Ulster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

jacothelad

bilston wrote: »

Is Steenson much better than NOC? I think where he probably is better is that he is a better goalkicker but as for the rest of his game it's probably not much different to NOC. Is Steenson still warming the bench at Exeter? I watched most of the game yesterday and he wasn't playing unless he came on towards the end after I'd switched over. Actually with a better goalkicker Exeter would have won yesterday, although Lamb was pretty dung with his kicking percentages as well.

Steenson is world's better than NOC will ever be. Not only can he actually kick for goal but he also has quite an impressive record of scoring and creating tries. Can you think for a second that NOC would be employed by professional side in the AP. If Ulster were permitted to sign any other 10 this season they would have done so. A club outside Ulster or Connacht wouldn't look at him. If Olding plays any decent rugby he will be in the side ahead of Niall I have no doubt.

bilston

bilston wrote: »

Is Steenson much better than NOC? I think where he probably is better is that he is a better goalkicker but as for the rest of his game it's probably not much different to NOC. Is Steenson still warming the bench at Exeter? I watched most of the game yesterday and he wasn't playing unless he came on towards the end after I'd switched over. Actually with a better goalkicker Exeter would have won yesterday, although Lamb was pretty dung with his kicking percentages as well.

You aren't looking for a top notch 10 to come in and steer the ship when PJ is being rested / has a knock etc. You also would love an OH with experience to be able to come off the bench with 15 mins left and the game being chased by either side.

Being 2 points up against Ospreys on a wet November evening and PJ starts to run out of steam, I'd be far happier to see a "vet" like Parks or Staunton coming off the bench to see the game out than NOC.

irishbucsfan

Steenson is alright. His defense is absolutely atrocious though and Exeter had to plan around his complete unwillingness to even attempt to make tackles by shifting him out to the wing in defense when he was starting there. He runs back lines well and he kicks well but he's too much of a liability to be considered a good player as far as I'm concerned.

CIARAN_BOYLE

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Steenson is alright. His defense is absolutely atrocious though and Exeter had to plan around his complete unwillingness to even attempt to make tackles by shifting him out to the wing in defense when he was starting there. He runs back lines well and he kicks well but he's too much of a liability to be considered a good player as far as I'm concerned.

Well Ulster would be used to that kind of planning having had Ian Humphreys for many years.

jm08

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Well Ulster would be used to that kind of planning having had Ian Humphreys for many years.

And they gave up on iHumphs eventually.

When Pienaar comes back, NOC won't have to take the goal kicks and Paul Marshall can be the impact half-back sub, with Pienaar moving to outhalf.

irishbucsfan

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Well Ulster would be used to that kind of planning having had Ian Humphreys for many years.

I think they're probably happy to not have to do that sort of planning any more!

I'd like to see Ulster give Olding a shot from the bench behind Jackson.

bilston

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think they're probably happy to not have to do that sort of planning any more!

I'd like to see Ulster give Olding a shot from the bench behind Jackson.

From what I've read elsewhere about the Ulster/Leinster U20 game on Friday Olding apparently had a pretty good game. It will be interesting to see what position he ends up playing. Ulster's need is at 10 so my guess is that that is where he'll play.

bilston

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think they're probably happy to not have to do that sort of planning any more!

I'd like to see Ulster give Olding a shot from the bench behind Jackson.

The downside of that though is that we'd be starting with a 20 year old out half with a 19 year old as bench cover!

jacothelad

bilston wrote: »

The downside of that though is that we'd be starting with a 20 year old out half with a 19 year old as bench cover!

If they are good enough...... A young players are stiffled in their development as the opportunities for them to play in high level competitions is limited by the number of experienced players in front of them. In Oldings case, it is evident that he is a player of great promise while it is equally evident that NOC has nothing to offer anything above mediocre - and if he achieved that he would have improved.

bilston

jacothelad wrote: »

If they are good enough...... A young players are stiffled in their development as the opportunities for them to play in high level competitions is limited by the number of experienced players in front of them. In Oldings case, it is evident that he is a player of great promise while it is equally evident that NOC has nothing to offer anything above mediocre - and if he achieved that he would have improved.

Listen Jaco hopefully you'll know from elsewhere that i'm all for giving young players a chance and I certainly agree with the good enough old enough mantra, it would just be a risk to start an in experienced 10 with an even more inexperienced as cover. Of course we are in the fortunate position of having Pienaar, Wallace and even Luke Marshall who will likely feature in the majority of our matchday squads so while they aren't full time out halfs we do have some protection for Jackson and Olding should we go down that route...I suspect we won't see a lot of Olding this season though although he stands a pretty good shot at being the Irish U20s out half later in the season.

Here's the squad for Friday night. Diack's dead leg is still giving him problems. Henry and Tuohy are back. Still no Bowe, Best, Wilson or Wallace and obviously Pienaar is with SA.

ULSTER SQUAD FORWARDS (15)
Rob Herring, Nigel Brady, Declan Fitzpatrick, Callum Black, Tom Court, John Afoa, Lewis Stevenson, Neil McComb, Johann Muller, Dan Tuohy, Mike McComish, Stephen Ferris, Chris Henry, Sean Doyle, Nick Williams
ULSTER SQUAD BACKS (11)
Paul Marshall, Michael Heaney, Niall O’Connor, Paddy Jackson, Luke Marshall, Darren Cave, Michael Allen, Craig Gilroy, Andrew Trimble, Peter Nelson, Jared Payne

I think the team picks itself apart from O/S. Do we throw Henry straight in or do we break him in gently from the bench. I would hope that Stevenson keeps his starting berth as he's been our best performer in the first two rounds. Court, Afoa, Ferris, Marshall and Trimble (harsh on Allen) all to start.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Ulster vs Zebre has been postponed

conf101

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Ulster vs Zebre has been postponed

It was inevitable. Hard to imagine how the squad could focus on playing rugby after a tragedy like that.

Swiwi

Rugby: Unwanted Anscombe may turn to Ireland

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10835493

He is not a bad flyhalf, you can hardly judge him off playing for the Blues, but I think he went OK for the AB U21 side a couple of seasons back.

thomond2006

Swiwi wrote: »

Rugby: Unwanted Anscombe may turn to Ireland

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10835493

He is not a bad flyhalf, you can hardly judge him off playing for the Blues, but I think he went OK for the AB U21 side a couple of seasons back.

Ulster could do with another 10, Niall O'Connor is never going to be good enough.

But jesus christ none of this playing for Ireland crap.

RoundBox11

thomond2006 wrote: »

Ulster could do with another 10, Niall O'Connor is never going to be good enough.

But jesus christ none of this playing for Ireland crap.

Yeah i completely agree. If he did come here tho, he'd have to overtake Madigan, Jackson, Keatley and Hanrahan to even be in line for a bench spot so i can't see that happening. I've never seen the guy play but surely the IRFU wouldn't wan't to many non-irish players playing for Ireland.

GerM

RoundBox11 wrote: »

Yeah i completely agree. If he did come here tho, he'd have to overtake Madigan, Jackson, Keatley and Hanrahan to even be in line for a bench spot so i can't see that happening. I've never seen the guy play but surely the IRFU wouldn't wan't to many non-irish players playing for Ireland.

I'd say the IRFU would be eager to talk with him if the opportunity presents itself. He starts every week in the S15 and scored 29 points on his debut in Loftus. They'd find a spot for him and he'd back himself to get ahead of several of the above. He should stay though. At 21, he still has a lot of improving to do. People were saying Cruden would never be good enough 18 months ago.

RoundBox11

GerM wrote: »

I'd say the IRFU would be eager to talk with him if the opportunity presents itself. He starts every week in the S15 and scored 29 points on his debut in Loftus. They'd find a spot for him and he'd back himself to get ahead of several of the above. He should stay though. At 21, he still has a lot of improving to do. People were saying Cruden would never be good enough 18 months ago.

Good point. I thought that myself!

Swiwi

GerM wrote: »

I'd say the IRFU would be eager to talk with him if the opportunity presents itself. He starts every week in the S15 and scored 29 points on his debut in Loftus. They'd find a spot for him and he'd back himself to get ahead of several of the above. He should stay though. At 21, he still has a lot of improving to do. People were saying Cruden would never be good enough 18 months ago.

It's a bit off the topic, given this is an Ulster Team talk thread, but I would watch out for Beauden Barrett. After a great S15 for Chiefs & a 20 minute cameo v Ireland, Cruden looked the goods, was even being talked about as taking over from Carter, but he has had a mediocre 4N to date, and there is some thought Barrett might get a start if Carter remains out injured.

Anscombe is definitely good enough to play at provincial level, not sure about international though, definitely too raw at present.

bilston

Swiwi wrote: »

GerM wrote: »

I'd say the IRFU would be eager to talk with him if the opportunity presents itself. He starts every week in the S15 and scored 29 points on his debut in Loftus. They'd find a spot for him and he'd back himself to get ahead of several of the above. He should stay though. At 21, he still has a lot of improving to do. People were saying Cruden would never be good enough 18 months ago.

It's a bit off the topic, given this is an Ulster Team talk thread, but I would watch out for Beauden Barrett. After a great S15 for Chiefs & a 20 minute cameo v Ireland, Cruden looked the goods, was even being talked about as taking over from Carter, but he has had a mediocre 4N to date, and there is some thought Barrett might get a start if Carter remains out injured.

Anscombe is definitely good enough to play at provincial level, not sure about international though, definitely too raw at present.

Gareth Anscombe and Ulster is not a good fit for a number of reasons. If he wants to come to Ireland then maybe Connacht is an option.

jacothelad

bilston wrote: »

Gareth Anscombe and Ulster is not a good fit for a number of reasons. If he wants to come to Ireland then maybe Connacht is an option.

He fits a lot better than NOC who is to pro rugby what George Bush is to Mensa. As for Anscombe being 'average', we should all remember how 'average' Sexton was when he was 21. While preferring 'Irish' players, I have to confess that I am pretty sanguine about using guys under the three year or granny-gate rules.

backawaygo onahead

Guys, lets not get too holier than thou on the imported players becoming Irish players business.

In the same way I would prefer Ulster to have 15 home-grown players I would wish the same for Ireland. Problem is no major international team in teh world & especially not NZ play the game on those terms.

Our dear neighbours England have never had a problem using NZ players nor Saffers & lets not forget a couple of fine Nigerians and the occasional Russian.

Ulster aren't good enough to rely on Ulstermen by birth and neither are any other Irish teams, including Ireland.

Should Anscombe junior rock up at Ravenhill and be good enough then in three years not to pick him would be criminal.

Swiwi

backawaygo onahead wrote: »

Our dear neighbours England have never had a problem using NZ players nor Saffers & lets not forget a couple of fine Nigerians and the occasional Russian.

...while at the same time accusing NZ special ops of daring early dawn raids into the Pacific Islands to steal little Sione's and Manu's from their warm beds...

bilston

jacothelad wrote: »

He fits a lot better than NOC who is to pro rugby what George Bush is to Mensa. As for Anscombe being 'average', we should all remember how 'average' Sexton was when he was 21. While preferring 'Irish' players, I have to confess that I am pretty sanguine about using guys under the three year or granny-gate rules.

Anscombe would come here expecting to be first choice having just played a season for the Auckland Blues in the Super 15, it would put his dad in an immensely difficult position if Jackson was the better player. Also from reading other MBs Anscombe junior may not fit in with Humphreys's view of an Ulster player.

Jackson is developing nicely, let's continue with his development. We have depth at 10 in Wallace, Pienaar, Marshall, O'Connor and Olding. In fact does any other province have that much at 10? So to be frank I just don't think we need him. If we did bring in an out half it should be an experienced guy who knows the score regarding Jackson...for example someone like Dan Parks would have been perfect for Ulster for a year or so.

Anyway unless we get special dispensation to bring someone in in the light of recent events we won't be able to sign Anscombe as we already have a Project Player in Jared Payne and he will remain a Project player until the end of next season so surely this discussion is redundant.

I'm too fussed on the idea of the Project Player scheme anyway, although in saying that having watched Strauss and some of Jared Payne's recent performances I can certainly see its benefits as well!

jacothelad

I take your point Bils but looking at the current set up and looking ahead to the very near future, Pienaar is a 9 and his occasional forays into the 10 position, while welcome are going to be short lived. One more season if I recall and that with 50% of the season away with S.A.

Mincer isn't a great 10 unless you compare him to the likes of NOC and is our best 12 and is 32 years old. So, when Pienaar returns to SA Mincer will be 33+. Not a 10 and not the future.

So, by 2014 we will have Jackson and Olding assuming they both make it. Being pragmatic and while agreeing with most of your reasoning, I would scoop up young Anscombe in a heartbeat. All this is academic anyway as the IRFU would never sanction Ulster having another NIQ / NIE player unless it was on the basis of compassion as we have lost a potentially stellar player in Nevin. Without Nevin, we can't move Paddy to 10 as easily.

Wexfordboy89

hes the top sorcerer in the ITM cup this season.i think he got 20 points in his last match

thomond2006

Wexfordboy89 wrote: »

hes the top sorcerer in the ITM cup this season.i think he got 20 points in his last match

I didn't know rugby was a magician's sport! :pac:

Wexfordboy89

thomond2006 wrote: »

I didn't know rugby was a magician's sport! :pac:

lol only noticed that there now i meant hes the top scorer.

jacothelad

thomond2006 wrote: »

I didn't know rugby was a magician's sport! :pac:

Except for ROG of course.

chris_d

Difficult balance re the 10 spot. Jackson has to be the future and we should be building around him. Bringing in someone who would expect to be starting would be detrimental for Ulster and Ireland. It's a shame iHumph left really. Having a more experienced guy to bring along the newbie is the best way to do these things. But then it was a shame that Humph couldnt tackle a fish supper and would combine moments of genius with moments of madness at any given moment.

I still want to give NOC time. His goal kicking hasnt been good, but is there no one else to take kicks when he plays? Look at the options Leinster have there. Surely a good coaching staff should be able to get his open field game to a useable level for the less intense games of the season. (dont tell the english i said that)

Finally, a word about the tributes this weekend. Im really looking forward to seeing how they pan out. Ive been considering heading to the Leinster game (live in dublin) but honestly, thinking about opposition fans sing SUFTUM has been getting me emotional all week. Dont think i could handle it. Never met Spence, but the news from saturday has really affected me. As has reading the different rugby forums and the show of support from all over ireland and the u.k. Its a cliche, but it has put things in perspective.

Swiwi

bilston wrote: »

I'm too fussed on the idea of the Project Player scheme anyway, although in saying that having watched some of Jared Payne's recent performances I can certainly see its benefits as well!

How is Payne going for Ulster? I know the Blues/NZRFU were pretty disappointed to lose him to NZ rugby at such a young age - he had a great S15 and was even being talked about as an AB bolter (although a fairly poor S15 semi-final put the dampener on that a bit), but then I think he ruptured his achilles last season?

With Nonu ageing & SBW overseas, there would certainly be potential for the ABs if he returned, on the other hand if he declared for Ireland (judging from the comments people are 50/50 split on whether a non-Irish qualifying by residency would be welcomed) he could make a handy replacement for D'Arcy.

But I haven't seen him play in ages - how is his form? Does he look the goods?

backawaygo onahead

Swiwi wrote: »

How is Payne going for Ulster? I know the Blues/NZRFU were pretty disappointed to lose him to NZ rugby at such a young age - he had a great S15 and was even being talked about as an AB bolter (although a fairly poor S15 semi-final put the dampener on that a bit), but then I think he ruptured his achilles last season?

With Nonu ageing & SBW overseas, there would certainly be potential for the ABs if he returned, on the other hand if he declared for Ireland (judging from the comments people are 50/50 split on whether a non-Irish qualifying by residency would be welcomed) he could make a handy replacement for D'Arcy.

But I haven't seen him play in ages - how is his form? Does he look the goods?

We got 3 games from him last season before he ruptured his Achilles. Has played the 3 league games this season, quiet but very competent in the first 2 then against Munster he was generally outstanding, scored a try & was MOTH.

Looked the class act that we assumed we were getting, also excellent at organising the younger guys he has been playing with. Playing at 15 by the way & looks certain to be where Ulster use him, but clearly he can move to the centre if and when required.

Swiwi

backawaygo onahead wrote: »

We got 3 games from him last season before he ruptured his Achilles. Has played the 3 league games this season, quiet but very competent in the first 2 then against Munster he was generally outstanding, scored a try & was MOTH.

Looked the class act that we assumed we were getting, also excellent at organising the younger guys he has been playing with. Playing at 15 by the way & looks certain to be where Ulster use him, but clearly he can move to the centre if and when required.

Interesting. From memory he was kind of a bit-part wing/fullback for the Crusaders, but moved to the Blues for more opportunities, and certainly made a good fist of midfield. Will keep an eye on his progress. If he still harbours RWC AB ambitions, would need to be back for 2014 S15 I would have thought.

bilston

Swiwi wrote: »

Interesting. From memory he was kind of a bit-part wing/fullback for the Crusaders, but moved to the Blues for more opportunities, and certainly made a good fist of midfield. Will keep an eye on his progress. If he still harbours RWC AB ambitions, would need to be back for 2014 S15 I would have thought.

I think he was pretty close to the 2011 ABs but didn't quite make the cut. That was playing 13 however as opposed to 15. As Backaway says he was decent in the first two games, although there was one delightful pass which led to a try in the Glasgow game first up, but against Munster he was a class apart. I don't know what his long term plan is but I'm glad he's at Ulster for this season and next and hopefully beyond.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Swiwi wrote: »

Interesting. From memory he was kind of a bit-part wing/fullback for the Crusaders, but moved to the Blues for more opportunities, and certainly made a good fist of midfield. Will keep an eye on his progress. If he still harbours RWC AB ambitions, would need to be back for 2014 S15 I would have thought.

2011 S15 he played 13
2010 S15 he played 15
2009 S15 he was a 11/15 afaik

Swiwi

Swiwi wrote: »

How is Payne going for Ulster? I know the Blues/NZRFU were pretty disappointed to lose him to NZ rugby at such a young age - he had a great S15 and was even being talked about as an AB bolter (although a fairly poor S15 semi-final put the dampener on that a bit), but then I think he ruptured his achilles last season?

With Nonu ageing & SBW overseas, there would certainly be potential for the ABs if he returned, on the other hand if he declared for Ireland (judging from the comments people are 50/50 split on whether a non-Irish qualifying by residency would be welcomed) he could make a handy replacement for D'Arcy.

But I haven't seen him play in ages - how is his form? Does he look the goods?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsWQHIypZ3w&feature=relmfu

Found it! From 19:20. Hopefully Payne has taken the "chip-from-inside-your-own-22" out of his box of tricks. The resulting try killed off the Blues semi-final hopes.

CatFromHue

Swiwi wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsWQHIypZ3w&feature=relmfu

Found it! From 19:20. Hopefully Payne has taken the "chip-from-inside-your-own-22" out of his box of tricks. The resulting try killed off the Blues semi-final hopes.

Ouch!

Poor defence for the try itself but what was Cooper thinking? The Reds had a big overlap and a quick ball out would have made the wingers job far far easier!

Swiwi

CatFromHue wrote: »

Ouch!

Poor defence for the try itself but what was Cooper thinking? The Reds had a big overlap and a quick ball out would have made the wingers job far far easier!

True. In saying that, Quade had a good game that day, in fact S15 2011 was the zenith for him. Since then he has been in freefall, and I don't think he is of international quality, not at present anway. Aussie have a lot of issues when it comes to choosing a 10 for the Lions tour, and time is running out fast.

ormond lad

Chris Farrell out for rest of season after tearing this anterior cruciate ligament playing for Ulster U20s on Fri night
http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/10830.php

thomond2006

ormond lad wrote: »

Chris Farrell out for rest of season after tearing this anterior cruciate ligament playing for Ulster U20s on Fri night
http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/10830.php

faaack, terrible news for him.

jacothelad

FFS.

bilston

Bad news for him. I hope it doesn't impact on him long term. Bad blow for him and the Irish U20s albeit it will give someone else an opportunity.

So tragedy and injury has suddenly left us looking a bit light in terms of midfield options. Marshall, Cave and Wallace are our only frontline centres now and any one of them could be called up by Ireland. Allen, Payne and Bowe can play there, in fact it's Allen's traditional position, but rather like Trimble I have a feeling that Allen's best hope of progress is on the wing. A conundrum for Anscombe.

profitius

Its a blow for Ulster. The only positive about it is hes not a first choice player yet. A year getting pro 12 rugby would have really helped Farrell develop.


I've seen Ulster a few times this season and I must say Jared Payne looks to be the newcomer of the season. He makes things happen every time he gets the ball. Hes a similar player to Nacewa.

mogwai81

Devastated to hear about Chris Farrell, was really hoping he might get 7/8 games this season. Was looking
forward to watching an Irish 12 with his size and ability!

sixy

disapointing, like the look of him, hope his rehab goes well

sixy

Tommy Bowe will make his hugely anticipated return to the Ulster colours when he lines out on the wing against Cardiff (tomorrow, Cardiff Arms Park, 7.05pm).

Mark Anscombe has continued the rotation policy which has served his side so well since the start of his tenure. McComb, Tuohy, Henry and Henderson also come into XV.

Ferris is rested and Muller has picked up a slight knock and is ruled out. Paddy Wallace has returned from injury and is named on the bench.

(15-9): J Payne; T Bowe, M Allen, D Cave, A Trimble; P Jackson, P Marshall;
(1-8): T Court, N Brady, J Afoa, N McComb, D Tuohy, I Henderson, C Henry (c), N Williams;
Replacements (16-23): R Herring, C Black, A Macklin, L Stevenson , M McComish, M Heaney, P Wallace, C Gilroy.

irishbucsfan

Big test for Michael Allen. He's had a great start to the season but if he performs well at 13 then he would have a real possibility of making the Heineken Cup XXIII thanks to his ability to play both wing and center.

Maybe that's a stretch though with both Trimble and Bowe also capable, they might get away with Gilroy... maybe we'll see Gilroy come on for Allen to test that out?

jacothelad

I really am a bit mystified by Allen at 13 and Cave at 12. Allen is a 13 by trade but Cave hasn't played at 12 a.f.a.i.a.a. Surely it would have made far more sense to have Mincer start and Allen on the bench. Odd. cave will have his hands full with Dr. Roberts. Is L. Marshall injured after his Ireland get together?

Hagz

Iain Henderson

backawaygo onahead

No Jaco, Marshall is rested. The other thing of interest is that McComb was due to start with Johann & Tuohy on the bench.

Cave apparently not unhappy at 12 since it appears BOD has just signed a new 20 year contract - yes twenty - and has apparently taken a mortgage on teh 13 shirt. Not that Darren asked for it you understand, just not unhappy.

The "rested" in - Ferris is rested - appears a euphemism for not 100%.

Looking at the Caaaaadiff pack I reckon Maaaaaaak has gone for a bit of size & expects to beast them, I as a current "Maaaaaaaaak may know what he's at" man say I damn well hope so.

Caaaaadiff have lost some talent this year & most have brought in dross by and large.

Looks winnable but very much depends on whether there is a shadow of Nev hanging over them. Could be very very flat, that type of emotion is seldom positive, tems want so much to perform but can't.

bilston

mogwai81 wrote: »

Devastated to hear about Chris Farrell, was really hoping he might get 7/8 games this season. Was looking
forward to watching an Irish 12 with his size and ability!

He'll be back and think of it like this he has the next 6-9 months to build his upper body strength so he will come back stronger.

We just have to hope the knee recovers ok but he's young so fingers crossed it will.