Ulster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

danthefan

iHumph is far too flaky to be a HEC winning OH imo. And the guy actually gets out of the way of tackles at times.

sock puppet

danthefan wrote: »

iHumph is far too flaky to be a HEC winning OH imo. And the guy actually gets out of the way of tackles at times.

True. He seems totally unable/unwilling to work on it.

Blut2

I think (but could be corrected on this) that with Afoa and Payne arriving Ulster will have no NIQ spots left. Somehow managing to get Tommy Bowe to get off the sinking Ospreys ship and come home would be even better than signing another NIQ player if they could pull it off though (could they buy out the remaining 2 years on his contract? If the Ospreys are desperately short of funds and trying to trim their wage bill as reported it mightnt be too outlandish an idea).

CatFromHue

danthefan wrote: »

guy actually gets out of the way of tackles at times.

he is a gentleman. he politely steps aside and says after you

he was exposed a few times on friday night.

contrast that with ronan "the chiropractor" o gara (the hit on biggar, the tackle on bowe) on sat night who got stuck in as best he could.

roycon

sock puppet wrote: »

Hmm might have been a bit much. Thinking mainly of Goode and Skrela. Not a lot better would probably be a better description.

dont forget paul burke i think he was a finalist in the heineken cup if not a winner and that useless guy king at wasps. ian humphreys is more comfortable with contact than ronan ogara

GerM

roycon wrote: »

dont forget paul burke i think he was a finalist in the heineken cup if not a winner and that useless guy king at wasps. ian humphreys is more comfortable with contact than ronan ogara

Burke never played in a HEC final.

King was far from useless. He led Wasps to an absolute glut of trophies. A couple of HEC wins, a CC win and 3 or 4 Premiership titles. He was organised, kicked his goals and made his tackles. He suited Wasps down to the ground. He was unfortunate that England had Wilkinson, Catt and Grayson playing at the same time as he was at his peak or he would have had a fair few more caps.

Humphreys played in a HEC final in 2007. He was brought on when the game was already lost and King had kicked Wasps to their 2nd title. He was with Leicester for 3 years and only started 2 HEC games due to injuries to Goode. It's near impossible to win a HEC with an outhalf who will not defend and Humphreys is someone who will avoid contact. ROG relishes contact in comparison which says a lot. He will throw himself in the way of any ball carrier. He'll be smashed like a rag doll but he will try. Humphreys will be hailing a taxi to get himself the hell out of there in the same scenario.

CatFromHue

i always liked alex king from wasps. he was far from useless too.

roycon

that was 5 years ago, humphreys has gotten better since then in fairness. king was behind barkley,hodgson,grayson,wilkinson,catt and a whole host of other players. i think humphreys performed well in this seasons heineken cup and theres no moments where i can identify his defence as giving away points.

to say ogara is even moderately good at running with the ball , showing any aggression or defence is a joke

CatFromHue

roycon wrote: »

to say ogara is even moderately good at running with the ball , showing any aggression or defence is a joke

well if you compare their last game rog made more tackles and showed alot more aggression than hump.

for along time rog's technique at tackling was awful, still is sometimes. he never just let anyone walk by him though. even if he just had the effect of a speed bump.

GerM

roycon wrote: »

that was 5 years ago, humphreys has gotten better since then in fairness. king was behind barkley,hodgson,grayson,wilkinson,catt and a whole host of other players. i think humphreys performed well in this seasons heineken cup and theres no moments where i can identify his defence as giving away points.

to say ogara is even moderately good at running with the ball , showing any aggression or defence is a joke

I don't think anyone is talking about ROG's running game. Defensively, he puts himself in the way. His technique is atrocious but he doesn't lack in the bravery stakes. This is why we see him bounced. Humphreys actually ran away from Heaslip at one point the other night and not when he was the one with the ball. He is, and always has been, a shocking defender. He doesn't get bounced because he ensures he doesn't get in the carriers way. His career has suffered greatly as a result. Coaches have purposely not selected him on the basis of his defence. He's a superb runner and distributor but he is a non-entity in defence.

As for King, he was rated by plenty. He was forced to pull out of several England squads through injury including the 2003 WC squad. He was in and out of the England squad for about 3 or 4 years but it coincided with Wilkinson's heyday and King was not much of a defender until Shaun Edwards started working with him in about 2002 which held him back significantly. Once King was the wrong side of 30 he was never going to get much of a look in. He had some bad luck with several injuries and bad timing. If he had been around 3 or 4 years earlier, he would have had 30 caps. He should have had them regardless Don't know how anyone can rate him as useless. As Rob Howley said "Alex King runs a back line better than anyone that I've ever played with". Clermont don't tend to sign useless foreign players either.

WeeBushy

GerM wrote: »

I don't think anyone is talking about ROG's running game. Defensively, he puts himself in the way. His technique is atrocious but he doesn't lack in the bravery stakes. This is why we see him bounced. Humphreys actually ran away from Heaslip at one point the other night and not when he was the one with the ball. He is, and always has been, a shocking defender. He doesn't get bounced because he ensures he doesn't get in the carriers way. His career has suffered greatly as a result. Coaches have purposely not selected him on the basis of his defence. He's a superb runner and distributor but he is a non-entity in defence.

His unwillingness to even try and tackle baffles me. One can criticise O'Gara all they like for being a bad defender, but you can't question that he at least tries. As you said, you can't question his bravery. How a professional rugby player can outright refuse to tackle is crazy. If that were to happen in one of my J4 matches our coach would go ballistic.

Tim Robbins

WeeBushy wrote: »

His unwillingness to even try and tackle baffles me. One can criticise O'Gara all they like for being a bad defender, but you can't question that he at least tries. As you said, you can't question his bravery. How a professional rugby player can outright refuse to tackle is crazy. If that were to happen in one of my J4 matches our coach would go ballistic.

I think if O'Gara was playing J4 he'd nail people :-)

Tackling is probably 40% strength, 60% technique.

O'Gara's technique is poor but so is his strength. Andrew Trimble has poor technique but can get away with it because of his upper body strength is immense. I think Rob Kearny is almost as bad as O'Gara. Geordan Murphy isn't exactly great either.

Stringer has pretty poort strength (for international rugby he's small) but he has superb technique so can at least get his man down.

Wheeker

sock puppet wrote: »

True. He seems totally unable/unwilling to work on it.

CatFromHue wrote: »

he is a gentleman. he politely steps aside and says after you he was exposed a few times on friday night.

GerM wrote: »

Humphreys will be hailing a taxi to get himself the hell out of there in the same scenario.

GerM wrote: »

Humphreys actually ran away from Heaslip at one point the other night and not when he was the one with the ball. He is, and always has been, a shocking defender. His career has suffered greatly as a result. Coaches have purposely not selected him on the basis of his defence. He's a superb runner and distributor but he is a non-entity in defence.

WeeBushy wrote: »

His unwillingness to even try and tackle baffles me. How a professional rugby player can outright refuse to tackle is crazy. If that were to happen in one of my J4 matches our coach would go ballistic.

I really can't believe the amount of iHumph bashing going on here. Let's not try to turn this into a O'Gara v iHumph debate. Now this is my opinion (& all of the above posters are entitled theirs :rolleyes:): I have watched pretty much all of Ulster's matches this season (thank you BBC NI ) and iHumph has come on leaps & bounds this season as regards his defending. He had an atrocious pre-season match v Bath & wasn't picked for the first 4/5 matches, with the totally woeful Niall O'Connor (good luck at Connacht!) getting selected ahead of him. Then NO'C got injured & iHumph got back on the team & ever since has played some superb rugby: I can think of at least 5/6 tries which were purely down to his attacking verve, which as a spectator makes him a very exciting player to watch. His kicking was absolutely flawless for quite a few matches. His defending has improved immeasurably, I can only think of maybe 3 or 4 bad missed tackles in the rest of the season. Yes, I have seen Ulster put him on the wing for defensive plays to protect him & last Friday I saw Leinster very deliberately seek him out when attacking (though I certainly don't remember him running away from Heaslip). However, I don't think there's many out-halves in the game who could take-down Heaslip or O'Brien at full pelt.

Traditionally out-halves have always been shy about tackling (with the obvious exception of Wilkinson), it has always been the back rows job to cover. FWIW- O'Gara was an atrocious defender for many years, but he too has improved.

I just hate the way if something gets said often enough (as above) it seems to become an accepted fact. I remember people quoting George Hook's infamous line "Tommy Bowe is not an International class winger" for a long time before everyone finally accepted it was bulls**t. Believe it or not players can improve their games as they mature. .

Here's an interview with him, I think he's actually a very grounded guy who realises what parts of his game he needs to work on: http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/heineken-cup/hair-apparent-1920980.html

CatFromHue

Wheeker wrote: »

I don't think there's many out-halves in the game who could take-down Heaslip or O'Brien at full pelt.

Prob not, but most would attempt to.

Most people are giving out about his defensive abilities. He can be very good attacking wise and is a good goal kicker. He is also 29 so is now in the prime of his career.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Wheeker wrote: »

However, I don't think there's many out-halves in the game who could take-down Heaslip or O'Brien at full pelt.

I don't think anyone is asking Humphries to do so, rather to make an attempt at a tackle and slow him down five seconds so someone else can make a tackle easier.

Instead he chose to demonstrate a nice side step move to get out of the way iirc. Maybe he thought Heaslip was going to sidestep and the move would put him in his way.

EDIT By the way I say this with no disrespect to Ian, he is excellent in attack and he is sublime from the kicking tee (there is a reason he takes the kicks for Ulster when he is at 100% rather than Pienaar), just there are facets that upset and annoy me.

Jemo

Not getting into who is the better player/tackler, but you have to make the hit even if you cannot make the tackle. The impact will slow them down somewhat allowing your cover to take him down. Close to the line this isn't the case and you'll often see the Outhalf pushed out the line in the middle of some strong tacklers. But in open play any sort of obstacle is very important.

Whilst mentioning tackle technique, Jennings has to to display the best technique in the tournament. He quite literally tackles the ankles and takes them down in one swoop getting rid of all momentum. Great to watch and he rarely if ever falls off a tackle as a result.

I am pie

I watched most of the games on BBC2 as well, i agree he performed well in the second half of the season. My point is that to succeed at the highest level it's not enough to defend reasonably well most of the time.

Back row support for a ten in defense is a given i really believe that Ian would benefit from some serious pressure coming from another top flight no. 10 in the squad. Would maybe force him to work on his technique. We let other teams back into too many games this season through bad defending. In fairness Hump got us out a tight spot (as did Pienaar) with some excellent goal kicking. It would naive to believe there isn't a vulnerability there which needs to be addressed.

He could improve on the decision making a little as well i feel. Occasionally the risky play should happen in different areas of the pitch.

As a team we need to eliminate some basic handling errors to move on the next level. Shoulda woulda coulda tries against the likes of northampton were ruined by poor balls skills in crucial areas.

GerM

I don't think anyone could possibly debate Humphreys natural talent, Wheeker. He's a superb player when in possession and has a running and distribution game that many international out halves would be envious of. His goal kicking has also come along hugely from where it was to being one of the top goal kickers in Europe. He has a higher percentage than ROG this season.

But I certainly feel his defensive duties are neglected. He is a weak link for oppositions to look for and his own team do feel the need to hide him away from contact. If he had a defensive aspect to his game, he would have a strong claim to being in the Irish 22.

@Wheeker

@Wheeker, please post more. Even though there are parts of the post I don't agree with, it's so refreshing to have articulate people having debates here. There's nowhere near enough actively posting Ulster supporters on here either, you guys need to get out of your shells!

Tomtom364

Jemo wrote: »

Whilst mentioning tackle technique, Jennings has to to display the best technique in the tournament. He quite literally tackles the ankles and takes them down in one swoop getting rid of all momentum. Great to watch and he rarely if ever falls off a tackle as a result.

I wouldnt say this is the "best" technique. Tackling the ankles everytime allows the attacker the chance to offload in the tackle every time.

Jemo

Tomtom364 wrote: »

I wouldnt say this is the "best" technique. Tackling the ankles everytime allows the attacker the chance to offload in the tackle every time.

He usually hits them so suddenly that they more or less topple over before having the chance to offload. Most offloads come when it takes longer for the attacker to go to ground, they take the hit on the body and survey options as it is easier to pass whilst still on one's feet. Clearly if you body check someone it is even better but generally only the islanders or a double tackle can manage this successfully (and Trimble from time to time).

roycon

jennings did one of those brilliant tacles on that massive clermont 8 sione lauaki. just tripped him and he fell flat on his face. not many people can pull them off properly. you need brilliant timing. usually openisde flankers are specialists at it for taking down people that will bosh you if you dont like the tuilagis

I am pie

Very disappointed humphries missed his chance to play for the BaaBaas due to injury. Would have been a nice end to a long season for him. Very unlucky.

PhatPiggins

I am pie wrote: »

Very disappointed humphries missed his chance to play for the BaaBaas due to injury. Would have been a nice end to a long season for him. Very unlucky.

Pity, if there was ever a game where an excellent broken field runner and distributor like iHump was made for then it was this one. Tackling is optional in the BaBa's games too.

CIARAN_BOYLE

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/9374.php

Wow this is interesting, Ulster are putting a search for a second row forward by holding trials amoung tall males from all sporting backgrounds.

I believe that there is only one second row forward in the academy or subacademy so there is a bit of a shortage.

Their choice of age range is a little odd, looking for a man between the ages of 15 and 25 is a bit odd. Maybe top AIL players will show up at the screening day and Ulster will get one of the youngish AIL players into the senior squad. Other than that since the criteria includes competing in any team or individual sport I wouldn't think there would be much use attracting 25 year olds.

CatFromHue

one of the questions on the application form is

Please tick the number of years that you have been in a structured Physical Training Programme

The screening day will consists of:
Anthropometrics → height, Weight
Power → counter movement jump
Speed → 10, 30 meter sprints
Endurance → multistage fitness test
Agility → Modified agility test
Game Awareness → Invasion style game to include peripheral vision, decision making, work rate, catch / pass (core skills)

so i suppose if someone shows up with little or no time in a structured training programme but does very well on the tests, it would show that this person has plenty of potential.

CIARAN_BOYLE

CatFromHue wrote: »

so i suppose if someone shows up with little or no time in a structured training programme but does very well on the tests, it would show that this person has plenty of potential.

It looks to me like they are aiming at elite sportsmen from outside Rugby partially so the people accepted to take part in the trials would have spent a lot of time in structured programs. At least thats my understanding from reading

guapos

Seems to be an invite to GAA players, which is a good idea. plenty of county players would have made great rugby players.

I am pie

Pool 4: Leicester Tigers, Clermont Auvergne, ULSTER , Aironi.

Should beat Aironi home & away, and will face a huge challenge to take anything from tricky away ties in Leicester & Clermont Auvergne.

Would an extended Amlin cup run after the group stages represent a better chance of silverware ? Not feeling overly optimistic about getting out of this group unfortunately. Trickier than this years group definitely.

CatFromHue

its not impossible job but a very very hard one.

i can see all teams beating aironi both home and away.

i can see all teams winning their other two home games. ulsters record at home over the last two seasons in europe is very good as they are unbeaten.

i can see this group coming down to bonus points.

PhatPiggins

I am pie wrote: »

Pool 4: Leicester Tigers, Clermont Auvergne, ULSTER , Aironi.

Should beat Aironi home & away, and will face a huge challenge to take anything from tricky away ties in Leicester & Clermont Auvergne.

Would an extended Amlin cup run after the group stages represent a better chance of silverware ? Not feeling overly optimistic about getting out of this group unfortunately. Trickier than this years group definitely.

If Ulster progress in the next 12 months like they did in the last 12 then I'd be confident of them qualifying. They've a better squad now, Spence/Marshall/Gilroy/etc are only going to get better and they've made 2 cracking signings in Afoa and Payne. Most importantly though they've gained incredibly valuable HC experience. I can't remember the last time the most experienced team didn't win the HC final.

jolley123

PhatPiggins wrote: »

If Ulster progress in the next 12 months like they did in the last 12 then I'd be confident of them qualifying. They've a better squad now, Spence/Marshall/Gilroy/etc are only going to get better and they've made 2 cracking signings in Afoa and Payne. Most importantly though they've gained incredibly valuable HC experience. I can't remember the last time the most experienced team didn't win the HC final.

2009

roycon

northampton 2000 id say. leinster had been to the semis before

thomond2006

Munster 2008 or Wasps 2007 were very experienced sides IMO.

jolley123

roycon wrote: »

northampton 2000 id say. leinster had been to the semis before

Yeh but he said 'The most experienced team didn't win the final", and Leicester were by far the more experienced team.

PhatPiggins

roycon wrote: »

northampton 2000 id say. leinster had been to the semis before

Munster were hardly all that experienced in 2000

Anyway the point was the value of experience in the HC

jacothelad

It seems Ulster have signed an O'Mahony from Munster's academy. Not sure which one. Is there a David O'Mahony who is a second row? That's what Ulster need. I know of a Ronan and a Peter but don't think it's either of those. Strange......

GerM

jacothelad wrote: »

It seems Ulster have signed an O'Mahony from Munster's academy. Not sure which one. Is there a David O'Mahony who is a second row? That's what Ulster need. I know of a Ronan and a Peter but don't think it's either of those. Strange......

It's the second row David O'Mahony, alright. Makes sense given the abundance/dearth of locks in the provinces respectively.

jacothelad

GerM wrote: »

It's the second row David O'Mahony, alright. Makes sense given the abundance/dearth of locks in the provinces respectively.

What's he like Ger? I presume if he was really good Munster would have kept him to play alongside Nagle et al in the future.

GerM

jacothelad wrote: »

What's he like Ger? I presume if he was really good Munster would have kept him to play alongside Nagle et al in the future.

I honestly don't know, really. I can only assume he's not a world beater going on his selection record for the U20 side. He didn't make the WC squad and only had one start in the 6N. I'm not sure if injury played a part in his WC omission however. On MF it's mentioned that he has gone to Ulster on trial only.

PhatPiggins

jacothelad wrote: »

It seems Ulster have signed an O'Mahony from Munster's academy. Not sure which one. Is there a David O'Mahony who is a second row? That's what Ulster need. I know of a Ronan and a Peter but don't think it's either of those. Strange......

Excellent, we'll expect delivery of Spence and McAllister post haste.

O'Mahony could be a useful lock with more game time. He's behind 4 current Irish internationals and 2 future ones in Nagle and Foley (imo) so the fact that he's trying to move on is not an indication of a lack of talent.

CIARAN_BOYLE

GerM wrote: »

It's the second row David O'Mahony, alright. Makes sense given the abundance/dearth of locks in the provinces respectively.

Isn't he the Munster subacademy guy who couldn't get an offer from the main academy?

profitius

jacothelad wrote: »

What's he like Ger? I presume if he was really good Munster would have kept him to play alongside Nagle et al in the future.

Hes behind the 4 current players who are all internationals. Also theres Nagle and Foley and then you have Brian Hayes and Dave O'Callaghan who can play lock. Cathal O'Flaherty has just been signed to tha academy too. Hes a backrow mostly but at 6'6" could easily, and possibly will, end up in the second row. So even if DOM is good, Munster are full of second rows.

GerM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Isn't he the Munster subacademy guy who couldn't get an offer from the main academy?

Quite possibly but I don't think a lock (or hooker) not getting a contract in Munster is a huge indictment on him. It's like a back three player leaving Leinster because they have such a queue in front of them. There are now Leinster produced back three players in Connacht, Munster and Leicester. I can see a similar situation developing with Munster locks. I'm surprised the likes of Foley signed a new contract given the quality and depth down there.

profitius

GerM wrote: »

Quite possibly but I don't think a lock (or hooker) not getting a contract in Munster is a huge indictment on him. It's like a back three player leaving Leinster because they have such a queue in front of them. There are now Leinster produced back three players in Connacht, Munster and Leicester. I can see a similar situation developing with Munster locks. I'm surprised the likes of Foley signed a new contract given the quality and depth down there.

I don't think Foley will make it. Hes just too lightweight. Nagle is on the light side too but Nagle is a good athlete. Foley was rated higher than Nagle though so there could be something I'm missing.

CIARAN_BOYLE

I just noticed that Jared Payne is in the Northland squad for the ITM cup so I doubt that he will link up will ulster till that is over.

jacothelad

There is a rumour that there are no rumours about Ulster Rugby.................other than the fact that Pienaar said in a recent interview that he would be with Ulster for another two seasons. If true, great. If not.......ballix.

We have also lost Muller to the SA RWC squad for the early season RabidDog games now that SA have lost Bekker.

Afoa also has broken a cheekbone.

irishbucsfan

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/14460261.stm

Academy player Ricky Andrew plays for Ulster tomorrow night after returning from a season with the Castres Academy. Hopefully he's yet another Ulster prospect in the backs to compete with Gilroy.

Ulster: A D'Arcy; C Gaston, D Cave, I Whitten, R Andrew; J McKinney, P Marshall; T Court, A Kyriacou, D Fitzpatrick; T Barker, N McComb; P Wannenburg, C Henry, R Diack.

Replacements: C Black, P McAllister, A Macklin, J Cronin, J Burns, L Stevenson, M McComish, W Faloon, I Porter, P Jackson, C Gilroy.

thomond2006

Wonder if Andrew is any good, Ulster seem to be producing quality wingers for fun these days.

sickening amount of youth in that side and bench.

So good to see, and most of them have had good exposure already in the ML and some in the HEC!

Consider that L.Marshall and Spence could both be another centre partnership, that Jackson, Gilroy and McAllister on the bench have all played significant roles in the previous season and you can see how the conversion rate at Ulster Rugby is just phenomenal from the underage teams.