Clubfitting

DuckSlice

Just so you dont think i am making it up here is a list of the exact clubs i have with lofts!

http://www.ironfinder.com/Individual-Irons/wilson/deep_red-02.htm

And the mizuno jpx 825 pro's

http://golf.mizunoeurope.com/irons/jpx825-pro/

Dossy

big_drive wrote: »

When I was fitted by Foregolf my Pitching wedge loft was changed from 44* to 48* so I should have lost distance you'd think. but I actually gained approx 10/12 yards in distance so it's not just about loft on club. More than anything it's the shaft. If you're hitting it out of middle club face more often distance will improve.

What shafts were you advised to get?
What was your swing and ball speed?

John Divney

Some peoples swing type and speed make traditional gapping of lofts useless to them, they don't hit a 4 iron further than a 5, it becomes diminishing returns. So gapping the lofts irregularly is personal and a help.

What matters is the spin and ball flight, you play a club that gives the six iron trajectory, for your set, the gaps between that club and the other don't matter, only the flight of the ball, and thus disatance gap,

The shaft to me is not as massive here, weaker loft, more spin, higher launch, more carry. (For some)

DuckSlice

John Divney wrote: »

Some peoples swing type and speed make traditional gapping of lofts useless to them, they don't hit a 4 iron further than a 5, it becomes diminishing returns. So gapping the lofts irregularly is personal and a help.

What matters is the spin and ball flight, you play a club that gives the six iron trajectory, for your set, the gaps between that club and the other don't matter, only the flight of the ball, and thus disatance gap,

The shaft to me is not as massive here, weaker loft, more spin, higher launch, more carry. (For some)

Different shafts will give different launch, different spin, deliver different dynamic loft. The shaft is the engine of the club if you like.

AOH77A

Shaft effect on launch angle and spin will depend on the type of swing. For smooth tempo early release swing, thye shaft will have minimal effect. For a quick tempo, late release swing with fast transition shaft may have some influence on launch angle and spin rate.

However the biggest effect on launch angle and spin rate is loft.

DuckSlice

AOH77A wrote: »

Shaft effect on launch angle and spin will depend on the type of swing. For smooth tempo early release swing, thye shaft will have minimal effect. For a quick tempo, late release swing with fast transition shaft may have some influence on launch angle and spin rate.

However the biggest effect on launch angle and spin rate is loft.

but it all depends on the type of shaft, there is certain shafts which will be designed for smooth swings and certain ones that are designed for quick swings. if you have a low kick shaft the ball will launch higher and if you have a high kick shaft the ball will launch lower.

AOH77A

Great article from Tom Wishon. Explains everything you need to know about shafts.

http://www.golfwrx.com/6419/tom-wishon-talking-to-wrx-readers-10-myths-about-shafts-factual-info-about-shafts-to-help-you-all/

DuckSlice

AOH77A wrote: »

Great article from Tom Wishon. Explains everything you need to know about shafts.

http://www.golfwrx.com/6419/tom-wishon-talking-to-wrx-readers-10-myths-about-shafts-factual-info-about-shafts-to-help-you-all/

I could read something else and they will counteract everything he says. He does say tho that a shaft can effect dynamic loft which is what I was saying! More loft equals more spin (generally). Anyway this is going slightly off topic!

big_drive

Dossy wrote: »

What shafts were you advised to get?
What was your swing and ball speed?

I had an old set of King Cobra oversize irons with the stock shafts (regular flex)

I now have a set of Wilson Staff FG tour irons with Dynamic Gold SL X100 shafts

I don't know much about ball speed etc. I do know my average swing speed with a driver is 103 mph

AOH77A

Apologies if you think this is going of topic but good information like this should help everyone.
I agree that you could and will read articles and posts that may not agree with Tom. Good chance they would be incorrect and written by people with less knowledge and practical fitting experience in the golf industry.

levitronix

big_drive wrote: »

I had an old set of King Cobra oversize irons with the stock shafts (regular flex)

I now have a set of Wilson Staff FG tour irons with Dynamic Gold SL X100 shafts

I don't know much about ball speed etc. I do know my average swing speed with a driver is 103 mph

that was one of the best things with the fitting, checking out the swing speed and smash factor, my 3 wood ws coming in just over the 100mph and driver areound 108mph, cool to see the spin rates too with the differnet shafts

DuckSlice

AOH77A wrote: »

Apologies if you think this is going of topic but good information like this should help everyone.
I agree that you could and will read articles and posts that may not agree with Tom. Good chance they would be incorrect and written by people with less knowledge and practical fitting experience in the golf industry.

Well it's fairly simple science at the end of the day. Let's say someone swings with a steady swing with a constant acceleration, the shaft will deflect with the result being the cub head trailing or been left behind the shaft, this action will decrease loft on the club head and reduce spin. Now take someone that has also a steady swing but lots more wrist hinge. As they release their wrists the arms slow down causing the club head to get ahead of the shaft this will deliver more loft to the ball and more spin. So getting the right shaft is vital. There is also torque to consider aswell. Wilson calculates that for every cm of defection you lose/gain .8* of loft.

AOH77A

etxp wrote: »

Well it's fairly simple science at the end of the day. Let's say someone swings with a steady swing with a constant acceleration, the shaft will deflect with the result being the cub head trailing or been left behind the shaft, this action will decrease loft on the club head and reduce spin. Now take someone that has also a steady swing but lots more wrist hinge. As they release their wrists the arms slow down causing the club head to get ahead of the shaft this will deliver more loft to the ball and more spin. So getting the right shaft is vital. There is also torque to consider aswell. Wilson calculates that for every cm of defection you lose/gain .8* of loft.

I agree that that a swing with a quick transition and a late release will have effect on launch angle, trajectory and spin.
However for a smooth swing with early release there is negligable effect as by the time the clubhead gets to the ball, the shaft will have had time to flex back to a virtual straight.

onlyfinewine

I'm glad to hear that it is fairly simple science. I don't know how the crowd in foregolf stay in business as it is so simple? Just a quick question, How do you make the human body swing with a steady swing and a constant acceleration so that you can come to your conclusions?

etxp wrote: »

Well it's fairly simple science at the end of the day. Let's say someone swings with a steady swing with a constant acceleration, the shaft will deflect with the result being the cub head trailing or been left behind the shaft, this action will decrease loft on the club head and reduce spin. Now take someone that has also a steady swing but lots more wrist hinge. As they release their wrists the arms slow down causing the club head to get ahead of the shaft this will deliver more loft to the ball and more spin. So getting the right shaft is vital. There is also torque to consider aswell. Wilson calculates that for every cm of defection you lose/gain .8* of loft.

DuckSlice

onlyfinewine wrote: »

I'm glad to hear that it is fairly simple science. I don't know how the crowd in foregolf stay in business as it is so simple? Just a quick question, How do you make the human body swing with a steady swing and a constant acceleration so that you can come to your conclusions?

well its hardly rocket science now is it? I never said clubfitting was easy i just said they way the shaft bends is simple science, acceleration and club head speed and bending are hardly complex.

maybe a constant acceleration was the wrong thing to say although im sure if you trained long enough you could achieve a swing with constant acceleration. Your club head should accelerate on your down swing, maybe not at a constant and not stop accelerating until you hit the ball idealy. no point having your peak clubhead speed half way down your downswing. anyway it makes sense in my head!

Foregolf dont go into the science of it, they know the characteristics of individual shafts, the numbers and their experience tell them which shaft is best. you try it out, if it doesnt work, you try another one. not to take away from what they do. they do a cracking job and are very good at it.

this is getting very off topic, this is a feedback thread for Foregolf

levitronix

Got my 3 wood and hybrid today, and not to mention the free green fee for Killeen castle, so the fitting is a little bit better value than I thought

big_drive

Ya the free green fee is a nice touch.

bustercherry

levitronix wrote: »

Got my 3 wood and hybrid today, and not to mention the free green fee for Killeen castle, so the fitting is a little bit better value than I thought

One free green fee?

big_drive

One free and you can bring others with you at a reduced rate

John Divney

etxp wrote: »

Different shafts will give different launch, different spin, deliver different dynamic loft. The shaft is the engine of the club if you like.

Not nearly as much in the irons, in fact for the average player i'd make it negligible on ball flight whether they use a regular or stiff dynamic gold set. not even a degree of launch perhaps. And that.s if you can hit a set of balls consistently enough to even measure, which is not going to happen with the double figure hc,er and even some single figure lads too.
The centre of gravity, loft and angle of attack are the main factors for ball flight. For feel, yes, but this can be totally subjective and not based on performance.

I accept those with late release and very fast swing speed who are consistent ball strikers may benefit big time from shaft tuning, but the average hacker has bought way to much into shaft marketing.

With a Driver and woods yes the shaft is far more vital, faster swing, longer shaft, more torque, more load, lighter shafts, and flexes that just are not consistent from manufacturer to manufacturer.

Getting fit for a Driver is the first thing i'd do, I'd not really be arsed about the irons. I'd only really pay the money if I was really struggling with ball flight, but then again I'd be using less irons and more hybrids if that was the case, and could probably patch up a set of lofts myself.

DuckSlice

levitronix wrote: »

Got my 3 wood and hybrid today, and not to mention the free green fee for Killeen castle, so the fitting is a little bit better value than I thought

I didn't get a green fee.

Edit- I did get a green fee. Delighted with it

DuckSlice

John Divney wrote: »

Not nearly as much in the irons, in fact for the average player i'd make it negligible on ball flight whether they use a regular or stiff dynamic gold set. not even a degree of launch perhaps. And that.s if you can hit a set of balls consistently enough to even measure, which is not going to happen with the double figure hc,er and even some single figure lads too.
The centre of gravity, loft and angle of attack are the main factors for ball flight. For feel, yes, but this can be totally subjective and not based on performance.

I accept those with late release and very fast swing speed who are consistent ball strikers may benefit big time from shaft tuning, but the average hacker has bought way to much into shaft marketing.

With a Driver and woods yes the shaft is far more vital, faster swing, longer shaft, more torque, more load, lighter shafts, and flexes that just are not consistent from manufacturer to manufacturer.

Getting fit for a Driver is the first thing i'd do, I'd not really be arsed about the irons. I'd only really pay the money if I was really struggling with ball flight, but then again I'd be using less irons and more hybrids if that was the case, and could probably patch up a set of lofts myself.

I benefitted more from the iron fitting than I did from the driver fitting. My driver wasn't far off from what I got fitted for however the irons were a massive difference. Dispersion went from 4000sq yards to 270. I must post a pic of my spec sheet at the weekend to show the comparison between irons!

John Divney

What did you change from out of interest, and what sort of swing do you have?

DuckSlice

John Divney wrote: »

What did you change from out of interest, and what sort of swing do you have?

Wilson fat shafts - jpx 825 pro. The Wilson's were too heavy for me causing me to get out of shape on the downswing. Have a fairly normal swing, swing speed was I think about 86mph on my irons and I was getting 173 carry on the six iron, 155 on the old 6 iron.

Russman

etxp wrote: »

Wilson fat shafts - jpx 825 pro. The Wilson's were too heavy for me causing me to get out of shape on the downswing. Have a fairly normal swing, swing speed was I think about 86mph on my irons and I was getting 173 carry on the six iron, 155 on the old 6 iron.

18 yards is a pretty huge increase on a 6 iron, fair play.

Do you think it was that the old set were just so unsuited to you they were (unknown to you) holding you back, or are the JPX that much better ?

benny79

Could I also ask what your HC is?

John Divney

etxp wrote: »

Wilson fat shafts - jpx 825 pro. The Wilson's were too heavy for me causing me to get out of shape on the downswing. Have a fairly normal swing, swing speed was I think about 86mph on my irons and I was getting 173 carry on the six iron, 155 on the old 6 iron.

That's a big upgrade in quality though, not just the shafts.

My point is if you tried two shafts in the jpx, what was the difference in performance, or was it a feel preference?

DuckSlice

Russman wrote: »

18 yards is a pretty huge increase on a 6 iron, fair play.

Do you think it was that the old set were just so unsuited to you they were (unknown to you) holding you back, or are the JPX that much better ?

I think they probably were holding me back a bit. I was missing my irons left about 8 out of 10 times. The jpx's felt so much nicer, partly due to the fact they are forged I would think.

benny79 wrote: »

Could I also ask what your HC is?

Playing off 13

John Divney wrote: »

That's a big upgrade in quality though, not just the shafts.

My point is if you tried two shafts in the jpx, what was the difference in performance, or was it a feel preference?

I tried the Nippon 1150 first and felt ok, but still wasn't getting a great strike, 50% of them were still a bit high off the face. Then tried the Nippon 950 shaft both were stiff, and was a massive difference, 90% of the strikes were out of the sweet spot and just felt amazing. Such a lovely feel from them.

big_drive

I'd feel I got more out of my irons as well, the number of greens I started hitting in regulation shot up. The result of hitting more greens meant a certain level of pressure was taken off my chipping & putting

Also the big difference was my bad shots weren't as "bad" if you know what I mean. Before the fitting a bad shot might have meant a lost ball or out of bounds. Now a bad shot might just be a missed green or wayward direction but generally the ball is still in play with a chance to recover.

Russman

etxp wrote: »

due to the fact they are forged I would think.

Lets not start THAT war !! :D

DuckSlice

Russman wrote: »

Lets not start THAT war !! :D

Haha, I will have to edit that out!!!

Edit- earlier I said I didn't get a free green fee, however I did get one, my mistake. Happy out

levitronix

Just back from a visit to foregolf and I can say I will never be back with them again !
I had a Titleist 3 wood and taylormade hybrid reshafted by them a few weeks ago, the clubs perform perfect the fitting was spot on but the quality of work done by them is brutal.
My 3 wood was reshafted reusing the titleist surefit adapter which is fine but the ferrule they put on the end of the shaft is a joke ... the finished job looks like something you would of got done by local pro 20 years ago !!
Today I was with them ready to get my driver reshafted and my 3 iron but before I was ready to pay the deposit I asked to speak to the club fitter asking could they use a better fitting ferrule when doing the driver reshaft. That's where it went down hill, apparently they cant source the correct replacement parts to give you back the clubs as you wanted them, this is what the fitter told me !
2014-02-12 13.56.02.jpg

From the attached picture you can see the small ferrule and its covered still in epoxy I could of done a better job my self!

If things had of gone well today I was ready to order my mizuno mp 54 4-pw but the impression I got from the women who worked reception was that they come from mizuno made up !! when you order certain brands !! anything except taylormade !!

Im my opinion this is not precision club making

Russman

levitronix wrote: »

Just back from a visit to foregolf and I can say I will never be back with them again !
I had a Titleist 3 wood and taylormade hybrid reshafted by them a few weeks ago, the clubs perform perfect the fitting was spot on but the quality of work done by them is brutal.
My 3 wood was reshafted reusing the titleist surefit adapter which is fine but the ferrule they put on the end of the shaft is a joke ... the finished job looks like something you would of got done by local pro 20 years ago !!
Today I was with them ready to get my driver reshafted and my 3 iron but before I was ready to pay the deposit I asked to speak to the club fitter asking could they use a better fitting ferrule when doing the driver reshaft. That's where it went down hill, apparently they cant source the correct replacement parts to give you back the clubs as you wanted them, this is what the fitter told me !
2014-02-12 13.56.02.jpg

From the attached picture you can see the small ferrule and its covered still in epoxy I could of done a better job my self!

If things had of gone well today I was ready to order my mizuno mp 54 4-pw but the impression I got from the women who worked reception was that they come from mizuno made up !! when you order certain brands !! anything except taylormade !!

Im my opinion this is not precision club making

+1

If you know the shaft you want/need in your driver, you could just source it online or get a local PGA Pro who knows what he's doing to order it and fit it. Probably come in similar cost to Foregolf ?

Edit: I mean pick a pro who is reputable for repairs etc, not meant as a dig at Foregolf, ie suggesting a pro knows what he's doing as opposed to FG.
Edit2: although if the cap fits......... :-)

John Divney

Jesus that's dreadful quality, there are lads on here who would have done better and got the ferule off eBay ffs

benny79

Did you tell them it was a terrible job? how much it set you back? FG live on their reputation so im sure they would of going beyond the call of duty, so I have heard from people who have dealt with them!

Tin_Cup

Really surprised to hear of your experience levitronix. Have to say any of the work I have had done and also my friends has always been top notch.

Perhaps might be worth giving the guys a mail or call to discuss?

levitronix

All i can say is foregolf have great customer service , but at my visit today it wasnt 100% but their follow up was 100%. so it looks like my problem is being resolved.
I still have the view that i expressed in my review about the fitting session its worth the money and invaluable to every golfer.

DuckSlice

I'm pretty sure every club is built and not just ordered in from the manufacture. Glad to hear you are getting it all sorted. FG customer service is very good.

e.r

etxp wrote: »

I'm pretty sure every club is built and not just ordered in from the manufacture. Glad to hear you are getting it all sorted. FG customer service is very good.

I would disagree, as I got ping i20's irons two years ago in fg.

And last year I wanted to get the gap wedge of the set, so I went into mcguirks with the code of the hosel and they ordered the club of ping and came back exact same spec.

At the time when I bought the clubs off fg, I could of bought them in mcguirks for cheaper and would of been exactly the same .

Custom fit me arse

neckedit

e.r wrote: »

I would disagree, as I got ping i20's irons two years ago in fg.

And last year I wanted to get the gap wedge of the set, so I went into mcguirks with the code of the hosel and they ordered the club of ping and came back exact same spec.

At the time when I bought the clubs off fg, I could of bought them in mcguirks for cheaper and would of been exactly the same .

Custom fit me arse

They are custom Fit, not custom built,
I stand to be corrected but I don't think any manufacturer will issue component parts to any account, maybe with 1 exception, They adjust on site and do a lot of retro fitting.

e.r

neckedit wrote: »

[/U][/B]

They are custom Fit, not custom built,
I stand to be corrected but I don't think any manufacturer will issue component parts to any account, maybe with 1 exception, They adjust on site and do a lot of retro fitting.

That's what I was hoping for tbh. I knew I wanted the i20's . And was thinking they'd stick a superduper shaft on them .
Not pings cfs stock shafts.
Fwiw the fitting part was decent

DuckSlice

Well I have no doubts that my clubs were custom built. If yours weren't maybe you should take it up with them?

Dr_Colossus

etxp wrote: »

Well I have no doubts that my clubs were custom built. If yours weren't maybe you should take it up with them?

+1, when I got my set of irons from ForeGolf I tried to use vouchers I had in McGuirks to purchase similar speced wedges. After much emails and phone calls later the confirmation from the manufactured was that they couldn't supply my required ("head & shaft") combination and in addition they wouldn't/couldn't supply the heads on their own for me to retrofit.
Also in the iron set from ForeGolf I was also given options as to what grips and layers of tape and even ferrules I wanted to use.

e.r

Lads I ain't saying they don't work on clubs etc.
Plus the shafts I got were possibly the best suited to my swing

Furthermore I would totally recommend going to Fg. Because I chopped and changed irons after a couple of bad rounds. I still have the irons I got from Fg as I know it's the Indian not the arrows 😀

Golfer59

I had a terrible experience with foregolf, they put shafts in my wedges that never suited my swing,

Annoyingly they don't let you see Your stats from flightscope, will never go back to them as a result.

gorfield

I don't understand people's issue here?
Foregolf are the only company in Europe that suppliers send heads to on a special license and allow Foregolf to build the clubs onsite!
When multi million dollar companies are putting their trust in a family business it tells me they're doing things right, I certainly wouldn't trust anyone else to work on my clubs!
Also golfer59 did you not see the big screen with all your stats and data on it in the bay?

Golfer59

sorry just giving my feedback on them, when i compare their service to the service in the titleist centre big difference!! everyone has their own opinion i guess

big_drive

I was fitted there twice. Once in their old place and more recently in Killeen Castle. In Killeen all the data from flight scope was behind me on the monitor, could turn around and see it anytime I wanted.

Also there is no way the clubs come from manufacturer assembled. I know for 100% that I got irons with shafts that a certain manufacturer would not supply so it was Foregolf who did the building/assembling

neckedit

gorfield wrote: »

I don't understand people's issue here?
Foregolf are the only company in Europe that suppliers send heads to on a special license and allow Foregolf to build the clubs onsite!
When multi million dollar companies are putting their trust in a family business it tells me they're doing things right, I certainly wouldn't trust anyone else to work on my clubs!
Also golfer59 did you not see the big screen with all your stats and data on it in the bay?

I don;t think there is an issue here, people are just giving their own valid opinion on a service they received from the lads at Fore Golf in the main very good, but a little critique now and then never hurts anybody and if the lads are as professional as they appear to be they will welcome critics too. I made a few calls yesterday (very quiet day in the shop) and all but 2 of the main suppliers supply the Lads with component parts, So I apologies for misleading many on the "custom build" view I put forward. The majority is built on site.

the lawman

Warning long post:

Let me tell you a story about Derek and FG.

I was fitted in Naas four years ago and enjoyed the experience of it all. Got burner 2.0 and was chuffed.

Fast forward 2 years and there was a thread on here about fake Burner 2.0 irons. Me, in my naivety started believing mine were fake. I posted in the thread saying I thought mine were fake too. Never mentioned where they were from but a simple post history check would have shown FG. I rang FG the next day and Derek himself rang me back reassuring me and also sent me on the authenticity forms. He was pretty pissed off and rightly so.

I apologised for making the post without checking the facts first. He said no worries lets move on.

Fast forward another 6 months and I make a booking in Killeen for a bag review. Derek did it. Welcomed me like an old friend. Treated me brilliantly and gave me some tips. I was confused. I was pretty sure he didn't know who I was.

So I mailed him when I got home and asked him did I know that I was the dude we had words about fake clubs. He said of course he knew and I asked why he was so decent and warm to me? He replied that I had said sorry and that it was done.

That's the mark of the man and the all round attitude down there. Great people who are the best at what they do. Everyone is treated like a touring pro when you visit.

Sorry for long winded story.