Tenant building a shed, wants me to sign contract

Gerry.L

Im renting a house out a chap since early December. I told him he could have the house until next December providing all goes well. And come December I'll more than likely give him another year.

TOday he called me and asked could he knock down the shed in the garden and build a new one. All at his own expense. I told him so long as he got planning permission and it was all above board he could work away.

However he wants to draw up a contract of some description saying that if I "kick him out" within say 5 years (or however many) then he'll bill me for the shed.

Fair enough, that sounds reasonable. I can understand why he would want to do that. And if I was in his shoes Id be doing the exact same thing.

But Im having a side thought. And Im probably just being paranoid here. But if I sign that contract, will that any way oblige me to let him stay for 5 years. Fair enough we still have our original contract, but could he use that against me in any way..???

OS119

Gerry.L wrote: »

...But Im having a side thought. And Im probably just being paranoid here. But if I sign that contract, will that any way oblige me to let him stay for 5 years. Fair enough we still have our original contract, but could he use that against me in any way..???

can't see how.

best thing would be to have a sliding scale of compensation over 5 years rather than a 'its worth full price one day and nothing the next' cut-off date, its fairer on you - you don't pay new price for a four year old shed in 2015.

it need not be anything more than an addendum/codicil on the lease, just have it set out in clear language with an end date, make sure it says what both parties mean, and that both parties state that the building of the shed by the tenant, and the existance of the agreed compensation scheme, carry no implication of a duty or intention on either party to stay, or allow to stay, beyond the requirements of the lease or any susequent tenancy.

the_syco

Three things:
Cost of labour
Cost of materials
Cost of labour * hours put into it.

If he builds it himself, are we talking standard parts only, parts made for a king, or what? Likewise with labour. Is it included, or billed at €400 an hour? Get the price of how much the shed will cost, what'll be in it, and why is he building it?

Finally, check if it can be raised, so that the floor will be at least 5 inches from the ground? Just to avoid flooding (has the garden flooded much in the past?).

Dempo1

Sorry OP, this is complete madness and i would not entertain any demolition or for that matter allowing a complete stranger re build a shed. Whilst there may not be planning permission required given a structure already exists, there would be potentially insurance implications with a new build. Jesus, the chap is a tenant, WTF does he require a new shed?

I would permit Hell to freeze over before allowing anyone including a tenant under take such work!

Mr. Presentable

Dempo1 wrote: »

Sorry OP, this is complete madness and i would not entertain any demolition or for that matter allowing a complete stranger re build a shed. Whilst there may not be planning permission required given a structure already exists, there would be potentially insurance implications with a new build. Jesus, the chap is a tenant, WTF does he require a new shed?

I would permit Hell to freeze over before allowing anyone including a tenant under take such work!

I agree with this. A tenant should not be allowed build anything on property he doesn't own.

Avns1s

I agree with Dempo. If he wants a shed and there's space, let him put up a temporary shed and leave the old one alone (provided theres space of course) and let him take it down and bring it with him (if he wants) when the lease is over.

Senna

Do you want a new shed?
Is there anything wrong with the old one? does it suit the needs of most tenants i.e. place to keep stuff dry.
I'd be very warry unless you really want a new shed, as i'm guessing you'll be paying for it at some stage, 5 years is a long time for things to change.

goat2

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

I agree with this. A tenant should not be allowed build anything on property he doesn't own.

once he puts in this shed it is a permanent fixture, i think there is some law with permanent fixtures and tenant, where as if he bought one of those ready made sheds and popped it there on a bed of blocks or pavers, it would not be a permanent fixture but can be moved on when he goes, that is what i would agree with,

Gerry.L

SOme mixed reviews from all.

Maybe a bit more information. There is a shed there at the minute. But its not in the best of condition and is more like coal shed (in terms of size). Just to hazard a guess, perhaps 10ft by 5ft.

His new proposed shed will be about twice the size and from my own gathering it will be a cross between a personal gym in one half and then his work tools (carpenter) and his work projects in the other half.

I can fully understand why he wants this new proposed shed. So long as it doesnt come back to haunt me either legally, or interfere with the original contract, (or insurance wise as suggested) then he can work away.

Thanks for all ther replys

delllat

Gerry.L wrote: »

Im renting a house out a chap since early December. I told him he could have the house until next December providing all goes well. And come December I'll more than likely give him another year.

TOday he called me and asked could he knock down the shed in the garden and build a new one. All at his own expense. I told him so long as he got planning permission and it was all above board he could work away.

However he wants to draw up a contract of some description saying that if I "kick him out" within say 5 years (or however many) then he'll bill me for the shed.

Fair enough, that sounds reasonable. I can understand why he would want to do that. And if I was in his shoes Id be doing the exact same thing.

But Im having a side thought. And Im probably just being paranoid here. But if I sign that contract, will that any way oblige me to let him stay for 5 years. Fair enough we still have our original contract, but could he use that against me in any way..???

i would say no because it could be an expensive shed if you have a disagreement in the next 5 years
I might offer to pay the pay for the materials and let him build it on the condition that when ever the lease is terminated the shed belongs to you

Dempo1

Gerry.L wrote: »

SOme mixed reviews from all.

Maybe a bit more information. There is a shed there at the minute. But its not in the best of condition and is more like coal shed (in terms of size). Just to hazard a guess, perhaps 10ft by 5ft.

His new proposed shed will be about twice the size and from my own gathering it will be a cross between a personal gym in one half and then his work tools (carpenter) and his work projects in the other half.

I can fully understand why he wants this new proposed shed. So long as it doesnt come back to haunt me either legally, or interfere with the original contract, (or insurance wise as suggested) then he can work away.

Thanks for all ther replys

I still advise extreme caution with this development, I am assuming it will require foundation works and as its going to be double the size there may be planning issue's and the neighbors (if any) to consult.

Who knows what this chaps circumstances are and despite any legal agreements this could get very messy.

A very simple solution would be as follows.

Assuming the tenant is determined he requires additional space. Seek a quotation from a registered (and insured builder).

The Tenant appears to be willing to pay for the shed build so why not factor in the cost of building into a new rental agreement, say add on an additional weekly sum to offset the construction costs.

You retain full ownership and management of the project and ultimately retain the shed which you will regardless of any legal agreements.

Put another way, the tenant has the option of renting additional space elsewhere if he is not satisfied, one would have assumed he was aware of his storage needs before renting your house in the first place.

A final option is the tenant purchasing a removal shed but based on his ambitious needs i doubt there will be the room.

Under no circumstances would i permit any construction work on my property let alone get myself into any contracts that compromise ownership of any part of said property. This could lead to a very ugly dispute and i would strongly suggest your own solicitor will strongly advise against any such arrangements!

the_syco

Gerry.L wrote: »

Maybe a bit more information. There is a shed there at the minute. But its not in the best of condition and is more like coal shed (in terms of size). Just to hazard a guess, perhaps 10ft by 5ft.

His new proposed shed will be about twice the size and from my own gathering it will be a cross between a personal gym in one half and then his work tools (carpenter) and his work projects in the other half.

Twice the size, and the possibility that he wants to work from it/run a business from it...

I'd thread carefully, and should you go ahead with it, have a solicitor look at the wording of the contract, as it sounds like he intends to build a shed, and stay there for five years. Also, the ownership of the shed would be something I'd want clarified in the document.

matrim

If you do go ahead with this make sure the contract states that you will only owe him payment for the shed if you kick him out, not if he decides to move himself.

You should also make sure that it is voided (and you don't owe him anything) if he breaks his lease and you kick him out because of that (i.e. refuses to pay rent, damages the property, anti-social behaviour)

delllat

matrim wrote: »

If you do go ahead with this make sure the contract states that you will only owe him payment for the shed if you kick him out, not if he decides to move himself.

You should also make sure that it is voided (and you don't owe him anything) if he breaks his lease and you kick him out because of that (i.e. refuses to pay rent, damages the property, anti-social behaviour)

or else just dont sign it in the first place ,if you have to kick him out for any reason that shed is going to be used against you

its hard enough to ger rid of a problem tenant even without them owning a contract to some of your property

also sounds more like a garage than a shed hes planning to build,i dont know how he could fit a workshop in one side and a gym on the other side if its not a decent sized building

goat2

i do understand for the tenant in this case, he would like to have a workshop and a place to exercise and chill out, a bolthole of his own, once you have everything signed down you will be okay, if he is a hardworking person who need the space, and the cost of renting a garage versus building would have a big difference over a five yr period and the idea that it is close to him to just go out and not have to drive there, also he can keep an eye it will be a safe place for his tools, ......................... question,,, what age is this person, does he have a partner and children with him,, what does he do for a living, is he working full time, do you have references from last landlord all these would be what i would be looking at, along with a person who is not a problem to neighbours, once he tick all the boxes for you, and anyway there are still people of their word out there, i am sure that you can see that in him and then that is ok.

Pkiernan

NO to the shed

tara73

sounds dodgy to me.

why does a tenant wants to build a shed on his own and not asking for you to provide a new one or repair the old ???
and it sounds it'll be much bigger than the one which is there at the moment...planning issues will occur??? maybe neighbours complaining??

actually my first thought was that he might want to build a shed to live in, sublet it to a mate who's in trouble/ he urgently needs money??

do you live close by and can you have a look what he's up there?
just my 2 cents...

filthymcnasty

Madness to allow a third party build on your property. Will you have any control of the cost/design of the shed. Also if a tenant is preparing to invest in a shed sounds like he intends staying long long term and could end up immovable., might be fine now but what in a year or so if you ever want to move back. This sounds like it could end very messy and would avoid allowing it to ahead like the plague.

Victor

Gerry.L wrote: »

his work tools (carpenter) and his work projects in the other half.

So he wants to turn your property into a commercial property.

He also wants a 5 year lease, exactly the length of time that would allow him to them claim a further 35 year lease?

And he may get to bill you for the "improvement"?

I saw "improvement" in quotes because he is likely to do it himself in a manner that suits him, not you.

the_syco

Victor wrote: »

So he wants to turn your property into a commercial property.

He also wants a 5 year lease, exactly the length of time that would allow him to them claim a further 35 year lease?

And he may get to bill you for the "improvement"?

I saw "improvement" in quotes because he is likely to do it himself in a manner that suits him, not you.

I agree with Victor.

wyndham

Why would you even consider allowing him to do this? What is the upside/benefit to you?

Emme

OP, get legal advice on the shed AND whether you should let the tenant stay any longer than 6 months (after which time he will be into a Part 4 tenancy and have considerably more rights). If he's making these kind of demands now and he hasn't got a Part 4 tenancy yet, what's he going to be like further down the line when he has more rights?

I would advise you to familiarise yourself with the 2004 Residential Tenancies Act, I've a feeling your tenant knows it inside out.

I understand that you want to be fair to this guy but I would advise you to get legal advice.

lion_bar

will the bigger shed eat into your garden and make it a less attractive property to your next tenants.

If the current shed does need rebuilding, you should pay for it and increase the tenants rent, that would be my preferred solution imo.

Then neither of you have to worry about what happens if he decides to leave or you decide to sell etc, because having something on a contract only says what should happen, reality might be different or require action to enforce.

john t

No too shed unless you want or need it. If you build shed and tennant uses it when they leave you have no worrys or problems, if tennant build shed on your property it is their shed, when they are leaving if they ever leave you`l prob have too pay them off.

finnegan2010

Ha ha I would AVOID in my opinion at some stage in one way or another you will pay for your "free" shed twice over mate.:pac:

Gerry.L

Just to give some closure to this thread.

After a lot of talking between me the tenant and my cousin (studying to be a solicitor) We have come to an agreement. The shed will not be going ahead.

So thats the good news.

And then the other news is I am going to build an extension onto the side of the house. Which to be honest was an idea I had being considering since the day I was given the house. Although I was thinking more of a conservatory then a proper room. But I guess an extra room would do no harm.

So thanks for all the replies and advice everyone. I truly appreciate it.