Cold reading

WildOscar

Package wrote: »

i
the santuary is near Adamstown/badonnell area and has mediums doing demonstrations on sunday nights from 6:30 - 8 ish. some medums are good, some not so good. you dont have to pay anything at all. you may get a message, you may not, but i wouldnt bring a skeptic friend to the service to try prove anything.

how would i know the message was for me?

but i wouldnt bring a skeptic friend to the service to try prove anything.

why not?

Oryx

With all due respect to package, almost everyone has a scar on their knee, its too easy a hit to offer as evidence. Unless you were joshing.

WildOscar

Oryx wrote: »

With all due respect to package, almost everyone has a scar on their knee, its too easy a hit to offer as evidence. Unless you were joshing.

actually a large percentage of people have scar on their left knee. Apparently it is one of a number unexplained statistics* like most people asked to name an odd number between 1 an 50 I think it is will pick on ..... guess.. what number did you think of?

I was not joshing, if you mean joking, and meant no disrespect to package but tryi ng to point out how cold readers go with probabilities and just like the green bike i would suggest you yourself will sooner or later hear of or know of a person with such a scar. If I had been a reader giving a reading and mentioned this and you then met someone you may think.. that is who he meant. there are green bikes and scarred knees all around us they only mean something when linked to something meaningful such as a reading

* according to Jonathon Margoils in a bio of geller

Riamfada

Im sorry but this popped up in another thread and I just had to share it on this forum. Prob dosnt need its own thread and fits in here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB33z6qFJqM

Major Lovechild

Ha ha ha ha ha ha! Nice one.:D

bipedalhumanoid

Package wrote: »

if you dont think the points that i have already made is a REAL arguement the what else can i do.

You could form actual arguments, backed up by sources, instead of making spurious claims.

Package wrote: »

i would have thought that was painfully obvious?

magic trick --> a magician asks someone to pick a card, the person picks the card, looks at it, careful not to show the magician. he then puts it back in the deck and shuffles. at this stage, the magician picks a balloon from a nearby bunch and pops it,, out falls a card, which is the same as what the person had chosen.

medium reading --> a sitter says helo and sits down. the medium begins by passing messages from loved ones who have passed on. some hits, some misses, the sitter either believes or he doesnt.

Magicians have been performing cold reading tricks for as long as there have been magicians. That's the point, and that's why anecdotal evidence is worthless.

Package wrote: »

debunked? by james randi? oh well debunked by the biggest skeptic inn the world,, must be true. has it been debunked by anyone else rather than someone who would not admit to parapsychological happenings even if his own dead grandmother told him to do so.

See what you've done there is called Ad Hominem fallacy. You've attacked the man instead of his argument.

Package wrote: »

if i had a basin of water with a stone in the bottom of it. yet nobody had ever got to the bottom of the basin to find the stone.

the stone has not been proven to exist, neither has it been proven not to exist. it is only when you drain the water and find no stone, it has been proven NOT to exist. alternativly if somebody goes to the bottom of the basin and finds the stone, then it has been proven to exist.

until then, everyone should be in the "maybe the stone exists" catagorie, do you not think? instead of saying, i have seen no stone, therefore it is stupid to think there is a stone at the bottom of the basin.

Is that how you are with everything or just very special things that you reallly really want to be true?

Must be a hard life believing in all the things that can't be disproven 100%, because that's just about everything. You can't disprove the existence of the invisible monster outside your door. It's going to eat you next time you go outside. Better not go out there hey, cos maybe it exists. You can't disprove it.

Package

WildOscar wrote: »

There is essentially no diference

there is a BIG difference. someone can be anyone. someone connected to your fater narrows it down significantly.

WildOscar wrote: »

The 'good medium' would be making a guess

the "good medium" wouldnt be guessing

WildOscar wrote: »

i will say to you though that just like the green bike with one wheel, if you look far enough and/or speak to enough people you will hear of someone who has a scar on the left knee and that will make the guess a hit.

so do you know of someone close to you who has died that is connected to a green bike with one wheel? think hard now! :cool:

WildOscar wrote: »

how would i know the message was for me?
why not?

that just shows how little you know about the subject. the medium works in many ways. some might say, can i talk to you and point at you or say, the man in the green jacket there. or some may describe the person coming through and if you recognies this person, you tell him, they will then go on to talk to you directly and bring through more descriptions and information.


@ Riamfada - i laughed so much at that video, but you bring up a good point. some people can see the future , its called precognition, but that doesnt mean that they can see everything seconds or minutes before it happens. some people see flashes which last for less than 1/2 second, others have dreams which may have one or two hiddent features in. a recent case or two involving a guy called Chris Robinson was very interesting, check him out for more info.

bipedalhumanoid wrote: »

You could form actual arguments, backed up by sources, instead of making spurious claims.

i actually thought i did? just as much as any of you did to disprove ? there are a million books, legibale books on the subject, read any one of them, in the case of the James Randi debunking crap that Bipedal threw up about magician. so basing an arguement on one staunch skeptic is forming a REAL argument? i think not. I ask you this, James Randi famously went after Uri Geller, because he is an easy target, has james ever approached and of todays mediums?

bipedalhumanoid wrote: »

Is that how you are with everything or just very special things that you reallly really want to be true?

Must be a hard life believing in all the things that can't be disproven 100%, because that's just about everything. You can't disprove the existence of the invisible monster outside your door. It's going to eat you next time you go outside. Better not go out there hey, cos maybe it exists. You can't disprove it.

yes, it is the way i am with everything, if there is a chance that something can be true, then i accept it can be true and i accept that some believe and some done, unlike yourself who says if it is not proven then it DOES NOT exist and anyone who believes is a charlatan and a fraud.

i dont think its a hard life having a bit of fate, i would think its a hard life the other way around, having no faith in anything must be a horrible way to live. Obviosly you dont believe in an afterlife or anything. so when your dead your dead huh? you think everyone should live like that? let me remind you, the thought that there might be something better after we leave this life is what a lot of people actually look forward to.

Dave!

Package wrote: »

I ask you this, James Randi famously went after Uri Geller, because he is an easy target, has james ever approached and of todays mediums?

Yes, here is Sylvia Browne accepting his challenge:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JVA0dWyuw4

She never followed through with it. Randi challenged her again, and she said she was going to go for the test, but she "couldn't find" him

Try sending an email, luv

Package

Dave! wrote: »

Yes, here is Sylvia Browne accepting his challenge:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JVA0dWyuw4

She never followed through with it. Randi challenged her again, and she said she was going to go for the test, but she "couldn't find" him

Try sending an email, luv

haha,, like the email joke.. na Sylvia Brown is known as a joke. there are only a few TV personality type mediums who i would rate.

Tony Stockwell
Colin Fry
Tj Higgs
Lisa Williams
John Edward
Derek Achorah
James Van Pragh

maybe another couple i cant think of at the mo,, but not much more. there are many more i would highly rate who are not on TV, but ive always wondered why no debunkers aproach these??? strange

ok, getting back to cold reading and random info. have you watched any videos on youtube of any mediums? if you have time, would you like me to send links for you to watch one or two. the hits are a lot more personal than the whole scar on the knee thing

Oryx

Tony Stockwell I like as a person, he seems sincere, his demonstrations were very convincing.

Colin Fry has been outed as fake in the past, as has Derek Acorah, though Ive heard he used to be thought of quite highly before his tv work.

Ive seen John Edward in a show, and he was the worst Ive ever seen, badgering and cold reading the audience.

The others I cant comment on. I think you cant rely on mediums youve only seen on tv, as you are only seeing a cleaned up version of what they can do. I think you have to see someone work up close and personal, to form a full opinion, really.

Package

Oryx wrote: »

Tony Stockwell I like as a person, he seems sincere, his demonstrations were very convincing.

Colin Fry has been outed as fake in the past, as has Derek Acorah, though Ive heard he used to be thought of quite highly before his tv work.

Ive seen John Edward in a show, and he was the worst Ive ever seen, badgering and cold reading the audience.

The others I cant comment on. I think you cant rely on mediums youve only seen on tv, as you are only seeing a cleaned up version of what they can do. I think you have to see someone work up close and personal, to form a full opinion, really.

you make a good point here Oryx. the thing is,, Derek and Colin werent outed as FAKES, they were found out to be faking parts of their show, there is a huge difference. if a great boxer takes a bribe to go down in the second, it doesnt make him any less of a great boxer, it does however, prove him to have faked (thrown) the fight and it reflects hugely on his character. Colin is an amazing medium, as is Derek. Dereks mistake was chasing ratings, and Colin's mistake was to not accepting that things go wrong sometimes.

i honestly feel, the only way to change somebodies mine, actually, sorry, the only way a person can change their mind about anything is if they experience it themselves. all the talking back and forward will never do any good.

Oryx

Package wrote: »

you make a good point here Oryx. the thing is,, Derek and Colin werent outed as FAKES, they were found out to be faking parts of their show, there is a huge difference. if a great boxer takes a bribe to go down in the second, it doesnt make him any less of a great boxer, it does however, prove him to have faked (thrown) the fight and it reflects hugely on his character. Colin is an amazing medium, as is Derek. Dereks mistake was chasing ratings, and Colin's mistake was to not accepting that things go wrong sometimes.

i honestly feel, the only way to change somebodies mine, actually, sorry, the only way a person can change their mind about anything is if they experience it themselves. all the talking back and forward will never do any good.

If you are doing something in which trust in your integrity is essential, you never break that trust, or you will never get it back. Unfortunately, in both of the cases above, the mediums will never have full credibility again. Every time they come up against disbelief or skepticism, this will be used. It doesnt matter if they are good. In the eyes of common people, once a cheat, always a cheat.

Package

Oryx wrote: »

If you are doing something in which trust in your integrity is essential, you never break that trust, or you will never get it back. Unfortunately, in both of the cases above, the mediums will never have full credibility again. Every time they come up against disbelief or skepticism, this will be used. It doesnt matter if they are good. In the eyes of common people, once a cheat, always a cheat.

yes this is true. some people unfortnatly Do break their trust in themselves, and maybe it is because they feel that if they dont perform to 100% or their capabilities every single time, then they come under scrutiny from the skeptics. and when you have a TV show that puts food on your table, this may be more important to some people as saying "look folks, its not happening tonight"

in a One to One sitting, this happens from time to time with ALL mediums bar none. in that case it is easy to apologise and try to organise something else. on tv with 6 million people watching,, not so easy.

saying that, i would not let that turn me against getting a reading off either one of the above mentioned.

look at like this. if a person going to a medium for anything other than a laugh, wants/needs a message, and they get that message, and it chancges their lives, as it does to a large percentage of people who go to mediums. then is it not money well spent?

ive seen people get messages from loved ones which has lifted so much weight from their lives. now let me ask this.

say,, just say, that it all turned out to be bul****,, say the lads there are right, and there is no such thing as mediums or talking to the dead, or telephathy or the afterlife. just say, that Derek Achorah is a big fat fake, and he cold reads a client who is desperate for a message from her murdered son., and get this, derek fakes a reading and lucky guesses that message. and the broken woman walks away 100 euro lighter but now, thanks to that message, a weight so great has been lifted from her shoulders, so much so that she begins to live again, she opens her curtains and realises that the sun is shining again.

is it so bad that a measly hundred euro saved that woman from a lifetimes worth of anguish?

after all, good mediums will refund your money if your not happy with the reading. what have you got to lose???

Oryx

Yes, it is so bad. I honestly believe that. It makes a lie of everything any mediums have ever tried to do. If youre going to counsel and charge for it, then get a proper qualification and do that. If you are going to pass messages from the dead, then you do that. If the medium cannot give a message every time, then they admit they cant in every case where it doesnt work.

Why would you even consider it valid to do otherwise? They are either honest or they are not. There is no compassionate wriggle room in that for me.

Genghiz Cohen

Package wrote: »

is it so bad that a measly hundred euro saved that woman from a lifetimes worth of anguish?

after all, good mediums will refund your money if your not happy with the reading. what have you got to lose???

It is if you are Sylvia Browne and you tell a young woman she'll be dead in 2 years.
link

Package

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Package wrote: »

is it so bad that a measly hundred euro saved that woman from a lifetimes worth of anguish?

It is if you are Sylvia Browne and you tell a young woman she'll be dead in 2 years.
link

now things are getting ridiculous, how in the name of......... they are nowhere near the same thing???

stop bridging connections that are not there.

your son wants you to move on he loves you very much, he has always loved you. he needs you find happiness and remember him the way he was when he was here

is te same as

your going to die in two years ????? really?



i dont think i have ever heard anyone say something so stupid in all my life.

Package

sylvia brown is shockin, she is a terrible person who manipulates and takes advamtage of people in need of answers. im not saying she has, nor am i saying she has not got psychic powers. maybe she does, but she makes up more than she gets .

no medium would ever tell parents their kid who was abducted was dead. its a total disgrace, let alone he was found alive . SHE is the type to give the decent ones the bad name.

check out this shocking clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yzz8vaZgE8

Oryx

I think the point is that if you allow psychics to fudge answers and say what people want, at what point do you draw the line? Sylvia Browne preys on the needy. I know thats not at all similar to someone who has a clients best interests at heart, but lying in any form is not the way to go.

Dave!

Fvcking hell Package, you're outraged about Sylvia Browne, but you'll still give your backing to proven fakes, absolutely comical.

Package

Dave! wrote: »

Fvcking hell Package, you're outraged about Sylvia Browne, but you'll still give your backing to proven fakes, absolutely comical.

as i said before,, they are not proven fakes , and depends what ya mean by give my backin too.

yeah comical, i can see why you would be rolling around laughing at that one. :cool:

do me a favour dude,, watch these two videos and tell me the diffrence between them and that absolute cretin Sylvia Browne,, just do that for me,, before you say "im not watching anything there about any of them fakes"

Colin Fry

Derik achorah (fast forward till about 6 mins in)

Dave!

Package wrote: »

as i said before,, they are not proven fakes , and depends what ya mean by give my backin too.

yeah comical, i can see why you would be rolling around laughing at that one. :cool:

do me a favour dude,, watch these two videos and tell me the diffrence between them and that absolute cretin Sylvia Browne,, just do that for me,, before you say "im not watching anything there about any of them fakes"

Colin Fry

Derik achorah (fast forward till about 6 mins in)

What am I supposed to make of these? TV shows which can be edited however way the producers wish, no information about anything that happened before the show (did researchers walk around and chat to people?), no way to verify that the people answering the questions are not simply plants, etc.

How on earth can you put some much faith in these shows? As I said before, I can understand people being convinced when they're face to face with someone, but there is absolutely no way to know what's happening in these shows. You're just going by what they show you on the screen. It's completely uncontrolled.

Package

Dave! wrote: »

What am I supposed to make of these?

im not tryin to convince you , im merely pointeing out the massive differences between these two and Silvia Brown.

but tell me this, if YOU were going to a mediums show, would you tell people about everything in your past and all relations, dead relatives ect??

not a chance.

MinnyMinor

Originally Posted by Package
after all, good mediums will refund your money if your not happy with the reading. what have you got to lose???

Can you name some.

Package

MinnyMinor wrote: »

Can you name some.

what is the point in that?

MinnyMinor

Package wrote: »

what is the point in that?

i want a reading from someone who will refund if not happy

Package

MinnyMinor wrote: »

i want a reading from someone who will refund if not happy

Ok let me try find out for ya

Major Lovechild

This will not end well. The answer that anyone else in the entertainment business (and let's face it - that's what mediums are) will tell you is that you pay your money - you watch the show. Ask any cinema for a refund because you didn't like the film and you'll be told where to go. That's just for starters.

Major Lovechild

I'm playing devil's advocate here mods.

MinnyMinor

Major Lovechild wrote: »

This will not end well. The answer that anyone else in the entertainment business (and let's face it - that's what mediums are) will tell you is that you pay your money - you watch the show. Ask any cinema for a refund because you didn't like the film and you'll be told where to go. That's just for starters.

Package says "good mediums will refund your money if your not happy with the reading. "

Oryx

The policy of the SNU, and therefore anyone affiliated with them, is that a client can stop a reading that is not working and pay nothing. Thats the only group I know of who have set rules about this. After that I suppose its down to the individual reader but its something people should ask before booking. That blog post that was linked to about Sylvia Brown does show how reluctant people are to complain though.