Ulster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

thomond2006

Adam D'Arcy has joined Bristol.

Swan Curry

thomond2006 wrote: »

Adam D'Arcy has joined Bristol.

Was he not going to Australia or something?

danthefan

Law 10.4 (a) says:

Punching or striking. A player must not strike an opponent with the fist or arm, including the elbow, shoulder, head or knee(s).

I can't find anything about hand-offs other than a single line in Law 7 which basically says "a player may hand off an opponent". I can't see anything about it being illegal to hand someone off to the face.

I would say what Touhy did definitely falls under 10.4 (a). If it was in the HEC and a serious injury resulted I would say the citing commissioner would be all over it.

Edit - there's a line under the Definitions section of the laws which states:

Hand-off: An action taken by a ball carrier to fend off an opponent by using the palm of the hand.

Imo this reinforces that what Touhy did was illegal.


But anyway, he's not going to be cited, but I reckon he'd want to be careful in future.

.ak

There was an interesting article on PA about that English player losing an eye to a fend. Bit of a freak accident, but if you're not allowed place your hand near someone's eyes in a ruck, even if not intentional, the same should count for fends when your hand can be travelling into somebody's facial area with a far greater force. At the end of the day you should be fending a player off in the chest area anyway.

danthefan

.ak wrote: »

There was an interesting article on PA about that English player losing an eye to a fend. Bit of a freak accident, but if you're not allowed place your hand near someone's eyes in a ruck, even if not intentional, the same should count for fends when your hand can be travelling into somebody's facial area with a far greater force. At the end of the day you should be fending a player off in the chest area anyway.

I don't think anyone would or should be sanctioned for completely accidental (that bit is very important!) contact with the eye in a ruck. There could be occasions where it's not in your control at all.

A season or two back Mike Ross got his eye damaged in a game by I think his own player. Google "Mike Ross eye" and you can see the state his eye was in.

.ak

danthefan wrote: »

I don't think anyone would or should be sanctioned for completely accidental (that bit is very important!) contact with the eye in a ruck. There could be occasions where it's not in your control at all.

A season or two back Kevin McLaughlin damaged Mike Ross' eye in training, obviously a complete accident. It can happen.

Yeah, I often agree, but the law is there for a reason - because it's so easy to make something look accidental. Was Healy's eye gouge by the italian in the WC intentional or not? I don't know. Was it right he got cited? Absolutely, because there's no way to prove intent or not.

danthefan

.ak wrote: »

Yeah, I often agree, but the law is there for a reason - because it's so easy to make something look accidental. Was Healy's eye gouge by the italian in the WC intentional or not? I don't know. Was it right he got cited? Absolutely, because there's no way to prove intent or not.

Well, actually, there's no law that covers "gouging" or contact with the eye. Citing is done under acts contrary to good sportsmanship or somesuch.

.ak

danthefan wrote: »

Well, actually, there's no law that covers "gouging" or contact with the eye. Citing is done under acts contrary to good sportsmanship or somesuch.

Sorry, you're right yeah, but you get what I mean - the precedent is already there.

awec

Ulster squad:

Forwards: Niall Annett, Tom Court, Callum Black, Ricky Lutton, Robbie Diack, Declan Fitzpatrick, Johann Muller (captain), Dan Tuohy, Chris Henry, Roger Wilson, Bronson Ross, Lewis Stevenson, Sean Doyle, Rob Herring.

Backs: Jared Payne, Luke Marshall, Paddy Jackson, David McIlwaine, James McKinney, Paul Marshall, Darren Cave, Chris Farrell, Andrew Trimble, Ian Porter, Michael Heaney.l

Fireball07

Team likely to start?

Something like:

Black, Herring, Fitzpatrick, Stevenson, Muller, Diack, Henry, Wilson
Marshall, McKinney, McIlwaine, Farrell, Cave, Trimble, Payne

??

damianmcr

Id go for

Court Herring Fitzpatrick Muller Tuohy Diack Henry Wilson
Marshall Jackson McIlwaine Farrell Marshall Trimble Payne

bilston

Fireball07 wrote: »

Team likely to start?

Something like:

Black, Herring, Fitzpatrick, Stevenson, Muller, Diack, Henry, Wilson
Marshall, McKinney, McIlwaine, Farrell, Cave, Trimble, Payne

??

I'd say Jackson and L.Marshall will be starting in the backs.

former legend

Ulster XV and replacements to face Newport Gwent Dragons, RaboDirect PRO12, Rodney Parade, Friday 6th September (kick off 19:15);

J Payne, A Trimble, L Marshall, C Farrell, D McIlwaine, P Jackson, P Marshall;

C Black, R Herring, R Lutton, J Muller (Captain), D Tuohy, R Diack, C Henry, R Wilson;

Replacements (16-23): N Annett, T Court, D Fitzpatrick, L Stevenson, S Doyle, I Porter, J McKinney, D Cave.

Big call at 13?

.ak

former legend wrote: »

Ulster XV and replacements to face Newport Gwent Dragons, RaboDirect PRO12, Rodney Parade, Friday 6th September (kick off 19:15);

J Payne, A Trimble, L Marshall, C Farrell, D McIlwaine, P Jackson, P Marshall;

C Black, R Herring, R Lutton, J Muller (Captain), D Tuohy, R Diack, C Henry, R Wilson;

Replacements (16-23): N Annett, T Court, D Fitzpatrick, L Stevenson, S Doyle, I Porter, J McKinney, D Cave.

Big call at 13?

Why a big call? Marshall has looked sharp in preseason, Cave might need a bit of time management also.

Good looking team all over tho.

thomond2006

So the post-NOC era at Ulster. Ulster Rugby diehards like Jacothelad will be crying into their beer tonight.

bilston

thomond2006 wrote: »

So the post-NOC era at Ulster. Ulster Rugby diehards like Jacothelad will be crying into their beer tonight.

I haven't seen Ulster play yet this season but let's just say the reports surrounding McKinney are a bit NOCesque! Jaco may have his time yet!

bilston

.ak wrote: »

Why a big call? Marshall has looked sharp in preseason, Cave might need a bit of time management also.

Good looking team all over tho.

It will be interesting to see how Marshall and Farrell actually line up. There is a fair bit of debate about this. Personally from what I've seen I think Farrell is more effective at 12 but like most of us I've only seen him play a handful of times. Marshall at 13 is definitely worth a look but my guess is he is better to suited to 12 but then I've only seen him at 13 once, maybe twice.

Mind you between Farrell, Marshall and Olding one of them at least would do well to develop their skills at 13!

I think having the Ginger Prince back at 10 will go a long way to correcting what has been at best a mixed pre season. We need P.Marshall to keep his head and isn't it interesting that Lutton has got the nod over Fitzpatrick. McIlwaine over Allen, Nelson or Scholes surprises me too. I think McIlwaine is a decent FB but have never really rated him on the wing, maybe he has upped his game there in the last two years.

shuffol

Dont think game was originally meant to be televised but will be on the red button on bbc. Looking forward to seeing that midfield outside of Jackson.

Fireball07

Porter over Heaney on the bench?

Digifriendly

Fireball07 wrote: »

Porter over Heaney on the bench?

Ulster improved in second half against Leinster when Porter came on.

bilston

Digifriendly wrote: »

Ulster improved in second half against Leinster when Porter came on.

Porter has always been a good player. I was a bit mystified as to why he gave it up a year ago.

Fireball07

Heaney is potentially 4th choice SH at Ulster... if he had come to Munster, he could potentially be 2nd choice.

ScissorPaperRock

Is this match being televised this evening?

The Lost Sheep

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

Is this match being televised this evening?

on the red button on BBC and on BBC website

shuffol

Jackson having another mare off the tee.

damianmcr

This match is garbage.

connemara man

Wats the score?

P_1

12-8 dragons

ScissorPaperRock

15-8 to the Dragons, final score.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Jackson must have been pretty dire. Shipped off after 67

Buer

How is this not being talked about more?! Dragons have recruited but they're a poor side. Ulster had a serious team out there tonight. That's a really surprising result. It's the sort of game you'd look at and think guaranteed win and potential BP. 7 Irish international starting along with Payne and Muller.

thomond2006

Very poor, you'd think that Ulster side would win that comfortably. Although it's good for the league if Dragons could improve.

shuffol

Watched a good bit of it, dreadful game, Jackson was terrible off the tee and his kicking out of hand was also poor. Ulsters ball retention was very poor also, they just put in a lazy looking performance all round. Luke Marshall was the best of a bad bunch for me..

awec

Sounds great

thomond2006

They should never have let NOC go, it'll come back to bite Ulster.

Fireball07

Not a great result at all for Ulster, the team out should have been good enough to win.

bilston

I'm too annoyed to even comment. Jackson really does need to sort out his kicking. I'm inclined to think that after tonight we'll see Olding at 10 quite soon.

The only positive is that maybe we've learnt to peak at the end of the season and not the start!

mogwai81

How did Chris Farrell play? Sounds like Jackson could be under pressure from Pienaar/ Olding if his performance levels don't pick up.

[Jackass]

Worryingly for Ulster, that was a fairly strong match day squad for them. Obviously first day jitters aren't the end of the world, but Jackson seems to have as many off days as he does good ones, and it seems when he doesn't fire, that lack of direction from 10 can make Ulster pretty woeful. We've seen it a few times.

Obviously Ulster are a top class side when firing on all cylanders though. It will be interesting to see if they can maintain consistancy this season. Losing it last season cost them.

conf101

thomond2006 wrote: »

They should never have let NOC go, it'll come back to bite Ulster.

Where's he gone to? Didn't know he'd left

[Jackass]

conf101 wrote: »

Where's he gone to? Didn't know he'd left

Could be wrong, but I think he turned down a Clermont offer and opted for Toulon instead.

irishbucsfan

conf101 wrote: »

Where's he gone to? Didn't know he'd left

Jersey I think, or one of those English Division one sides.

danthefan

You'd really have to be concerned about Jackson if his performance was as poor as suggested (I didn't see the game). And he's really killing his chances of benching for Ireland if he can't kick his goals.

Swiwi.

danthefan wrote: »

You'd really have to be concerned about Jackson if his performance was as poor as suggested (I didn't see the game). And he's really killing his chances of benching for Ireland if he can't kick his goals.

I'm prepared to money on Jackson not making the Irish squad. I don't think there's room for sentimentality, and unfortunately his place kicking is a liability. Hopefully he can prove me wrong.

Sinbad_NI

Lineout was a shambles in the first half, was no one knew the calls.

Scrum was good until the front row was changed. Court and Fitzpatrick got pinged several times after conning on.

Handling all round awful.

Paddy's goal kicking awful.

In summary, not an easy watch.

bilston

Swiwi. wrote: »

I'm prepared to money on Jackson not making the Irish squad. I don't think there's room for sentimentality, and unfortunately his place kicking is a liability. Hopefully he can prove me wrong.

I dont know why his goalkicking should be a liability because he can kick very well, he is just so inconsistant.

Still its one game there will hopefully be another 31 Ulster games still to come this season so its probably a bit early to hit the panic button and yes we did have a team good enough to win last night but at the same time we were nowhere near full strength.

One positive though...Ricky Lutton...very encouraged by his scrummaging effort and Irish rugby can never have too many decent TH props!

shuffol

Jacksons usually shown an excellent ability to bounce back from a poor performance, I'd expect a big one next weekend. His lack of consistency off the tee is worrying but he's still very young.

awec

Hopefully this serves as a wake up call. Very poor result - but not worth panicking over yet.

Podge_irl

bilston wrote: »

I dont know why his goalkicking should be a liability because he can kick very well, he is just so inconsistant.

That's why!

I'm all for Ireland having players outside their 10 who can kick their goals, and really think this should be encouraged, but unfortunately until that happens I just would not be confident going into an important game with him - at least not with the other options we have available.

launish116

Ulster struggling with the favorites tag again! Very very rusty! Atleast its not a sprint but serious kick up the arse needed before heineken cup starts!