Clubfitting

GreeBo

alxmorgan wrote: »

The impact comes from gear effect. If you are arguing with me on this then you are arguing against all the worlds top pros and what they are finding using Trackman/Flightscope technology

Ball movement from gear effect comes from hitting outside the sweetspot, if you are doing that your swing caused it, nothing else. Fix your swing and it will go away.

I know you arent trying to tell me you can "fit away" gear effect!

alxmorgan wrote: »

What I can say is I used my old driver for 2 years and my new one for 9 months and the results are night and day in terms of ball flight. The difference was immediately noticeable from day one. I made no change to my swing. At least not knowingly. I would think that length of time would be enough to draw conclusions

I got a lesson and the difference was night and day too.
I also played badly one year and really well the next but changed nothing else.

alxmorgan

GreeBo wrote: »

Ball movement from gear effect comes from hitting outside the sweetspot, if you are doing that your swing caused it, nothing else. Fix your swing and it will go away.

I know you arent trying to tell me you can "fit away" gear effect!

You cannot fix your swing to hit the sweetspot every time. Even the pros do not manage that. Granted they get lot closer to it than we do.

What I am saying is that if your are assuming that fitting is useless because amateurs swings are too changeable then your assumption may be incorrect as our swing characteristics may be more stable than you think (or I thought previously)

GreeBo wrote: »

I got a lesson and the difference was night and day too.
I also played badly one year and really well the next but changed nothing else.

I don't see what point you are trying to make. Are you saying that it is not possible for drivers to be built to different spin models ?

GreeBo

alxmorgan wrote: »

You cannot fix your swing to hit the sweetspot every time. Even the pros do not manage that. Granted they get lot closer to it than we do.

But your argument (seemed) that the same swing could lead to different results and that that was due to different impact and gear effect.
I disagree with this as I believe its fully the swing causing this.
In any case, I fail to see how a fitting is going to fix it?

alxmorgan wrote: »

What I am saying is that if your are assuming that fitting is useless because amateurs swings are too changeable then your assumption may be incorrect as our swing characteristics may be more stable than you think (or I thought previously)

If they were that stable why do we see so much variation from day to day? Why do pros see it?

alxmorgan wrote: »

I don't see what point you are trying to make. Are you saying that it is not possible for drivers to be built to different spin models ?

Not at all, what I am saying is that my swing changes (and stays changed over long durations), so what am I being fitted for?

If your swing doesnt change as you say, then why are people going back to be refitted every few years?

Russman

TBH I have very mixed feelings on the whole issue.

On one hand, for example, its obvious that a 6' 4" gorilla shouldn't be using shafts that are 2 inches short, so from a length and lie standpoint I think fitting can be very beneficial.

I'm not so convinced about flex. I suspect weight of a shaft and perceived feel are more important than the actual flex. I've had fittings where my groupings on the impact tape were much tighter with shaft X over shaft Y, but I also had a fitting where I picked up 10-12 yards extra with a 6 iron yet I hated the feel of the shaft that was giving me that.
I'm good friends with a fitter who works on one of the tour vans, and over the years have had lots of informal fittings where we'd mess around with different shafts/heads, and particularly with the irons, the differences have been fairly negligible, unless a shaft is totally and utterly wrong for me.

I've also had two fittings with FG where they were able to show big differences with different drivers. As it happens, I bought the driver they recommended last summer - its currently on Adverts, so make of that what you will. That's not a criticism of FG, to be fair to them, my fairway woods are totally standard/stock and they couldn't improve on them and told me not to try.

I think clubhead characteristics and quality of strike are more important. eg SLDR driver versus G25, two totally differently playing heads.

I hate to be boring about this, but I think like a lot of arguments, the truth is somewhere in the middle. Yes fitting helps, but once your starting point is that your clubs are in the right ballpark for you, additional changes are only tweaking things.

I'm fairly sure there's a large amount of placebo effect going on too, if you're convinced that a club is perfect for you because you've been fitted, you're bound to trust it more. With trust, comes better golf - that sounds like something Yoda would say !!:)

alxmorgan

GreeBo wrote: »

But your argument (seemed) that the same swing could lead to different results and that that was due to different impact and gear effect.
I disagree with this as I believe its fully the swing causing this.
In any case, I fail to see how a fitting is going to fix it?

A swing with largely the same characteristics. No two swings will ever be exactly the same. Perhaps the player can't feel the head, the kickpoint might be wrong for his transition etc etc. I am not an expert - I am just not ruling out the chance that someone else is and can make improvements.

GreeBo wrote: »

If they were that stable why do we see so much variation from day to day? Why do pros see it?

There could be a variety of reasons - physical, mental, motivational, luck. And perhaps on a given day their swing is slightly different. But perhaps 9 out of 10 times the swing characteristics are largely the same

GreeBo wrote: »

Not at all, what I am saying is that my swing changes (and stays changed over long durations), so what am I being fitted for?

If your swing doesnt change as you say, then why are people going back to be refitted every few years?

Of course peoples swings change if they intentionally try to change them. Maybe they are getting lessons. Maybe they are trying out the latest youtube fix.

And maybe they change over time naturally anyway and they do have to get refit. So what. Would you claim if you went for a lesson that you never need to go for another one ?

Are you completely rejecting the chance that a fitting can help a golfer ? I mean perhaps a lesson would also help but perhaps a golfer by changing nothing bar his clubs can see a big difference in his game ?

GreeBo

alxmorgan wrote: »

A swing with largely the same characteristics. No two swings will ever be exactly the same. Perhaps the player can't feel the head, the kickpoint might be wrong for his transition etc etc.

There could be a variety of reasons - physical, mental, motivational, luck. And perhaps on a given day their swing is slightly different. But perhaps 9 out of 10 times the swing characteristics are largely the same

So do they do a health check before fitting in case you are tired, not motivated, etc?

alxmorgan wrote: »

And maybe they change over time naturally anyway and they do have to get refit. So what. Would you claim if you went for a lesson that you never need to go for another one ?

Exactly the opposite, hence why I dont think much of custom fitting.
We had scratch golfers long before we had custom fitting, did they just happen to suit off the shelf clubs in your opinion?

alxmorgan wrote: »

Are you completely rejecting the chance that a fitting can help a golfer ? I mean perhaps a lesson would also help but perhaps a golfer by changing nothing bar his clubs can see a big difference in his game ?

For exactly the same reason that a swing change that was working stops working, a fitting that works will stop working.
Your swing is constantly changing.

alxmorgan

GreeBo wrote: »

So do they do a health check before fitting in case you are tired, not motivated, etc?

Exactly the opposite, hence why I dont think much of custom fitting.
We had scratch golfers long before we had custom fitting, did they just happen to suit off the shelf clubs in your opinion?


For exactly the same reason that a swing change that was working stops working, a fitting that works will stop working.
Your swing is constantly changing.

Yes we had scratch golfers long before fitting. So there are two options there...either they were good enough to play with anything or they found their ideal setup through trial and error. Perhaps both.

But if you accept they may have went through trial and error then all a fitting is doing is helping you to shortcut that process.

Anyway I can tell your mind is not for changing so we'll have to agree to disagree.

GreeBo

alxmorgan wrote: »

Yes we had scratch golfers long before fitting. So there are two options there...either they were good enough to play with anything or they found their ideal setup through trial and error. Perhaps both.

But if you accept they may have went through trial and error then all a fitting is doing is helping you to shortcut that process.

I just believe that within reason, anyone can play well or badly with anything.

alxmorgan wrote: »

Anyway I can tell your mind is not for changing so we'll have to agree to disagree.

Likewise!

GreeBo

Russman wrote: »

I'm not so convinced about flex. I suspect weight of a shaft and perceived feel are more important than the actual flex.

I would put flex up there with length & lie actually.

You have to really change your the unloading part of your swing if the flex is very wrong for you. It can be done, but its the same as bending down more if your clubs are too long, its just not right.

Russman

GreeBo wrote: »

So do they do a health check before fitting in case you are tired, not motivated, etc?

Exactly the opposite, hence why I dont think much of custom fitting.
We had scratch golfers long before we had custom fitting, did they just happen to suit off the shelf clubs in your opinion?


For exactly the same reason that a swing change that was working stops working, a fitting that works will stop working.
Your swing is constantly changing.

True, but look at pictures of the old guys playing, there was almost always a bit of lead tape somewhere on the heads of both the irons and the old persimmon drivers. That in itself would be custom fitting in a way.

I don't necessarily agree a swing is constantly changing, its very, very, hard for anyone to make any significant changes to the swing. Most peoples' swings are the same for life. Depends on if someone would argue that a shot out of the middle and a shot out of the heel were from different swings or just slight mis hits from the same swing. I think the swing was the same just the strike was off.

shabalala

Do you Greebo honestly think that scratch golfers/pros years ago didnt have their clubs custom built exactly how they wanted?? You are beyond ignorant to the thread if you do, the likes of Nicklaus, Trevino and their era were more demanding of their equipment makers than any of todays pros. Fact.

Go do some research before hammering down your iron fist of knowledge.
Very frustrating to see a mod nitpick and tear a thread to shreads based on what is just your opinion.

This forum is fcuked.

Russman

GreeBo wrote: »

You have to really change your the unloading part of your swing if the flex is very wrong for you.

Do you really though ? While I certainly wouldn't putt Crossfield up as the font of all wisdom, his videos on shaft flex are very interesting. He seemed to hit the ladies flex and the X flex shafts much the same.
Although I can see the point, as you say, if the flex is very wrong as opposed to maybe just not optimal.

GreeBo

Russman wrote: »

I don't necessarily agree a swing is constantly changing, its very, very, hard for anyone to make any significant changes to the swing. Most peoples' swings are the same for life. Depends on if someone would argue that a shot out of the middle and a shot out of the heel were from different swings or just slight mis hits from the same swing. I think the swing was the same just the strike was off.

But the only thing that can cause a strike to be off is your swing surely?
The club didnt change.
So getting a fitted club is still going to allow for your swing causing the strike to be off.

Russman wrote: »

Do you really though ? While I certainly wouldn't putt Crossfield up as the font of all wisdom, his videos on shaft flex are very interesting. He seemed to hit the ladies flex and the X flex shafts much the same.
Although I can see the point, as you say, if the flex is very wrong as opposed to maybe just not optimal.

Yeah I mean more than just non-optimal, say me using a senior flex for example.

I can and have used both stiff and regular in my woods and irons without any issue.

slave1

If I'm not mistaken did Nicklaus not play with weights at the grip end of his shaft, I remember him being interviewed a few years back and he said that made a huge difference to his game.

GreeBo

slave1 wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken did Nicklaus not play with weights at the grip end of his shaft, I remember him being interviewed a few years back and he said that made a huge difference to his game.

Was this a once off process or did he continually customize the clubs to how he was swinging?
I'd be pretty sure its the latter.

Montgolfier

Customising clubs dates back to Bobby Jones. He was using hickory clubs it makes absolute sense that a stick in a club needs to be spine aligned. I was walking in the wood's over Xmas and pointed this out to my brother in law. Showed him a curved piece of ash and asked him "which way would this stick bend the most?" Answer of course is with the curve. Same applies to tubular steel and graphite be it to a lesser degree.
Nobody should have to fight they're equipment that's why we have club fitters. In saying that becoming a club fitter equates to a 5 day course or at worst a lot of research on line. I really don't know how they make money, I do my own fitting it's not that difficult.

SaveOurLyric

alxmorgan wrote: »

But what proof would satisfy you ?

Clear evidence, or, a cogent argument, or at the least, something showing at least a correlation, between playing level and clubfitting.
I have not yet seen any good justification for club fitting.


Arguments on this topic are fallacious (but I still await a good one !).

For example :

alxmorgan wrote: »

Being human and such things not happening in a vacuum it is very difficult to prove.

This is the burden of proof fallacy. You are stating that if something is difficult to prove true, then you should believe it. Without proving it. The burden of proof rests on those making the proposition - not on others to disprove it.

Or :

ShivasIrons wrote: »

The simple argument for club fitting is that if it didn't work any golfer should be able to use any club and play to the maximum of their ability, clearly this isn't the case.

This is a false equivalence :
Your statement is based on one comparison ('any club') to a different one (club fitted versus off the shelf clubs).
i.e. in the first context your statement is true, and we all agree with its thrust (I could indeed not play as well as I do if I had to use a 3 year olds plastic clubs, or a short club designed for use by beginner 10 year olds, or a 48" driver designed for a long driving champion). No argument there.
But the above being true does not extend, let alone prove, that playing ability will be influenced by playing one clubfitted tweak of a club versus another.
Its not even a simple argument. It is none at all. If this is as good as the 'argument' gets for club fitting, then its case closed.

SaveOurLyric

shabalala wrote: »

Do you Greebo honestly think that scratch golfers/pros years ago didnt have their clubs custom built exactly how they wanted??

Correlation is not causation. Just because they did, does not prove that it made any difference.

SaveOurLyric

alxmorgan wrote: »

Yes we had scratch golfers long before fitting. So there are two options there...either they were good enough to play with anything or they found their ideal setup through trial and error. Perhaps both.

But if you accept they may have went through trial and error then all a fitting is doing is helping you to shortcut that process. .

Circular reasoning. You have assumed the existance of an ideal setup. Therfore they found one. And used trial and error. And therefore found their ideal setup.

But how do you know there is an ideal setup in the first place ?

SaveOurLyric

alxmorgan wrote: »

Are you completely rejecting the chance that a fitting can help a golfer ? I mean perhaps a lesson would also help but perhaps a golfer by changing nothing bar his clubs can see a big difference in his game ?

Perhaps indeed. But is there any evidence to suggest that may be the case ? If not, then why assume that it may be so ?

SaveOurLyric

slave1 wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken did Nicklaus not play with weights at the grip end of his shaft, I remember him being interviewed a few years back and he said that made a huge difference to his game.

Same causation/correlation mistake, and extension of anecdote to general conclusion.

SaveOurLyric

Montgolfier wrote: »

Customising clubs dates back to Bobby Jones. He was using hickory clubs it makes absolute sense that a stick in a club needs to be spine aligned. I was walking in the wood's over Xmas and pointed this out to my brother in law. Showed him a curved piece of ash and asked him "which way would this stick bend the most?" Answer of course is with the curve. Same applies to tubular steel and graphite be it to a lesser degree.

So what applies to wood, applies to tubular steel and graphite? And a wood characteristic that applies to steel and graphite must affect how well you play golf ?

Montgolfier wrote: »

Nobody should have to fight they're equipment that's why we have club fitters. In saying that becoming a club fitter equates to a 5 day course or at worst a lot of research on line. I really don't know how they make money, I do my own fitting it's not that difficult.

So because we have club fitters, it proves that club fitted clubs improve your golf ? Really ?

SaveOurLyric

elgenerale wrote: »

Maintaining a strong position based on theory is just subbborn IMO.

Whereas taking a position based on myth and lack of evidence is sensible ?

Montgolfier

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

So what applies to wood, applies to tubular steel and graphite? And a wood characteristic that applies to steel and graphite must affect how well you play golf ?


So because we have club fitters, it proves that club fitted clubs improve your golf ? Really ?

Most golfers don't improve they find a comfort zone and are happy enough to play and enjoy the game it a leisure pursuit after all. Only a certain percentage are going to go the extra mile, it's like any sport you get out of it what you put in.
So yes really IMO.

elgenerale

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Whereas taking a position based on myth and lack of evidence is sensible ?

Come on!!!! I went for two fittings! You're just being ridiculous!

alxmorgan

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Same causation/correlation mistake, and extension of anecdote to general conclusion.

My issue with your approach is that when it comes to humans you cannot prove it as scientifically as you seem to want. In a lab I can prove the boiling point of alcohol but when you bring in people the burden of proof you are looking for is IMO unattainable.

I am not saying that fitting is the answer. I am not saying everyone should try it just to see if it works. I am not even saying there is an ideal setup...I retract ideal and replace with better.

So take my scenario....by finding a low spin driver through trial and error I have improved my driving considerably. That is based on 2 years with the original and 9 months with the new one.
So if I can make an improvement by switching club then my argument is that maybe a fitter can help shortcut the process.

GreeBo

elgenerale wrote: »

Come on!!!! I went for two fittings! You're just being ridiculous!

Why did you need two?
Having a different opinion on something that is unproven is patently not ridiculous.

alxmorgan wrote: »

So if I can make an improvement by switching club then my argument is that maybe a fitter can help shortcut the process.

You made an improvement and you bought a new club, there is no direct causation that you can prove.
I'm sure you also did lots of other things since buying the club?

This is the sort of link that has people wearing their lucky blue jocks for a cup final.

BOB81

GreeBo wrote: »

I would put flex up there with length & lie actually.

You have to really change your the unloading part of your swing if the flex is very wrong for you. It can be done, but its the same as bending down more if your clubs are too long, its just not right.

If you are saying that length, lie and shaft flex are important then surely you are acknowledging that clubfitting has some merit then? Dont have a particular dog in this fight but i had an iron fitting a couple of years back and the specs they suggested and that i changed to were the above ones. Clubfitting for me is saying is my good shot with this particular fitted iron/driver going to be better (flight/spin rate etc) than my existing club, if the answer is yes then thats enough for me to give it a shot at least. Can also see the flipside in that long term improvement needs hard work and lessons but whatever small advantage you can gain from having properly set up clubs is worth considering imo

alxmorgan

GreeBo wrote: »

You made an improvement and you bought a new club, there is no direct causation that you can prove.
I'm sure you also did lots of other things since buying the club?

This is the sort of link that has people wearing their lucky blue jocks for a cup final.

You're reaching now. I played 2 years of a particular ball flight and it changed immediately when I switched driver. I even tested both against each other and unless somehow my swing was magically different with each one then I can see no reason to doubt it.

This is akin to me saying you had a lesson and you improved. How can you prove one caused the other ?

GreeBo

alxmorgan wrote: »

You're reaching now. I played 2 years of a particular ball flight and it changed immediately when I switched driver. I even tested both against each other and unless somehow my swing was magically different with each one then I can see no reason to doubt it.

This is akin to me saying you had a lesson and you improved. How can you prove one caused the other ?

It's not reaching at all, the placebo effect is very real.
A lesson identifies a general flaw in your swing, over the top for example. It doesn't say swing 2.2° this way and all will be fixed for ever more.

BOB81 wrote: »

If you are saying that length, lie and shaft flex are important then surely you are acknowledging that clubfitting has some merit then? Dont have a particular dog in this fight but i had an iron fitting a couple of years back and the specs they suggested and that i changed to were the above ones. Clubfitting for me is saying is my good shot with this particular fitted iron/driver going to be better (flight/spin rate etc) than my existing club, if the answer is yes then thats enough for me to give it a shot at least. Can also see the flipside in that long term improvement needs hard work and lessons but whatever small advantage you can gain from having properly set up clubs is worth considering imo

I don't think anyone disagrees with a basic level of club matching, the sort you can do yourself with a bit of research. But the idea that a club be handmade to perfectly suit an individual? Nah.

alxmorgan

GreeBo wrote: »

It's not reaching at all, the placebo effect is very real.
A lesson identifies a general flaw in your swing, over the top for example. It doesn't say swing 2.2° this way and all will be fixed for ever more.

I still think you're reaching. A placebo effect that lasts 9 months ?

GreeBo

alxmorgan wrote: »

I still think you're reaching. A placebo effect that lasts 9 months ?

If it can cure cancer and depression I think it can also handle your ball flight issues.

alxmorgan

GreeBo wrote: »

If it can cure cancer and depression I think it can also handle your ball flight issues.

I'll leave it there. You've gone outside the realms of a reasonable debate. I get enough of that at home from my 2 year old

GreeBo

alxmorgan wrote: »

I'll leave it there. You've gone outside the realms of a reasonable debate. I get enough of that at home from my 2 year old

The placebo effect is a very real and documented phenomenon.

alxmorgan

GreeBo wrote: »

The placebo effect is a very real and documented phenomenon.

I'm not doubting it. I just think you are using it to avoid accepting the fact that I could change my ball flight by doing nothing but changing driver.

Even accepting the placebo effect how would you explain the fact that I went through maybe 4 drivers between my original and current driver. How come the placebo effect only kicked in on the 4th yet I was immune to it on the other 3 ?

GreeBo

alxmorgan wrote: »

I'm not doubting it. I just think you are using it to avoid accepting the fact that I could change my ball flight by doing nothing but changing driver.

Even accepting the placebo effect how would you explain the fact that I went through maybe 4 drivers between my original and current driver. How come the placebo effect only kicked in on the 4th yet I was immune to it on the other 3 ?

Sure it can, I don't think anyone is denying that, every club is different.
I'm sure this driver will be yours forever more now that it has been actually fitted to your swing.

Did you pay someone to tell you the first 3 drivers were perfectly fitted for your swing?

alxmorgan

GreeBo wrote: »

Sure it can, I don't think anyone is denying that, every club is different.
I'm sure this driver will be yours forever more now that it has been actually fitted to your swing.

Did you pay someone to tell you the first 3 drivers were perfectly fitted for your swing?

As I said I was not fitted it was trial and error. And I did not say it was perfect for me I said it gave me a better ball flight than I had.

Now if you accept that every club is different and if you accept I found a driver "better" for me, then why not accept the possibility that there may be people out there than can shortcut the process of going from current club(s) to a better one(s) ?

GreeBo

alxmorgan wrote: »

As I said I was not fitted it was trial and error. And I did not say it was perfect for me I said it gave me a better ball flight than I had.

Now if you accept that every club is different and if you accept I found a driver "better" for me, then why not accept the possibility that there may be people out there than can shortcut the process of going from current club(s) to a better one(s) ?

Because I believe the difference between similar clubs is smaller than difference between your swings with those clubs.

In a bay you probably fall into a routine of highly similar swings that can be matched a club at low levels, but nobody plays golf under those circumstances.

alxmorgan

GreeBo wrote: »

Because I believe the difference between similar clubs is smaller than difference between your swings with those clubs.

In a bay you probably fall into a routine of highly similar swings that can be matched a club at low levels, but nobody plays golf under those circumstances.

All I can say is that my old driver had a ballooning flight on it. Even my best hits had that tendency. I was never happy with it. My new driver never balloons. It was like a light switch.

And this is not me sticking up for fitting cause I parted with my money and need to justify it. I did not get fit as I said. Other than that I don't know what more I can say.

GreeBo

alxmorgan wrote: »

All I can say is that my old driver had a ballooning flight on it. Even my best hits had that tendency. I was never happy with it. My new driver never balloons. It was like a light switch.

And this is not me sticking up for fitting cause I parted with my money and need to justify it. I did not get fit as I said. Other than that I don't know what more I can say.

Well if you were ballooning it then it was clearly as wrong for you as a senior flex would be for me, I fully accept that level of fitting required. I think anything else is bells and whistles to help part you from your money.

do you not think that half an hour in Halfpenny on a simulator with 10 clubs would have achieved same thing?

IITYWYBMAD

GreeBo wrote: »

Well if you were ballooning it then it was clearly as wrong for you as a senior flex would be for me, I fully accept that level of fitting required. I think anything else is bells and whistles to help part you from your money.

do you not think that half an hour in Halfpenny on a simulator with 10 clubs would have achieved same thing?

So you accept that a level of "fitting" is required....Are you not just playing with words?

Secondly, with regards to your "half an hour in Halfpenny" (I assume you mean Halpenny Golf???) What's the difference in doing 30 minutes in that establishment versus another? Surely you would need advice from Halpenny, setup of the monitoring tools etc...,

I don't really see the difference between doing 30 minutes in one place versus 30 minutes in another. Perhaps you would care to explain?

alxmorgan

GreeBo wrote: »

Well if you were ballooning it then it was clearly as wrong for you as a senior flex would be for me, I fully accept that level of fitting required. I think anything else is bells and whistles to help part you from your money.

do you not think that half an hour in Halfpenny on a simulator with 10 clubs would have achieved same thing?

Having not gone for a fitting what bells and whistles exactly are you referring to ?

It might have. But would your average punter who knows nothing about launch monitor numbers be confident in doing this ? Or perhaps the 10 clubs they pick missed out on the type they needed ?

For example I play the 910 D3 which is less than 460cc. I would have never considered playing it previously as would have considered it for better players than me and being less than 460 would have made me think it was not forgiving enough. But I was wrong.

Are you rejecting the idea that a club fitter has any expertise that a punter would not have ? That they for example could look at someones numbers, listen to what they say about their tendencies and narrow down their choices based on experience and knowledge of how certain clubs perform ?

Milkers

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."

- Bertrand Russell

alxmorgan

Milkers wrote: »

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."

- Bertrand Russell

I like that so much I think I'm going to make it my signature

elgenerale

GreeBo wrote: »

Why did you need two?

I didnt need two. I went twice to be sure of the results. And please dont make another smart comment like you did the previous time you responded to me.

Its nearly impossible not to 'attack' the poster in this case. You are squirming in every direction possible to avoid admitting you're wrong. In all the threads you've been bellicose the result has been the same. Someone else has received cards. I've received a yellow already for replying in a similar tone to yours. And I see another poster has received a red.

And I just see you have admitted some level of fitting is required. Somehow you'll try to say that is completely different. What seems to be the common thread running through your arguments is "you wont be separated from a few bob by charlatans when you know far more about golf than they do". So you'll fit yourself in halpenny. I'm sorry but if you know more about golf than anyone else you'd be a lower handicap or coaching to a high level. Your reaction to Gorey and scratch golfers in general showed up this sore point in your psyche.

I showed this thread to someone who's never been on boards before and its your posts he found ridiculous. You're like the doctor who tells a patient with back pain not to go to a physio or osteopath because it doesn't work. But the patient goes and it works. When he returns to the doctor he says only two possibilities exist. You either spontaneously recovered around the time you went or you're pretending to be better because no double blind placebo studies have been done to prove it works.

I'm leaving this forum until you've been removed as a Mod. Your role is completely at odds with your behaviour.

shabalala

GreeBo wrote: »

Well if you were ballooning it then it was clearly as wrong for you as a senior flex would be for me, I fully accept that level of fitting required. I think anything else is bells and whistles to help part you from your money.

do you not think that half an hour in Halfpenny on a simulator with 10 clubs would have achieved same thing?

Do you think 30mins on a simulator with a crash course trained member of staff in halpenny or otherwise would achieve the same thing as a full hour with say Foregolf or Birr golf range, using the latest trackman/flightscope technology with award winning industry experts hitting balls where you can see the actual ball flight would all achieve the same results??

Add to that foregolf hand build the clubs as opposed to them coming from a mass production line through halpenny ordering from the manufacturer.

You must have a personal gripe with custom fitting or foregolf (you closed the thread about FG)

Rikand

If you can't say something nice about someone, don't say anything at all.

Or better yet, just stick them on ignore. Certainly makes my life a lot easier

slave1

Rikand wrote: »

If you can't say something nice about someone, don't say anything at all.

Or better yet, just stick them on ignore. Certainly makes my life a lot easier

You just made my day, no my week, ah sure feck it my YEAR, never knew this existed, now my life on this forum will be sooooooo much easier

shabalala

slave1 wrote: »

You just made my day, no my week, ah sure feck it my YEAR, never knew this existed, now my life on this forum will be sooooooo much easier

Its a very bad reflection on this forum if you have to press the ignore button for a Mod.

Beasty

Right - I've had enough of the problems this thread is causing and I'm closing it. I will review what's been going on when I get chance, but don't hold out for the thread being re-opened

As always, any questions PM me