Ulster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

bilston

Buer wrote: »

Certainly didn't have a great opening half to the season but they've consolidated and benefitted from a clean bill of health for a little while now with the team getting a good run together. They've only lost once since the Toulon demolition away to the Dragons when they fielded and experimental side.

They've a very solid and settled starting side now with No. 8 being the only position I think is a real concern (Wilson was awful for Te'o's try at the weekend) and are well placed win the league. All they need is a top 2 finish given the final is in Belfast.

They're well poised for next season with Kiss coming on board and Doak under less pressure. They do need to address their depth up front though which has been their biggest issue for years now. It cost them badly this season and will do so again if they can't develop some cover. When you look at the side that hosted Toulon and went to Welford Road in October, they were never going to win.

Next year will be hard for all the provinces and World Cup years are hard to predict. The first 6-8 games will be played without the internationals and then those same players will be held back again in during the 6Ns. Depth will be tested for all sides.

There is talk of another big signing in the works, reading between the lines on UAFC it may possibly be a South African back row. You said it, we need an 8. No idea who it is (if it's happening) assuming it isn't Vermuelen (if only!) what other No.8s would make a difference?

2016/17 could be a big season for us, obviously Best, Trimble, Bowe and Henry will be kicking on by that stage but that is when I think we could be serious contenders in Europe again.

stl.ire

The last few games have been encouraging for Doak (and his staff - the defence against Leinster was a sea change to some of the stuff we've seen). Obviously the upcoming run in will be a big test and will reveal a lot. The fact is, Ulster probably have the most complete squad in Ireland and really should show that when they have most of their big players available, so while Doak deserves credit I'm still a little skeptical.

bilston wrote: »

There is talk of another big signing in the works, reading between the lines on UAFC it may possibly be a South African back row. You said it, we need an 8. No idea who it is (if it's happening) assuming it isn't Vermuelen (if only!) what other No.8s would make a difference?.

Vermuelan is strangely still available even though Toulon are supposed interested. I'd imagine he'll end up there on a crazy contract or back in SA. It would be awesome though.
For Ulster more realistically from the other big Bok names are Kankowski and Alberts. Both were expected to leave and both are from the Sharks (like Muller, Pienaar, Herbst, Terblanche and even Ludik and Van der Merwe for a bit). Willem Alberts would be a huge addition. I saw something about Wasps trying to get him signed so he's definitely looking. Fingers crossed!
Of course Pierre Spies might be available and fits our injury history!!

jacothelad

stl.ire wrote: »

The last few games have been encouraging for Doak (and his staff - the defence against Leinster was a sea change to some of the stuff we've seen). Obviously the upcoming run in will be a big test and will reveal a lot. The fact is, Ulster probably have the most complete squad in Ireland and really should show that when they have most of their big players available, so while Doak deserves credit I'm still a little skeptical.




Vermuelan is strangely still available even though Toulon are supposed interested. I'd imagine he'll end up there on a crazy contract or back in SA. It would be awesome though.
For Ulster more realistically from the other big Bok names are Kankowski and Alberts. Both were expected to leave and both are from the Sharks (like Muller, Pienaar, Herbst, Terblanche and even Ludik and Van der Merwe for a bit). Willem Alberts would be a huge addition. I saw something about Wasps trying to get him signed so he's definitely looking. Fingers crossed!
Of course Pierre Spies might be available and fits our injury history!!

I'd love to agree with you on that but we simply don't have the quality in all areas of our 'reserves' that would support your argument. Back row in particular. When we have to play guys like McComish etc we show our weakness in that area.

I suppose when we have under rated players like Herring, Black, Warwick, Diack and tyros like O'Connor in the forwards we are doing o.k. I think Warwick and O'Connor could become significantly important players in the near future and Herring is fast approaching Best's level but Black and Diack are probably at their ceiling - really high as it is in the case of Black. Our greatest worry is the fact that our academy is surprisingly fruitless in bringing forward high quality operators for the pack. We have also let some possibles slip through the net. Chris Taylor for example. Also, I heard a rumour that O'Hagan is going back to England. Something which I hope is wrong.

Our biggest weakness is at 9 and 10. Beagle is great now and again but we've all had our heads in our hands at times when he blows really cold....being polite. Losing O'Hagan seems to be really careless. iHumph is a really good back up 10 most of the time and can be really sublime one minute and shocking in the same move.

We need consistently good 9s and 10s and we don't have them in the reserves.

I would agree that in the outside backs we are as well served as most European clubs. Ludik, Payne, L. Marshall, Olding, McCloskey, Cave, Gilroy, Trimble, Bowe, Scholes etc are pretty high quality and behind them we have guys like Sam Arnold, jack Owens, Jacob Stockdale and Conor Young who look the biz. What we need is Lorcal Dow and Frankie Taggart to come through and we are getting somewhere in the back row.

Buer

Nah, Ulster don't have the most complete squad in Ireland. I think that's a really optimistic statement. They've a really good first team that's capable of beating anyone when all fit and on form but beyond that, gaps really begin to show. Season after season, depth has been their Achilles heel. Few injuries has seen their season

When Paul Marshall, Andrew Warwick, Clive Ross and Bronson Ross are on the bench, I don't think it's a feasible argument. Some of them have performed well beyond expectations but that doesn't make them test standard players.

If I had to be critical, I would think Ulster need quality depth at 3, 7, 8, 9 and 10 for their first 25 or 26 players. Injuries in any of those positions currently leads to a serious drop off in quality. Diack is a really good player but I see him as a very handy blindside as opposed to an 8 although he can cover across back row and lock if necessary.

bilston

1 Black Warwick
2 Best Herring McCall Andrew
3 Herbst Ross
4 Tuohy O'Connor Stevenson
5 Van Der Merwe Henderson
6 Henderson Browne Diack
7 Henry Faloon
8 Wilson Williams*
9 Pienaar Marshall Rowley Heaney
10 Jackson Humprheys Windsor Heaney
11 Bowe Gilroy
12 Cave McCloskey Arnold Olding
13 Payne Marshall
14 Trimble Scholes
15 Ludik Payne, Gilroy

That's pretty much next season's squad. No doubt I've left a couple out and maybe some of those fringe guys will move on. Hopefully the likes of Dow and Taggart come through and we clearly need more cover at TH and in the back row in general.

The drop off from Pienaar and Jackson at half back is scary! And we know they will be missing until November.

George Hook

We couldn't get Kieran Read could we? He's likely to become the next AB cpt. so will be kept in NZ right?

Warren Whiteley is a great no 8, though maybe not the type of player we need. Pierre Spies, I don't know what his plans are but he's maybe too similar in play to Whiteley. Alberts is the type of guy we should be after, or Vermeulen. Ben McCalman from Aus is handy no8 too.

*crosses fingers for McCaw*

thomond2006

Maybe Rory McIlroy will leave another blank cheque book behind the bins at Ravenspan and you can buy Vermeulen and Read. Plus they'll need cover so you'll also buy Louis Picamoles.

jacothelad

Buer wrote: »

Nah, Ulster don't have the most complete squad in Ireland. I think that's a really optimistic statement. They've a really good first team that's capable of beating anyone when all fit and on form but beyond that, gaps really begin to show. Season after season, depth has been their Achilles heel. Few injuries has seen their season

When Paul Marshall, Andrew Warwick, Clive Ross and Bronson Ross are on the bench, I don't think it's a feasible argument. Some of them have performed well beyond expectations but that doesn't make them test standard players.

If I had to be critical, I would think Ulster need quality depth at 3, 7, 8, 9 and 10 for their first 25 or 26 players. Injuries in any of those positions currently leads to a serious drop off in quality. Diack is a really good player but I see him as a very handy blindside as opposed to an 8 although he can cover across back row and lock if necessary.

Warwick is a seriously very good player in the making and Bronson Ross has exceeded any expectation of him considering he missed all of last season with a serious neck injury. He started the game against Toulon and did o.k. Still, I wouldn't like to have to rely on him now that Deccie has flown the coup. Dave Ryan and Ruaridh Murphy seem to have sunk without trace.

Buer

Warwick is a very decent player. Not ECC winning standard but I rate him. I suppose I judge him on the basis that if it's the week of a ECC semi final against Clermont or Toulon and your first choice player breaks his leg, would you see Warwick as a potential weakness? Maybe I'm being overly harsh (or not informed enough) but I would.

Ryan and Murphy...couldn't fathom those signings at the time and still can't. Both have proven track records of not making the grade. Ulster were sold a pup in particular with Murphy.

Sinbad_NI

thomond2006 wrote: »

Maybe Rory McIlroy will leave another blank cheque book behind the bins at Ravenspan and you can buy Vermeulen and Read. Plus they'll need cover so you'll also buy Louis Picamoles.

That's be the change in his back pocket rather than needing a cheque for McIlroy at this stage.
Still if it works for Leinster with Sexton then why not, c'mon Rory, splash the cash.

stl.ire

Buer wrote: »

Nah, Ulster don't have the most complete squad in Ireland. I think that's a really optimistic statement. They've a really good first team that's capable of beating anyone when all fit and on form but beyond that, gaps really begin to show. Season after season, depth has been their Achilles heel. Few injuries has seen their season

When Paul Marshall, Andrew Warwick, Clive Ross and Bronson Ross are on the bench, I don't think it's a feasible argument. Some of them have performed well beyond expectations but that doesn't make them test standard players.

If I had to be critical, I would think Ulster need quality depth at 3, 7, 8, 9 and 10 for their first 25 or 26 players. Injuries in any of those positions currently leads to a serious drop off in quality. Diack is a really good player but I see him as a very handy blindside as opposed to an 8 although he can cover across back row and lock if necessary.

I think that's overestimating the depth and underestimating the weaknesses of the other Irish provinces.

Of course Ulster are not perfect, they obviously need significant upgrades if they were to ever seriously challenge in Europe as you point out. But I don't think it's a stretch to say Ulster's squad compares well to Munster and Leinster. Our pack is perhaps the weakest but not significantly so and our backs and half backs (when all available) are better. Again depth is an issue, particularly at back row and half back as you list, but Leinster and Munster have equally weak depth at certain positions that shouldn't be glossed over.

All I'm saying is that yes, Doak has done a good job the last few weeks and that's very encouraging, but with the first team pretty much all available he perhaps should be. This is not comparing Ulster to Clermont or Toulon but the other Irish teams. We beat Connacht away and Leinster at home but we should have. We should expect to beat Munster at home next. With our squad a decent coach would be expected to win these games. Doak has done well but in truth he should have. Or am I being too cautious and Doak deserves massive credit?

RobbieRuns

It easier to be the best coach....... When you have the best players !

Doak has his players back at the right time. Other than Stu Olding, that team v Leinster was Ulsters best team. The return from injury of PJ, Henry, Touhy, McCloskey, Henderson, Herbst etc. The Irish players coming back in as well. if no more injuries come along it should be a good end to the season. Ulster should expect to beat anyone at home.

bilston

RobbieRuns wrote: »

It easier to be the best coach....... When you have the best players !
.

It works both ways Robbie. It's also harder without them!

I'm still looking forward to Kiss taking charge.

stl.ire

George Hook wrote: »

We couldn't get Kieran Read could we? He's likely to become the next AB cpt. so will be kept in NZ right?

Warren Whiteley is a great no 8, though maybe not the type of player we need. Pierre Spies, I don't know what his plans are but he's maybe too similar in play to Whiteley. Alberts is the type of guy we should be after, or Vermeulen. Ben McCalman from Aus is handy no8 too.

*crosses fingers for McCaw*

Reed's signed up to 2017 but has a sabbatical option so unless Ulster want to pay big bucks for a couple months he's not as great an option as you'd think. McCalman is doing the same although his time abroad will probably be in Japan like most Aus sabbaticals. You have to remember too that both these guys plus Vermuelan will probably get significant work at the World Cup so will need time off too which isn't ideal.

The perfect SH signing would be under 30 and just missing out on a WC place. For instance Edinburgh got a great 8 in Nasi Manu from the Highlanders. Munster getting Saili is a good example too.
Dream scenario I think would be a guy like Alberts or Victor Vito. They'd be McIlroy money though.

George Hook

stl.ire wrote: »

Reed's signed up to 2017 but has a sabbatical option so unless Ulster want to pay big bucks for a couple months he's not as great an option as you'd think. McCalman is doing the same although his time abroad will probably be in Japan like most Aus sabbaticals. You have to remember too that both these guys plus Vermuelan will probably get significant work at the World Cup so will need time off too which isn't ideal.

The perfect SH signing would be under 30 and just missing out on a WC place. For instance Edinburgh got a great 8 in Nasi Manu from the Highlanders. Munster getting Saili is a good example too.
Dream scenario I think would be a guy like Alberts or Victor Vito. They'd be McIlroy money though.

Good post, thanks for the information!

RobbieRuns

bilston wrote: »

It works both ways Robbie. It's also harder without them!

I'm still looking forward to Kiss taking charge.

For sure, totally agree and Ulster have done well to hang in there while going through an injury crisis. Glad that the top players are back. The squad looks strong now, so no reason for Doak to complain and results should come.

bradders90

Apparently Sean O'Hagan is heading back to England, according to rumors heard by @irishuarugby
Anyone know anymore about this? Would be disappointing given how highly rated he was when he came over here. Seems having Carolan had u20 coach has really knocked his pedigree.

bilston

bradders90 wrote: »

Apparently Sean O'Hagan is heading back to England, according to rumors heard by @irishuarugby
Anyone know anymore about this? Would be disappointing given how highly rated he was when he came over here. Seems having Carolan had u20 coach has really knocked his pedigree.

Is he fit? Has he been fit?

Isn't Michael Heaney starting at 10 these days for the Ravens?

RuPi

Was on the bench for Queens in their last AIL game.

RobbieRuns

bradders90 wrote: »

Apparently Sean O'Hagan is heading back to England, according to rumors heard by @irishuarugby
Anyone know anymore about this? Would be disappointing given how highly rated he was when he came over here. Seems having Carolan had u20 coach has really knocked his pedigree.

If that is true, all I think is that it is very sad. He is a great player, loved watching him play, I hope that it is not injury related.

stl.ire

Bad news.

Puitau went off for the Blues tonight with a serious looking knee injury. The commentators are saying it's probably a medial ligament. No World Cup for him by the looks of things.
Just for reference, he's had a serious knee injury before. I think to the same ligament in the same knee.

I guess he's heard the best way to get to know the Ulster boys is at the medical table!

bilston

stl.ire wrote: »

Bad news.

Puitau went off for the Blues tonight with a serious looking knee injury. The commentators are saying it's probably a medial ligament. No World Cup for him by the looks of things.
Just for reference, he's had a serious knee injury before. I think to the same ligament in the same knee.

I guess he's heard the best way to get to know the Ulster boys is at the medical table!

FFS!

Hopefully won't impact on us, but two injuries to the same knee is worrying.

stl.ire

bilston wrote: »

FFS!

Hopefully won't impact on us, but two injuries to the same knee is worrying.

It was a strain last time and he was gone for 2 months. This may be worse. Hopefully they can convince him to get some surgery done if it would help. He has a lot of time off to do it.

The cameras cut to him in the stands in the 2nd half. He looked a picture.

bilston

stl.ire wrote: »

It was a strain last time and he was gone for 2 months. This may be worse. Hopefully they can convince him to get some surgery done if it would help. He has a lot of time off to do it.

The cameras cut to him in the stands in the 2nd half. He looked a picture.

Well he has 15 months to get it right. At least it isn't a cruciate (I assume).

irishbucsfan

bilston wrote: »

Well he has 15 months to get it right. At least it isn't a cruciate (I assume).

I think he might be a little bit more focused on being fit for NZ than Ulster!

bilston

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think he might be a little bit more focused on being fit for NZ than Ulster!

True, a few warm up games at the WC for NZ wouldn't do him any harm:)

$ausage$

at least his back is ok
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CWyU37zLxw

Hagz

$ausage$ wrote: »

at least his back is ok
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CWyU37zLxw

That's Siale Piutau not Charles. Or am I missing something?

irishbucsfan

Hagz wrote: »

That's Siale Piutau not Charles. Or am I missing something?

Have you ever seen them in the same place?

So lads, I've spoken to the misses and with Leinster out of the running for silverware have decided to throw my support behind Ulster for the rest of the season.

Three main reasons being:

1. 3rd fittest bird I ever hooked up with was from Antrim.
2. Still feel bad over ye losing Ferris.
3. Not Munster

Of the remaining actual and potential fixtures to be in ravenhill, what would be the best to head upto that I'll actually get tickets for?

Utah_Saint

Deleted User wrote: »

So lads, I've spoken to the misses and with Leinster out of the running for silverware have decided to throw my support behind Ulster for the rest of the season.

Three main reasons being:

1. 3rd fittest bird I ever hooked up with was from Antrim.
2. Still feel bad over ye losing Ferris.
3. Not Munster

Of the remaining actual and potential fixtures to be in ravenhill, what would be the best to head upto that I'll actually get tickets for?

I believe the Munster game is sold out through the main ticket outlets.

but you can try here http://www.laverysbelfast.com/1a-ulster-rugby-v-munster-match-ticket-transport-package

great bar and they bus you there and back. Bus journey will only take 5-10mins from the pub.

ssaye2

Ulster team & replacements to play Munster, Guinness PRO12, Kingspan Stadium, Saturday 9th May (14:40 kick off): (15-9): L Ludik; T Bowe, J Payne, D Cave, P Nelson, P Jackson, R Pienaar; (1-8): C Black, R Best (C), W Herbst, D Tuohy, F van der Merwe, I Henderson, C Henry, R Wilson; Replacements (16-23): R Herring, A Warwick, B Ross, R Diack, C Ross, P Marshall, I Humphreys, S McCloskey.

awec

Nelson? Where is Gilroy?

total former

awec wrote: »

Nelson? Where is Gilroy?

Hamstring strain.

.ak

awec wrote: »

Nelson? Where is Gilroy?

Not scoring enough tries.

bilston

That's a ballix about Gilroy.

awec

I think we're going to be away now. Any preference for Glasgow, Wales or Limerick?

Buer

awec wrote: »

I think we're going to be away now. Any preference for Glasgow, Wales or Limerick?

You don't want to go to Limerick. They've a strong and smart pack which will mop the floor with Ulster's in Thomond.

Ospreys play a fast game too but it's more structured these days and their 1-10 are much more capable of keeping the ball away from Ulster's backs.

You'd have your best chance chance against Glasgow, I reckon. They play fast and loose, their pack are good but their set piece can be wobbly and they tend to make a couple of big errors in each game which would give Ulster good turnover ball.

errlloyd

Buer wrote: »

You don't want to go to Limerick. They've a strong and smart pack which will mop the floor with Ulster's in Thomond.

Ospreys play a fast game too but it's more structured these days and their 1-10 are much more capable of keeping the ball away from Ulster's backs.

You'd have your best chance chance against Glasgow, I reckon. They play fast and loose, their pack are good but their set piece can be wobbly and they tend to make a couple of big errors in each game which would give Ulster good turnover ball.

Interesting. So if you the other two teams had bonus points at half time, and ulster were losing by 5 you'd encourage them to throw the game?

Buer

errlloyd wrote: »

Interesting. So if you the other two teams had bonus points at half time, and ulster were losing by 5 you'd encourage them to throw the game?

I wouldn't encourage them but there might be an unspoken taking of the foot off the gas if that's the case.

I'm not sure who Doak et al would see as the preferable side, just my two cents.

total former

Glasgow have sold out Scotstoun for Saturday's game; 10,000 tickets sold is brilliant by their standards. Should be a cracking game.

ssaye2

Iain Henderson won't face any further sanction following his red card against Munster. More to follow.


@PRO12rugby disciplinary committee rule that Iain Henderson did not warrant a red card v Munster. Free to play on Saturday.

Swiwi.

ssaye2 wrote: »

Iain Henderson won't face any further sanction following his red card against Munster. More to follow.


@PRO12rugby disciplinary committee rule that Iain Henderson did not warrant a red card v Munster. Free to play on Saturday.

A man of my word: Jaco you receive my full apologies. I stand humbly corrected.

sydthebeat

as a neutral im delighted by that decision

bilston

Huzzah!

awec

Brewster

Just logged on to see if there was any update. Great news. He did not lead with his head, unlike some of the other incidents that have been highlighted on forum. Why people were so keen to see him cop a ban I'll never know?? I'm sure he is an angry man after all this, watch out Glasgow!!

Buer

Wow. I'm shocked and delighted but mostly furious my theory has been damaged.

total former

Brewster wrote: »

Just logged on to see if there was any update. Great news. He did not lead with his head, unlike some of the other incidents that have been highlighted on forum. Why people were so keen to see him cop a ban I'll never know?? I'm sure he is an angry man after all this, watch out Glasgow!!

As one of the people who was full sure he would be banned, and is very surprised he wasn't, the bolded part is a bit annoying.

No-one wanted him banned, I simply thought he would be.

Do you see the distinction?

George Hook

It worked!

Ha and people still don't believe in magic!