Brian Cowen, Sean Fitzpatrick, Golf and the Gardai

zig

ilovesleep wrote: »

I want to know why ireland is so accepting of whats happening here in the country.

i said it before and ill say it again, a massive middle class.
With all our moaning and groaning we still have internet/digital TV/reliable breakfasts/dinners/even takeaways /microwave/ the ability to buy new clothes from time to time(if your working anyway)/the ability to go on the piss from time to time.

I obviously dont speak for everyone in the above list but anyone thats working in this country can afford this stuff unless you are in huge negative equity.

Laminations

Good account of why this all stinks

http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/editorial/fitzpatrick-revelations--cowen-must-explain-his-golf-silence-141656.html

femur61

Seanie must feel invincible, he bankrupted a country, heart breaking to see the program last night of all the people leaving, but he also brought down a government. They were going anyway but I wonder how does he feel.

goat2

that programme was very sad, people with no way out of it, it is frigtning, i wonder did any of the ministers sons or daughters have to leave

Biggins

I seen that programme too on RTE. A very sad documentary indeed.
In all honestly, some the politicians on Primetime after it, should have been tackled about the it and/or the situation.

Mr.Micro

femur61 wrote: »

Seanie must feel invincible, he bankrupted a country, heart breaking to see the program last night of all the people leaving, but he also brought down a government. They were going anyway but I wonder how does he feel.

Not gone yet, more time still to do more damage backed up by the vile Greens who will tolerate anything FF throw up or do so as to cling on to power.

I emigrated many years ago and I have have total empathy for those leaving. This disgusting Government will point at the live register in future if there is an improvement knowing full well it will be because of the many that have left, not that the FF/Green amalgam sham will care.

Biggins

The Departure Day programme: http://www.rte.ie./player/#v=1088599

Liam Byrne

kbannon wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0111/breaking17.html

Johnny caves in to his master yet again!

Do I remember Ahern not finding evidence of impropriety when he supposedly went investigating Ray Burke?

I guess it depends on how hard you (want to) look.

Seth Brundle

femur61 wrote: »

Seanie must feel invincible, he bankrupted a country, heart breaking to see the program last night of all the people leaving, but he also brought down a government. They were going anyway but I wonder how does he feel.

Seanie hasn't brought down a government. Our current government is quite happy to be wallowing in the mess that both they and Seanie helped leave behind. They may leave soon but FF along with their latest symbiotic partners, na glasraí, haven't gone yet!

Mr.Micro

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Do I remember Ahern not finding evidence of impropriety when he supposedly went investigating Ray Burke?

I guess it depends on how hard you (want to) look.

Well I have to say what ever integrity the Greens thought they had coming into Government with FF is long gone.....a turn of 180 degrees. The Greens have an identity crisis in that they have become indistinguishable from their masters.

Seth Brundle

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Do I remember Ahern not finding evidence of impropriety when he supposedly went investigating Ray Burke?

I guess it depends on how hard you (want to) look.

From the FF Code of Conduct:
Rule #2: A party member must never look for, find, acknowledge or condemn any wrongdoing made by another party member no matter the immorality of the deed.
Rule #3: Rule #2 may be ignored on occasions when the media are ruthlessly hounding an unfortunate party member that has been found out to have committed some form of wrongdoing. This only applies to situations where party colleagues can no longer provide forms of defence for the members improprieties and can no longer blame media thuggery, Fine Gael or Lehmans.



(Rule #1 is obviously that the party always comes first above all else)

Seth Brundle

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Well I have to say what ever integrity the Greens thought they had coming into Government with FF is long gone.....a turn of 180 degrees. The Greens have an identity crisis in that they have become indistinguishable from their masters.

The negotiations held when entering government stipulated that the greens were to abandon all forms of integrity; something that they implemented quite eagerly when they realised the potential due from pensions, etc.

EricPraline

The original issue of this thread is currently being discussed on Prime Time on RTE1.

sligopark

Just watching and listening to Tony Killeen answer nothing - indeed FF have mastered the art, once only held by sinn fein, of not answering the question.

SB-08

This Prime Time is very damaging for Cowen. Well done RTE for once. That report in particular but when the Minister, probably his closest ally at the moment, Tony Killeen clearly doesn't even believe his own waffle. He was asked 3 questions by Miriam and not one of them was answered. Just typical FF waffle as per usual. How I wish Vincent Browne had have been the interviewer - he would have gone on and on and on asking the questions. Miriam did well though. This whole thing stinks to the high heavens. Why are there so few senior ministers speaking about this? Why have the three main leader contenders (Hannifin, Martin and Lenny) not expressed confidence in Clowen and his statement? And why has Cowen himself not made any public appearance to discuss this matter and answer these questions, most of which were totally ignored in his so called explanation.

What are the chances of Clowen being ousted as FF leader before the election but remaining Taoiseach? At this stage for FF to go into the election with him as leader would be pure insanity. Who on earth among them could possibly be thick enough to see ANY benefit in him out on the campaign trail knocking on doors etc?

Fitzerb

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Do I remember Ahern not finding evidence of impropriety when he supposedly went investigating Ray Burke?

I guess it depends on how hard you (want to) look.

Still hoping that you might reply to my post of last night ?. I am keen to understand the facts

sligopark

Just read this - the golf game with Seanie pales into insignificance....

On September 29th, 2008, a momentous event occurred. That evening, four of the most senior executives of Ireland’s two largest high street banks, Dermot Gleeson and Eugene Sheehy of Allied Irish Bank (AIB) and Brian Goggin and Richard Burrows of Bank of Ireland (BOI), called to Government Buildings for a hastily convened meeting with the Prime Minister, Brian Cowen, and the Minister for Finance, Brian Lenihan. Also present was the Irish Attorney-General, Paul Gallagher.

The banksters were frantic. As the property bubble was beginning to burst, their main rival, Anglo Irish, was in serious trouble and the huge loss of liquidity could bring down the country’s entire financial system. Like Anglo Irish, AIB and BOI also had massive exposure to the developers and all were in danger of imminent collapse. The banksters implored the Government to do something, immediately, before the money markets opened the following morning.

Having received such stark news from the banksters, Cowen and Lenihan knew they had to move quickly and decisively. They would have to act, and be seen to act, without bias and without favouring any special interest groups. Their first duty was to ensure the welfare of the nation as a whole and to safeguard the financial interests of all the Irish people.

But in this they failed utterly. One special interest group, the banksters, prevailed spectacularly over the interests of the Irish people. How did the banksters manage to wield such inordinate influence over crucial governmental policy?

A key disturbing fact about this meeting was never commented upon in the mainstream media. On the government side of the table sat Paul Gallagher, the Attorney-General, legal adviser to the Irish Government. On the banksters’ side of the table sat Dermot Gleeson, the AIB chairman and himself a former Irish Attorney-General. But, apart from both men holding the senior law office of the land, a more sinister connection between them remained undisclosed. They were both Bilderbergers.

For those who haven’t heard of the Bilderbergers, they are a brotherhood of unelected international banksters, corporatists, politicians, and others who meet secretly every year to formulate and manipulate world policy in finance, economics, trade, and any other area that they can control for their own selfish, globalist interests.

It may well be that the presence of the two Bilderbergers, Gleeson and Gallagher, was just a coincidence but, considering such incredibly high stakes, it can be argued that Gallagher’s attendance as Attorney-General at such a crucial meeting generated a monumental conflict of interest. His Bilderberger connection clearly compromised him as legal adviser to the Irish Government, especially when his Bilderberger pal, Gleeson, was about to be on the receiving end of a whopping government bailout.

After a surprisingly short discussion with some members of the cabinet, the Attorney-General, and top civil servants, Cowen and Lenihan arrived at an ominous decision. They decided that the Government would guarantee all the liabilities of six Irish banks – not just customer and interbank deposits but also the full exposure of all bondholders! This amounted to some 450 billion euro, an astronomical figure which, if ever called upon, would destroy the country, and has.
……

Another fiasco in the making, the brainchild of Lenihan and Cowen, is NAMA (National Asset Management Agency), set up to restore the banks’ balance sheets by buying their toxic loans to the tune of some €54 billion of taxpayers’ money.
…..

But Cowen and Lenihan seemed not to be focussed on what was good and efficacious for the people of Ireland but on how to save a few criminal banksters from incurring gigantic losses.

Before the bank guarantees, Ireland had a manageable sovereign debt. But after taking on the private debts of reckless, fraudulent banksters Cowen and Lenihan drove Ireland into insolvency. Interest on Irish government bonds rose dramatically and threatened to destabilise the Euro.

Uncertainty about Ireland’s ability to handle its deficit caused unrest in Portuguese and Spanish bond markets. There were concerns too about Belgium and Italy. The EU, fearful that panic and contagion would spread and collapse the Euro, bullied the Irish Government into taking a joint EU/IMF bailout. The high placed members of the self-serving Brussels elite were willing to impose hardship and needless austerity upon the people of Ireland in order to save their precious Euro and to preserve their positions of opulence and power.

The Irish economy per se did not need a bailout, but Irish banks did. The IMF does not lend to banks but only to sovereign countries. (That way, they can force a country to bleed its taxpayers to get their money back.) Cowen and Lenihan then proceeded to sell the idea of an EU/IMF loan to the country as a ‘rescue package’ for the Irish nation. This was a complete lie. It was a rescue package mainly for German, British, and French banks who had recklessly and greedily loaned billions to Irish banks during the Celtic Tiger boom.

David McWilliams, Irish economist, broadcaster, and writer, says of the IMF, ‘It is not here to bail us out; it is here to bail [the banks] out. The bailout is a bailout for the banks of Germany and France and the Irish taxpayer foots the bill. It is that simple. And where will the EU and IMF money come from? It will be borrowed from the very investment banks that will be bailed out. So they will get interest payments from us, in order that we pay for their mistakes.’

This view is echoed by Dr. Constantin Gurdgiev, adjunct lecturer in Finance at Trinity College, Dublin, who likens the ECB/IMF bailout to ‘corporate welfare’ (as opposed to social welfare). ‘It’s worse than corporate welfare, it’s corporate welfare with a massive moral hazard loaded on top. This is an undemocratic, corporatist transfer of wealth from ordinary citizens to a tiny group of people: bank bondholders…’

Just who are these precious bondholders that Cowen and Lenihan would bind and bankrupt the country in order to make up their ‘gambling’ losses?
Senator and presidential hopeful David Norris tried to read out their names under parliamentary privilege in the Irish Senate but was quickly silenced. It seems that Cowen and Lenihan and the Irish Government do not want the people to know that they have been put into debt slavery for the benefit of some of the wealthiest, most fraudulent banksters in the world. The names of these bondholders are now a matter of public record, thanks to investigative journalists like Guido Fawkes (www.order-order.com).
Some of the more familiar names among the four score or so major bondholders are Goldman Sachs, one of the most despised banks on Wall Street whose name is synonymous with greed, sleaze, and fraud. Max Keiser, broadcaster and former broker & options trader, says, ‘Goldman Sachs are scum. I mean that’s the bottom line.’

Keiser continues, with remarkable candour, ‘Just remember, Hank Paulson held Congress hostage, took them in the back room and said give us $700 billion or we’re gonna crash the market. He’s an arsonist; he’s an outlaw. And yet he’s given praise. If you go down the list, they’re all Goldman Sachs scum, whether it’s Hank Paulson, whether it’s Geithner…you know Geithner has very strong ties to Goldman Sachs…and of course all these banking bonuses are paid out to all their cronies who are Goldman Sachs scum.’

Another Anglo Irish Bank bondholder is the Rothschilds Bank, Zurich; the Rothschild family are reputed to have owned half the wealth of Europe a century and a half ago – how much do they own now? And most of the remaining bondholders are worth an accumulation of some twenty trillion euro. An Irish default would involve such an insignificant fraction of their wealth that it would hardly cause them to raise their eyebrows. Yet Cowen and Lenihan forced crippling debt upon the Irish people for many years to come in order to repay the banksters every single cent of their reckless investments.

One great irony amid all this debt and despair is the great wealth recently discovered in the gas fields off the west coast of Ireland. The Corrib gas field alone is reckoned to be worth well over €420 billion, enough to pay off all of Ireland’s debts and make the country vastly rich. According to the Petroleum Affairs Division there is even more gas and oil off the west coast, perhaps as much as 13 trillion euro or beyond, enough to make millionaires of every man, woman, and child in Ireland.

What did the Irish Government do with this €420 billion windfall from the Corrib field? They gave it away to Royal Dutch Shell for nothing. Yes, nothing! In an incredible move, the government cut the State’s share from 50% to zero on all its offshore oil and gas and abolished all royalties.

Why would they do such a crazy thing?

For an answer to that you’ll have to ask the then minister, Ray Burke, who was later convicted and jailed for political corruption on other matters.

Royal Dutch Shell, with its monthly revenues fluctuating between $25 billion and $45 billion, certainly doesn’t need the money as much as the Irish people do. Royal Dutch Shell is a key Bilderberg asset; its principal shareholder is Queen Beatrix of Holland, a long-time member of Bilderberg which was founded by her father, Prince Bernhard, a former officer of Hitler’s SS. Giving these plutocrats billions, and perhaps trillions, in oil and gas for absolutely nothing is criminally obscene and utterly enraging. These energy resources rightfully belong to the Irish people and it’s not for individual politicians, whether corrupt or incompetent, to give them away for nothing.

Looking forward, there will soon be a new government in Ireland. It is now time for the Irish people to take a firm stand. In the coming election campaign they must warn incoming government hopefuls that there HAS to be radical change. The criminal pledges of an outgoing government of traitors MUST be dismantled and consigned to the trash can, along with their authors. The people will not stand for more of the same old bullsh1t gombeen politics; they are in no mood for mealy-mouthedness or ineffectual tinkering with a failed system. They demand nothing less than clear, decisive, and even ruthless change. They demand leaders of integrity, innovation, and courage. And they demand a decent living for themselves, their children, and future generations yet unborn. There can be no going back!

ilovesleep

sligopark - where did you read that.
Jesus fcuk all christ almighty! We already knew the bailout was for the banks really. No hope for this place.

sligopark

ilovesleep wrote: »

sligopark - where did you read that.
Jesus fcuk all christ almighty! We already knew the bailout was for the banks really.

we did but perhaps not the why and how - and wash your mouth out

Keep on topic. I've deleted a fair few posts that have nothing to do with what we're talking about here. This thread is called
" Brian Cowen, Sean Fitzpatrick, Golf and the Gardai"
If you want to start a thread about walking out of your job, feel free to do, but it has nothing to do with this one.

Sligopark, less of the backseat moderation. If you have a problem with a post, please use the report button.

jmayo

SB-08 wrote: »

This Prime Time is very damaging for Cowen. Well done RTE for once. That report in particular but when the Minister, probably his closest ally at the moment, Tony Killeen clearly doesn't even believe his own waffle. He was asked 3 questions by Miriam and not one of them was answered. Just typical FF waffle as per usual. How I wish Vincent Browne had have been the interviewer - he would have gone on and on and on asking the questions. Miriam did well though. This whole thing stinks to the high heavens. Why are there so few senior ministers speaking about this? Why have the three main leader contenders (Hannifin, Martin and Lenny) not expressed confidence in Clowen and his statement? And why has Cowen himself not made any public appearance to discuss this matter and answer these questions, most of which were totally ignored in his so called explanation.

What are the chances of Clowen being ousted as FF leader before the election but remaining Taoiseach? At this stage for FF to go into the election with him as leader would be pure insanity. Who on earth among them could possibly be thick enough to see ANY benefit in him out on the campaign trail knocking on doors etc?

The three primary candidates for cowens job are keeping their mouths shut, because at this stage they know he is completly toxic to their long term asperations.
How would they stand up in debate in 7 or 8 years time and answer fact they backed cowen till the last ?

The only ones now publicly backing him are the oens retiring or the complete eejits.

If ff go with any of the current cabinet or juniors in cabinet as leader then this st** can always be thrown at them.

Fitzerb wrote: »

Still hoping that you might reply to my post of last night ?. I am keen to understand the facts

Care to answer this ...
Do you believe brian cowen when he claims that even though he was for 7 hours in the company of the chairman of a the third biggest bank in the state, that he did not discuss the fact that the bank was on the brink of collapse due to loss of desposits, failure to attract investors, tumbling share price, although previously the same chairman, bank's ceo and board had asked for his help ?

Do you believe him and why ?

Here's some of Cowens "Teammates" in the golf tournament:

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2011/01/11/the-croniest-golf-team-youll-see-this-year/

Peter Butler, Group Head of Banking, Anglo-Irish Bank;

Brian Cowen, Minister of Finance.

Laurence Crowley, Governor of the Bank of Ireland.

David Drumm, CEO of Anglo Irish Bank

Bernard McNamara, Managing Director of Michael McNamara.

Derek Quinlan, Chairman of Quinlan Asset Management.

Official article: http://www.us-irelandalliance.org/wmspage.cfm?parm1=470#more

AlekSmart

Here's some of Cowens "Teammates" in the golf tournament:

Papa Smut,do we have a list of the caddies,ball-boy`s and any enthusiastic spectators...be particularly interested in names in Irish !!!!

Just noticed we`re talking Golf 2005 here...ah lad`s lad`s give the man a break !!!

Seth Brundle

Madam's editorial today is good.

More trouble for Mr Cowen
BRIAN COWEN is experiencing political death by a thousand cuts. Disclosures concerning previously concealed contacts with Seán FitzPatrick in the months prior to the Government’s decision to nationalise Anglo Irish Bank have reignited concerns about his leadership inside and outside of Fianna Fáil. With a general election only months away, the reopening of controversy over a decision that heaped banking debts on the taxpayer and invoked a history of crony capitalism has sent shudders through the Coalition parties.

Withholding information from the Dáil may not be a resigning matter. It does, however, raise questions of judgment, accountability and transparency. When Mr Cowen decided to conceal material concerning Mr FitzPatrick’s contacts with him, both as minister for finance and as Taoiseach, he did so for political reasons. The Government was under immense pressure at the time because some economists argued that Anglo Irish Bank should not have been rescued because it was not an essential part of the banking system. Opposition parties suggested a sweetheart deal. Confirmation of those contacts would have – as now – fuelled suspicions that Fianna Fáil had looked after its banking friends.

Green Party leader John Gormley is hanging on in office, hoping for the passage of his climate change legislation along with the Finance Bill. But, as an assertive campaign by the Irish Farmers’ Association against climate change controls gets into its stride and targets Fianna Fáil Senators and rural TDs in particular, that prospect looks increasingly remote.

Having called “time” on the Government because of the public’s loss of confidence in its handling of the fiscal crisis and the subsequent bailout by the EU/IMF, the FitzPatrick episode represents just another stone in a deeply uncomfortable road for the Green Party. Mr Gormley made the point that Mr Cowen should have made the details public when asked. Then, having contacted the Department of Finance and found no evidence the Taoiseach had been involved in inappropriate behaviour, he deferred final judgment until after Mr Cowen answers questions in the Dáil today. It was a selective defence. But it was as much as Mr Cowen received from his own colleagues who were appalled by the notion that Fianna Fáil’s relationship with bankers and developers might dominate the election campaign.

The Opposition parties are taking full advantage of Mr Cowen’s difficulties. Dates have been deliberately confused to add spice to the matter. But their assertions of bad behaviour have involved frankness rather than fraud. This Dáil’s final session will open with the focus on Fianna Fáil’s unhealthy relationship with bankers and builders. It amounts to the party’s worst political nightmare. Fine Gael, the Labour Party and Sinn Féin will compete in their efforts to cause maximum damage and to offer credible alternatives. It is difficult to see where the controversy can go from there, other than to make life even more miserable for those Fianna Fáil backbenchers who despair of Mr Cowen’s leadership and the lack of nerve of his challengers.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0112/1224287329911.html
She is right though.
How many colleagues have publicly come out in his defence so far?
However, the greens are backing his story yet again and this is unlikely to be his last day. (why they have to wait until later for his speech in order to make a decision is beyond me - do they think the didn't tell them everything?)


I look with interest to hearing what he has to day in the Dáil later today.

ilovesleep

The whole thing stinks. Dont believe cowen

march 08 - there was a phone call
april 08 - they dined together
may 08 - bertie leaves (he knew all too well just how sersious things were then) Cowen did too.
July 08 - they golfed together.
September 08 - blanket bank guarantee which sank this country slowly and brought us into the hands of the imf/eu.

ei.sdraob

People

I am in no way defending Cowan (yee know how little love i have for FF :P)

But could he be telling the truth? since if himself and Seanie where plotting then Seanie would have spilled the beans by now as he is like a cornered rat now. Thats unless this whole thing goes much deeper.

Just thinking since there is no honour among thieves....

Biggins

ei.sdraob wrote: »

People

I am in no way defending Cowan (yee know how little love i have for FF :P)

But could he be telling the truth? since if himself and Seanie where plotting then Seanie would have spilled the beans by now as he is like a cornered rat now. Thats unless this whole thing goes much deeper.

Just thinking since there is no honour among thieves....

Nine hours together in one day alone and they didn't discuss bank business?
It stretches the limits of incredibility!

ei.sdraob

Biggins wrote: »

Nine hours together in one day alone and they didn't discuss bank business?
It stretches the limits of incredibility!

Well thats the thing, if they did discuss the bank gambling operation in question

then why is Seanie not spilling the milk (and creaming in money from interviews) on the media? that sort of info could be used by Seanie to blackmail Cowen (if hes not already doing it)

Biggins

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Well thats the thing, if they did discuss the bank gambling operation in question

then why is Seanie not spilling the milk (and creaming in money from interviews) on the media? that sort of info could be used by Seanie to blackmail Cowen (if hes not already doing it)

Supposing I'm up for a raking over the coals for a bank I might have done some things wrong with.
Add to that I hint in a book there is more that has not being revealed but in said book, can show that I am still a force to be reckoned with and can do some more damage to individuals...

Now others are out to get me. I know this. Some might be looking for a possible escape goat! What would they further fear if I was to be hauled up into a court room dock and start opening my mouth further?
Maybe there is the fear I might do a deal with an incoming government to reveal even more, if I though the state wanted my head on the block/dock!
Before that would happen, would present heads be so in a rush to get me into a dock or show enough of a case to say I should be perused further?

Best not to give my full hand away before the game is over!

Mr.Micro

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Well thats the thing, if they did discuss the bank gambling operation in question

then why is Seanie not spilling the milk (and creaming in money from interviews) on the media? that sort of info could be used by Seanie to blackmail Cowen (if hes not already doing it)

Simply because he is keeping his cards close to his chest in case legal actions are taken against him. Biffo cannot even see he inherited the poisoned chalice from Ahern and he is the fall guy for the whole debacle....even now he is either incredibly naive, stupid or plain thick to realize it.