Christians will return to Mother Church to survive and face Radical Islam

ubertrad

Interesting story here. I wasn't sure it was a serious article at first, but it appears it is.

Basically, with the increasing persecution of Christians by Radical Islamists, the Christians will unite under the Pope and they will use the European Union to confront the Islamist threat.

Whaddya think about that?

Key excerpt from The Pope Is Furious:

The day after Islamic terrorists attacked Catholics in Alexandria, Pope Benedict xvi said it was a “vile gesture of death” and that it “offends God and all of humanity.” In his speech, he appealed to Christians: “In the face of the threatening tensions of the moment, especially in the face of discrimination, of abuse of power and religious intolerance that today particularly strikes Christians, I again direct a pressing invitation not to yield to discouragement and resignation.” That’s a polite way of saying, “Let’s not capitulate to the demands of radical Islam.”

Radical Islam is not a compromising religion. Buoyed by its apparent success, radical Islam will undoubtedly remain unrelenting in its attacks on Christians in 2011. The story this year will be how the Vatican responds. Fifteen hundred years of European history—including the Crusades, when tens of thousands of Catholic Europeans responded to Pope Urban’s war cry and descended on the Middle East—tell us that the Catholic Church will respond mightily, with terrific force and vigor!

In practical terms, two developments are likely. First, the ongoing persecution of various Christian churches and Catholic sects will drive these groups into the protective arms of the mother church, the Catholic Church. The more its daughter churches run to it for protection, the stronger the Vatican will become in defending its spiritual family. The further radical Islam encroaches, the more intense and popular Benedict’s campaign to re-evangelize the Catholic community, especially in Europe, will grow.

Second, expect the Vatican to increasingly employ its tried and tested strategy of forging a powerful axis with the most dominant European power, and then exploiting that powerful entity as the instrument through which it can confront its enemy, in this case radical Islam. For the Vatican, the rise of militant Islam is an ideal talking point with Europeans, millions of whom are alarmed by the encroachment of Islam on the Continent. With a little prodding here and there, and a few phone calls to European governments, the Vatican could begin to make life much tougher for Muslims in Europe!

Point is, radical Islam is a mutual threat to both the Catholic Church and Europe, making it an issue on which the Catholic Church’s relations with the German-led European Union could reach new levels.

While we don’t claim to know the thoughts and designs of Pope Benedict and other Catholic leaders, we do know what Bible prophecy and history say. And we can say with absolute certainty that Pope Benedict xvi is looking at Asia Bibi, and the Catholic victims of the bombing in Alexandria, and the mass exodus of Catholics from Iraq, and is becoming enraged. Even now, he is more than likely hatching a strategy to confront this enemy.

That strategy, Bible prophecy says, will soon thrust the entire world into a time of unprecedented upheaval and violence!

PDN

ubertrad wrote: »

Interesting story here. I wasn't sure it was a serious article at first, but it appears it is.

Basically, with the increasing persecution of Christians by Radical Islamists, the Christians will unite under the Pope and they will use the European Union to confront the Islamist threat.

Whaddya think about that?

Key excerpt from The Pope Is Furious:

I think the guy is serious. Bonkers, but still serious.

The website is part of an offshoot of the Worldwide Church of God cult (the guys who used to give away a magazine called 'The Plain Truth' at railway stations etc).

They are British Israelites who believe that the Anglo-Saxons are the lost 10 tribes of Israel. They believe that the Pope will be the False Prophet in the Book of Revelation who will form a super-religion along with the AntiChrist. The article you link to is entirely consistent with their fruitcake beliefs, but is not grounded in reality.

ubertrad

PDN wrote: »

I think the guy is serious. Bonkers, but still serious.

The website is part of an offshoot of the Worldwide Church of God cult (the guys who used to give away a magazine called 'The Plain Truth' at railway stations etc).

They are British Israelites who believe that the Anglo-Saxons are the lost 10 tribes of Israel. They believe that the Pope will be the False Prophet in the Book of Revelation who will form a super-religion along with the AntiChrist. The article you link to is entirely consistent with their fruitcake beliefs, but is not grounded in reality.

I don't want to link to their website, but on the Worldwide Church of God (UK and Eire) website it states 'WCG UK is part of Grace Communion International (GCI), and is also a member of the Evangelical Alliance.' They seem quite mainstream if they are members of the Evangelical Alliance? Not that I'd know what is mainstream. :P

I think the theory isn't that far out.

PDN

ubertrad wrote: »

I don't want to link to their website, but on the Worldwide Church of God (UK and Eire) website it states 'WCG UK is part of Grace Communion International (GCI), and is also a member of the Evangelical Alliance.' They seem quite mainstream if they are members of the Evangelical Alliance? Not that I'd know what is mainstream. :P

I said the guys in Philadelphia whose website you linked to were an offshoot.

The Worldwide Church of God was a cult founded by Herbert W. Armstrong. They were heterodox in a number of different ways, including denying the Trinity. However, after Armstrong died the organisation repented of their more peculiar beliefs, disowned Armstrong as a false prophet, and adopted a doctrinal position that would be much more biblical. That is why they were subsequently accepted into the Evangelical Alliance.

However, many of the members resisted these changes and so left to set up splinter organisations that would maintain Armstrong's cultic teachings. It is one of those offshoots that you are linking to.

I think the theory isn't that far out.

It doesn't surprise me at all that you think that.

ubertrad

PDN wrote: »

I said the guys in Philadelphia whose website you linked to were an offshoot.

The Worldwide Church of God was a cult founded by Herbert W. Armstrong. They were heterodox in a number of different ways, including denying the Trinity. However, after Armstrong died the organisation repented of their more peculiar beliefs, disowned Armstrong as a false prophet, and adopted a doctrinal position that would be much more biblical. That is why they were subsequently accepted into the Evangelical Alliance.

However, many of the members resisted these changes and so left to set up splinter organisations that would maintain Armstrong's cultic teachings. It is one of those offshoots that you are linking to.

It doesn't surprise me at all that you think that.

Ah, thanks for the explanation. Pray tell, why does it not surprise you that I think that?

PDN

ubertrad wrote: »

Pray tell, why does it not surprise you that I think that?

I think we all have a tendency to accept theories that support our worldview, often filtering out or ignoring those elements that don't suit us. It's human nature.

ubertrad

PDN wrote: »

I think we all have a tendency to accept theories that support our worldview, often filtering out or ignoring those elements that don't suit us. It's human nature.

I just desire the one big happy flock that our blessed Lord desired.

As a friend of mine says (regarding Catholics and non-Catholic Christians), 'If we don't hang together, we'll be hung separately.'

prinz

ubertrad wrote: »

Whaddya think about that?
Key excerpt from The Pope Is Furious:

I used to get the Trumpet delivered at one stage. Fascinating reading (if you are into grand global conspiracy theories and such - which is why I used to enjoy it, not because I am into global conspiracies but it entertains me to get an insight into the minds of those that do). Almost believable too from time to time. Bonkers is a polite way to describe their usual ramblings about the Vatican anti-Christ, the rise of the Fourth Reich and how Germany will be instrumental in starting WW3... all that kind of thing.

irishconvert

ubertrad wrote: »

I just desire the one big happy flock that our blessed Lord desired.

As a friend of mine says (regarding Catholics and non-Catholic Christians), 'If we don't hang together, we'll be hung separately.'

Why not hang together with Muslims also? Why try to create divisions between Muslims and Christians? To be honest it is in everyone's benefit if Christians, Muslims and other religions work together. Our biggest threat is people working trying to destroy all religions. Muslims and Christians have very similar beliefs, why not just try to get along??

antiskeptic

irishconvert wrote: »

Why not hang together with Muslims also? Why try to create divisions between Muslims and Christians? To be honest it is in everyone's benefit if Christians, Muslims and other religions work together. Our biggest threat is people working trying to destroy all religions. Muslims and Christians have very similar beliefs, why not just try to get along??

ubertrad (and Roman Catholicism in general) doesn't accept that the church of Christ is already united. United by virtue of being 'in him' - irrespective of their denomination. And if folk aren't in him (even though they might be a member of a Christian denomination and might well consider themselves Christians) then they aren't of the church in order that their being disunited matters a fig.

Other than in fringe irrelevances, there is no similarity between the beliefs of Islam and the beliefs of Christianity. Which is not to say there should be any conflict between Christians and Muslims. No more than there should be between Christians and anyone else.

antiskeptic

ubertrad wrote: »

I just desire the one big happy flock that our blessed Lord desired.

The flock is happy (for his sheep hear his voice) and is united under his Lordship. Big Muvver might not agree with that but those who hear his voice aren't overly concerned about that.

irishconvert

antiskeptic wrote: »

ubertrad (and Roman Catholicism in general) doesn't accept that the church of Christ is already united. United by virtue of being 'in him' - irrespective of their denomination. And if folk aren't in him (even though they might be a member of a Christian denomination and might well consider themselves Christians) then they aren't of the church in order that their being disunited matters a fig.

Other than in fringe irrelevances, there is no similarity between the beliefs of Islam and the beliefs of Christianity. Which is not to say there should be any conflict between Christians and Muslims. No more than there should be between Christians and anyone else.

We believe the world and everything in it was created by God. I think that is a pretty big similarity. We believe in the same messengers from God, Abraham, Moses, Jesus. Another big similarity. Don't you think that is important?

antiskeptic

irishconvert wrote: »

We believe the world and everything in it was created by God. I think that is a pretty big similarity. We believe in the same messengers from God, Abraham, Moses, Jesus. Another big similarity. Don't you think that is important?

We might believe in the same messangers from God but we don't believe in the same message from God. And it's the message that strikes me as the vital thing.

The differences in beliefs about the message - in both cases involving a mans rightstanding before God (and how that is to be achieved) - couldn't be polar opposite-er.

It's striking that even the atheists, when asked how God should respond to them in the case that he does afterall exist, will say that "I haven't been such a bad chap when all is said and done - I endeavoured to do unto others as was done unto me". It's this righteousness-by-work which is the distinguishing feature of every worldview, religious and irreligious, except the single salvation that comes by Gods grace alone.

I hope that comparison isn't offensive to you - I'm calling it as I see it.

PDN

irishconvert wrote: »

We believe the world and everything in it was created by God. I think that is a pretty big similarity. We believe in the same messengers from God, Abraham, Moses, Jesus. Another big similarity. Don't you think that is important?

We disagree about who God is. Christians believe that He is Triune - Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

We disagree about who Jesus is. You believe he was a messenger or a prophet, whereas Christians believe is God.

We disagree about who Mohammed is. You believe he was God's true prophet, whereas Christians believe he was a false prophet.

We also disagree about how you get saved, about what is God's revelation to man, and many other issues.

This is not to start an argument on those issues. And our disagreement should not stop us from living in an atmosphere of mutual toleration and respect of one another's human rights, but we really have very little in common indeed.

irishconvert

PDN wrote: »

We disagree about who God is. Christians believe that He is Triune - Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

We disagree about who Jesus is. You believe he was a messenger or a prophet, whereas Christians believe is God.

We disagree about who Mohammed is. You believe he was God's true prophet, whereas Christians believe he was a false prophet.

We also disagree about how you get saved, about what is God's revelation to man, and many other issues.

This is not to start an argument on those issues. And our disagreement should not stop us from living in an atmosphere of mutual toleration and respect of one another's human rights, but we really have very little in common indeed.

Anything we agree on, in your opinion? How about the ten commandments?

georgieporgy

irishconvert wrote: »

Why not hang together with Muslims also? Why try to create divisions between Muslims and Christians? To be honest it is in everyone's benefit if Christians, Muslims and other religions work together. Our biggest threat is people working trying to destroy all religions. Muslims and Christians have very similar beliefs, why not just try to get along??

Excellent point, and this is the sort of thing that Pope Benedict has been urging also. I'd prefer a good muslim to a bad christian anyday. (but it's better to be a good christian!) . I will be even more outragous and say I think God does pay attention to what we do as individuals and more so to the intention behind our actions.

I think the next big battle will be between believers and non believers, and in this scenario the believing muslims will side with believing christians.

PDN

irishconvert wrote: »

Anything we agree on, in your opinion? How about the ten commandments?

I agree that the Ten Commandents were given to the Jews.

I do think that 9 of the commandments are restated in the New Testament - so obviously refer to moral principles that still apply to us today. (The exception, of course, being the one about the Sabbath).