Ulster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

sock puppet

It'd have to be Bath if anything surely? Sale are losing their best players and seem to be heading towards relegation territory.

thomond2006

Bath are looking for a "world class" 10 to replace Butch James. Carter was rumoured but he's on his way to Racing apparently.

I am pie

Have heard talk of Jake White being keen to take him to the Brumbies, hoping he stays. Would be a massive blow to loose him so soon.

David900

thomond2006 wrote: »

Bath are looking for a "world class" 10 to replace Butch James. Carter was rumoured but he's on his way to Racing apparently.

The Carter rumours seem like a bit of a stunt tbh, according to the wages he would be on, he'd take up a quarter of a teams wage bill in the premiership. Can't see Pienaar going there either to play 10 since he stipulated to Ulster he wanted to play 9, but I'm sure money would be a factor to anyone.

I am pie wrote: »

Have heard talk of Jake White being keen to take him to the Brumbies, hoping he stays. Would be a massive blow to loose him so soon.

I've heard that too, not sure how attractive a move to Australia for a SA player would be with the money and everything, I think the money is a lot better in SA.

Did anyone see this article of Ulster denying McIlroy is not the backer of the club? I'd be surprised if they could get anyone to pump money in given the structure of ownership with the IRFU. Someone would be efficiently throwing money away. The article says Ulster might now be operating on a higher budget than the other provinces which would be strange given that Munster and Leinster and definitely the highest earners.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ulster-deny-mcilroy-is-bankrolling-provincersquos-big-earners-2630281.html

CIARAN_BOYLE

David900 wrote: »

Did anyone see this article of Ulster denying McIlroy is not the backer of the club? I'd be surprised if they could get anyone to pump money in given the structure of ownership with the IRFU. Someone would be efficiently throwing money away. The article says Ulster might now be operating on a higher budget than the other provinces which would be strange given that Munster and Leinster and definitely the highest earners.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ulster-deny-mcilroy-is-bankrolling-provincersquos-big-earners-2630281.html

Ulster are definitely not spending more than Leinster or Munster. They have a much smaller squad (about 12 less in the senior squad than Munster I believe).

That said I wouldn't be surprised if they were spending close to what Leinster and Munster are spending. They do have a few players on big salaries.

In the IRFU's last annual report Munster was marked down as having paid around 3M in the year before in loan repayments on Thomond Park's expansion.

Leinster also have problems in terms of money, the RDS fleeces them when it comes to rent and RDS gets all money from drinks served at the stadium.

Ulster Rugby earn a large amount selling drinks in Ravenhill at matches

Ulster just seem to have the business end of things really well worked out, means they can afford these guys.

David900

I know the following statement is completely useless on the internet but a guy I know close to the game told me they were getting outside money. Matt Williams also said on the breakdown that when he was there they had no money sitting around so its hard to see how they could just increase their wages by 1-1.5 million in two seasons, doesn't really make sense from a business point of view given there has been no apparent increase in turnover over the same time.

CatFromHue

werent there rumours that ulster were in financial difficulties towards the starts of last season?

jacothelad

CatFromHue wrote: »

werent there rumours that ulster were in financial difficulties towards the starts of last season?

No. Ulster stay within budget. The previous CEO was too unimaginitive and kept everything on a very tight rein but Ulster were owed about £100,000 from one organisation. Think they got it o.k. They new CEO is a far better operator who has increased the revenue stream hugely. Massive sponsorship deals, events at Ravenhill etc. and unlike Leinster, who pay a lot of rent or Munster, who owe the IRFU millions, Ulster have no ground costs above running the place and have £15,000,000 in the bank for new stands. The ERC run and now the semi-final game at RDS will fill the 'notional' coffers at the IRFU and more than recoup the outlay for Pienaar and Muller. Most of Wannenberg's salary was very kindly paid for by Cardiff Blues.:D

We are still some way behind Leinster and Munster in the playing side though.

jacothelad

jacothelad wrote: »

No. Ulster stay within budget. The previous CEO was too unimaginitive and kept everything on a very tight rein but Ulster were owed about £100,000 from one organisation. Think they got it o.k. They new CEO is a far better operator who has increased the revenue stream hugely. Massive sponsorship deals, events at Ravenhill etc. and unlike Leinster, who pay a lot of rent or Munster, who owe the IRFU millions, Ulster have no ground costs above running the place and have £15,000,000 in the bank for new stands. The ERC run and now the semi-final game at RDS will fill the 'notional' coffers at the IRFU and more than recoup the outlay for Pienaar and Muller. Most of Wannenberg's salary was very kindly paid for by Cardiff Blues.:D

We are still some way behind Leinster and Munster in the playing side though.

You must be getting sick of coming on here and repeating these answers. As has become a recurring trend, you are right, and the rumour mill is simply idle and incorrect gossip.

I've no idea why people don't trust the goings on at Ulster tbh other than perhaps outright jealousy. It's very believable that the smallest squad of the four provinces (Ulster's) can afford to pay better salaries than the largest squad (Munster's). [ X/35 > X/45]

Seems Ulster's ability to run themselves a tight ship counts against them with the general public, it's somewhat bizarre.

overshoot

jacothelad wrote: »

Most of Wannenberg's salary was very kindly paid for by Cardiff Blues.:D

gotta love that... especially since hes played a blinder and probably been far better than Xavier Rush would have been

Digifriendly

overshoot wrote: »

gotta love that... especially since hes played a blinder and probably been far better than Xavier Rush would have been

From what I've seen of the said Rush his game has declined from what it once was. Wonder does he now regret his turnabout last season?

TheHighRoad

The bitterness coming from a section of Irish rugby fans towards Ulster is really pathetic. I say fair play to them but for a certain section of fans there always has to be a conspiracy when they're not on top, "oh the IRFU is giving them extra money thats why" or "they have a mysterious wealthy backer" but never "they have invested in the academy and have exercised some great financing". Well done Ulster I say.

David900

TheHighRoad wrote: »

The bitterness coming from a section of Irish rugby fans towards Ulster is really pathetic. I say fair play to them but for a certain section of fans there always has to be a conspiracy when they're not on top, "oh the IRFU is giving them extra money thats why" or "they have a mysterious wealthy backer" but never "they have invested in the academy and have exercised some great financing". Well done Ulster I say.

I guess this post is directed at me which I find quite offensive really. Asking where they are getting their money from and being bitter over the success this might bring are completely different things. I can't see the bitterness in my post tbf. Ulster doing good is great for Irish rugby and is probably necessary to bring about a truly competitive national team. I'm actually just interested in the situation as it makes no sense from a business point of view. Ulster have upped their wages by at least 1.5 m pounds over two seasons without increasing their fundamental revenue stream of ticket sales. I'll take jaco's explanation but there is no concrete proof for it either. Its impossible to tell from the accounts of the IRFU as they aren't broken down into the finances for the provinces.

profitius

Ulster simply got rid of the deadwood in their squad and brought in higher quality into the first team. I wish Munster would do the same.

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

In the IRFU's last annual report Munster was marked down as having paid around 3M in the year before in loan repayments on Thomond Park's expansion.

Do you know how much is to be payed back still?

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote:

Leinster also have problems in terms of money, the RDS fleeces them when it comes to rent and RDS gets all money from drinks served at the stadium.

Thats one disadvantage of being based in South Dublin. They're not many options in terms of building their own stadium.

TheHighRoad wrote: »

The bitterness coming from a section of Irish rugby fans towards Ulster is really pathetic. I say fair play to them but for a certain section of fans there always has to be a conspiracy when they're not on top, "oh the IRFU is giving them extra money thats why" or "they have a mysterious wealthy backer" but never "they have invested in the academy and have exercised some great financing". Well done Ulster I say.

I don't think its anything to do with bitterness. If a neighbour suddenly went on a spending spree everyone would be wondering where the money is coming from. People are always curious about teams financial situation.

CIARAN_BOYLE

David900 wrote: »

I guess this post is directed at me which I find quite offensive really. Asking where they are getting their money from and being bitter over the success this might bring are completely different things. I can't see the bitterness in my post tbf. Ulster doing good is great for Irish rugby and is probably necessary to bring about a truly competitive national team. I'm actually just interested in the situation as it makes no sense from a business point of view. Ulster have upped their wages by at least 1.5 m pounds over two seasons without increasing their fundamental revenue stream of ticket sales. I'll take jaco's explanation but there is no concrete proof for it either. Its impossible to tell from the accounts of the IRFU as they aren't broken down into the finances for the provinces.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/my_club/ulster/9248537.stm
heard rumours that this was 7 figures a season.

Ulster may have been saving money for stadium expansion in recent seasons but found out last season that the government would splash for them and are spending savings.

I'm pretty sure Ulster cut a lot of fringe squad members over the last few seasons so maybe their wages are going towards the foreign signings.

David900

profitius wrote: »

Do you know how much is to be payed back still?

From the last accounts available it says they gave them €9m and they had paid back €5.7m in one section. In another section it says they are due to pay back close to €15 still. So I'm not sure, you'd need to go through it in more detail to dig down into it. Says all loans to clubs are charged interest at 1%p.a.

TheHighRoad

David900 wrote: »

I guess this post is directed at me which I find quite offensive really. Asking where they are getting their money from and being bitter over the success this might bring are completely different things. I can't see the bitterness in my post tbf. Ulster doing good is great for Irish rugby and is probably necessary to bring about a truly competitive national team. I'm actually just interested in the situation as it makes no sense from a business point of view. Ulster have upped their wages by at least 1.5 m pounds over two seasons without increasing their fundamental revenue stream of ticket sales. I'll take jaco's explanation but there is no concrete proof for it either. Its impossible to tell from the accounts of the IRFU as they aren't broken down into the finances for the provinces.

It wasn't directed at you. It was directed at the undercurrent of feeling amongst certain fans that Ulster are getting unfair advantages.

Tomtom364

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/my_club/ulster/9248537.stm
heard rumours that this was 7 figures a season.

Ulster may have been saving money for stadium expansion in recent seasons but found out last season that the government would splash for them and are spending savings.

I'm pretty sure Ulster cut a lot of fringe squad members over the last few seasons so maybe their wages are going towards the foreign signings.

well the report says it could be be biggest irish club deal.
that means they topped out an Adidas sponsership which would be worth a heafty ammount of yo-yos.

profitius

David900 wrote: »

From the last accounts available it says they gave them €9m and they had paid back €5.7m in one section. In another section it says they are due to pay back close to €15 still. So I'm not sure, you'd need to go through it in more detail to dig down into it. Says all loans to clubs are charged interest at 1%p.a.

I heard a few years ago that it was almost paid off or at least well on the way to being paid off.

David900

profitius wrote: »

I heard a few years ago that it was almost paid off or at least well on the way to being paid off.

Well I didn't look too closely at it but the first section I said was in writing so I guess you can take that as true. Not sure when their accounts run from but assuming they coincide with the rugby season the accounts would be for last year so Munster probably would have paid off a good bit of the €3.3m owed in this season.

jacothelad

A few months ago one of the 'sumarisers' on RTE, -Donal Lenihan - I think, stated that Munster only owed 9,000,000 of the original amount. Pretty good going in the current climate. The more home games they have with bumper crowds the faster that will be reduced.

jacothelad

Tuohy has a torn hamstring. i think that is his already slim RWC chance gone. It's a shame he can't be in the mix for selection as he was really beginning to play well, doing a huge amount of the grunt work while still being very good as a bal;l carrier in the loose. His speed is quite remarkable for a man that size. I think all round he is a substantially better player than Don. Ryan.

sock puppet

David900 wrote: »

I guess this post is directed at me which I find quite offensive really. Asking where they are getting their money from and being bitter over the success this might bring are completely different things. I can't see the bitterness in my post tbf. Ulster doing good is great for Irish rugby and is probably necessary to bring about a truly competitive national team. I'm actually just interested in the situation as it makes no sense from a business point of view. Ulster have upped their wages by at least 1.5 m pounds over two seasons without increasing their fundamental revenue stream of ticket sales. I'll take jaco's explanation but there is no concrete proof for it either. Its impossible to tell from the accounts of the IRFU as they aren't broken down into the finances for the provinces.

One and a half million extra seems over the top. With players leaving that'd mean an average salary of £300,000 to £400,000 for Pienaar, Wanenburg, Muller, Afoa and Payne. No way any of them bar possibly Pienaar are worth anything close to that.

David900

I was adding in the two lads coming in from NZ next year in that too, its been said in the papers they'll be on 400 each and its been widely reported that Pienaar is on 350. If them figures are correct (which I'm obviosuly not sure they are) then it'll probably something similar to that. I wouldn't say Botha is on that kind of money at the moment.

sock puppet

David900 wrote: »

I was adding in the two lads coming in from NZ next year in that too, its been said in the papers they'll be on 400 each and its been widely reported that Pienaar is on 350. If them figures are correct (which I'm obviosuly not sure they are) then it'll probably something similar to that. I wouldn't say Botha is on that kind of money at the moment.

I already included them. Afoa and Payne are hardly world beaters. Afoa doesn't even begin to measure up to the top props and Payne has about 30 Super Rugby caps. I very much doubt that either of them could command anything close to €400,000.

jacothelad

jacothelad wrote: »

Tuohy has a torn hamstring. i think that is his already slim RWC chance gone. It's a shame he can't be in the mix for selection as he was really beginning to play well, doing a huge amount of the grunt work while still being very good as a bal;l carrier in the loose. His speed is quite remarkable for a man that size. I think all round he is a substantially better player than Don. Ryan.

devastating. One of the brightest players ignored by Kidney for the last 2/3 seasons. Should've got a game in the AIs when he was better than anyone around him for the role, could've been a big chance for him.

Really gutted for him.

CIARAN_BOYLE

David900 wrote: »

I was adding in the two lads coming in from NZ next year in that too, its been said in the papers they'll be on 400 each and its been widely reported that Pienaar is on 350. If them figures are correct (which I'm obviosuly not sure they are) then it'll probably something similar to that. I wouldn't say Botha is on that kind of money at the moment.

The claim of 400,000 first appeared when the NZRU complained about how much they were being paid and how they couldn't compete with european and irish salaries.

The only claim of 400,000 I would believe is NZ dollars which would be around 190,000 sterling which seems much more reasonable to me.

CatFromHue

Deleted User wrote: »

devastating. One of the brightest players ignored by Kidney for the last 2/3 seasons. Should've got a game in the AIs when he was better than anyone around him for the role, could've been a big chance for him.

Really gutted for him.

i could be wrong but i thought he was injured for the AI's this season.

he did go on tour to nz and oz at the end of last season though. he also played a few games for ireland A last season too.

CatFromHue

CatFromHue wrote: »

i could be wrong but i thought he was injured for the AI's this season.

he did go on tour to nz and oz at the end of last season though. he also played a few games for ireland A last season too.

nope, was completely selectable for the AIs, was injured at start of 6N though, and hasn't completely gotten back into his pre christmas form.

CatFromHue

Deleted User wrote: »

nope, was completely selectable for the AIs, was injured at start of 6N though, and hasn't completely gotten back into his pre christmas form.

was he getting his game for ulster at the time then?

just looking at his stats on the ulster webiste and he has only one full game played in sep and oct

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/rugby/ulster_first_team.php?player=19897&includeref=dynamic

hmm, maybe you're right so, and my consternation and outrage at his non-involvement was a bit OTT.

Seemed to hit the ground running seriously hard in November though.

CatFromHue

Deleted User wrote: »

hmm, maybe you're right so, and my consternation and outrage at his non-involvement was a bit OTT.

Seemed to hit the ground running seriously hard in November though.

you mean like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YoHeijYIig

none of our other second rows can really do that. poc has his moments but tuohy does offer something else than his competition.

i thought he showed his lack of experience in the big matches against northampton though. he lost his composure when northampton upped it in the second half.

Agreed, I would compare him to Leamy in mindset almost.

Leamy is a great 6 when he's in the right mood, but when he's cast forward at 8 or handed the captaincy role, he seems to suffer for it. Possibly because he has to check himself a bit more than usual, and as a result loses some of his edge.

I think that Tuohy is similar in terms of dependency, I don't think he deals well with being a "senior member" of a squad that he's not really a senior member of. Players look to him when the team is down, and sometimes he really pulls it out of the bag, and other times (a la Heaslip vs NZ) it all gets a bit too much and he seems to react poorly to the pressure.

I feel that having him as part of an Ireland squad where he'd be a "new entity" almost, and asked to do his level best and not concentrate on leading a pack or a team, that he could really assert the physicality that he undoubtedly brings to the game. Some people are leaders, players like BOD will always be there to score the vital try, players like Nacewa will always be there to make the vital tackle, players like Pienaar will always make that kick. But you rarely have players from 1-15 like that, and I think that taking responsibility away from players like Leamy and Tuohy can be extremely beneficial to them.

ambid

CatFromHue wrote: »

you mean like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YoHeijYIig
...

Urgh... bad memories of playing in school and getting trampled on by the big blokes come flooding back ...

CatFromHue

it was an awful tackle technique wise so the tackler made it easy for tuohy to make the big play in my opinion.

tuohy had the strength to knock him out of the way though.

the 3 main things to remember about tackling are technique, technique, and technique!

dreamer_ire

Anyone else hearing the rumour that Pienaar may be leaving at the end of the season?

thomond2006

dreamer_ire wrote: »

Anyone else hearing the rumour that Pienaar may be leaving at the end of the season?

He's not leaving. The Stormers have simply requested they take him on a loan deal before the World Cup.

overshoot

thomond2006 wrote: »

He's not leaving. The Stormers have simply requested they take him on a loan deal before the World Cup.

sounds like the dan carter clause, if he is based here right before the tournament its ok! although in fairness SA arent as fussy at picking foreign based players

jacothelad

David Humphreys has confirmed that Jeremy Davidson is leaving Ulster. He is the forwards coach. It looks scarily like McLaughlin taking on that responsibility. As he has only signed a one year deal, I wonder what machinations with regards to coaching are at play. Perhaps we are going to see an addition to our coaching staff after the World Cup. EddieO...step forward.:eek:...or maybe Muller doing a bit.

jacothelad

Muller signs 1 Year Contract Extension

"Ulster Rugby today announced that second row forward Johann Muller has signed a one year contract extension...
Share The South African arrived in Belfast last summer from the Natal Sharks on a two year deal and his contract extension means that he will play his rugby for Ulster until June 2013.

Muller captained the Ulster team on numerous occasions this season while Rory Best was absent through injury or international duty. He has clocked up an impressive 2027 minutes of the pitch for Ulster during the 2010/11 season, starting all but four of Ulster’s competitive games this season, and he has become a firm favourite with the fans at Ravenhill.

Winner of the Heineken Ulster Rugby Personality of the Season at last week’s gala awards ceremony, he was lauded for the contribution he has made to the club both on and off the pitch. He has been credited with inspiring much of the change at Ulster this season, with the team reaching the Heineken Cup quarter final stages for the first time since 1999, as well as the Magners League play offs.

On signing the extension Johann said:

‘I’m delighted to extend my contract with Ulster Rugby by another year. I’ve really enjoyed my first season with Ulster, not only in terms of rugby but also personally. The people of Northern Ireland have been great to me and my family so staying an extra year wasn’t a decision we had to think about for long.

‘It was a successful season for us and we are taking steps in the right direction, but the players and the coaching staff need to keep working hard for next season. Teams are judged on silverware and we have nothing to show for our season. We are determined to win something for the trophy cabinet at Ravenhill next season and to do that we must keep improving.

‘I’ve been in the fantastic position of having a leadership role within the squad. I hope I can keep trying to help the younger players and they keep improving. The more games they play and the more experience they get will be of benefit to themselves and Ulster. If, in a couple of years I leave Ulster and have managed to help a few players develop, I will be delighted with that.’"
:cool::cool:

CIARAN_BOYLE

Great news, brilliant to have him commit to another year

jacothelad

Jeremy Davidson is off to France as head coach of Aurillac in Div 2. jeremy was at castres as a player and a coach and I think studied French at university so he has a strong affection for the place. Aurillac is a very nice place - which doesn't hurt one bit. Good luck Jeremy.

CIARAN_BOYLE

jacothelad wrote: »

Jeremy Davidson is off to France as head coach of Aurillac in Div 2. jeremy was at castres as a player and a coach and I think studied French at university so he has a strong affection for the place. Aurillac is a very nice place - which doesn't hurt one bit. Good luck Jeremy.

I've heard rumours that McGlock is taking over the forwards coaching in addition to being the head coach (may be too much work) with Muller helping out, do you know if that is true? or is there going to be one recruited in

CatFromHue

jacothelad wrote: »

Jeremy Davidson is off to France as head coach of Aurillac in Div 2. jeremy was at castres as a player and a coach and I think studied French at university so he has a strong affection for the place. Aurillac is a very nice place - which doesn't hurt one bit. Good luck Jeremy.

ah right, that makes more sense now.

i was surprised to hear he was leaving ulster but if he has a head coach job lined up best of luck to him.

was he head coach at castres? or is this his first time as one?

it will be interesting to see how mccall will do at saracens next year. its my understanding that venter is still knocking about the place.

I am pie

Best of luck Jeremy.

Anyone else feel that a marquee signing at number 10 is what we need to help us continue to progress ? I like iHump but he's a bit erratic and can be a liability in defence. His flair can sometimes be undone by questionable decision making.

Very glad to see Gerry Thornley put the stupid rumours to bed around how Ulster are funded in the Irish Times today in this article. Read down towards the bottom.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0517/1224297117204.html

jacothelad

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I've heard rumours that McGlock is taking over the forwards coaching in addition to being the head coach (may be too much work) with Muller helping out, do you know if that is true? or is there going to be one recruited in

CatFromHue wrote: »

ah right, that makes more sense now.

i was surprised to hear he was leaving ulster but if he has a head coach job lined up best of luck to him.

was he head coach at castres? or is this his first time as one?

it will be interesting to see how mccall will do at saracens next year. its my understanding that venter is still knocking about the place.

I think it's likely that Matt Sexton, currently with NZ U 20s will fill the forwards coach role vacated by Buzz. Jeremy was a forwards coach at Castres.

sock puppet

I am pie wrote: »

Best of luck Jeremy.

Anyone else feel that a marquee signing at number 10 is what we need to help us continue to progress ? I like iHump but he's a bit erratic and can be a liability in defence. His flair can sometimes be undone by questionable decision making.

Very glad to see Gerry Thornley put the stupid rumours to bed around how Ulster are funded in the Irish Times today in this article. Read down towards the bottom.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0517/1224297117204.html

Humphreys isn't a bad 10. Teams have won Heineken Cups and Premierships with worse. If Ulster have another NIQ spot (do they?) then some decent cover at hooker or lock or an openside flanker might be a better use of resources.

danthefan

sock puppet wrote: »

Humphreys isn't a bad 10. Teams have won Heineken Cups and Premierships with worse. If Ulster have another NIQ spot (do they?) then some decent cover at hooker or lock or an openside flanker might be a better use of resources.

Who?

sock puppet

danthefan wrote: »

Who?

Hmm might have been a bit much. Thinking mainly of Goode and Skrela. Not a lot better would probably be a better description.