2363

1. Has he yet been interviewed by An Garda Síochána, and did he, prior to today, inform the Garda Commissioner of his now revealed contact with Sean FitzPatrick in the crucial period between March and September 2008?

2. Precisely what information did Sean FitzPatrick give him in March 2008 about the Quinn shareholding in Anglo Irish, and what ‘issue’ did he advise Sean FitzPatrick he would refer to the Governor of the Central Bank?

3. Was the ‘referral’ by him of this issue to the Governor of the Central Bank, by way of a letter, phone call, or through a Departmental official, and precisely what was the Governor of the Central Bank told about the matter? If the referral was by way of letter or any other document, I am calling on the Taoiseach to publish the item concerned.

4. Did Brian Cowen as Minister for Finance inform former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern of his March 2008 conversation with Sean FitzPatrick, and did he inform the Cabinet? If the Cabinet discussed the matter, what was the nature of the discussion, when did it occur, and what decisions, if any, were made by it?

5. Following being appointed Taoiseach, did Brian Cowen inform Brian Lenihan of the content of his conversation with Sean FitzPatrick in March 2008, or did he inform him of his conversation with Sean FitzPatrick in July 2008, and to what extent were these conversations taken into consideration in September 2008 regarding the bank guarantee?

6. Did Brian Cowen, as Minister for Finance or Taoiseach, at any time inform Green Ministers John Gormley or Eamon Ryan of his March 2008 conversation with Sean FitzPatrick, or his July 2008 social outing with Sean FitzPatrick, and if so when?

Inverse to the power of one!

How many times do you have to be burnt to learn theres always fire where theres smoke and Fianna Fail!

FFS! What is it about Ireland where the bloody obvious is right under our noses yet we have to give the benefit of the doubt! Did the same for Charlie! Same for Bertie!

And for what! To give them the leeway they required to sleaze past in to the next election. This is what their damage control breeds off, create enough doubt and drag a scandal out long enough and somehow you'll still be standing 10 years down the road!

It's a fact that we don't know what transpired between the two on the golf course, and speculation on this can't really amount to much.....BUT!.....We're seeing the suspects close to the scene of the crime and thats enough to pursue a line of investigation.

Do you really want to ignore the smoke one more time?

southsiderosie

Just as a point of clarification...

Are the media in Ireland given a copy of the taoiseach's daily itinerary?

Biggins

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/editorial/cronyism-is-par-for-the-course-2490064.html

With the forth coming election in mind, has any of the present parties stated yet that they are going to do something about the present inherent cronyism (besides FF who are up to their necks in it for decades) ?