Brian Cowen, Sean Fitzpatrick, Golf and the Gardai

Seth Brundle

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Simply because he is keeping his cards close to his chest in case legal actions are taken against him. Biffo cannot even see he inherited the poisoned chalice from Ahern and he is the fall guy for the whole debacle....even now he is either incredibly naive, stupid or plain thick to realize it.

Cowen was the Minister for Finance as of December 2004. He wasn't inherited any poisoned chalice, he simply inherited the remains of McCreevey's mess (and was more then happy to do so).

SB-08

Just watching Kenny's questioning of Clowen now - it disgusts me how utterly useless Kenny is. :mad: He actually makes Clowen look good. Why is he out of breath? Why is his entire performance like a nervous child giving a speech in front of a school assembly? It is so frustrating to have a party with I would say over half a dozen confident and credible performers have such a baffoon as leader. Kenny should be nailing Cowen left right and centre around the dail but instead he reads his script sounding as though it is the first time he has seen it. :rolleyes:

Biggins

SB-08 wrote: »

Just watching Kenny's questioning of Clowen now - it disgusts me how utterly useless Kenny is. :mad: He actually makes Clowen look good. Why is he out of breath? Why is his entire performance like a nervous child giving a speech in front of a school assembly? It is so frustrating to have a party with I would say over half a dozen confident and credible performers have such a baffoon as leader. Kenny should be nailing Cowen left right and centre around the dail but instead he reads his script sounding as though it is the first time he has seen it. :rolleyes:

I note Kenny is staying calm and trying to ask questions but being bullied about time limits when Cowen was allowed to have carte blanch as regards such time limits!
Let not forget there is FF man acting in the top Dail centre chair.

ei.sdraob

Biggins wrote: »

Supposing I'm up for a raking over the coals for a bank I might have done some things wrong with.
Add to that I hint in a book there is more that has not being revealed but in said book, can show that I am still a force to be reckoned with and can do some more damage to individuals...

Now others are out to get me. I know this. Some might be looking for a possible escape goat! What would they further fear if I was to be hauled up into a court room dock and start opening my mouth further?
Maybe there is the fear I might do a deal with an incoming government to reveal even more, if I though the state wanted my head on the block/dock!
Before that would happen, would present heads be so in a rush to get me into a dock or show enough of a case to say I should be perused further?

Best not to give my full hand away before the game is over!

Maybe you right, its just if there is a conspiracy then it would be very hard to keep secret, as is usually the case with conspiracies. Thats my line of thinking, once again I am not defending anyone here just trying to get into the mindset of Seanie.


As for the book being released well it seems hes following in the footsteps of Bertie, a great way to earn money while avoiding tax :P just saying out loud....

Laminations

Cowen seems to have problems with recollection, using a trick from the book of Bertie.

His previous story re the Anglo dinner was that the bank was not discussed, now he is saying he cannot recall, that maybe the bank was discussed.

SeaFields

Biggins wrote: »

I note Kenny is staying calm and trying to ask questions but being bullied about time limits when Cowen was allowed to have carte blanch as regards such time limits!
Let not forget there is FF man acting in the top Dail centre chair.

I noticed that too and when it was mentioned by someone on front bench of FG, the CC said the deputy would be asked to leave the house if he said it again.

Biggins

Gilmore did well to put things across with his questioning.

born2bwild

Cowen looks rattled. He hasn't answered Gimore's question on his state of knowledge.

SeaFields

Cowan is doing very well to talk for this length of time without saying anything or answering any question.

Biggins

SeaFields wrote: »

Cowan is doing very well to talk for this length of time without saying anything or answering any question.

Aye, so far he has yet to answer direct, the actual questions put to him.
He's just going on about "common goods!"

Now sat down and not answered!

SeaFields

ha ha Gilmore has pulled him up on not answering. fair play.

the groutch

Biggins wrote: »

Gilmore did well to put things across with his questioning.

I liked his spin on it that it was incompetent of him NOT to talk about the banks during the round of golf

Biggins

LOL Cowen "I can only tell you the truth"

It would be nice if he could even answer the questions first!

Liam Byrne

SB-08 wrote: »

Just watching Kenny's questioning of Clowen now - it disgusts me how utterly useless Kenny is. :mad: He actually makes Clowen look good. Why is he out of breath? Why is his entire performance like a nervous child giving a speech in front of a school assembly? It is so frustrating to have a party with I would say over half a dozen confident and credible performers have such a baffoon as leader. Kenny should be nailing Cowen left right and centre around the dail but instead he reads his script sounding as though it is the first time he has seen it. :rolleyes:

Probably fair points except for the bit that I bolded, which isn't actually possible anymore.

the groutch

the look on Eamonn Ryan's face is priceless, looks like he wants to "do a Gogarty", and tell the Taoiseach to shut the f*** up

baldbear

Here's what Cowen really means--

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXoNE14U_zM

Biggins

It certainly very weird that a phone call was made all the way from Ireland to Malaysia - on a busy day for Cowen, St Patricks day, from Irelands biggest failing bank man - and no banking details were not further discussed relating to the Anglo situation!

What was Fiztpatrick ring up so importantly for? To check on the weather over there?

Maybe Eastenders was being discussed again!

ilovesleep

Another commentary on politics.ie

baldbear

Who's the guy behind Cowen in red tie? Laughing at what Cowen said about Caoimhghin.

NickDrake

Cowen is a disgrace to this country.

He may say he did not discuss Anglo with Seany but what kind of negligence man is he for not discussing it??

Sums up FF and Cowen.

If anyone votes FF in the election (should it ever arrive) they should be named and shamed.

later12

NickDrake wrote: »

If anyone votes FF in the election (should it ever arrive) they should be named and shamed.

No, they really shouldn't. The right to a secret ballot is enshrined in the constitution for a very good reason.

Mr.Micro

later10 wrote: »

No, they really shouldn't. The right to a secret ballot is enshrined in the constitution for a very good reason.

Maybe we should make exceptions just this once?

NickDrake

later10 wrote: »

No, they really shouldn't. The right to a secret ballot is enshrined in the constitution for a very good reason.

So you will be voting for FF?

If anyone knows anyone voting for them they should make everyone aware of it and name and shame them.

People that will vote FF will be idiots and do not deserve anyones respect.

later12

NickDrake wrote: »

Originally Posted by later10
No, they really shouldn't. The right to a secret ballot is enshrined in the constitution for a very good reason.

So you will be voting for FF?

Wow, serious logic there. I'm reminding you of the constitutional position; if anything the principle of secret ballot is to our benefit (and traditionally, one could argue, to Fianna Fáil's loss). I'm sure lots of incoming parties would only love to know who voted for them and who didn't, and could use it to their favour accordingly. FF included. Pointing that out does not mean that I will be voting FF, which, by the way, I won't be.

jmayo

ei.sdraob wrote: »

People

I am in no way defending Cowan (yee know how little love i have for FF :P)

But could he be telling the truth? since if himself and Seanie where plotting then Seanie would have spilled the beans by now as he is like a cornered rat now. Thats unless this whole thing goes much deeper.

Just thinking since there is no honour among thieves....

Ah ei.sdraob you disappoint me.
seanis is flexing his muscles and letting it be known that he can sing like a canary if he wants to.
Of course there are people that would not want that to come to pass.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Well thats the thing, if they did discuss the bank gambling operation in question

then why is Seanie not spilling the milk (and creaming in money from interviews) on the media? that sort of info could be used by Seanie to blackmail Cowen (if hes not already doing it)

That is the most salient point to all of this.
There are people in certain positions who never want the full story to be exposed hence the night of the guarantee doesn't appear to have been minuted.
Note the Attorney General was also at that meeting.

Yet over in the states there appears to be full knowledge of all that transpired the weekend that they tried to save the ff favourite, Lehman Brothers.

Biggins wrote: »

...
Add to that I hint in a book there is more that has not being revealed but in said book, can show that I am still a force to be reckoned with and can do some more damage to individuals...

Bingo give the man a prize.

Biggins wrote: »

Now others are out to get me. I know this. Some might be looking for a possible escape goat! What would they further fear if I was to be hauled up into a court room dock and start opening my mouth further?
Maybe there is the fear I might do a deal with an incoming government to reveal even more, if I though the state wanted my head on the block/dock!
Before that would happen, would present heads be so in a rush to get me into a dock or show enough of a case to say I should be perused further?

Best not to give my full hand away before the game is over!

Jaysus you are as cynical as me.

SeaFields wrote: »

Cowan is doing very well to talk for this length of time without saying anything or answering any question.

Ah he learned from the master.

later10 wrote: »

No, they really shouldn't. The right to a secret ballot is enshrined in the constitution for a very good reason.

Is this the only comment you can make at this point, any defense of cowen's Dáil answers or sorry lack of answers ?

NickDrake wrote: »

So you will be voting for FF?

I guess you haven't been monitoring the threads around here of late ?

NickDrake wrote: »

If anyone knows anyone voting for them they should make everyone aware of it and name and shame them.

People that will vote FF will be idiots and do not deserve anyones respect.

Careful now, you might upset some people around here.

later12

jmayo wrote: »

Originally Posted by later10
No, they really shouldn't. The right to a secret ballot is enshrined in the constitution for a very good reason.

Is this the only comment you can make at this point, any defense of cowen's Dáil answers or sorry lack of answers ?

Why would i be defending Cowen? I have already criticised him, in fact. Otherwise, I merely responded to this point

Originally Posted by NickDrake
If anyone votes FF in the election (should it ever arrive) they should be named and shamed.

Seems pretty clear cut to me. Shouldn't be done, can't be done.

ei.sdraob

jmayo wrote: »

Ah ei.sdraob you disappoint me..

sorry

It's just I am not the "conspiracy theory" type and to be honest I don't think FF are capable of organising a piss up at brewery never mind plotting the downfall of the country during a game of golf.

The way I see if this did happen then its only a matter of time before we find out, thats if Cowen and FF are not being blackmailed, tho it might explain why Seanie got off so easily since he might know about few skeletons in the closet, hmm ...

sligopark

Acting Taoiseach Denies Leader's Questions took place!

The acting Taoiseach Brian Cowen today faced blistering cross examination during leaders’ questions in the Dáil over his contacts with disgraced banker Sean FitzPatrick.

Speaking on the plinth afterwards Mr Coweringunderlies denied that any questioning of any nature took place. “I simply spent a number of hours in Leinster House in the company of others going forward. At no point in time were any questions asked of me, nor were any explanations offered. I refute you. I never asked to be born. I refute you all.”

Making sure to look indignant and wounded, Mr Cantbetruthful denied any impropriety on the part of Fianna Fail, insisting that the organisation is a society of friends with it's roots in charitable work, waste disposal and the importation of olive oil.

Pressed by reporters Mr Cowpig said that he was going to “…hold my breath until yiz all f_ck off”.

....

Fitzerb

jmayo wrote: »

The three primary candidates for cowens job are keeping their mouths shut, because at this stage they know he is completly toxic to their long term asperations.
How would they stand up in debate in 7 or 8 years time and answer fact they backed cowen till the last ?

The only ones now publicly backing him are the oens retiring or the complete eejits.

If ff go with any of the current cabinet or juniors in cabinet as leader then this st** can always be thrown at them.



Care to answer this ...
Do you believe brian cowen when he claims that even though he was for 7 hours in the company of the chairman of a the third biggest bank in the state, that he did not discuss the fact that the bank was on the brink of collapse due to loss of desposits, failure to attract investors, tumbling share price, although previously the same chairman, bank's ceo and board had asked for his help ?

Do you believe him and why ?

Firstly, unlike some here (Liam Byrne) I am 100% prepared to answer any question asked of me if I am taking part in the “debate”.
My answer is total speculation because like all here I don’t know for fact what was discussed or not discussed. For me one or two pieces of information are missing to make a good judgement call.
The most important piece of info missing for me is " was this a golf outing or a game of golf". There is a very significant difference. If I want a private discussion with someone I would invite them for a game of golf. If I put a team into a golf outing I know that there will be hundreds around the place and it would be difficult to hold a private conversation.
RTE reported that the event was a “golf outing” The answers today would also suggest that there was a significant number of people at the dinner , again suggesting it was a golf outing but it is hard to establish which it was. What is safe to assume is that it was arranged by Drury who is a very close friend of both. Did they discuss the business? I would safely say yes that there had to be some degree of discussion regarding the economy and the general way things were going. However I truly doubt that they discussed this in any great detail and I have no doubt that they did not agree or even discuss the bail out and here’s why I think so.
They were on the course for five hours. That’s a normal amount of time to play a round. When you play golf you spend at least half the time on your own. If you think about it, you stand away from the player once on the green and you are always on your own taking your shot. At best they were together for 90 minutes in intervals of 5 minutes (assuming there was no delay on the course) so to discuss the details of the bailout were impossible, the other and more important reason is that neither Fitzpatrick or Cowan would have a third person (witness) present if that discussion took place., regardless of how friendly they all were. You can always deny a one to one discussion but you can never deny a discussion if a witness was present and history has proven that the witness to a “discussion” can be very damaging. Even when the most powerful people of the world get together they will always have a period of face to face time for discussions and empty the room of civil servants’ and agents. So I would think that they discussed business but at a very high level.
We know that there was nothing secret about the meeting or dinner, I mean Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin
Met both Cowan and Fitzpatrick but didn’t recognise Fitzpatrick. Really observant of him.
Since the driver attended the dinner I doubt there was any discussion over the table. But again we don’t know if they had time on their own at some stage during the dinner.
All that said what I find totally unbelievable is that Cowan agreed to play a game of golf with Fitzpatrick at a time when everyone knew his bank was struggling it was total stupidity. In his position he should have known that Fitzpatrick was damaged goods.
So there is my honest assessment of what I think happened and no doubt since it does not condemn him you will ridicule it. On a lighter note I am not surprised Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin didn’t recognise Fitzpatrick. Criminals don’t usually rat on each other.

Fitzerb

Biggins wrote: »

It certainly very weird that a phone call was made all the way from Ireland to Malaysia - on a busy day for Cowen, St Patricks day, from Irelands biggest failing bank man - and no banking details were not further discussed relating to the Anglo situation!

What was Fiztpatrick ring up so importantly for? To check on the weather over there?

Maybe Eastenders was being discussed again!

Its recorded (as far as I know) Fitzpatrick rang Cowan to get the NTA to buy Anglo shares as the price was falling to a frightening level. But I think there is another real question here I would like answered.
Did Fitzpatrick ring through Cowans Secretary or had he a direct number for Cowan. Before you speculate the answer is we don’t know as Cowan would have had his private secretary present but the question should be asked.
I have always had the view that Dial Eireann is a charade and despite all the punch and Judy stuff you see on TV that they are all good friends off stage. Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin who publicly condemns Cowan and has not a good word to say about him on TV asks him to have his photo taken with the bride at a wedding in Druids Glenn on the same day that Cowan was golfing with Fitzpatrick. He then says he didn’t recognise Fitzpatrick. I find that hard to believe. Even the children know what Fitzpatrick looks like. Do you believe the Shinner.?