Ulster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

Monty Burnz

I'm just wondering if those here complaining about Gilroy coming in for Trimble would have been complaining if Gilroy was omitted instead?

bilston

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I'm just wondering if those here complaining about Gilroy coming in for Trimble would have been complaining if Gilroy was omitted instead?

Before Gilroy even played against Fiji last week it was hinted in the press that Trimble would lose his place after the SA game. I don't think anyone is complaining about Gilroy's selection, I think the interest is in why exactly it has become accepted fact in a number of places that Trimble was poor against SA? What did he do wrong that others didn't? I'm sure most of us querying that aren't in the slightest bit unhappy that Gilroy has been selected though.

ScissorPaperRock

I think the complaining about Trimble's omission is a bit unnecessary, especially if you're happy the Gilroy is getting in and that it isn't Bowe that should be replaced.

It's just complaining for the sake of complaining.

I feel that Trimble just hasn't done much to get excited about, while there is some hope that Gilroy might.

Even if there had been some murmurings in the press about Trimble being replaced after the SA game, it doesn't mean that the coach was thinking that at that time.

I'm no defender of Kidney, but when a decision is the right one, why go looking for reasons to be unhappy about it? Particularly, for once, when it hasn't been forced.

Stanza2

I was not "complaining" about Gilroy getting in. Fair play to him and best wishes. I just was gutted for Trimbs. Big calls have to be made by Declan and he made one. If it is the right call remains to be seen. It is a right call in your opinion but it is all just an opinion. Good luck to Ireland and Craig.

I do hope that Trimbs stays and plays away, but............... if he does see his Irish future disappearing, if he was going to be playing second fiddle in international terms, (not getting an IRFU contract next time?) then I do think that he would be looking at moving and who would blame him. T O'Leary and iHumphs saw not future and decided to get away, it is a short playing career after all. I was not complaining, merely stating that big decisions sometimes have certain ramifications as a result.

jacothelad

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

I think the complaining about Trimble's omission is a bit unnecessary, especially if you're happy the Gilroy is getting in and that it isn't Bowe that should be replaced.

It's just complaining for the sake of complaining.

I feel that Trimble just hasn't done much to get excited about, while there is some hope that Gilroy might.

Even if there had been some murmurings in the press about Trimble being replaced after the SA game, it doesn't mean that the coach was thinking that at that time.

I'm no defender of Kidney, but when a decision is the right one, why go looking for reasons to be unhappy about it? Particularly, for once, when it hasn't been forced.

I'm not complaining for the sake of it about Trimble being replaced by someone who is / might be better. I have absolutely no problem with Trimble being dropped if he really did play badly. There are two things that stick in my craw. It's the constant referral in the press (and by posters in a knee jerk reaction) that he 'had a poor game v. S.A.' and as a consequence, is being dropped. It seems that the selections are being made by press opinion and puff pieces in the papers( or by selective leaks? Like Ross playing badly by G.T. and needing game time...arse.) If that is the criteria then it should apply to everyone who had a similar game. No one has actually been able to say in what way he had a bad game. He didn't have a good one, that's for sure. He is a winger and touched the ball 7 times in the game, nearly all in his own 22 half, with defenders right there and a few suicide passes in there. Here is the list if players who had good games against the Boks. ..........McCarthy........ That's it.

There were some who were o.k. Healy showed up a bit as did Strauss and Zebo didn't look out of place. Henry was pretty decent. (Would it be a bit naughty to suggest that now he has Kearney's shirt, Zebo has also inherited the refusal to pass. )

Anyway. if the criteria is for under-performing players in one game to make way for those who are clearly better or in better form then why is Bowe still there. Trimble gets played out of position to allow Bowe to play at 14. Trimble is also a 14, btw, not an 11. The two offer different challenges and it isn't an easy swap. If poor form covers multiple games, why do Darcy, ROG and Murray escape the 'he had a BAD GAME' press.

Let's have all the players who had bad games challenged. Let's also apply the same criteria to all employees of the IRFU and get rid of the ones who have bad 'games'. Now wouldn't that be a fresh wind blowing through the camp.

ScissorPaperRock

I agree with a lot of that.

But I don't know if it the decision was made on the basis of one game. For me, Trimble, while solid, just doesn't fill me with hope of scoring tries. That's based off the last six or seven games I've seen him in. Maybe Gilroy would have fared no better, but he's done enough to suggest he's worth a shot. So that decision, for me, is a good one.

In other positions, e.g. inside centre, outhalf bench (which are really the only two I have a significant problem with), questions should be asked. But, for me, the question is not, 'why Trimble?', I think it's more about why aren't O'gara/D'arcy etc being replaced.

sjwpjw

why not leave darc out. i think trimble has much more to offer....

Digifriendly

Ulster match live on red button (301 Freeview) from 6.00pm followed by Edinburgh vs Ospreys at 7.45pm.

CIARAN_BOYLE

sjwpjw wrote: »

why not leave darc out. i think trimble has much more to offer....

Trimble isn't a 12. There are a lot of good wingers that deserve a shot but there are no real options at 12.

dropkickrugby

can someone tell us how Ulster won this at the death? no stream or sky red button where I am at the minute

jacothelad

dropkickrugby wrote: »

can someone tell us how Ulster won this at the death? no stream or sky red button where I am at the minute

It's a mystery. Awful.

ulster_Beef

Last week I said to myself a win is a win. I have to tell myself that tonight again....

It was Frustrating to watch. However, I recalled the state of Ulster rugby several years ago when they were battling it out at the bottom of the league. I would not have predicted an away win of any, never mind 2 in a row in the space of a week back then.

Scrappy as the wins are, Ulster are improving, dramatically. I will take any kind of win but my nerves can't.

dropkickrugby

in fairness it looked like Williams got two very tough Italian TMO decisions on the RTE highlights. I think the run Ulster are on is bringing its own pressure - like the ABS drawing with Australia, that game was handicapped very high for the ABS yet they struggled. they'll lose soon enough I reckon, and maybe the sooner the better for them thinking about the longterm. They dont want to start having those doubts in a Hcup game

bilston

dropkickrugby wrote: »

in fairness it looked like Williams got two very tough Italian TMO decisions on the RTE highlights. I think the run Ulster are on is bringing its own pressure - like the ABS drawing with Australia, that game was handicapped very high for the ABS yet they struggled. they'll lose soon enough I reckon, and maybe the sooner the better for them thinking about the longterm. They dont want to start having those doubts in a Hcup game

Maybe the run we're on is bringing it's own pressure...but we were missing 15 or so players tonight, and last week week it was even more...the fact that we're still winning is a positive. Many good sides have lost in Treviso. Still it's been two poor performances in a row, but I believe we're 10 points clear at the top and 16 points clear of 5th place so we'll take it!

Scioch

jacothelad wrote: »

What Trimble did wrong was being Trimble. Don't give a winger the ball and then blame him for not saving the teams face so boot him out. Deflect the blame from where it squarely lies - on a man who wouldn't know a good rugby player these days if he fell on him. It's of a parcel with the shameful treatment of Tom Court.

Seen a quote from him in an article today where he says "A wingers job is to finish off the good work of the 14 men inside him". Trimble is too much of a worker, Kidney wants someone to stand on the wing waiting for the ball, which he wont see a whole lot of going by recent games.

Fez101

I wonder if Trimble might be better served returning to outside centre, he was fantastic there when he first broke into the Ulster team many moons ago. He's a great finisher, but perhaps not got the absolute gas that say Gilroy has. I've always felt his game was better suited to 2nd centre, wonder what people think?

CIARAN_BOYLE

Fez101 wrote: »

I wonder if Trimble might be better served returning to outside centre, he was fantastic there when he first broke into the Ulster team many moons ago. He's a great finisher, but perhaps not got the absolute gas that say Gilroy has. I've always felt his game was better suited to 2nd centre, wonder what people think?

I don't think he has the hands for 13. He got by when he burst onto the scene because people didn't realise that he didn't have the hands for it. After a dip in form when people caught on he moved to the wing pretty snappish.

jacothelad

Fez101 wrote: »

I wonder if Trimble might be better served returning to outside centre, he was fantastic there when he first broke into the Ulster team many moons ago. He's a great finisher, but perhaps not got the absolute gas that say Gilroy has. I've always felt his game was better suited to 2nd centre, wonder what people think?

Trimble is probably as quick / quicker than Gilroy...certainly over a long run.

the_doctor199

Injury update....(Important bits highlighted)

Ulster captain Johann Muller could return to action this Sunday for the top-of-the-table RaboDirect PRO12 game against Scarlets...

The South African lock picked up a thumb injury in the Heineken Cup win over Glasgow Warriors at Scotstoun last month.
Meanwhile, Rory Best is targeting a return to action for the Heineken Cup third round clash with Northampton on 7th December, having been sidelined with a neck injury suffered during Ulster's win over Dragons a month ago.

The Ireland hooker said: “The injury is coming on well - it's just like any ligament, it just needs a bit of time and rest. It's got that now and we've trained it pretty hard over the past two weeks. Hopefully in the next while, it should come on a lot and I'll hopefully be back playing in the next two weeks.”

Fellow forwards Stephen Ferris (ankle) and Lewis Stevenson (knee) are recovering well but are likely to be unavailable for another few weeks.

Australian born flanker Sean Doyle has returned to light training after a broken leg and may see some game time with the Ravens in the coming weeks.

thomond2006

Ulster squad:

Forwards:
Rob Herring, Rory Best,
Callum Black, Tom Court, Declan Fitzpatrick, John Afoa,
Neil McComb, Johann Muller, Dan Tuohy,
Iain Henderson, Robbie Diack, Mike McComish, Roger Wilson, Nick Williams.

Backs:
Michael Heaney, Paul Marshall,
Niall O'Connor, Paddy Jackson,
Luke Marshall, Darren Cave,
Tommy Bowe, Andrew Trimble, Craig Gilroy, Jared Payne, Peter Nelson.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20508485

Great news on Best, the reports at the time of his injury were worrying. No second row crisis either with Muller back now.

Going to Scarlets will be a test for Ulster, Scarlets have to be delighted with the Munster win. If Scarlets have their internationals back they will be a tough prospect, their backline is weakened without Scott Williams, Davies and North.

Glass Prison 1214

thomond2006 wrote: »

Ulster squad:

Forwards:
Rob Herring, Rory Best,
Callum Black, Tom Court, Declan Fitzpatrick, John Afoa,
Neil McComb, Johann Muller, Dan Tuohy,
Iain Henderson, Robbie Diack, Mike McComish, Roger Wilson, Nick Williams.

Backs:
Michael Heaney, Paul Marshall,
Niall O'Connor, Paddy Jackson,
Luke Marshall, Darren Cave,
Tommy Bowe, Andrew Trimble, Craig Gilroy, Jared Payne, Peter Nelson.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20508485

Great news on Best, the reports at the time of his injury were worrying. No second row crisis either with Muller back now.

Going to Scarlets will be a test for Ulster, Scarlets have to be delighted with the Munster win. If Scarlets have their internationals back they will be a tough prospect, their backline is weakened without Scott Williams, Davies and North.

No Paddy Wallace, is he injured?

thomond2006

Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »

No Paddy Wallace, is he injured?

Maybe he's got the week off as well or he's picked up a knock. Tbh if I was him I'd want to play in this since Marshall is breathing down his neck. Wallace is a classy player though.

bilston

thomond2006 wrote: »

Ulster squad:

Forwards:
Rob Herring, Rory Best,
Callum Black, Tom Court, Declan Fitzpatrick, John Afoa,
Neil McComb, Johann Muller, Dan Tuohy,
Iain Henderson, Robbie Diack, Mike McComish, Roger Wilson, Nick Williams.

Backs:
Michael Heaney, Paul Marshall,
Niall O'Connor, Paddy Jackson,
Luke Marshall, Darren Cave,
Tommy Bowe, Andrew Trimble, Craig Gilroy, Jared Payne, Peter Nelson.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20508485

Great news on Best, the reports at the time of his injury were worrying. No second row crisis either with Muller back now.

Going to Scarlets will be a test for Ulster, Scarlets have to be delighted with the Munster win. If Scarlets have their internationals back they will be a tough prospect, their backline is weakened without Scott Williams, Davies and North.

Sure Wales are playing Australia so the Scarlets will be badly weakened, however they did beat Munster away last week with the team I assume they'll have out on Sunday so there are no guarentees.

ScissorPaperRock

bilston wrote: »

Sure Wales are playing Australia so the Scarlets will be badly weakened, however they did beat Munster away last week with the team I assume they'll have out on Sunday so there are no guarentees.

That was a pretty lucky win though in fairness. They weren't the dominant team at all.

thecowboy83

Rory and Simon Best on Ear to the Ground at 830 on RTE 1 tonight

bilston

Team to play the Scarlets on Sunday

15 Peter Nelson
14 Andrew Trimble
13 Darren Cave
12 Luke Marshall
11 Craig Gilroy
10 Paddy Jackson
9 Paul Marshall
1 Callum Black
2 Rob Herring
3 John Afoa
4 Johann Muller
5 Neil McComb
6 Iain Henderson
7 Robbie Diack
8 Roger Wilson

CIARAN_BOYLE

bilston wrote: »

Team to play the Scarlets on Sunday

15 Peter Nelson
14 Andrew Trimble
13 Darren Cave
12 Luke Marshall
11 Craig Gilroy
10 Paddy Jackson
9 Paul Marshall
1 Callum Black
2 Rob Herring
3 John Afoa
4 Johann Muller
5 Neil McComb
6 Iain Henderson
7 Robbie Diack
8 Roger Wilson

and the bench
Replacements (16-23): R Best, T Court, R Lutton, D Tuohy, M McComish, M Heaney, N O'Connor, T Bowe.


Nice to see Muller and Tuohy return to the 23

Diack at 7 is going to be different. I don't think he has played there before.

Hopefully Marshall and Cave can have a good game and continue to build a partnership

thomond2006

Could Henderson, Williams and Wilson play in the same backrow?

bilston

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

and the bench
Replacements (16-23): R Best, T Court, R Lutton, D Tuohy, M McComish, M Heaney, N O'Connor, T Bowe.


Nice to see Muller and Tuohy return to the 23

Diack at 7 is going to be different. I don't think he has played there before.

Hopefully Marshall and Cave can have a good game and continue to build a partnership

That's both Ulster and Leinster with unusual selections at 7 this weekend. I think that with Henry rested and Doyle injured the only other O/S we have us Birch and I get the feeling Anscombe isn't a huge fan as I'm pretty sure he's fit again after injury.

I like the backs especially when you think Tommy is on the bench and Ruan and Jared aren't even in the 23! Nelson is so full of running but I worry a bit about him at the back. I still maintain he's a 13 but the pros think differently an who am I to question them as they haven't got much wrong this season.

bilston

Just to say that that entire backline came through (or in Nelson's case is still coming through) the Ulster Academy. Great to see. I hope Hugh Farrelly is reading from somewhere in rugby journo Heaven...!

irishbucsfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

Could Henderson, Williams and Wilson play in the same backrow?

Maybe against Malahide u13s!

Where's Big Nick?

.ak

Is Payne being rested?

bilston

Dexter Enough Sweeper wrote: »

Where's Big Nick?

Think he still has sore ribs

bilston

.ak wrote: »

Is Payne being rested?

Yep. Off the top of my head he has played in every game this season

the_doctor199

Deleted User wrote: »

Where's Big Nick?

Henry, Williams, Pienaar, Wallace and Payne all being rested for next week.

Sinbad_NI

We have the team to win, especially with Wales playing this WE.... but a performance anything like the last 2 weeks will be a loss for us.

ssaye

http://www.irishrugby.ie/provincial/news/27879.php

Cave Agrees New Two-Year Deal

QwertyIII

Forwards (16) Rob Herring, Rory Best, Nigel Brady, Ricky Lutton, Callum Black, Tom Court, John Afoa, Neil McComb, Johann Muller, Dan Tuohy, Iain Henderson, Robbie Diack, Chris Henry, Mike McComish, Roger Wilson, Nick Williams.

Backs (11) Ruan Pienaar, Paul Marshall, Paddy Jackson, Paddy Wallace, Luke Marshall, Darren Cave, Michael Allen, Tommy Bowe, Andrew Trimble, Craig Gilroy, Jared Payne.

Squad announced, will be good to see most of the internationals back.

Afoa, best, court
Muller, tuohy
Henry, Henderson, have been enjoying watching roger the last few games but guessing big nick as he was rested last week.

Ruan, pj,
Gilroy, Wallace, cave, bowe & the Payne.

Probably won't happen, but what about bowe at fb again, Payne stays at centre with Wallace, with Gilroy & Trimble on the wings. Leaves little options of the bench tho.

What yous think?

Regardless of the team, looking forward to the double header, biggest test so far this season.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Afoa Best Court
Muller Tuohy
Henderson Wilson Henry,
Pienaar Jackson
Wallace Cave
Gilroy Payne Bowe

Herring Black Fitzpatrick Williams Diack Marshall Marshall Trimble

Taht would be my team Gilroy edges Trimble by an inch, I'm not a fan of McComb so with Stevenson's injury Henderson gets to be the lock cover, and Williams is available as an impact sub.

Glass Prison 1214

Is it just me or does Ulsters squad lack option at openside flanker? with the possibility of Henry being involved with Ireland this year, meaning he might be unavailable quite a bit. You only have one other out and out 7 in Sean Doyle and he's injured at the moment.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »

Is it just me or does Ulsters squad lack option at openside flanker? with the possibility of Henry being involved with Ireland this year, meaning he might be unavailable quite a bit. You only have one other out and out 7 in Sean Doyle and he's injured at the moment.

There is Ali Birch too but he doesn't seem to be in favour with Anscombe

Fireball07

Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »

Is it just me or does Ulsters squad lack option at openside flanker? with the possibility of Henry being involved with Ireland this year, meaning he might be unavailable quite a bit. You only have one other out and out 7 in Sean Doyle and he's injured at the moment.

Hasn't Diack been playing there?

Wouldn't be their strongest position for depth, Faloon was a useful player to have around.

Glass Prison 1214

Fireball07 wrote: »

Hasn't Diack been playing there?

Wouldn't be their strongest position for depth, Faloon was a useful player to have around.

He's a decent 6/8 but I wouldn't really see him as an openside. Ulster could do with another natural 7.

Diack has been the "Utility Pack member" this season and has revelled in it!

irishbucsfan

Conor Joyce might end up a 7. A shame Ali Birch hasn't stepped up, I thought he would.

Stanza2

Always thought of Conor Joyce as more of a 6, but it is not a big transition.

bilston

QwertyIII wrote: »

Squad announced, will be good to see most of the internationals back.

Afoa, best, court
Muller, tuohy
Henry, Henderson, have been enjoying watching roger the last few games but guessing big nick as he was rested last week.

Ruan, pj,
Gilroy, Wallace, cave, bowe & the Payne.

Probably won't happen, but what about bowe at fb again, Payne stays at centre with Wallace, with Gilroy & Trimble on the wings. Leaves little options of the bench tho.

What yous think?

Regardless of the team, looking forward to the double header, biggest test so far this season.

Apparently Kidney wants Bowe at 15 and Trimble and Gilroy on the wings with Payne at 13.

That doesn't suit Ulster at the minute though.

With this being the away leg I imagine Anscombe will go with experience so the team will IMO be...

15 Payne, 14 Bowe, 13 Cave, 12 Wallace, 11 Trimble, 10 Jackson, 9 Pienaar

1 Court, 2 Best, 3 Afoa, 4 Muller (c), 5 Tuohy, 6 Henderson, 7 Henry, 8 Wilson

Black, Diack, Williams, Marshall, Marshall and Gilroy amongst the replacements.

I could see Gilroy starting next week in the Ravers leg of the double header.

**** off Declan.

Cave may not be in your plans, but he'll be in Anscombe and your replacement's!

That is a TremenJous bench Ulster have.

jacothelad

Deleted User wrote: »

**** off Declan.

Cave may not be in your plans, but he'll be in Anscombe and your replacement's!

That is a TremenJous bench Ulster have.

I don't see why Kidney would want Payne at 13 ahead of a guy who can actually play for Ireland now as opposed to maybe 18 months away when hopefully Kidney will be long gone. Also why would Kidney want Bowe at 15 when he has Zebo there if needed, Earls, Noddy, Hurley, Big Agnes, the Munster Tea lady, the fat bird who howls before the games at Thomond and then Dave Kearney. Also Big Bro Kearney will be back soon.