Ulster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

mfceiling

Not a huge concern. 1st match away from home with a lot of big names not playing. Expectations need to be reined in a bit. Too good of a start last year maybe - comparisons shouldn't be drawn.

Hagz

Ulster have revamped their website and you can actually see what their current academy is.
Hookers: John Andrew, Jonny Murphy
Props: Jake Caulfield, Kyle McCall, Andrew Warwick
Locks: John Donnan, Alan O'Connor, James Simpson
Back-Row: Conor Joyce
Scrum-Half: David Shanahan
Out-Half:
Centre: Stuart McCluskey
Back 3: Rory Scholes

bilston

Hagz wrote: »

Ulster have revamped their website and you can actually see what their current academy is.
Hookers: John Andrew, Jonny Murphy
Props: Jake Caulfield, Kyle McCall, Andrew Warwick
Locks: John Donnan, Alan O'Connor, James Simpson
Back-Row: Conor Joyce
Scrum-Half: David Shanahan
Out-Half:
Centre: Stuart McCluskey
Back 3: Rory Scholes

Surprised Chris Taylor isn't there.

Out of that lot Kyle McCall, John Donnan, Conor Joyce and Rory Scholes may be the ones who can make the breakthrough at senior level although I haven't seen one or two of the others play.

irishbucsfan

I like Alan O'Connor as a dark horse.

ulster_Beef

awec wrote: »

Hopefully this serves as a wake up call. Very poor result - but not worth panicking over yet.

While I don't want to panic, I kind of am. I always said this season worried/ worries me.

We just about beat leinster at ravenhill with a stronger team. We got stuffed in Leicester with a strong team and didn't turn up on Friday either. That may have been 3 losses in a row (I know friendlies don't count much but wed still good teams out).

As for people saying give Jackson time etc etc. How long are we going to keep saying that?

I guess well just have to wait and see how the above are answered over the season

RuPi

bilston wrote: »

Surprised Chris Taylor isn't there.

Out of that lot Kyle McCall, John Donnan, Conor Joyce and Rory Scholes may be the ones who can make the breakthrough at senior level although I haven't seen one or two of the others play.

I would say a few more may be added after the Inter Pro's.

bilston

ulster_Beef wrote: »

While I don't want to panic, I kind of am. I always said this season worried/ worries me.

We just about beat leinster at ravenhill with a stronger team. We got stuffed in Leicester with a strong team and didn't turn up on Friday either. That may have been 3 losses in a row (I know friendlies don't count much but wed still good teams out).

As for people saying give Jackson time etc etc. How long are we going to keep saying that?

I guess well just have to wait and see how the above are answered over the season

Firstly I'm concerned too. I don't have a good vibe about this season, there is no logic to that as Ive no connections to the squad but for some reason I think it could be a hard season ahead. Lack of major signings doesn't help, it can lead to staleness, even though we were reasonably well set a new face or two with fresh voices might have done some good. Still it's early days.

As for Jackson I suppose in his defence he is just 21, we forget that, but he is unbelievably young to be given such responsibilities. He was almost two year young than what ROG was when he was first capped by Ireland and four years younger than Sexton so we do need to give him a lot more time to be honest. However that doesn't help Ulster in the short who need him to step up now. To be fair people focus on the bad games but he has had good games as well, we'll see how he goes over the next few weeks or so. I still believe that by the time he is 24 he will be a serious operator.

ulster_Beef

ulster_Beef wrote: »

While I don't want to panic, I kind of am. I always said this season worried/ worries me.

We just about beat leinster at ravenhill with a stronger team. We got stuffed in Leicester with a strong team and didn't turn up on Friday either. That may have been 3 losses in a row (I know friendlies don't count much but wed still good teams out).

As for people saying give Jackson time etc etc. How long are we going to keep saying that?

I guess well just have to wait and see how the above are answered over the season

Probably 3 to 4 years tbh.

What other options could you possibly even entertain?

(The above two questions may imply that I think Jackson won't get there, but I certainly do. I think he's the real deal, but he's only a kid in a pivotal position yet)

Buer

Deleted User wrote: »

at other options could you possibly even entertain?

Olding.

I'm a fan of Jackson and there's no doubt he has the natural talent to pick up 50 caps but it's impossible to predict how someone handles the mental side of the game. Thus far, he has struggled with his execution consistently. When he has played really well, it has generally coincided with RP taking a huge amount of the responsibility for directing the game.

Olding has stepped up more comfortably and been allowed develop with less pressure, away from the outhalf spot. Now that he's comfortable playing this level of rugby, I can see him starting at 10 a few times this season.

bilston

Buer wrote: »

Olding.

I'm a fan of Jackson and there's no doubt he has the natural talent to pick up 50 caps but it's impossible to predict how someone handles the mental side of the game. Thus far, he has struggled with his execution consistently. When he has played really well, it has generally coincided with RP taking a huge amount of the responsibility for directing the game.

Olding has stepped up more comfortably and been allowed develop with less pressure, away from the outhalf spot. Now that he's comfortable playing this level of rugby, I can see him starting at 10 a few times this season.

The thing is Olding is even younger than Jackson and less experienced, although he does look a lot more at home, but then he doesn't have the responsibility of being the main playmaker. But I agree I think Olding will get a few games here and there at 10 this season.

Ideally Ulster need someone like Dan Parks or even Jimmy Gopperth, someone with experience, not necessarily to take Jackson's place but to ease the burden. At the moment our back up out half options are either very unproven (McKinney) or even younger (Olding) or better elsewhere (Pienaar).

irishbucsfan

I actually thought one of Jackson's best performances was against Munster
last year. That was outside Marshall and then Heaney, and he controlled the game and outplayed that old lad who used to play for Munster.

People often say he only plays well when Pienaar controls the game, and that is true for the most part, but he has shown an ability to do it all. He's just a very young player in a key position with a history of inconsistency. In an ideal world he'd be an understudy for a while.

awec

I'm nervous that we'll end up empty handed again this season - we're going to lose the majority of our NIQs at the end of this season are we not?

Buer

awec wrote: »

I'm nervous that we'll end up empty handed again this season - we're going to lose the majority of our NIQs at the end of this season are we not?

Remains to be seen how generous the IRFU are feeling. All NIQ are out of contract aside from Payne.

Pienaar - has had previous extensions, turns 30 this season but may be kept on the basis that there's no obvious international candidate he's blocking and his presence is of benefit to highly talented but callow Ulster back line.

Muller - not a hope. He's had an extension already, is 34 in January and Iain Henderson is in need of more game time. Stevenson is a quality option also so his case is not strong.

Williams - has only had the one contract at Ulster. Been a huge success in his first season. Munster and Leinster are well covered at 8. His re-signing will depend on how Roger Wilson's season goes but I can see him being allowed to stay if he's interested.

Afoa - no point in discussing. If Ulster are out of contention before the end of the season, he might even be released early.

I'd say Williams and Pienaar will stay, if I had to put money on it. Pienaar's case will be bolstered by his role in the back line and the IRFU won't want to significantly weaken Ulster by seeing them lose 3 or 4 NIQ players in one swoop. On the other hand, Munster wanted to sign a scrum half and couldn't which could make things awkward. I'd say 60/40 in favour of him staying.

shuffol

Jacksons best spell last season came in the first few months when Pienaar was away, he consistently delivered very classy performances.

the perfect ten

The main thing that would worry me about Jackson is that his kicking game, both out of hand and off the tee, is not developing in the way that it should for a player who has now had quite some amount of experience at the highest levels of club rugby.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Any word on Ferris>?

Glass Prison 1214

awec wrote: »

I'm nervous that we'll end up empty handed again this season - we're going to lose the majority of our NIQs at the end of this season are we not?

Buer wrote: »

Remains to be seen how generous the IRFU are feeling. All NIQ are out of contract aside from Payne.

Pienaar - has had previous extensions, turns 30 this season but may be kept on the basis that there's no obvious international candidate he's blocking and his presence is of benefit to highly talented but callow Ulster back line.

Muller - not a hope. He's had an extension already, is 34 in January and Iain Henderson is in need of more game time. Stevenson is a quality option also so his case is not strong.

Williams - has only had the one contract at Ulster. Been a huge success in his first season. Munster and Leinster are well covered at 8. His re-signing will depend on how Roger Wilson's season goes but I can see him being allowed to stay if he's interested.

Afoa - no point in discussing. If Ulster are out of contention before the end of the season, he might even be released early.

I'd say Williams and Pienaar will stay, if I had to put money on it. Pienaar's case will be bolstered by his role in the back line and the IRFU won't want to significantly weaken Ulster by seeing them lose 3 or 4 NIQ players in one swoop. On the other hand, Munster wanted to sign a scrum half and couldn't which could make things awkward. I'd say 60/40 in favour of him staying.

Remember that Payne becomes IQ after this season, and like you say with the almost guarenteed departures of Muller and Afoa that will leave you with 3 free NIQ spots. Which means Ulster will certainly be making some signings at the end of the season, so not all doom and gloom.

CatFromHue

I could see Pienaar not getting another contract offer.

He's pretty much playing all year at the moment due to being in Springbok squads and eventually injuries will take their toll on him.

bilston

Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »

Remember that Payne becomes IQ after this season, and like you say with the almost guarenteed departures of Muller and Afoa that will leave you with 3 free NIQ spots. Which means Ulster will certainly be making some signings at the end of the season, so not all doom and gloom.

Its an awkward stage in the world cycle to bring in big name SH players though, plus the money wont be there anyway like it was in the past but still I'd expect a couple of decent signings, I'd say Humphreys is sourcing his targets already.

Utah_Saint

anyone for the match tomorrow?

I'm a little worried about the potential result...i don't doubt the quality of the team but it may take them a few games to get into their stride.

Looking for a better partnership at Centre - Marshall - Cave should be more stable to see us through.

bilston

Utah_Saint wrote: »

anyone for the match tomorrow?

I'm a little worried about the potential result...i don't doubt the quality of the team but it may take them a few games to get into their stride.

Looking for a better partnership at Centre - Marshall - Cave should be more stable to see us through.

I think having Marshall at 12 rather than Farrell will help Jackson as well. I'd also like to see Allen on the wing and Hendo brought straight back into the side although I suppose it's more likely he will bench since it's his first game back. Williams or Wilson at 8 is a bit of a dilemma!

Nervous as well, Glasgow are a good side as Leinster fans will testify from the semi final last year and are capable of beating us at Ravenhill, lose tomorrow and suddenly we're in a bit of a spiral that can be hard to get out of, win and our confidence will soar. It might only be round 2 of the Pro 12 but it really is a massive game for us.

dtpc191991

Buer wrote: »

Remains to be seen how generous the IRFU are feeling. All NIQ are out of contract aside from Payne.

Pienaar - has had previous extensions, turns 30 this season but may be kept on the basis that there's no obvious international candidate he's blocking and his presence is of benefit to highly talented but callow Ulster back line.

Muller - not a hope. He's had an extension already, is 34 in January and Iain Henderson is in need of more game time. Stevenson is a quality option also so his case is not strong.

Williams - has only had the one contract at Ulster. Been a huge success in his first season. Munster and Leinster are well covered at 8. His re-signing will depend on how Roger Wilson's season goes but I can see him being allowed to stay if he's interested.

Afoa - no point in discussing. If Ulster are out of contention before the end of the season, he might even be released early.

I'd say Williams and Pienaar will stay, if I had to put money on it. Pienaar's case will be bolstered by his role in the back line and the IRFU won't want to significantly weaken Ulster by seeing them lose 3 or 4 NIQ players in one swoop. On the other hand, Munster wanted to sign a scrum half and couldn't which could make things awkward. I'd say 60/40 in favour of him staying.

This will all depend massively on wether or not an ERC exists next season. Without it will become very difficult to keep or attract any new NIQs to Ireland.

the_doctor199

Team for tomorrow night, Trimble out for a month with a finger injury.

(15-9): J Payne, D McIlwaine, D Cave, L Marshall, M Allen, P Jackson, I Porter;
(1-8): C Black, R Herring, D Fitzpatrick, J Muller (Captain), D Tuohy, R Wilson, S Doyle, N Williams;
(16-23): N Annett, T Court, R Lutton, I Henderson, C Henry, P Marshall, J McKinney, R Andrew.


awec

I'm nervous about this. We're missing a lot of important players still.

jamiedav2011

Jaysus I'd be a little worried for that Ulster team, considering the strength of Glasgow.

Good to see Mcilwaine back though, cracking player at this level.

Wilson at 6 is a bit strange isn't it?

bilston

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Good to see Mcilwaine back though, cracking player at this level.

Methinks you've got McIlwaine confused with someone else!

bilston

the_doctor199 wrote: »

Team for tomorrow night, Trimble out for a month with a finger injury.

(15-9): J Payne, D McIlwaine, D Cave, L Marshall, M Allen, P Jackson, I Porter;
(1-8): C Black, R Herring, D Fitzpatrick, J Muller (Captain), D Tuohy, R Wilson, S Doyle, N Williams;
(16-23): N Annett, T Court, R Lutton, I Henderson, C Henry, P Marshall, J McKinney, R Andrew.


Two or three selections I don't like.

Fitzpatrick over Lutton? Where has Trimble gone? Would have hoped Henderson would have started as well.

I could see us losing this one. I see Stuart Hogg is starting for Glasgow. I really wish the IRFU weren't so fecking strict with releasing players!

former legend

bilston wrote: »

Two or three selections I don't like.

Fitzpatrick over Lutton? Where has Trimble gone? Would have hoped Henderson would have started as well.

I could see us losing this one. I see Stuart Hogg is starting for Glasgow. I really wish the IRFU weren't so fecking strict with releasing players!

Who are Ulster missing, apart from Best? Gilroy is injured, isn't he? Trimble is out for a month according to the earlier post.

launish116

trimble hasa finger injury and going under the blade tomorrow morning, out 4-6 weeks.

Lutton played well last week, bout wouldn't glasgows scrum be stronger?

as for Henderson looks like he's needed to cover backrow/2nd row and if he hasn't played since america best to break him in slow.

hoping wilson's will step up another notch and good to see doyle given a shout starting.

Bogota

I'm really hoping Ferris will be back soon, there is such a void in the backrow without him. The likes of McLaughlin and POM just aren't international class 6s unfortunately.

.ak

Bogota wrote: »

I'm really hoping Ferris will be back soon, there is such a void in the backrow without him. The likes of McLaughlin and POM just aren't international class 6s unfortunately.

They're certainly solid at international level. POM has the capacity of being of being an extremely good international blindside, he's an extremely classy player.

Ferris is a league above them, but Ferris is a league above most other 6s in the world when fit. So not really a fair comparison.

jamiedav2011

Bogota wrote: »

I'm really hoping Ferris will be back soon, there is such a void in the backrow without him. The likes of McLaughlin and POM just aren't international class 6s unfortunately.

Jesus give it a rest fella will you?

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Ferris hasn't played for Ireland in something like two years. Time to move on, if he comes back then that'll be great

We have some really good options in the backrow anyway (not saying we don't miss Ferris either though)

Bogota

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Jesus give it a rest fella will you?

Not trying to be overly negative, I just dont think the likes of McLaughlin and POM are international class. Well behind the 6s playing for France, England, South Africa, New Zealand, Australia, Wales anyway.

.ak

Bogota wrote: »

Not trying to be overly negative, I just dont think the likes of McLaughlin and POM are international class. Well behind the 6s playing for France, England, South Africa, New Zealand, Australia, Wales anyway.

Personally I'd have POM over England, Australia and Wales blindsides. Probably would consider Locky over one or two of them too.

Bogota

.ak wrote: »

They're certainly solid at international level. POM has the capacity of being of being an extremely good international blindside, he's an extremely classy player.

Ferris is a league above them, but Ferris is a league above most other 6s in the world when fit. So not really a fair comparison.

I suppose it depends how you define 'extremely good'. For me an extremely good international blindside is one who can hold his own with the blindsides playing for the top 6 countries. That is not true for either POM or McLaughlin.

Solid is someone who can do a job there which is what POM and McLaughlin do, but they're the weakest 6s of any of the top countries.

.ak

Bogota wrote: »

I suppose it depends how you define 'extremely good'. For me an extremely good international blindside is one who can hold his own with the blindsides playing for the top 6 countries. That is not true for either POM or McLaughlin.

Solid is someone who can do a job there which is what POM and McLaughlin do, but they're the weakest 6s of any of the top countries.

You've gone from 'international class' to 'top 6 countries'. That's hardly fair. If we're talking top 6 countries then we're talking about the top 6 blindsides in the world. What makes you think we should naturally have a blindside who's one of the top 6 in the world?

If we could be so choosy then we'd have a team to rival the all blacks! :P

Bogota

.ak wrote: »

Personally I'd have POM over England, Australia and Wales blindsides. Probably would consider Locky over one or two of them too.

POM over the likes of Lydiate and Croft ?? :eek:

jamiedav2011

Bogota wrote: »

Not trying to be overly negative, I just dont think the likes of McLaughlin and POM are international class. Well behind the 6s playing for France, England, South Africa, New Zealand, Australia, Wales anyway.

Locky perhaps, but your hatred of POM is ridiculous.
POM is 'well behind' Fardy, Messam/Luatua, Alberts, Lydiate, Robshaw/Wood? Nah mate.

.ak

Bogota wrote: »

POM over the likes of Lydiate and Croft ?? :eek:

Defo over the non-versatile Lydiate. Croft? If you asked me 6 months ago defo not. Ask me now? Sure. Anything is possible. Croft had a stinker in the Lions tour and POM has just had an immense season. Croft is out again for another year where as POM has remained injury free. These kind of things add up.

Bogota

.ak wrote: »

You've gone from 'international class' to 'top 6 countries'. That's hardly fair. If we're talking top 6 countries then we're talking about the top 6 blindsides in the world. What makes you think we should naturally have a blindside who's one of the top 6 in the world?

If we could be so choosy then we'd have a team to rival the all blacks! :P

No I am calling for parity with some of the top 6 backrows. I don't think its over the top to say that Ireland's players should be as good as their Welsh or English counterparts to be considered international class. If not then what nation will we judge our players on? Whether they're as good as Samoan or Scottish players?

.ak

Bogota wrote: »

No I am calling for parity with some of the top 6 backrows. I don't think its over the top to say that Ireland's players should be as good as their Welsh or English counterparts to be considered international class. If not then what nation will we judge our players on? Whether they're as good as Samoan or Scottish players?

The Welsh and English are traditionally better teams, so why not?

Another discussion for another thread, but I think it's how we play as a team that'll set us apart, not the stock we breed.

Bogota

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Locky perhaps, but your hatred of POM is ridiculous.
POM is 'well behind' Fardy, Messam/Luatua, Alberts, Lydiate, Robshaw/Wood? Nah mate.

We're going to have to disagree there, I'd have Robshaw, Croft, Lydiate well ahead of POM personally.

Lions selectors agree with me as did every single pundit. There wasn't even a mention of POM missing out on a Lions tour because he wasn't up to the standard of the 6s brought. There was a massive uproar over Robshaw missing out who had an utterly immense season.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

What has Bogota's obviously skewed opinion on POM have to do with Ulster?

.ak

Bogota wrote: »

We're going to have to disagree there, I'd have Robshaw, Croft, Lydiate well ahead of POM personally.

Lions selectors agree with me as did every single pundit. There wasn't even a mention of POM missing out on a Lions tour because he wasn't up to the standard of the 6s brought. There was a massive uproar over Robshaw missing out who had an utterly immense season.

There was. Plenty of reports, including Sky and PR, said POM was one of the 'unlucky' to miss out on initial selection, including Best etc., etc

bilston

former legend wrote: »

Who are Ulster missing, apart from Best? Gilroy is injured, isn't he? Trimble is out for a month according to the earlier post.

I was talking generally not just specifically about Ulster. Best is the only fit Lion we have at the moment as Bowe is injured. But I'm thinking more about the likes of the Leinster and Munster lads.

Bogota

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

What has Bogota's obviously skewed opinion on POM have to do with Ulster?

You see this is what I absolutely hate about your posts sometimes. You twist my arguments into some kind of vendetta against Munster players.

The reason it was relevant was because I merely stated that I hope Ferris comes back soon because theres such a void and I dont think McLaughlin (oh my god a Leinster player :rolleyes:) and POM are exceptional at international level.

Obviously because you have perceived it as a 'pop' at a player from your team you've decided to have a go at me.

bilston

launish116 wrote: »

Lutton played well last week, bout wouldn't glasgows scrum be stronger?

Fitzpatrick struggled when he came on last week so why start him over Lutton if Glasgow's scrum is stronger.

jamiedav2011

Bogota wrote: »

We're going to have to disagree there, I'd have Robshaw, Croft, Lydiate well ahead of POM personally.

Lions selectors agree with me as did every single pundit. There wasn't even a mention of POM missing out.

Well there was, but maybe you chose to block all that out.

Add in the fact that POM is only 23, has captained both Munster and Ireland and isn't even near the peak of his game, and you've the making of a top class 6.

But I suspect you're aware of that, and just threw in a snide off hand remark.

By the way, Croft is out for the season, was poor for the Lions and has barely played for England since 2012, and you're exact remark was he was well behind all of the opensides playing for the top 6.

Bogota

.ak wrote: »

The Welsh and English are traditionally better teams, so why not?

Another discussion for another thread, but I think it's how we play as a team that'll set us apart, not the stock we breed.

I suppose its how you define international class. I personally define it as parity with the top teams. He should at least be on par with his opposite in Wales and England for example.