Ulster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

shuffol

Highlights are up on UAFC.

irishbucsfan

jacothelad wrote: »

Not so far and for a guy who got parachuted in because the IRFU refused Ulster permission to re sign Wannenburg, he's exceeded all reasonable expectations. He's played 4 league games and three friendlies. He's been m.o.t.m. in 3 of them, has scored 5 tries and he apparently or allegedly isn't totally fit. He was immense tonight. What's he going to do to complete the liability? Just make appalling mistakes and not score tries, offload, but get sent off etc. or throw a few chancy, glory passes that bomb out. If he does, do you think he might be dropped? Wilson has been injured btw. If Williams keeps on being such the complete waste of blood and organs you seem certain he is then Wilson will find it hard to get a start. As will Diack. So until Williams' appalling play kicks in well then, we're golden either way.

Liability was the wrong choice of word. He does incredible things 50% of the time and he does stupid things 50% of the time.

Tonight he offloaded directly to the opposition a number of times, knocked on a couple, cleared out Henderson clumsily from a secured ruck which put ulster under pressure again, let the ball come out of the back of the scrum a number of times, another scrum he was told to use it and didn't (although ref did nothing so it was ok). Probably more when you watch it back. Then he also scored his tries and smashed people around the place in general.

He's so entertaining and such a threat with ball in hand that I certainly wouldn't have a problem with him starting all season. But when you're playing a game where possession is more valuable than it was tonight I think those mistakes will mean a lot more.

phog

Wow, Ulster gave Cardiff a fair beating tonight. Didn't see the game but according to twitter Nick had a MOTM performance, iirc, this is his 2nd in three games not bad for a guy that Hook thought should be banished from Ulster.

Podge_irl

phog wrote: »

Wow, Ulster gave Cardiff a fair beating tonight. Didn't see the game but according to twitter Nick had a MOTM performance, iirc, this is his 2nd in three games not bad for a guy that Hook thought should be banished from Ulster.

Almost reason enough to keep him.

jacothelad

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Liability was the wrong choice of word. He does incredible things 50% of the time and he does stupid things 50% of the time.

Tonight he offloaded directly to the opposition a number of times, knocked on a couple, cleared out Henderson clumsily from a secured ruck which put ulster under pressure again, let the ball come out of the back of the scrum a number of times, another scrum he was told to use it and didn't (although ref did nothing so it was ok). Probably more when you watch it back. Then he also scored his tries and smashed people around the place in general.

He's so entertaining and such a threat with ball in hand that I certainly wouldn't have a problem with him starting all season. But when you're playing a game where possession is more valuable than it was tonight I think those mistakes will mean a lot more.

Everything you say is true but as you say he is entertaining. As he gets fitter and gets to gel with the team perhaps he'll become better.

bilston

Great performance from Ulster...well after the first 10mins which was to be expected...In saying that if Warburton hand't knocked on with the line at his mercy things could gave been different.

Still with a pack as dominant as Ulster's you can't fail to score tries with the likes of Bowe, Trimble, Payne, Wallace, Jackson, Cave and Gilroy about.

The Ulster back row ruled the roost against a trio that included Warburton. Henderson cemented his place as a serious prospect and it was great to see Henry back. I can see what Buccs is saying about Williams...but it came off last night. In a tight game against Leinster (not that our games with Leinster are ever tight!), Leicester, Munster or Clermont his one handed offloads may be more a negative than a positive.

Payne oozes class and Bowe was rusty but still scored twice! I really like what I see from Michael Allen, shame about the injury, and as for Jackson I don't ever remember seeing a 20 year old Irish 10 put in a level of performance like he has done in the last few games.

Anyway that was a great tribute to Nevin last night, now the next tribute is to keep it going for the rest of the season.

jacothelad

bilston wrote: »

Great performance from Ulster...well after the first 10mins which was to be expected...In saying that if Warburton hand't knocked on with the line at his mercy things could gave been different.

Still with a pack as dominant as Ulster's you can't fail to score tries with the likes of Bowe, Trimble, Payne, Wallace, Jackson, Cave and Gilroy about.

The Ulster back row ruled the roost against a trio that included Warburton. Henderson cemented his place as a serious prospect and it was great to see Henry back. I can see what Buccs is saying about Williams...but it came off last night. In a tight game against Leinster (not that our games with Leinster are ever tight!), Leicester, Munster or Clermont his one handed offloads may be more a negative than a positive.

Payne oozes class and Bowe was rusty but still scored twice! I really like what I see from Michael Allen, shame about the injury, and as for Jackson I don't ever remember seeing a 20 year old Irish 10 put in a level of performance like he has done in the last few games.

Anyway that was a great tribute to Nevin last night, now the next tribute is to keep it going for the rest of the season.

Great post Bils. I agree 100%

leonard7

any news on Michael Allens injury?

jacothelad

leonard7 wrote: »

any news on Michael Allens injury?

Nothing as yet a.f.a.i.k.

thomond2006

Ulster v Connacht will be a tasty game next weekend!

PJ is slick, has been for years. Lets keep him out of Ireland squads till Ireland are ready to have him (not the other way round!).

leonard7

anyone know if you can buy this jersey?

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?start=100&um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&biw=1525&bih=712&tbm=isch&tbnid=Dco9GK_cgUkfRM:&imgrefurl=http://www.irishrugby.ie/provincial/news/27132.php&docid=V_oFrH-NJAoI0M&imgurl=http://www.irishrugby.ie/images/news/StephenFerris3_lineout_UlstertrainRavenhill12.jpg&w=495&h=495&ei=0hxoUIPIM5GX0QXLqIDYBg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=492&vpy=222&dur=470&hovh=225&hovw=225&tx=158&ty=119&sig=112555873379708948306&page=5&tbnh=173&tbnw=197&ndsp=27&ved=1t:429,r:22,s:100,i:161

totallegend

Preliminary Ulster Squad announced for Friday; Rory Best in line for first appearance. Still no Pienaar but a strong squad:

FORWARDS (14):
Rob Herring, Rory Best, Declan Fitzpatrick, John Afoa, Tom Court, Callum Black, Johann Muller, Dan Tuohy, Lewis Stevenson, Stephen Ferris, Mike McComish, Iain Henderson, Chris Henry, Nick Williams.
BACKS (11):
Paul Marshall, Michael Heaney, Niall O’Connor, Paddy Jackson, Paddy Wallace, Darren Cave, Luke Marshall, Andrew Trimble, Tommy Bowe, Craig Gilroy, Jared Payne.

backawaygo onahead

With Castres next week, Rory a likely starter, maybe Deccie to see if he is good to go & everyone seems to be expecting Fez back. Johann to return assuming fit.

Despite noises saying Allen may be fit I don't expect him so Patrick Wallace to start & Skywalker to bench.

thomond2006

totallegend wrote: »

Preliminary Ulster Squad announced for Friday; Rory Best in line for first appearance. Still no Pienaar but a strong squad:

FORWARDS (14):
Rob Herring, Rory Best, Declan Fitzpatrick, John Afoa, Tom Court, Callum Black, Johann Muller, Dan Tuohy, Lewis Stevenson, Stephen Ferris, Mike McComish, Iain Henderson, Chris Henry, Nick Williams.
BACKS (11):
Paul Marshall, Michael Heaney, Niall O’Connor, Paddy Jackson, Paddy Wallace, Darren Cave, Luke Marshall, Andrew Trimble, Tommy Bowe, Craig Gilroy, Jared Payne.

Pienaar is back next Monday, it will be interesting to see if Ulster give him time off since next week the HEC starts.

I reckon Ulster will name their strongest side, it will be interesting to see who starts between Gilroy and Trimble.

irishbucsfan

Looking at that side you realise just how good Ulster could be this year. I'd expect to see:

Court, Best, Afoa, Muller, Tuohy/Stevenson, Ferris, Henry, Williams; Marshall, PJ, Trimble, Wallace, Cave, Bowe, Payne

I'd expect McComish and Luke Marshall will be the two dropping out (NOC taking the dreaded 22 jersey )

Although as Thomond said, wouldn't be surprised if Gilroy is putting pressure on Trimble for his place these days... Great competition there.

backawaygo onahead

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Looking at that side you realise just how good Ulster could be this year. I'd expect to see:

Court, Best, Afoa, Muller, Tuohy/Stevenson, Ferris, Henry, Williams; Marshall, PJ, Trimble, Wallace, Cave, Bowe, Payne

I'd expect McComish and Luke Marshall will be the two dropping out (NOC taking the dreaded 22 jersey )

Although as Thomond said, wouldn't be surprised if Gilroy is putting pressure on Trimble for his place these days... Great competition there.

You are one wrong on the starting team, maybe 2 depending on your 2nd row selection;)

bilston

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Looking at that side you realise just how good Ulster could be this year. I'd expect to see:

Court, Best, Afoa, Muller, Tuohy/Stevenson, Ferris, Henry, Williams; Marshall, PJ, Trimble, Wallace, Cave, Bowe, Payne

I'd expect McComish and Luke Marshall will be the two dropping out (NOC taking the dreaded 22 jersey )

Although as Thomond said, wouldn't be surprised if Gilroy is putting pressure on Trimble for his place these days... Great competition there.

I think NOC will drop out and probably McComish...but in fairness to McComish he's played well when given the opportunity this season and in MA's mind he may still be ahead of Henderson in the pecking order...for now anyway...however I still expect Henderson will get the nod.

As for the team I've learnt not to second guess MA but I'll do it anyway. I think he'll want to get as close to his HEC XV onto the pitch from the start as possible, however there are 5 or 6 spots that are either up for grabs or else have players just returning from either rest or injury. However there are some interesting questions:

15 Payne
14 Bowe
13 Cave
12 Wallace - Marshall has done well but Wallace really was excellent against Cardiff, we'll find out how Anscombe sees it.
11 Trimble - I think Trimble will get the nod but I wouldn't rule Gilroy out for a start, he's impressed from the bench and has looked a bit more threatening than Trimble IMO.
10 Jackson
9 Marshall
1 Court
2 Best - This is Rory's first game so he may start from the bench?
3 Afoa
4 Muller - Muller is just back from a slight knock, maybe Stevenson might start and Muller will be protected?
5 Tuohy - Stevenson has been excellent this season, does he deserve to be dropped? But then Tuohy was very good last weekend!
6 Ferris - Apparently he has a bit of a shoulder injury, nothing serious I assume but I wouldn't be surprised if Henderson started this one with Fez held back on the bench.
7 Henry
8 Williams

irishbucsfan

Maybe it would be a good idea to get Fitzpatrick another bit of game time as he'll probably not get many full games during the H Cup/AI period.

backawaygo onahead

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Maybe it would be a good idea to get Fitzpatrick another bit of game time as he'll probably not get many full games during the H Cup/AI period.

Bingo.

backawaygo onahead

Late news: Michael Heaney signed until end of season.

thomond2006

backawaygo onahead wrote: »

Late news: Michael Heaney signed until end of season.

I'm not surprised, his peformances have merited it.

bilston

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'm not surprised, his peformances have merited it.

He's done alright and certainly seems to be better than McIlroy, Heaney was pure muck against the Ospreys though, however to be fair to the lad he was paired up with you know who! He seems more comfortable playing alongside PJ who he played with at school.

thomond2006

bilston wrote: »

He's done alright and certainly seems to be better than McIlroy, Heaney was pure muck against the Ospreys though, however to be fair to the lad he was paired up with you know who! He seems more comfortable playing alongside PJ who he played with at school.

Yes it's a bit difficult I'd say to play with a guy who is permanently rooted to a spot 20 metres behind you.

profitius

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Looking at that side you realise just how good Ulster could be this year. I'd expect to see:

Northampton are favourites for their HEC group. The saints are good but I think Ulster have a much better team.

thomond2006

profitius wrote: »

Northampton are favourites for the HEC group. The saints are good but I think Ulster have a much better team.

Foden will miss the first couple of HEC games which will hurt them, their props aren't 80 minutes players. They'll never achieve if they don't stick to playing the same outhalf, plus neither are up to it. If I were Mallinder, I would get rid of both Myler and Lamb and sign a player the level of Nick Evans.

totallegend

thomond2006 wrote: »

Foden will miss the first couple of HEC games which will hurt them, their props aren't 80 minutes players.

Plus Hartley is doubtful for the opening rounds as well so Saints could be down a couple of points before Ulster come up against them

thomond2006 wrote: »

They'll never achieve if they don't stick to playing the same outhalf, plus neither are up to it. If I were Mallinder, I would get rid of both Myler and Lamb and sign a player the level of Nick Evans.

I agree, just not sure how many players of the level of Nick Evans are floating around, he is a class act and not far off the best OH in the competition.

bilston

The group could be tight enough. I fancy Ulster will win all three home games, and actually I'd be hoping for 12 points minimum from our home games but actually I think we're capable of getting 14.

Away from home it gets tougher obviously, Glasgow is never an easy place to go, if the lads are focused they should have enough for a win but if they're off their game they'll lose.

Castres away is the last game, that suits us perfectly as I expect they'll be out of contention by then and while French teams always turn up at home I really do think this will be the year we break our duck on French soil (notwithstanding our pre season win in Bayonne:D).

Northampton away will be tough but strangely the Glasgow away game worries me more. I'm just totally unimpressed by the AP, I watched Northampton a few weeks ago, I think it was Exeter they were playing and to be honest while they'll obviously be hard to beat at Franklins Gardens I think we're more than capable of beating them.

Anyway I've always felt the key to Ulster this season was how PJ went at 10. So far the signs are very good, if he stays fit and keeps up his current level of performance (and improves) then I think we'll have a good season.

backawaygo onahead

Like your post Bilston, FG will not be any easy game of course but it should never be forgotten that BJ was just back from injury & TC boaked on the pitch before the game at MK.

2 years on I don't think either of their props are as good as then & our forward strength is considerably better plus of course we have deprived them of Roger.

I always fear the trip to Weegies, they are crap but have a habit of bringing others down to their hateful style of play - completely negative & hoping to scavenge.

Assuming we wreck Castres first up & do a job at Weegies the following week I see Saints being the team playing catch up.

thomond2006

Random question: When is Pienaar's contract up?

totallegend

thomond2006 wrote: »

Random question: When is Pienaar's contract up?

End of next season afaik

jacothelad

totallegend wrote: »

End of next season afaik

I think it's the end of next season. He renewed for 2 years I think.

bilston

Mark Anscombe has made five changes to the starting team for the PRO12 derby against Connacht at Ravenhill on Fri (7.05pm).
Rory Best will play for his Province for the first time since the Heineken Cup final in May. Declan Fitzpatrick, Johann Muller, Stephen Ferris and Paddy Wallace are all called into the starting XV.
Ulster XV & replacements to face Connacht, RaboDirect PRO12, Friday 5th October, Ravenhill (7.05pm):
(15-9): J Payne; T Bowe, D Cave, P Wallace, A Trimble; P Jackson, P Marshall;
(1-8): T Court, R Best, D Fitzpatrick, J Muller (c), D Tuohy, S Ferris, C Henry, N Williams;
Replacements (16-23): R Herring, C Black, J Afoa, L Stevenson, M McComish, M Heaney, L Marshall, C Gilroy.

Only slight annoyance is the selection of McComish over Henderson on the bench...in saying that McComish has done well so far this season so probably deserves it, but we all know that Henderson won't be behind McComish for too much longer...

irishbucsfan

Wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if Henderson was to take a step back now and really focus on filling out his frame. He has the potential to be a massive guy and I'd hope he'll go on to fill in for Muller when his playing days come to an end. Ulster have Ferris, Diack and McComish so it's not like they're really stuck for blindside flankers.

Wexfordboy89

Michael Heaney has extended his deal until the end of the season

http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/15184/8137026/Ulster-reward-scrum-half-Michael-Heaney-with-extended-deal

jacothelad

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if Henderson was to take a step back now and really focus on filling out his frame. He has the potential to be a massive guy and I'd hope he'll go on to fill in for Muller when his playing days come to an end. Ulster have Ferris, Diack and McComish so it's not like they're really stuck for blindside flankers.

Henderson is already heavier than anyone else at Ulster apart from Afoa. If he gets any heavier he will lose a lot of what makes him a potentially great player - his pace.

irishbucsfan

jacothelad wrote: »

Henderson is already heavier than anyone else at Ulster apart from Afoa. If he gets any heavier he will lose a lot of what makes him a potentially great player - his pace.

It's not about adding weight. It's about a year in the gym adding power. You cannot be a great 2nd row without being able to generate power in the scrums and in the tight.

I don't think he'll necessarilly have to sacrifice speed to manage that. Although he may be too short to be able to realistically maintain his athleticism as a professional lock.

jacothelad

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's not about adding weight. It's about a year in the gym adding power. You cannot be a great 2nd row without being able to generate power in the scrums and in the tight.

I don't think he'll necessarilly have to sacrifice speed to manage that. Although he may be too short to be able to realistically maintain his athleticism as a professional lock.

Is 6'6" too short? I'd have thought being bigger and faster and more athletic than POC and DOC, Tuohy and Ryan and the same height or taller was a good place to start.

irishbucsfan

jacothelad wrote: »

Is 6'6" too short? I'd have thought being bigger and faster and more athletic than POC and DOC, Tuohy and Ryan and the same height or taller was a good place to start.

I didn't say he was too short to be great. I said he may be too short to stay as athletic as he is right now. The players who keep that range are guys like Richie Gray who can get away with it at scrum time.

I don't think he needs to add any weight, never said he did. He needs to add power and fill out properly, like every emerging 2nd row player at this point in their career. Do you really think he is ready to scrummage against a top class outfit?

jacothelad

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I didn't say he was too short to be great. I said he may be too short to stay as athletic as he is right now. The players who keep that range are guys like Richie Gray who can get away with it at scrum time.

I don't think he needs to add any weight, never said he did. He needs to add power and fill out properly, like every emerging 2nd row player at this point in their career. Do you really think he is ready to scrummage against a top class outfit?

" Although he may be too short to be able to realistically maintain his athleticism as a professional lock."

I really don't understand this. Are you really suggesting that there are no athletic 6'6" locks e.g. Mick Galwey, 6'4", Paul O'Connell, 6'6" or Donacha Ryan also 6'6", or Dan Tuohy who is very athletic at 6'5". It is obvious to me that there are in fact, many, but for some reason Henderson is 'too short'.? Tom Croft is 6'6" and very athletic but I'd rather have Tuohy, Ryan or even the under rated Stevenson ahead of him as a lock. I'd even rather have Henderson ahead of him as a lock. Maybe he'll grow another inch. Maybe he'll turn into a grunt merchant only. We don't know.

I wouldn't want him to turn into a 20 stone player like Bob Casey and you are correct that he needs to carry a lot of hard muscle. As for his scrummaging ability - how would we know? I guess that his coach thinks he will need a while and he has fierce competition from 3 good players plus McComb who is a decent operator as well. . We can only guess that he needs time. At what age was POC good enough even though he was / is 'smaller'? I'm pretty sure he was about 21 or 22 when he got his first cap. How would you rate Devin Toner's 'athleticism? Is he too tall to be athletic? Ally Kellock is 6'9" and not very atheltic. Go figure.

backawaygo onahead

I'm pretty sure you saw plenty of scrummage power last week, with McComb on Tom's Right arsecheek & Henderson on the left cheek & with a little effort from TC himself they shattered the tighthead side of the Caaaaaaaaaaaaaadiff pack.

It often revolves around what happens on JA's side of the scrum, not last week. Must say something about the boys behind TC. Kudos to both.

Fooker

Henderson certainly has potential to fill in for Muller and O'Connell eventually. Note that POC was quite fast and more athletic at his age..

CIARAN_BOYLE

Props Afoa Black Court Fitzpatrick Lutton Macklin McCall
Hookers Best Brady Herring
Locks Henderson McComb Muller Stevenson Tuohy
Backrowers Diack Doyle Ferris Henry McComish Williams Wilson
SHs Heaney Marshall Pienaar
OHs Jackson NOC
Centers Allen Cave Marshall Farrell Wallace
Back Three Bowe D'arcy Gilroy Nelson Payne

HEC squad just in case anyone hasn't had a look at it yet

thomond2006

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Props Afoa Black Court Fitzpatrick Lutton Macklin McCall
Hookers Best Brady Herring
Locks Henderson McComb Muller Stevenson Tuohy
Backrowers Diack Doyle Ferris Henry McComish Williams Wilson
SHs Heaney Marshall Pienaar
OHs Jackson NOC
Centers Allen Cave Farrell Wallace
Back Three Bowe D'arcy Gilroy Nelson Payne

HEC squad just in case anyone hasn't had a look at it yet

Luke Marshall is in there too. I thought Farrell was supposed to be gone till next season?

Cpt_Blackbeard

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Props Afoa Black Court Fitzpatrick Lutton Macklin McCall
Hookers Best Brady Herring
Locks Henderson McComb Muller Stevenson Tuohy
Backrowers Diack Doyle Ferris Henry McComish Williams Wilson
SHs Heaney Marshall Pienaar
OHs Jackson NOC
Centers Allen Cave Farrell Wallace
Back Three Bowe D'arcy Gilroy Nelson Payne

HEC squad just in case anyone hasn't had a look at it yet

Has Farrell not been ruled out for the remainder of the season?

CIARAN_BOYLE

thomond2006 wrote: »

Luke Marshall is in there too. I thought Farrell was supposed to be gone till next season?

true but Farrell is named in the squad
http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchcentre/ulster_rugby.php?section=2

Podge_irl

Perhaps he might be back for the end of the season and Ulster simply have no other centres worth giving a place in the squad to?

bilston

Podge_irl wrote: »

Perhaps he might be back for the end of the season and Ulster simply have no other centres worth giving a place in the squad to?

The squad was announced last week, maybe it was submitted before Farrell's injury, although that was 2 weeks ago. The only other backs that I can think that could have been added in his stead are Chris Cochrane and Stuart Olding but Cochrane is a winger, Olding can play centre of course but they've decided not to name him. I don't think there is anyone else unless we went for someone like Stuart McCloskey who is a good AIL centre who has played a bit for the Ravens.

awec

Has anyone bought the new home jersey?

What's that 70 quid edition like? What's the fitting like?

Wouldn't mind getting one but can't get to Ravenhill any time soon and all ye can buy down here is Leinster and Munster.

bilston

awec wrote: »

Has anyone bought the new home jersey?

What's that 70 quid edition like? What's the fitting like?

Wouldn't mind getting one but can't get to Ravenhill any time soon and all ye can buy down here is Leinster and Munster.

You should be able to buy it on-line via SS Moores surely?

Personally I like the black away kit, anyway I think I've mentioned it enough times to the wife to expect it to be on Santa's list this year!