Will you disagree?

Cass

Thats your interpretation and certainly not was meant i just suggested a way of making sure everybody knew the law before or at time of application

Thats a few people's interpretation as is apparent by the amount of users asking are you anti hunting, and the fact you have to keep explaining that you shoot yourself.

Why after surely it should be before......you dont get your pass cert on whatever before you take lessons anywhere else do you?

TBH i was trying to give a little, common ground if you will. I was, and still am opposed to any course that prevents a person getting a license. If the course could be run after getting the license or as part of an ongoing training system/scheme but again only after getting the license. The ability and room for abuse of this system is too great to be allowed to be run by one organisation.

I want to stop shooters being punished for the actions of a few, and i have never wanted to protect anything other than what is legally protected and people should know this (what is protected) before they shoot anything i would have thought?

Your proposal will not do this. Your idea to "protect" the ordinary decent hunter is to levy such strict guidelines/laws around getting a license that some may never get a license, some will have to repeat it many times, and others may not even bother and will surrender firearms or not take up the sport at all. Again this has terrible resemblences to the handgun laws that "would not effect the ordinarl shooter" , but were instead meant to hinder stop the criminals. Also those that are currently doing the most harm will continue to do so whether they have this course or not.

As someone who kept sheep and chickens you say i want to protect foxes?....you are having a laugh:D Although i will say that not all foxes are to blame and foxes do a lot of good in keeping other not useful dare i say vermin in check.........Please ezridax dont read between the lines:)

Okay i won't read between the lines. I'll read whats blantantly obvious. You are opposed to fox shooting. If you honestly expect farmers, especially the older ones to invest thousands in fencing and prevention that will require maintenance when shooters will do it for free and gladly. I don't think so. I have a local lad that gives me permission to shoot his land. One day he made me empty my boots after i walked through some corn in his shed. There wasn't a half a cup in the boot. I can see him paying a few grand for the fencing you are describing. :rolleyes:

Yes perhaps i agree a bad example but i was eating my lunch after a long journey in bad fog and ice and could only give that example at time.

Bad example any time. Its the same as those that would compare England, America, etc to Ireland. We are not them and our laws differ. So to with other pursuits, hobbies, activities. Driving included. Shooting is shooting and it stands alone as its own entity.

fodda

ezridax wrote: »

TBH i was trying to give a little, common ground if you will. I was, and still am opposed to any course that prevents a person getting a license. If the course could be run after getting the license or as part of an ongoing training system/scheme but again only after getting the license. The ability and room for abuse of this system is too great to be allowed to be run by one organisation.

Could that be interpreted that you also agree something needs to be done as regards educating some shooters?;)

Okay i won't read between the lines. I'll read whats blantantly obvious. You are opposed to fox shooting.

I am not, i dont know why you think because i say that not all foxes cause problems i am against shooting them? I definetly couldnt blame one particular animal for all the ills of what some do (a bit the same as shooters really)

If you honestly expect farmers, especially the older ones to invest thousands in fencing and prevention that will require maintenance when shooters will do it for free and gladly. I don't think so.

Where did that come from? But on that point if someone runs a business and cant afford to invest in capital expenditure, they should find something else to do because any business that relies on the work of volunteers cant run efficiently for ever.

I have a local lad that gives me permission to shoot his land. One day he made me empty my boots after i walked through some corn in his shed. There wasn't a half a cup in the boot. I can see him paying a few grand for the fencing you are describing. :rolleyes:

Yes i have met a few like that and worse.:rolleyes:

Cass

fodda wrote: »

Could that be interpreted that you also agree something needs to be done as regards educating some shooters?;)

I have already said i am not opposed to hunters being educated .............

ezridax wrote:

I do not have a major issue with educating the general hunting population.........

................ but not to the extent that they will loose or not get their firearms as a result.

I am not, i dont know why you think because i say that not all foxes cause problems i am against shooting them? I definetly couldnt blame one particular animal for all the ills of what some do (a bit the same as shooters really)

Its not your beliefs you are more than entitled to them. Its the way you sometimes seem to "villify" fox shooting, etc. Your suggestions and proposals seem to inflict harsher levies on shooters, etc. Again it may be my inference, but i am not alone. As mentioned previously whther you mean it or not that is how it comes across.

Where did that come from?

apologies i was thinking of another thread tht suggested fox shooting could be repaced by installing electric fencing, vermin and fox proofing runs, etc. Was in my head so i wrote it down without explaining the back story to it.

But on that point if someone runs a business and cant afford to invest in capital expenditure, they should find something else to do because any business that relies on the work of volunteers cant run efficiently for ever.

Thats a cold and somewhat simple view of farming. The only bit of "free labour" they may rely on is the shooters coming to hunt their lands and control vermin. Some may pay for it, but i cannot see the majority doing so, and to say they should quit farming if they are not prepared to pay for the non vital equipment is short sighted and over simplistic.

fodda

I do not and never intended any genuine shooter to loose out in any way or get inflicted with extra costs anywhere, my original post was just to make sure only those who could pass a questionaire would get their cert. (so they had obviousley read up and educated themselves) on what when and where they could shoot and what they couldnt do.

The only people who i would want to stop shooting are the ones who dont know or couldnt give a monkeys' on what they are allowed to do. The wrong animals/birds shot, trespassing, poaching, shooting from the road etc give everybody with a gun a bad name and we will all suffer. You cant stop all this things but you can stop the ones who simply didnt know.

Free range, Organic, pasture and some other kind of poultry/egg production use permanant enclosures with electric fencing not all but quite a few of them. Not just for foxes for everything.

Farming.......long time ago most farms were tiny just a few acres....things change...nothing to do with you or me, you have to move with the times or do something else.

Cass

fodda wrote: »

I do not and never intended any genuine shooter to loose out in any way or get inflicted with extra costs anywhere, .....................

The only people who i would want to stop shooting are the ones who dont know or couldnt give a monkeys' on what they are allowed to do. The wrong animals/birds shot, trespassing, poaching, shooting from the road etc give everybody with a gun a bad name and we will all suffer. You cant stop all this things but you can stop the ones who simply didnt know.

The problem here is that even with such a course those that are numpties, and act the fool will still continue to do so. To use your exampl of driving. You could have all the bad habits in the world, but when it comes to the test, you straighten up, use your mirrors, drive civilised, etc. Same with shooting in that sense. If a poacher, trouble maker, etc takes the course, passes then continues to act like a twat the course has failed. However the ordinary bloke with no mental acuity for testing/exams, the lad that may had a writing/reading disorder, or any other "disability" that would immediately hold them back will fail unfairly. The lad that shoots the odd fox, rabbit, pigeon. You know the kind. They make up alot more of the shooting community than people would think. These are immediately discriminated against, and may surrender firearms or not bother with the licenses.

I seem to be repeating myself, but i cannot stress enough the long term and unseen problems such a proposal could and would cause.

Free range, Organic, pasture and some other kind of poultry/egg production use permanant enclosures with electric fencing not all but quite a few of them. Not just for foxes for everything.

Farming.......long time ago most farms were tiny just a few acres....things change...nothing to do with you or me, you have to move with the times or do something else.

Please understand before reading this part that i am in no way having a go at farmers. Its just an observation.

Alot of the farmers and land owners whose land i shoot on are "old style/school". They don't spend a penny they don't have to and even then if it cannot be fixed or repaired. This (as i know their families for a long time) comes from the grandfathers, fathers, etc pasing it down. To save money and don't spend unnecessarily. The pens could be a good idea, but again they will look at the cost of lost fowl, the price of the pen, and the free shooting done and if the cost of the lost fowl each year is less than the cost of a pen and maintenance then the shooter will win out every time.

Thats what is happening and will continue to do so until mindsets are changed and lets face it Irish people in general are slow to change their minds about tried and tested methods for anything.

Cass

Just to clarify, i do hope you DO NOT think i am saying that non Irish have no say in what should or should not be done here. I know thats not what you're syaing or implying, but feel it important to clarify that point. :cool:

fodda

ezridax wrote: »

Just to clarify, i do hope you DO NOT think i am saying that non Irish have no say in what should or should not be done here. I know thats not what you're syaing or implying, but feel it important to clarify that point. :cool:

No problem:) I deleted mine in case somebody took it the wrong way:rolleyes:

Vegeta

Lads I cleaned up the end of this thread as it added nothing of value to the discussion on licensing and could lead to some bad blood.

The debate here is (was) healthy, the posters are courteous and respectful of each other even though they strongly disagree. Back seat mod type posts, telling others where they should post and then further discussion of those posts is not helpful. It drags threads way off topic and it always ends badly. Please avoid posting like that.

I think the thread has reached a natural finish anyway so we should probably just leave it closed.