Brian Cowen, Sean Fitzpatrick, Golf and the Gardai

Seth Brundle

Fitzerb wrote: »

He then says he didn’t recognise Fitzpatrick. I find that hard to believe. Even the children know what Fitzpatrick looks like. Do you believe the Shinner.?

I wouldn't have known of him never mind recognised him until the bailout in late 2008.
This golf event occured in the previous July. Should O'Caoláin have known him? I wouldn't have thought so.

Fitzerb

I notice all the lefties are avoiding the role of Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin on this infamous day in Druids Glen. Ó Caoláin was present in Druids Glenn on that day and despite his well stated abhorrence of Cowan whom he publicly stated has sold out the Country that the Shinners have fought and died for He asked Cowan to do him a favour and have his picture taken with the bride. Strange ?
But even stranger is the fact then when asked why he said nothing about Cowan and Fitzpatrick in Druids Glen, Ó Caoláin said that he did not recognise Fitzpatrick. WOW…….. at best he is not very vigilant and worst he probably didn’t want to be asked for a transfer of funds from the Northern Bank. The dogs in the street know Fitzpatrick

Fitzerb

kbannon wrote: »

I wouldn't have known of him never mind recognised him until the bailout in late 2008.
This golf event occured in the previous July. Should O'Caoláin have known him? I wouldn't have thought so.

You joking I take it.
The Shinners know every banker in Ireland, sure haven’t they visited them on many occasions over the years. I can understand the Banker not recognising the Shinner as its difficult to recognise a person if they are wearing a balaclava.

theroad

Fitzerb wrote: »

...So there is my honest assessment of what I think happened and no doubt since it does not condemn him you will ridicule it.

Fair deuce to you mate, I hope you are managing to convince yourself with all that guff, 'cos there's precious little chance of you convincing anyone else...

Fitzerb

theroad wrote: »

Fair deuce to you mate, I hope you are managing to convince yourself with all that guff, 'cos there's precious little chance of you convincing anyone else...

I would be disappointed if I convinced you of anything

Seth Brundle

@ Fitzerb - what is the need to change from the default font?
It is a pain for someone who wants to quote your posts!

Shea O'Meara

Fitzerb wrote: »

And I thought this thread was about to people playing a game of golf and a lot of conspiracy theorists getting their jolly’s from it.
So tell me Liam, what they did they talk about.

Now you claim to have a theory on that....'we're through the looking glass people!'

Fitzerb wrote: »

Did they discuss the business? I would safely say yes that there had to be some degree of discussion regarding the economy and the general way things were going. [/FONT]

So you agree Cowen lied, as he claims they didn't discuss it to any degree.

Fitzerb wrote: »

However I truly doubt that they discussed this in any great detail...

So why are your conclusions that they did discuss it, but not at length, okay, but anyone who previously suggested they discussed it at all was a "dreamer"?

Common sense dictates they discussed finance and banking in some form or other. Cowen says they did not. Both you and I believe that to be untrue.
So the only issue left for debate is if we think that was okay during that period and did it lead to any favouritism or is the act of the two discussing it enough for Cowen to resign as it is at best yet another bungle by the Biffster?

Fitzerb

kbannon wrote: »

@ Fitzerb - what is the need to change from the default font?
It is a pain for someone who wants to quote your posts!

My sincere appoligies. I complete the message in word and paste it.

it was an error on my behalf

Shea O'Meara

Fitzerb wrote: »

I notice all the lefties are avoiding the role of Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin on this infamous day in Druids Glen. Ó Caoláin was present in Druids Glenn on that day and despite his well stated abhorrence of Cowan whom he publicly stated has sold out the Country that the Shinners have fought and died for He asked Cowan to do him a favour and have his picture taken with the bride. Strange ?
But even stranger is the fact then when asked why he said nothing about Cowan and Fitzpatrick in Druids Glen, Ó Caoláin said that he did not recognise Fitzpatrick. WOW…….. at best he is not very vigilant and worst he probably didn’t want to be asked for a transfer of funds from the Northern Bank. The dogs in the street know Fitzpatrick

Stay on message;
Cowen playing golf with him was okay, but O'Caolain not noticing him is somehow outrageous?:rolleyes:

Shea O'Meara

Fitzerb wrote: »

You joking I take it.
The Shinners know every banker in Ireland, sure haven’t they visited them on many occasions over the years. I can understand the Banker not recognising the Shinner as its difficult to recognise a person if they are wearing a balaclava.

And FFail separatists don't even use banks due to the troublesome record keeping:rolleyes:
We could throw pie all night.

raymon

Obvious treason, if you ask me. Nod and wink politics prevailed and our country has been ruined.

Seth Brundle

raymon wrote: »

Obvious treason, if you ask me. Nod and wink politics prevailed and our country has been ruined.

Yes and while that's a massive issue, an even bigger one is that it appears to be still continuing despite the denials by FF apologists.

Fitzerb

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

Now you claim to have a theory on that....'we're through the looking glass people!'


So you agree Cowen lied, as he claims they didn't discuss it to any degree.



So why are your conclusions that they did discuss it, but not at length, okay, but anyone who previously suggested they discussed it at all was a "dreamer"?

Common sense dictates they discussed finance and banking in some form or other. Cowen says they did not. Both you and I believe that to be untrue.
So the only issue left for debate is if we think that was okay during that period and did it lead to any favouritism or is the act of the two discussing it enough for Cowen to resign as it is at best yet another bungle by the Biffster?

You are not reading my post correctly.
I never said I had a theory. I purposely stated that my answer to the question was total speculation as are all the answers here because the “fact” is we don’t know so we can only speculate. But not many here deal in facts. If someone asks me “how is business” and I answer its tough or its great, is that discussing business ? . I don’t believe they discussed business in any great detail. I doubt they discussed the bail out in July 2008 as the crisis real time did not start until Saturday 27th September when Lenihan was telephoned by Jean-Claude Trichet, president of the European Central Bank. He was told to expect an urgent message from Hurley who was head of the Irish Central Bank. That message had been delivered by Jean-Claude Trichet, and it was that European banks were in crisis. Lenihan met with the Central Bank on Sunday and even then was not told how bad the state of the Irish banks were by Hurley. It was only on Monday 28th September when Bank share fell by 48% that the process of bailing out the banks commenced.
On the 30th of September Irish Life and Permanent transferred €4billion to Anglo. Now if Fitzpatrick had done a deal with Cowan on a golf course in July 2008 why would he have a transfer of 4 Billon made to save his bank. He had a bail out deal done according to your thinking.
I am not 100% sure of all the above dates but in my mind it does not add up and please. I don’t follow the populace view as I like to understand the facts if I can get them. I don’t support Cowan either, I think his connection and communication to people is appalling and his performance is the worst ever in our history be it through bad management or bad luck, but I don’t consider him corrupt. Would I vote for him. NO but I would vote for FF if I knew they had a leader who could manage the situation. YES. I cant be any more up front than that

Fitzerb

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

Stay on message;
Cowen playing golf with him was okay, but O'Caolain not noticing him is somehow outrageous?:rolleyes:

You mean dont upset the Shinners, people might start to think

Liam Byrne

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

Stay on message;
Cowen playing golf with him was okay, but O'Caolain not noticing him is somehow outrageous?:rolleyes:

Sure maybe Cowen didn't recognise him either ? It's been a few years since the Galway Tent was exposed, and given Cowen's Ahern-style memory loss, that's surely the most straightforward and understandable reason for the whole misunderstanding ?

Seth Brundle

Cowen has put it on the record that it was a social event.
The tainiste said that it was a fundraiser.

Now Alan Gray (a Director of the Central Bank appointed by Mr. Cowen as Finance Minister in 2007 and a board member of the Financial Regulator) has said on RTE that he was invited to the dineer which was organised to provide independent ideas to stimulate economic growth and to increase employment in Ireland. There was no discussion of Anglo. The discussion was on promoting new small indiginous firms and ways of attracting new investment to Ireland.

Since when is a jobs forum a social fundraising event?

Scofflaw

Fitzerb wrote:

Firstly, unlike some here (Liam Byrne) I am 100% prepared to answer any question asked of me if I am taking part in the “debate”.

Fitzerb, desist from attacking other posters. Any necessity for a second warning will result in an infraction, then a ban.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Fitzerb

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Sure maybe Cowen didn't recognise him either ? It's been a few years since the Galway Tent was exposed, and given Cowen's Ahern-style memory loss, that's surely the most straightforward and understandable reason for the whole misunderstanding ?

Ahh your back. I am still waiting on you to post the facts that you promised to do so many moons ago about your last post that contained a list of non factual accounts. I wonder why you have not posted the answer ?
By the way try stay on the topic we are not talking about Galway or Ahern

Fitzerb

kbannon wrote: »

Cowen has put it on the record that it was a social event.
The tainiste said that it was a fundraiser.

Now Alan Gray (a Director of the Central Bank appointed by Mr. Cowen as Finance Minister in 2007 and a board member of the Financial Regulator) has said on RTE that he was invited to the dineer which was organised to provide independent ideas to stimulate economic growth and to increase employment in Ireland. There was no discussion of Anglo. The discussion was on promoting new small indiginous firms and ways of attracting new investment to Ireland.

Since when is a jobs forum a social fundraising event?

And thats my point. We need clarity if this was an Outing (usually a fund raiser) or a private game of golf. That is a serious question that requires an answer.

Seth Brundle

Fitzerb wrote: »

And thats my point. We need clarity if this was an Outing (usually a fund raiser) or a private game of golf. That is a serious question that requires an answer.

But the person that you appear to be vehemently defending should have provided these details in the Dáil today and not left them to be aired on RTE afterwards.
Cowen says that the event was one thing. His deputy claims that it was another. Now we are being told that it was something completely different.
Yet again we are not getting an honest straight story from FF and are drip fed some rubbish that yet again nobody (except the FF apologists and the greens) seem to believe.

Still, going by the rumours, the revolt has begun and your incompetent leader is about to get knifed by one of two groups. Unfortunately, his replacement will presumably be as incompetent and just as tainted.

Fitzerb

kbannon wrote: »

But the person that you appear to be vehemently defending should have provided these details in the Dáil today and not left them to be aired on RTE afterwards.
Cowen says that the event was one thing. His deputy claims that it was another. Now we are being told that it was something completely different.
Yet again we are not getting an honest straight story from FF and are drip fed some rubbish that yet again nobody (except the FF apologists and the greens) seem to believe.

Still, going by the rumours, the revolt has begun and your incompetent leader is about to get knifed by one of two groups. Unfortunately, his replacement will presumably be as incompetent and just as tainted.

I am not vehemently defending him , I think he is poor as a leader and have stated that but I have a very strong opinion that unless people debate the facts you never get the solution. I have no doubt he will be knifed, Tell me the party leader who wasnt. Its goes with the job.
Where do u see this revolt bringing us and who do you see leading it ?
Thats a real question and I would be interested in your answer.

lynski

maybe it has been asked, i have not read the entire thread, but if he did not discuss the banking crisis, clearly looming, why the hell not? he was finance minister, surely if he has this group together it should have been the only topic of conversation? if he had to go golfing with every chairman of every bank to get info then why didn't he?
it shows deep incompetence that he did not discuss it and even more that he did not manage to come up with a plausible reason for spending 7hrs in the company of bankers if not for work.
oh who are the 12% who still trust them and how can they be stopped?

Seth Brundle

Fitzerb wrote: »

I am not vehemently defending him , I think he is poor as a leader and have stated

You defend FF. In doing so, you are defending the leader that they are standing by.

Fitzerb wrote: »

that but I have a very strong opinion that unless people debate the facts you never get the solution.

Your leader won't give us the facts by all accounts.
We've been lied to time and time again by senior cabinet members regarding the bailout and the reasons behind it.
We're being continually told various reasons other than the truth behind the economic collapse.
Lets start hearing some facts from those supposed to be in charge. No? Why not - could it be because they are involved in our downfall somehow?

Fitzerb wrote: »

I have no doubt he will be knifed, Tell me the party leader who wasnt. Its goes with the job.

I couldn't give a toss who gets the job as FF leader as long as they never get elected again.
I would rather the MRLP at this point and would trust them to do a much better job that Bertie, Cowen and the rest of the gangsters who have bankrupted this island.

Fitzerb wrote: »

Where do u see this revolt bringing us and who do you see leading it ?
Thats a real question and I would be interested in your answer.

What us? FF hasn't cared about an us (unless they are referring to themselves) for a long time. Haven't you read any newspapers over the last decade or so?
While I would like and enjoy seeing Cowen's political career destroyed, I don't believe that there is anyone within the ranks of FF who isn't tainted by the corruption, cronyism, greed, etc. that has dirtied politiccs here for far too long.
Hopefully FF RIP.
And before you say it, I'm not associated with any particular political organisation. However, I do know who I don't want.

Shea O'Meara

Fitzerb wrote: »

You mean dont upset the Shinners, people might start to think

More, don't be hypocritical.

Mind you if some people began to think, no sensible person could be 100% behind one party 100% of the time even when they agree their party screwed up royaly, but continue to support them over the well being of their country.

Shea O'Meara

Fitzerb wrote: »

You are not reading my post correctly.

You said it was likely they discussed it. Cowen said they didn't at all. So how little you believe they discussed it still makes you in disagreement with Cowen's denial.
That's all I took from your post.

Fitzerb wrote: »

I never said I had a theory. I purposely stated that my answer to the question was total speculation as are all the answers here because the “fact” is we don’t know so we can only speculate. But not many here deal in facts.

You're playing with words here. Everybody on here will admit not knowing for a fact what was discussed. We are all, (you included) speculating.
If we, (you & I) believe, speculate if you will, that Cowen must have had some form of discussion on finances, regardless to what level, our shared theory is that Cowen is lying.

Fitzerb wrote: »

If someone asks me “how is business” and I answer its tough or its great, is that discussing business ?

Yes, but not so much that I'd have an issue with it.
I don't believe two people in their positions/roles, at that time, did not discuss it at a greater length.

Fitzerb wrote: »

Would I vote for him. NO but I would vote for FF if I knew they had a leader who could manage the situation. YES. I cant be any more up front than that

If you truly believe the FFail separatist movement is coloured by one captain at the helm and they do good work, of couse vote for them, as is your right. My your god go with you.

melekalikimaka

kbannon wrote: »

You defend FF. In doing so, you are defending the leader that they are standing by.
Your leader won't give us the facts by all accounts.
We've been lied to time and time again by senior cabinet members regarding the bailout and the reasons behind it.
We're being continually told various reasons other than the truth behind the economic collapse.
Lets start hearing some facts from those supposed to be in charge. No? Why not - could it be because they are involved in our downfall somehow?

I couldn't give a toss who gets the job as FF leader as long as they never get elected again.
I would rather the MRLP at this point and would trust them to do a much better job that Bertie, Cowen and the rest of the gangsters who have bankrupted this island.
What us? FF hasn't cared about an us (unless they are referring to themselves) for a long time. Haven't you read any newspapers over the last decade or so?
While I would like and enjoy seeing Cowen's political career destroyed, I don't believe that there is anyone within the ranks of FF who isn't tainted by the corruption, cronyism, greed, etc. that has dirtied politiccs here for far too long.
Hopefully FF RIP.
And before you say it, I'm not associated with any particular political organisation. However, I do know who I don't want.

FYI he's your leader too :rolleyes:

Seth Brundle

In terms of leader i.e. Taoiseach, he may have the role by hasn't managed to actually try leading the people.
However, my earlier reference was with regard to being leader of FF.

Still don't understand the use of the :rolleyes:

Fitzerb

kbannon wrote: »

Haven't you read any newspapers over the last decade or so?
.

If you wish to have a debate I am game for it, but if you think the above remark adds anything to that debate then I am disappointed.

Fitzerb

lynski wrote: »

maybe it has been asked, i have not read the entire thread, but if he did not discuss the banking crisis, clearly looming, why the hell not? he was finance minister, surely if he has this group together it should have been the only topic of conversation? if he had to go golfing with every chairman of every bank to get info then why didn't he?
it shows deep incompetence that he did not discuss it and even more that he did not manage to come up with a plausible reason for spending 7hrs in the company of bankers if not for work.
oh who are the 12% who still trust them and how can they be stopped?

Its amazing how people differ. You think he should golf and dicuss the National affairs on the tee box some wnat to hang him for it.......
Free Debate is good.

Seth Brundle

Fitzerb wrote: »

If you wish to have a debate I am game for it, but if you think the above remark adds anything to that debate then I am disappointed.

You get disappointed quite a lot on here. Wait until the GE!
Anyhow, I'm disappointed that my country has been bankrupted, does that make us even?