Brian Cowen, Sean Fitzpatrick, Golf and the Gardai

later12

stee.mc79 wrote: »

Yes they are entitled to vote what ever they want, yet they are the same people who have benifited by this governments reluctance to enact real change in this country. mean while real people like myself are having to make do without.

Wow poor you. Yes I bet none of the hundreds of thousands of people who voted Fianna Fail in the elections of the past two years, nor in all the elections of my lifetime, (when no other party has been an electoral victor), know anything about 'doing without'. Musha musha musha.

Monty Burnz

melekalikimaka wrote: »

evidence or blind assumptions?

what 'evidence' is there to connect a game of golf to government corruption, no member of state would ever go out social outing with leading business men no?

I'm sorry but if you believe that the issues regarding Anglo and Sean Quinn's stake were not discussed then I've a bridge you might like to buy.

melekalikimaka wrote: »

the amount of people on complaining about everybody possible but themselves on here is shocking, until the country realises that the public played a huge part in this, we are doomed to repeat it

I agree with this. I haven't voted for Fianna Failure and I didn't borrow to buy a bubble property. I was the guy being shunned for pointing out the bust on the horizon 7 or so years ago. My hands are pretty clean.

The public in general needs to learn that voting for corrupt morons is not in their own long-term interests.

Liam Byrne

later10 wrote: »

Wow poor you. Yes I bet none of the hundreds of thousands of people who voted Fianna Fail in the elections of the past two years, nor in all the elections of my lifetime, (when no other party has been an electoral victor), know anything about 'doing without'. Musha musha musha.

What's your point?

FF voters got what they voted for.

Unfortunately the rest of us did too.

ilovesleep

francie81 wrote: »

One here that is working but will be the first one to walk out the gates should it come to it and I hope it does, sick to the b***** of the soft Irish mentality.

Ive walked from many jobs before in the past and Im walking again.

aquaman

melekalikimaka wrote: »

evidence or blind assumptions?

what 'evidence' is there to connect a game of golf to government corruption, no member of state would ever go out social outing with leading business men no?

the amount of people on complaining about everybody possible but themselves on here is shocking, until the country realises that the public played a huge part in this, we are doomed to repeat it

It is very difficult to give direct evidence to prove wrongdoing has occurred, particularly in a country with weak fraud laws and no corruption laws. We definitely wont prove anything here based on a media report.

HOWEVER, there is a problem with the system in this country, there is a problem with what is considered (by many) acceptable..

The leader of the country is a golfing buddy of one of the countries bank chiefs. They hang out play golf and discuss whatever they discuss. 2 months later the leader of the country decides to guarantee the bank of his buddy. A bank with no current accounts and no value to the ordinary man on the street.
The fact that this bank was guaranteed by the state becomes a major and critical factor in the countries ultimate demise into financial meltdown.
There was no good reason to prop up this bank. Doing so has contributed considerably to the fact to quote said leader of the country that "we are where we are".
Well, we are where we are because the interestes of golfing buddies are put before the national interest.
This is not a conspiracy theory.. Big business and FF are inextricably linked, they are friends and associates, they look after each other.

So when you say that the public are to blame you are correct, because although this relationship is documented and obvious the public still repeatedly returned them to power?

Playing golf with someone who stands to benefit from the biggest decisions you have to make is not a crime as such but it's definitely not acceptable either, it is not how democracy should work.

the groutch

so it seems the golf course has become the new Galway tent

Sierra Oscar

Surprising that no one has posted the Taoiseach's statement on the matter:

Statement by the Taoiseach Mr. Brian Cowen T.D. in relation to Sean Fitzpatrick Book

I want to take this opportunity to utterly refute any suggestions of
impropriety on my part arising out of the recent publication of a book
about Sean Fitzpatrick.

As I confirmed this weekend, I did attend a golf outing in July 2008
organised by a friend Fintan Drury which Mr. Fitzpatrick also attended.

I am quite clear that no discussions regarding Anglo Irish Bank took place.

It was a social outing in full public view. There was nothing untoward, no
hidden or secret agenda and no concessions, favours or interventions
requested or granted. Certain people are drawing inferences for political
and other motives, they are malicious, unfounded and have no basis in fact.

The second issue being discussed is a phone call I took from Mr.
Fitzpatrick while in Asia during the St Patrick’s Day period of 2008 when I
was Minister for Finance. This phone call related to concerns Mr.
Fitzpatrick had about the market situation in relation to the bank’s
shares.

As I confirmed in the Dáil as far back as February 2009, as Minister for
Finance, I had been informed by the Governor of the Central Bank in early
March 2008, that a situation was developing in regard to the contracts for
difference issue in Anglo Irish Bank. The exact scale and detail of the
difficulty was not known at that point.

Prior to talking to Mr. Fitzpatrick, I spoke with the Governor. Having
listened to Mr. Fitzpatrick I told him I would refer the issue to the
Governor of the Central Bank. The Central Bank and the Regulator
subsequently followed up on the issue at a meeting with Anglo Irish Bank
which I understand was held in the Central Bank Headquarters on Good Friday the 21st March 2008.

The continuing attempt to suggest that the Government’s approach to the
affairs of Anglo Irish Bank was influenced by political or any inappropriate considerations is utterly without foundation. The facts in this instance demonstrate that as do the findings of the independent review carried out by Professor Honohan which similarly found that “there is no evidence or hint of corrupt regulatory forbearance.”

Mr.Micro

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Surprising that no one has posted the Taoiseach's statement on the matter:

The trouble now for Biffo, even if he is telling the truth nobody will believe him since he denied repeatedly about the IMF/EU and much else despite the fact of it all being over the BBC at the time. Not a bit sorry for him, he is a disaster and bungling and shambolic does not even come close. Its a grave tragedy that he is still in office and will be for many more months.

ilovesleep

Mr.Micro wrote: »

The trouble now for Biffo, even if he is telling the truth nobody will believe him since he denied repeatedly about the IMF/EU and much else despite the fact of it all being over the BBC at the time. Not a bit sorry for him, he is a disaster and bungling and shambolic does not even come close. Its a grave tragedy that he is still in office and will be for many more months.

I was going to post something similiar. Cowen denied that he didnt need any help from the IMF. The next minute he signed our lives away to the IMF.
Fianna Fails only skill is lieing.

Fitzerb

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Surprising that no one has posted the Taoiseach's statement on the matter:

Not really, most posters here dont deal in facts they are dreamers

Monty Burnz

Fitzerb wrote: »

Not really, most posters here dont deal in facts they are dreamers

Yes, whereas Fianna Failure are all about the facts..."the IMF are not in town"..."NAMA is not a bailout for developers"..."I was a bit hoarse"..."It was a social round of golf and we only talked about butterflies and handicaps for 5 hours"...blah blah blah.

I thought that Fianna Failures were more cunning than to expect us to swallow this bull at this stage in the game.

Seth Brundle

If there was nothing to it and Cowen has nothing to hide, why then did it take Seanie to bring out the fact that they shared a friendly phone call and game of golf?
Has Biffo mentioned these facts to the gardai or to the DoCE?

Seth Brundle

A few posters have said that they haven't believed him since the IMF stuff. Did you actually believe him before that?

Still, Johnny Gormless hasn't walked out so at least one person still believes Cowen's statement!

sligopark

kbannon wrote: »

If there was nothing to it and Cowen has nothing to hide, why then did it take Seanie to bring out the fact that they shared a friendly phone call and game of golf?

I think it was more the case that Seanie had enough and dropped the fat boy in it.

Shea O'Meara

Fitzerb wrote: »

Not really, most posters here dont deal in facts they are dreamers

I don't believe him. I find it insulting that Cowen is telling me no financial issues were discussed.
They played golf and were in touch, that is not a dream but the outcome is a waking nightmare.

I find it odd that people are in such dreamy denial that any wrong doing could have possibly taken place considering the players involved, the outcome and FFail's recent and past history.
So to believe something untoward took place is a logical conclusion in my view.

Seth Brundle

sligopark wrote: »

I think it was more the case that Seanie had enough and dropped the fat boy in it.

Oh, I know, but if there was nothing untoward about it all, why didn't Cowen notify those conducting investigations knowing that it may eventually come out and when it would he could say that he has "already informed the authorities of the events and that it would be inappropriate to comment" instead of having to come out defending himself.
If you have to defend yourself then you are already losing!

And before the FF team here come out asking why he should have to account for every phone call and golf outing, of course he should, given that these events were with someone involved in the biggest investigation in the state ever.

Mr.Micro

kbannon wrote: »

If there was nothing to it and Cowen has nothing to hide, why then did it take Seanie to bring out the fact that they shared a friendly phone call and game of golf?
Has Biffo mentioned these facts to the gardai or to the DoCE?

Its a possibility that Seanie is looking ahead and if he has legal actions to fight he will no doubt claim that Biffo et al knew all about Anglo etc so he alone is not going to take all the heat, only an opinion but it is possibly a shot across Biffo et al from his golfing buddy?

sligopark

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Surprising that no one has posted the Taoiseach's statement on the matter:

Statement by the Taoiseach Mr. Brian Cowen T.D. in relation to Sean Fitzpatrick Book

I want to take this opportunity to utterly refute any suggestions of
impropriety on my part arising out of the recent publication of a book
about Sean Fitzpatrick.

As I confirmed this weekend, I did attend a golf outing in July 2008
organised by a friend Fintan Drury which Mr. Fitzpatrick also attended.

I am quite clear that no discussions regarding Anglo Irish Bank took place.

It was a social outing in full public view. There was nothing untoward, no
hidden or secret agenda and no concessions, favours or interventions
requested or granted. Certain people are drawing inferences for political
and other motives, they are malicious, unfounded and have no basis in fact.

Biggins

Honestly, I find it very hard to trust ANYTHING that comes out of a Fianna Fail mouth.
Do I believe his statement? No.

later12

Liam Byrne wrote: »

What's your point?

FF voters got what they voted for.

Unfortunately the rest of us did too.

No. Everybody who voted got what they, as a group, voted for. It isn't Fianna Failer's who've given no other party but them an electoral victory general election after general election all through my lifetime, it was regular citizens. it will be regular citizens who I believe will return them to power in the coming years as well, as they have done as recently as 2009.

That isn't necessarily a good thing by the way, but it's very likely.

Mr.Micro

Nor do I believe him, it is incredible to believe that what was going on at Anglo was unknown to the Government? We are not talking about a bit of embezzlement of a few millions but Billions. No, IMO there is a big connection to FF and Seanie is thinking of Seanie of course. Biffo has zero credibility and if this further erodes FF then it is the silver lining and only underscores what many believe that we live in a banana Republic.

goat2

frontline right now is on about it

Mr.Micro

later10 wrote: »

No. Everybody who voted got what they, as a group, voted for. It isn't Fianna Failer's who've given no other party but them an electoral victory general election after general election all through my lifetime, it was regular citizens. it will be regular citizens who I believe will return them to power in the coming years as well, as they have done as recently as 2009.

That isn't necessarily a good thing by the way, but it's very likely.

The dynamics will have changed with IMF/EU loan to pay back and things may well be very rough. Most people will associate this with FF for many many years to come so its no certainty that FF ever recover especially if they lose big time at the GE.

sligopark

found these ...had to post up ...

Verb to 'Cowen' makes Lexicon..

Cowen [v.] pron:kOW-N
To make an utter hash of; hollow blustering; (to pull a) Cowen; incapacity to tell actual truth; a national ‘facepalm’; to f_ck up royally; to protect one’s cronies; the act of soaking money in kerosene before storing it intentionally in a blast furnace; to waffle, to drone;
[n.](slang) derogatory term similar to cuňt



loved this video toward the end...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60YCR0GzJ_g

Lister1

It would be impossible to play a game of golf for 5 hours with someone who afaik is not a personal friend and not discuss business. Sure isnt that what the purpose of these golf outings are?

Do we know more about when the golf outing took place? If it was a weekday and they didnt discuss business as a tax payer I feel shafted that we were paying him to participate in a social outing.

later12

Mr.Micro wrote: »

The dynamics will have changed with IMF/EU loan to pay back and things may well be very rough. Most people will associate this with FF for many many years to come so its no certainty that FF ever recover especially if they lose big time at the GE.

It's not a certainty but I do think it's likely. Remember it will be fINE gael implementing most of the IMF/ European MOU, which they will probably have revised with the IMF and the Eurozone members by then. Voters often have short memories and deeply held loyalties in Irish politics.

ilovelamp2000

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Surprising that no one has posted the Taoiseach's statement on the matter:

I love "organised by a friend, Fintan Drury"

That "friend" was an Anglo Board member until a few weeks before this game of golf.

ilovelamp2000

I'd love to know more about the Austrian subsidiary of Anglo that was sold, consequently putting it out of reach of any investigation.

http://kathleenbarrington.blogspot.com/2010/09/curious-tale-of-anglo-irish-bank-and.html

What names are amongst those 4000 ?

I'd be willing to bet we'll recognise a number of them.

goat2

ilovelamp2000 wrote: »

I love "organised by a friend, Fintan Drury"

That "friend" was an Anglo Board member until a few weeks before this game of golf.

the can of worms is opening,

ilovelamp2000

goat2 wrote: »

the can of worms is opening,

I believe he was also an advisor of Cowen's at one stage.

A quick google shows Fintan Drury was a member of the Risk and Compliance Committee. i.e. he knew the position of the bank when he organised a game of golf for Seanie and Cowen.

It's a horrible little country we live in.