Ouija Boards???

Major Lovechild

Oryx wrote: »

I doubt it would have any effect?

Unless you have one person pushing the glass the entertainment level will be zero.

GodlessM

liamwhite wrote: »

O.k thats fair enough, i presumed that you were talking about peoples online stories, but it would be easy in person to determine better if the person is lying or not.

Yes thats what i meant sorry a cynic

Can i be rude to ask with your research into this subject, to date have to had any stories that you yourself believe to be true? I take it you have never had your own experience with the paranormal???

I myself have not experienced anything yet, other than stories my family have told me and i do believe them, except my aunt, she is too religious. When somebody mentions god i shut off straight away!

I do believe in the afterlife, but i feel the religion end of it is a pure fairytale. Now i could be wrong i could be very very wrong. I am not saying that the church is lying, or that people with there holy god experiences and that jesus came to them i do not say at all that those stories are not real, i have no right to say that. But i just find them harder to believe.

I was refering to people's tales online; just because they are typing you can still see contradictions and mistakes.

As to my research in this subject, if you mean Ouija, I'm not researching it as I don't believe it is worth looking into for reasons that many have expressed in this thread. My own research is in many areas of the unexplained (not just paranormal) but right now due to budgetary reasons I am keeping my horizons on Ireland. Currently I am looking into claims from Curraghchase (heading out there for the night at the weekend) and also researching the lore from the Lough Gur area (which is interesting me a lot lately as I've found a lot of it linked despite coming from varied times and sources). BTW, it's not rude of you to ask.

As for my own experiences, it is hard to say. Like most people my experiences have been cases of maybes. Flickering lights and cold spots in one particular area of a mate's house, and forboding feelings in the same spot, but to me that's no reason to cry wolf. Though I checked the electrics I still leave room in mind that I missed something. I've be known to have a habit of saying out loud, 'you are not welcome' when these things happen, but mainly it is just to see what happens. Sometimes it seems to work, but that could just be my subconscious. Regarding sightings, once as a kid I thought I saw a ghost, but then again I was a kid. My mother also swears she say a strange old lady hovering when she was young in an old part of the city, and she's not the type to bull**** (though she's believe anything). Again, none of it is concrete so I don't class it as an experience, just a maybe.

As for belief in the afterlife, I'd love to believe, but it is hard for me to do so. That's one of the main reasons I research the unexplained, in hopes of finding an answer because God's honest truth; I am terrified of death :rolleyes:

liamwhite

GodlessM wrote: »

I was refering to people's tales online; just because they are typing you can still see contradictions and mistakes.

As to my research in this subject, if you mean Ouija, I'm not researching it as I don't believe it is worth looking into for reasons that many have expressed in this thread. My own research is in many areas of the unexplained (not just paranormal) but right now due to budgetary reasons I am keeping my horizons on Ireland. Currently I am looking into claims from Curraghchase (heading out there for the night at the weekend) and also researching the lore from the Lough Gur area (which is interesting me a lot lately as I've found a lot of it linked despite coming from varied times and sources). BTW, it's not rude of you to ask.

As for my own experiences, it is hard to say. Like most people my experiences have been cases of maybes. Flickering lights and cold spots in one particular area of a mate's house, and forboding feelings in the same spot, but to me that's no reason to cry wolf. Though I checked the electrics I still leave room in mind that I missed something. I've be known to have a habit of saying out loud, 'you are not welcome' when these things happen, but mainly it is just to see what happens. Sometimes it seems to work, but that could just be my subconscious. Regarding sightings, once as a kid I thought I saw a ghost, but then again I was a kid. My mother also swears she say a strange old lady hovering when she was young in an old part of the city, and she's not the type to bull**** (though she's believe anything). Again, none of it is concrete so I don't class it as an experience, just a maybe.

As for belief in the afterlife, I'd love to believe, but it is hard for me to do so. That's one of the main reasons I research the unexplained, in hopes of finding an answer because God's honest truth; I am terrified of death :rolleyes:

Well fair play to you, i think its great that instead of saying "ah it cant be true" you actually go and look for your own answers, which is brilliant.

It seems to me that you do actually believe to an extent, you just have your doubts and like Dave your not easily convinced. Which is a good thing.

I think we are all terrified of death, and i think its because in todays world we are more likely to die younger than years ago, with the murder rates jumped, huge drug use and messy drivers on the road. I say that because once i asked my grandfather was he afraid of death? and he said not at all... i told him i was and he told me exactly what i just told you. But still, the thing is to enjoy life while we have it and do as much as we can to leave our footprint on this earth, because even if there is an afterlife.. we will never have this life again! so enjoy it

Keep in touch please and let me know how you get on with your research, i would love to hear on your progress in it.

KeithAFC

I find it weird why anyone would be afraid of death. Believer or non believer. We have been dead in the physical sense for 4.8 billion years.

liamwhite

KeithAFC wrote: »

I find it weird why anyone would be afraid of death. Believer or non believer. We have been dead in the physical sense for 4.8 billion years.

Yes thats fair enough, but now 4.8 billion years later we are not dead, we are very much alive in the physical sense surrounded by people we love and people we care for a lot, the fear i based on losing the ones you love and never seeing them again ever!

If we were not born we would not know, but we were born and we do know so that is why we fear it, well speaking for myself here of course!

heisenburger

I wouldnt do one, far too superstitious for that carry on!;)

Elbi

my roommate, last night brought up in conversation that she would be having friends over for wine and that one was to bring a Ouija board and they were going to have a go. I FREAKED OUT.
I have heard some awful stories about them, when we were kids a friend of mine got really obsessed with it and ended up tryin to kill himself,

anyway im not sure if they are real or not but why tempt faith. I dont care if its paranormal or the subconcious or trick of the mind, whatever it is I want nothing to do with it, I told her the board was NOT to come into the house and that if she does allow this to take place she will be asked to leave.

mcmoustache

The Ouija boards are safe enough as long as you take precautions. Since the spirit world is a different dimension in space and time altogether, you can't assume that you'll channel some Irish guy who lived in the house 100 years ago. That would be one hell of a coincidence considering all the people who have ever existed since the human species evolved past the cut-off point between non-ghost-producing and ghost-producing animals. Assuming that only homo-sapiens produce ghosts, then you have 150,000 years worth of dead people to channel. Two and a half million years worth if homo habilis produced ghosts but there hasn't been enough research done in this area so it's hard to say.

That said, a homo habilis would probably only spell out screeching noises and fling the board off the table. If they turn violent, there isn't a lot you can do. The total number of dead homo-sapiens far outnumbers the total number of dead hominids from previous eras so it's safe to assume that you'll probably channel a human.

You're experience will vary depending on which time and place the human which you channeled lived in. There's a pretty good chance of channeling an english speaker as they historically have had a large population. These provide the best experience as communication will at least be coherent.

Unfortunately most of the rest will be chinese so you should get a ouija board with the chinese character set. They can't be expected to know how to use an english one. These are available from Hong Kong and measure about three metres by three metres. You'll need to understand chinese, obviously.

You should also allow for the presense of other asians and europeans and learn to say "Piss Off" in multiple languages. Otherwise you'll end up with a russian pulling the glass one way and a german pulling the other way creating a linguistic mess. The rest of the world has historically been fairly ignorant when it comes to literacy so I wouldn't worry too much about them.

You should also be culturally sensitive. Grounding techniques vary from place to place so you should educate yourself about the different strategies. For example, if you channel a haitian from 150 years ago and don't want him butting in on your conversation with Elvis, it might be difficult to get him to feck off. In this case you'll need to slaughter and spill the blood of a chicken on some clam shells and then on yourself. That'll get rid of him If Vlad the Impalor starts freaking you out, rub some garlic all over your body, put a cross around your neck and start running around the room screaming "Hagyj békén".

Because different spirits have different pet-peeves, you'll need to prepare for as many eventualities as possible. Crystals, religious paraphernalia, various animal blood, magnets, bodily fluids, incantations, rabbit's feet, warhammer figureens, vegetables, cats and anything else that you can think of. The more you have, the better the chance that you'll have the item you need. This might seem cruel to the spirits but the only way to have a conversation in peace is to stop all the billions of dead people from pulling on the glass at the same time.

The biggest hazard you might encounter would be a spirit who decides to stay after the ouija session. If this happens and your house becomes haunted, none of the tips above will help. You'll need to speak to professionals. If you are fortunate, the spirit will have been catholic so catholic afterlife rules apply and the spirit can be removed through a process of exorcism. If you have the misfortune of having an Egyption from three thousand years ago inhabit your house, it might be difficult to get a practitioner to remove him but you'll have to track one down. There is no way to remove an atheist spirit as they don't believe that they are actually ghosts. You can speak to them rationally however, assuming you speak a common language, and convince them to move somewhere more convenient such as a church.

There have been lots of opinions expressed in this thread by people who haven't really thought any of this stuff through. There's more to the ouija than just watching Satan use a glass to write stuff in english. That only happens in the movies. In reality, you'll be frustrated by illiterate ghosts who can't punctuate properly, ghosts with archaic or no english and multiple ghosts from different cultures trying to talk to you at the same time.

I wish you luck OP and anyone else who wants to try this, but please be careful and only do this if you are prepared to live with the consequences.

GodlessM

mcmoustache wrote: »

Since the spirit world is a different dimension in space and time altogether

You've said this in a very matter-of-fact manner.

mcmoustache

GodlessM wrote: »

You've said this in a very matter-of-fact manner.

They certainly don't inhabit this one.

GodlessM

mcmoustache wrote: »

They certainly don't inhabit this one.

Says who? Assuming they are real, if no ghosts inhabit our world then how come people have seen them?

The only fact here in all of this, is that everything we 'know' is theoretical. You can't definitively claim anything on the subject, nor can I or anyone else.

mcmoustache

People think that they see them when they don't. Ghosts don't emit any EM radiation on the visible wavelengths or invisible. If they did they would have been detected long ago. They also don't reflect light. Again, this would have been easily detected. If light isn't emitted or reflected, it's not hitting your retina which is what seeing is. If you see stuff and there was no EM radiation, it's safe to say that it's all in your head. The same thing happens with sound and hearing ghosts.

As far as I can tell, ghosts can only express their existence through moving glasses on a ouija board, mediums like Derek Okorah, sitting on people as they sleep, moving curtains and people eating alphabet soup. If they were visible, you'd see them everywhere because a lot of people have died in the earth's history. And even if only those that couldn't get to heaven became ghosts, there are still plenty of souls around who were born into the wrong religion and need to wander the astral plains giving people the willies.

tl;dr

People see ghosts because there is something wrong with how their brains process reality. If ghosts were visible, they'd be seen with electronic equipment as this planet should be full of unsaved souls.

GodlessM

Considering your PM to me I won't waste my time replying properly to your post, though why not just post here publically to say you are trolling and taking the piss so the rest of us can get on with our conversation, instead of PM'ing me about it?

mcmoustache

GodlessM wrote: »

Considering your PM to me I won't waste my time replying properly to your post, though why not just post here publically to say you are trolling and taking the piss so the rest of us can get on with our conversation, instead of PM'ing me about it?

Because I think there were important points to be made regarding the possible mechanisms of how a Ouija board would work if we were to assume that:

1. There is a plane of existence where the spirits of the dead exist and

2. That Ouija is a form of communication used by those spirits to communicate with this world.

As it happens, I don't believe either of these assumptions but I don't need to in order to guess at what would happen if these assumptions were true. It's a different approach to the usual sceptic versus believer arguments that are very common around these parts.

The people who believe in Ouija boards rarely provide any sort of mechanism about how they work other than to say that they channel a single spirit and this causes people to unconciously move the glass according to the desire of the spirit. This seems all rather simplistic to me as an explanation.

That would require that there was some sort of queuing system in the afterlife which prevented all spirits communicating at once or it might require that there was a way to isolate a single spirit from all the rest.
It would also require that spirits were literate in english and knew how to use a ouija board.

In a slightly tongue-in-cheek way, I tried to address these issues in the post without calling people stupid or dismissing the idea entirely. Certainly, there was a bit of reduxio ad absurdum about it as well as some well-meaning humour. But there were some very important points raised there about how Ouija might work.

Now, back on topic....

One question I have regarding the mechanism that I didn't bring up in my post is how a spirit controls the glass. The way I see it there are a few possibilities:

1. Through telekinesis, the spirit exerts a subtle force on the glass.

2. The spirit subtly posesses all of the participants and each of them are responsible in a small way for moving the glass at the behest of the spirit.

3. The spirit subtly posesses one of the participants and the other participants follow his/her movement.

I think that option 1 would have been detected by now if there was such a thing. When the human race has detectors that can detect the force of gravity between two plumb-bobs, the force required to move the glass would be really easy to detect. I think that option 2 would be impractical and many times harder than option 3 which I think is most likely.

Would this be the concensus among those who believe in the Ouija boards?
Again, I should repeat that I don't believe any of this stuff but I'm asking "If these work, how do they work?".

quiteone

Has anyone actually tired it yet??? Well i have ordered one but not from Toys R Us, and do intend to use it as soon as it gets here!!

GodlessM

quiteone wrote: »

Has anyone actually tired it yet??? Well i have ordered one but not from Toys R Us, and do intend to use it as soon as it gets here!!

Do you know a seance?

Fozzydog3

Edgedinblue wrote: »

im a bit baffled at the min, if only since '72 its been used to contact the dead, then what game could/was played with it before hand?

it was actually a little-person oriented twister

quiteone

GodlessM wrote: »

Do you know a seance?

No what for?? Still hasnt arrived....maybe monday!?

GodlessM

quiteone wrote: »

No what for?? Still hasnt arrived....maybe monday!?

That's the response I was expecting. See whatyou have gone and done is spent money on a product and declared you are going to use it, yet you have no idea how. The board itself is not important, and is simply a conduit so that you can understand what the spirit is saying. To actual contact the spirit in the first place you have to conduct a seance. Quite simply the board isn't magical or anything, it's about as magical as a filled Scrabble board (which could be used to as much effect mind you).

Oryx

GodlessM wrote: »

That's the response I was expecting. See whatyou have gone and done is spent money on a product and declared you are going to use it, yet you have no idea how. The board itself is not important, and is simply a conduit so that you can understand what the spirit is saying. To actual contact the spirit in the first place you have to conduct a seance. Quite simply the board isn't magical or anything, it's about as magical as a filled Scrabble board (which could be used to as much effect mind you).

True. Any random object could be used to aid such contact.

vampire of kilmainham

mcmoustache wrote: »

The Ouija boards are safe enough as long as you take precautions. Since the spirit world is a different dimension in space and time altogether, you can't assume that you'll channel some Irish guy who lived in the house 100 years ago. That would be one hell of a coincidence considering all the people who have ever existed since the human species evolved past the cut-off point between non-ghost-producing and ghost-producing animals. Assuming that only homo-sapiens produce ghosts, then you have 150,000 years worth of dead people to channel. Two and a half million years worth if homo habilis produced ghosts but there hasn't been enough research done in this area so it's hard to say.

That said, a homo habilis would probably only spell out screeching noises and fling the board off the table. If they turn violent, there isn't a lot you can do. The total number of dead homo-sapiens far outnumbers the total number of dead hominids from previous eras so it's safe to assume that you'll probably channel a human.

You're experience will vary depending on which time and place the human which you channeled lived in. There's a pretty good chance of channeling an english speaker as they historically have had a large population. These provide the best experience as communication will at least be coherent.

Unfortunately most of the rest will be chinese so you should get a ouija board with the chinese character set. They can't be expected to know how to use an english one. These are available from Hong Kong and measure about three metres by three metres. You'll need to understand chinese, obviously.

You should also allow for the presense of other asians and europeans and learn to say "Piss Off" in multiple languages. Otherwise you'll end up with a russian pulling the glass one way and a german pulling the other way creating a linguistic mess. The rest of the world has historically been fairly ignorant when it comes to literacy so I wouldn't worry too much about them.

You should also be culturally sensitive. Grounding techniques vary from place to place so you should educate yourself about the different strategies. For example, if you channel a haitian from 150 years ago and don't want him butting in on your conversation with Elvis, it might be difficult to get him to feck off. In this case you'll need to slaughter and spill the blood of a chicken on some clam shells and then on yourself. That'll get rid of him If Vlad the Impalor starts freaking you out, rub some garlic all over your body, put a cross around your neck and start running around the room screaming "Hagyj békén".

Because different spirits have different pet-peeves, you'll need to prepare for as many eventualities as possible. Crystals, religious paraphernalia, various animal blood, magnets, bodily fluids, incantations, rabbit's feet, warhammer figureens, vegetables, cats and anything else that you can think of. The more you have, the better the chance that you'll have the item you need. This might seem cruel to the spirits but the only way to have a conversation in peace is to stop all the billions of dead people from pulling on the glass at the same time.

The biggest hazard you might encounter would be a spirit who decides to stay after the ouija session. If this happens and your house becomes haunted, none of the tips above will help. You'll need to speak to professionals. If you are fortunate, the spirit will have been catholic so catholic afterlife rules apply and the spirit can be removed through a process of exorcism. If you have the misfortune of having an Egyption from three thousand years ago inhabit your house, it might be difficult to get a practitioner to remove him but you'll have to track one down. There is no way to remove an atheist spirit as they don't believe that they are actually ghosts. You can speak to them rationally however, assuming you speak a common language, and convince them to move somewhere more convenient such as a church.

There have been lots of opinions expressed in this thread by people who haven't really thought any of this stuff through. There's more to the ouija than just watching Satan use a glass to write stuff in english. That only happens in the movies. In reality, you'll be frustrated by illiterate ghosts who can't punctuate properly, ghosts with archaic or no english and multiple ghosts from different cultures trying to talk to you at the same time.

I wish you luck OP and anyone else who wants to try this, but please be careful and only do this if you are prepared to live with the consequences.

are you writing a book

Mebbel

GodlessM wrote: »

Well the first thing to note is technically speaking there's no such thing as a 'real' or 'fake' board per say as all the board is is a conduit; it's only real purpose is so the user can understand what the spirit is saying. The board can't be evil for that matter either.

Regards their use, the gimp thing about them is no one can ever tell if they really work or not because it's way too easy to fake. Personally I think it's a load of jargon. I'm sure there are ways to contact the dead, but playing a glorified game of Scrabble with bumps in the night involved doesn't seem like one of 'em to me (find it hard to imagine Casper siting cross legged on the floor pushing a planchette around).

I agree that it is a conduit, a means of communicating with the other side. This is fully dependant on the person using it, and the purpose for the use... As much as it depends on the person using it, as also the person is seen as a conduit... some people have a more open link with the other side, and are alot more open to receiving messages or being influenced.

They used to sell them in the Netherlands about 18 - 20 years ago, and quickly they got banned from being sold due to the complaints coming in about concerned parents but also people who had negative experiences with it.

This should not be sold as a kids toy, it is dangerous... especially for children, who are ALOT more open to messages from other realms...

kevap

Know this is an old thread but only just saw this.
I can tell you from experience Ouija Boards do produce results.
I & some others did it recently & there were answers given only one of us could know at a time but our hands were back away from the glass we used (we had a home made board).
It made predictions also.
I have to say it was the single coolest thing i have ever seen - i'm in my 30's.
My wife, her sister & sister's boyfriend were present for it & i can promise you they did not cheat, neither did i.
It was just incredible & nothing bad has happened to any of us since.
Although it has been only a few days.
I'm not here to argue, convince or anything - just wanted to share my experience.
It was life changing to tell the truth - i sort of believe in a higher being now.
Thanks for reading,
K

irishgirl19

My aunt had a really bad experience with one of these,so my mam tells me.
She ended up doing it obsessively and all crazy stuff start happening in the house.

Anyway I tried this about 3 years ago,and it scared the **** out of me. me and my friend were doing it and asking about boyfriends and what not and she asked would I stay with my boyfriend and have kids.It said no and I kept asking it in different ways and then it kept on moving to no back and fourth really really fast as if it was angry.

I was really upset, im still with my boyfriend now but what the board says always worries me when I think of it

kevap

irishgirl19 wrote: »

My aunt had a really bad experience with one of these,so my mam tells me.
She ended up doing it obsessively and all crazy stuff start happening in the house.

Anyway I tried this about 3 years ago,and it scared the **** out of me. me and my friend were doing it and asking about boyfriends and what not and she asked would I stay with my boyfriend and have kids.It said no and I kept asking it in different ways and then it kept on moving to no back and fourth really really fast as if it was angry.

I was really upset, im still with my boyfriend now but what the board says always worries me when I think of it

My friends & I did it last night & it tried to tell us Satan was there. The other 5 panicked but I shouted at them to calm down & finish out the session. You must not allow the board to frighten you. You must show who's in charge. I told whoever it was to leave the session immediately which it seemed to do. Please don't worry about what happened to you!! I don't pretend to know everything about Ouija boards but I do know you need to toughen up & not fear some joker trying to upset you. Otherwise - the joker wins. Don't worry about it!!

kylith

The messages from the board are from nowhere but your own subconcious minds!!!!! You cannot contact spirits with it, only your own self. If there is any negativity then it is a product of your own subconcious. The Ouija Board is a toy made by Hasbro, it's no more a portal to the spirit realm than Scrabble or Hungry, Hungry Hippos.

If 'no-one was moving the glass/planchette' then either someone's lying, or you need to look up the idiomotor effect because you can move the glass/planchette without being aware of what you are doing.

If you're going to play with something, like a Ouija board, that can freak some people out then you need to educate yourself on how and why it works first, so that no-one winds up getting too spooked.

kevap

kylith wrote: »

The messages from the board are from nowhere but your own subconcious minds!!!!! You cannot contact spirits with it, only your own self. If there is any negativity then it is a product of your own subconcious. The Ouija Board is a toy made by Hasbro, it's no more a portal to the spirit realm than Scrabble or Hungry, Hungry Hippos.

If 'no-one was moving the glass/planchette' then either someone's lying, or you need to look up the idiomotor effect because you can move the glass/planchette without being aware of what you are doing.

If you're going to play with something, like a Ouija board, that can freak some people out then you need to educate yourself on how and why it works first, so that no-one winds up getting too spooked.

I would argue that you are wrong I'm afraid. I have read all what you have said before. But explain this, the other night my wife was contacted by her friend who is not here anymore. The planchette spelled out an ex boyfriend if the passed away girls repeatedly. We didn't understand. The girl herself died from suicide. She kept spelling it out over & over. Finally my wife asked her was she concerned about him. She said yes. She asked why. Got his name spelled again. Asked if he'd just broken up with his long term partner or something, who is also mother to a child of his. It answered yes. Found out yesterday this was the case. She told us stuff we could never possibly have known. Explain that please!! If you don't believe in this board being able to do what I've seen with my own eyes, then you are making a terrible mistake. I have felt magnetic or anti magnetic kind of feeling around the glass. I have also caught one person pushing it & got them to leave. You can tell when someone's cheating. If you don't believe me, PM me & i'll happily do a Ouija board session with you to show you how wrong you are.

Dave!

kevap wrote: »

I would argue that you are wrong I'm afraid. I have read all what you have said before. But explain this, the other night my wife was contacted by her friend who is not here anymore. The planchette spelled out an ex boyfriend if the passed away girls repeatedly. We didn't understand. The girl herself died from suicide. She kept spelling it out over & over. Finally my wife asked her was she concerned about him. She said yes. She asked why. Got his name spelled again. Asked if he'd just broken up with his long term partner or something, who is also mother to a child of his. It answered yes. Found out yesterday this was the case.

Seems a bit odd to me that the first thing to occur to your wife that might be wrong with the dead woman's ex-boyfriend is that he broke up with his long-term partner. Nothing about his health, his partner or child's health, not financial difficulties, not depression over the ex-girlfriend committing suicide...? Did the spirit pass the question to your wife to ask... well, to ask the spirit! I think your wife might have already known about the break-up.

kevap wrote: »

If you don't believe in this board being able to do what I've seen with my own eyes, then you are making a terrible mistake. I have felt magnetic or anti magnetic kind of feeling around the glass.

That's just in your head, because you obviously believe this stuff very deeply. You're tricking yourself.

kevap wrote: »

I have also caught one person pushing it & got them to leave. You can tell when someone's cheating. If you don't believe me, PM me & i'll happily do a Ouija board session with you to show you how wrong you are.

You just haven't caught the others. There's always someone moving the glass, or multiple people. The glass will never move unless someone is touching it.

kevap

Dave! wrote: »

Seems a bit odd to me that the first thing to occur to your wife that might be wrong with the dead woman's ex-boyfriend is that he broke up with his long-term partner. Nothing about his health, his partner or child's health, not financial difficulties, not depression over the ex-girlfriend committing suicide...? Did the spirit pass the question to your wife to ask... well, to ask the spirit! I think your wife might have already known about the break-up.



That's just in your head, because you obviously believe this stuff very deeply. You're tricking yourself.



You just haven't caught the others. There's always someone moving the glass, or multiple people. The glass will never move unless someone is touching it.

I actually didn't believe until I FELT it. Up until last Sunday night I was a firm non believer actually - now it has begun to make me ask questions. The others were not cheating because I trust my wife & the other person for one. And because I FELT the invisible force like a magnetic force. We all took our fingers off the glass at various points to prove it wasn't us. We were all in shock the first one last week went so well. I'm sorry but you are guessing & passing things off as fact. Were you here? Obviously not. I'm 30+ years old & very street wise. I know when someone is lying or cheating just as easily as I can say I know you do not know what you're talking about because you were not here. Maybe you just live in fear of spirits?? Say what you want but there were numerous witnesses to what happened. Other things happen in this house too that can't be explained, but I suppose that's my subconscious too is it?? My wife supposedly has psychic abilities. She was told this years ago by....Yup you've guessed it, a psychic. Lots of things that are unexplained happen around her. Other people including me have seen / heard these things too. Remember, I was 100% a non believer until last week. Even after witnessing these strange things - I always had an answer like you. Believe whatever you like, but I'm just sharing my experiences. I wish you could have seen them too as I think even you'd struggle to explain them...

kylith

kevap wrote: »

I would argue that you are wrong I'm afraid. I have read all what you have said before. But explain this, the other night my wife was contacted by her friend who is not here anymore. The planchette spelled out an ex boyfriend if the passed away girls repeatedly. We didn't understand. The girl herself died from suicide. She kept spelling it out over & over.

So someone was spelling out a name. First name or last name?

Finally my wife asked her was she concerned about him.

I'd call that a leading question

She said yes.

Someone said yes

She asked why.

Fair question

Got his name spelled again.

Well, that's not much of an answer to a direct question. Almost like whoever was moving the glass couldn't really think of an answer, don't you think? If it was this dead girl's spirit why wouldn't it just tell you instead of making you play 20 questions?

Asked if he'd just broken up with his long term partner or something, who is also mother to a child of his.

Was this possibility on your wife's mind? Whether it was or not, she just gave whoever was moving the glass, whether it was conciously or unconciously, something they could latch onto; like a medium throwing out names until someone makes a connection ("I'm getting an M.... Mary, Maura, Maria..." "Martha?" "Yes, Martha. She says she is very happy beyond the veil..." I always wondered how they could claim to be giving accurate messages when they don't even seem to be able to get the person's name right without prompting).

It answered yes.

50/50 chance of being correct.

Found out yesterday this was the case.

That's a coincidence that's hardly beyond the realms of possibility, especially if this gentleman was on your wife's mind for some reason. She may have heard that he was having problems with his relationship and, though not conciously retained, it would probably have jumped to the front of her mind if his name were to later come up, such as when messing about with a Ouija board. See also Confirmation bias; basically we, as a species, have a tendency to retain information that fits our beliefs and forget information which doesn't.

For example, if the 'spirit' had said that this guy hadn't broken up with his girlfriend you wouldn't be on here telling us that the ouija board was wrong. You probably wouldn't even remember it. It's like the way you (not you specifically, the general 'you') remember that you were thinking of a Simpson's episode, and that very episode was on telly that evening, but you've forgotten all the times you thought of an episode and it wasn't on telly that evening.

She told us stuff we could never possibly have known. Explain that please!!

What kind of stuff? Stuff that only the deceased could have known? Remember that mediums can often come up with stuff 'no-one could have known' through a combination of eavesdropping, cold reading and lucky guesses. 'John broke up with his girlfriend' is hardly an earth shattering revelation. 'These are next week's Lotto numbers' would have been a bit more impressive.

If you don't believe in this board being able to do what I've seen with my own eyes, then you are making a terrible mistake. I have felt magnetic or anti magnetic kind of feeling around the glass. I have also caught one person pushing it & got them to leave. You can tell when someone's cheating.

All that means is that you've caught one person, you just haven't caught the rest, or the people who are doing it unconciously. Next time you do it stack a few cardboard discs on top of the glass. If it's really moving by itself then the cardboard won't slip in the direction people are pushing it. You could also do it blindfolded; set up a camera beforehand and see how good the spirit is at sending messages when none of you can see the board.

If you don't believe me, PM me & i'll happily do a Ouija board session with you to show you how wrong you are.

I have used Ouija boards before, thanks, and I heard my name called 'from out of nowhere' which freaked me out for about as long as it took for me to realise that I was within earshot of other people, and my name is hardly uncommon. I have no burning desire to spend an evening with a lot of people who can't even be bothered to educate themselves about how the toy they're using works.

Maybe you could answer one question for me though; assuming, for the sake of arguement, that spirits do exist and can communicate through a bit of cardboard; why do people insist on contacting them? They're dead, so why not leave them alone? Why keep dragging them back from their rest to answer questions about whether or not Jimmy split up with his girlfriend, or if grandad's happy being dead? Since reports on this forum have them making noises and throwing things around rooms, why not just take it for granted that if they have something important enough that they feel the need to tell you they'll write a note, or something.

kevap

Dave! wrote: »

Seems a bit odd to me that the first thing to occur to your wife that might be wrong with the dead woman's ex-boyfriend is that he broke up with his long-term partner. Nothing about his health, his partner or child's health, not financial difficulties, not depression over the ex-girlfriend committing suicide...? Did the spirit pass the question to your wife to ask... well, to ask the spirit! I think your wife might have already known about the break-up.



That's just in your head, because you obviously believe this stuff very deeply. You're tricking yourself.



You just haven't caught the others. There's always someone moving the glass, or multiple people. The glass will never move unless someone is touching it.

By the way, I never suggested it was the first question she asked about the ex.
You assumed that by not reading between the lines. Possibly like how you're assuming its not real. The truth is, none of us know 100%. I can say I'm pretty darn certain what I saw was real. But pretty darn certain isn't definitive is it??

kevap

kylith wrote: »

So someone was spelling out a name. First name or last name?
I'd call that a leading question
Someone said yes
Fair question
Well, that's not much of an answer to a direct question. Almost like whoever was moving the glass couldn't really think of an answer, don't you think? If it was this dead girl's spirit why wouldn't it just tell you instead of making you play 20 questions?
Was this possibility on your wife's mind? Whether it was or not, she just gave whoever was moving the glass, whether it was conciously or unconciously, something they could latch onto; like a medium throwing out names until someone makes a connection ("I'm getting an M.... Mary, Maura, Maria..." "Martha?" "Yes, Martha. She says she is very happy beyond the veil..." I always wondered how they could claim to be giving accurate messages when they don't even seem to be able to get the person's name right without prompting).
50/50 chance of being correct.
That's a coincidence that's hardly beyond the realms of possibility, especially if this gentleman was on your wife's mind for some reason. She may have heard that he was having problems with his relationship and, though not conciously retained, it would probably have jumped to the front of her mind if his name were to later come up, such as when messing about with a Ouija board. See also Confirmation bias; basically we, as a species, have a tendency to retain information that fits our beliefs and forget information which doesn't.

For example, if the 'spirit' had said that this guy hadn't broken up with his girlfriend you wouldn't be on here telling us that the ouija board was wrong. You probably wouldn't even remember it. It's like the way you (not you specifically, the general 'you') remember that you were thinking of a Simpson's episode, and that very episode was on telly that evening, but you've forgotten all the times you thought of an episode and it wasn't on telly that evening.
What kind of stuff? Stuff that only the deceased could have known? Remember that mediums can often come up with stuff 'no-one could have known' through a combination of eavesdropping, cold reading and lucky guesses. 'John broke up with his girlfriend' is hardly an earth shattering revelation. 'These are next week's Lotto numbers' would have been a bit more impressive.
All that means is that you've caught one person, you just haven't caught the rest, or the people who are doing it unconciously. Next time you do it stack a few cardboard discs on top of the glass. If it's really moving by itself then the cardboard won't slip in the direction people are pushing it. You could also do it blindfolded; set up a camera beforehand and see how good the spirit is at sending messages when none of you can see the board.

I have used Ouija boards before, thanks, and I heard my name called 'from out of nowhere' which freaked me out for about as long as it took for me to realise that I was within earshot of other people, and my name is hardly uncommon. I have no burning desire to spend an evening with a lot of people who can't even be bothered to educate themselves about how the toy they're using works.

Maybe you could answer one question for me though; assuming, for the sake of arguement, that spirits do exist and can communicate through a bit of cardboard; why do people insist on contacting them? They're dead, so why not leave them alone? Why keep dragging them back from their rest to answer questions about whether or not Jimmy split up with his girlfriend, or if grandad's happy being dead? Since reports on this forum have them making noises and throwing things around rooms, why not just take it for granted that if they have something important enough that they feel the need to tell you they'll write a note, or something.

Kylith,

I'm sorry, please don't take this personally but I can't answer all those questions here. I'd be writing for ages & don't have the time. I would happily tell you anyway except I know you'd prob gov& still find an explanation. Again, sorry but I found your last reply giving me a headache as I'm using a mobile & finding it hard to see where or what you're actually writing. Why not just ask all your questions in one go instead of mixing them in between what I have written. I don't need the copy & paste. As I said, please don't be offended. I'd love to share my full story. But I just know you've already made up your own mind. And you're entitled to your opinion.

Dave!

kevap wrote: »

I actually didn't believe until I FELT it. Up until last Sunday night I was a firm non believer actually - now it has begun to make me ask questions. The others were not cheating because I trust my wife & the other person for one. And because I FELT the invisible force like a magnetic force. We all took our fingers off the glass at various points to prove it wasn't us. We were all in shock the first one last week went so well. I'm sorry but you are guessing & passing things off as fact. Were you here? Obviously not. I'm 30+ years old & very street wise. I know when someone is lying or cheating just as easily as I can say I know you do not know what you're talking about because you were not here. Maybe you just live in fear of spirits?? Say what you want but there were numerous witnesses to what happened. Other things happen in this house too that can't be explained, but I suppose that's my subconscious too is it?? My wife supposedly has psychic abilities. She was told this years ago by....Yup you've guessed it, a psychic. Lots of things that are unexplained happen around her. Other people including me have seen / heard these things too. Remember, I was 100% a non believer until last week. Even after witnessing these strange things - I always had an answer like you. Believe whatever you like, but I'm just sharing my experiences. I wish you could have seen them too as I think even you'd struggle to explain them...

Yes I'm guessing, because all I have is your account to go off and for all I know you are the victim of an elaborate ruse!

You may have been somewhat skeptical of ouijia boards, but you very obviously have an interest in or an inclination towards magical/spiritual/paranormal thinking; you're even telling me that lots of other "unexplained" things happen in your house.

Your wife was told she has psychic abilities by a psychic? Well that must be the first time a psychic has said that to someone :rolleyes: And they're the authorities, so it must be true! Also the fact that your wife goes to psychics, and believes that she has psychic abilities, might not make her the most objective participant in an ouijia board. I wonder is she trying to confirm what the psychic told her, about her abilities?

The facts are:

1. Your wife goes to psychics
2. Your wife believes that she has psychic abilities too
3. You thought it significant or appropriate to tell me about this fact
4. You claim that lots of spooky things have happened in your house (also the place you did the ouija board, per chance?)
5. You actually did an ouijia board in the first place, which people who aren't into their paranormal stuff don't tend to do!!

These all make me doubt the credibility of your story to be honest.

Not trying to offend you BTW. How people spend their time is not my business.

kevap

kylith wrote: »

So someone was spelling out a name. First name or last name?
I'd call that a leading question
Someone said yes
Fair question
Well, that's not much of an answer to a direct question. Almost like whoever was moving the glass couldn't really think of an answer, don't you think? If it was this dead girl's spirit why wouldn't it just tell you instead of making you play 20 questions?
Was this possibility on your wife's mind? Whether it was or not, she just gave whoever was moving the glass, whether it was conciously or unconciously, something they could latch onto; like a medium throwing out names until someone makes a connection ("I'm getting an M.... Mary, Maura, Maria..." "Martha?" "Yes, Martha. She says she is very happy beyond the veil..." I always wondered how they could claim to be giving accurate messages when they don't even seem to be able to get the person's name right without prompting).
50/50 chance of being correct.
That's a coincidence that's hardly beyond the realms of possibility, especially if this gentleman was on your wife's mind for some reason. She may have heard that he was having problems with his relationship and, though not conciously retained, it would probably have jumped to the front of her mind if his name were to later come up, such as when messing about with a Ouija board. See also Confirmation bias; basically we, as a species, have a tendency to retain information that fits our beliefs and forget information which doesn't.

For example, if the 'spirit' had said that this guy hadn't broken up with his girlfriend you wouldn't be on here telling us that the ouija board was wrong. You probably wouldn't even remember it. It's like the way you (not you specifically, the general 'you') remember that you were thinking of a Simpson's episode, and that very episode was on telly that evening, but you've forgotten all the times you thought of an episode and it wasn't on telly that evening.
What kind of stuff? Stuff that only the deceased could have known? Remember that mediums can often come up with stuff 'no-one could have known' through a combination of eavesdropping, cold reading and lucky guesses. 'John broke up with his girlfriend' is hardly an earth shattering revelation. 'These are next week's Lotto numbers' would have been a bit more impressive.
All that means is that you've caught one person, you just haven't caught the rest, or the people who are doing it unconciously. Next time you do it stack a few cardboard discs on top of the glass. If it's really moving by itself then the cardboard won't slip in the direction people are pushing it. You could also do it blindfolded; set up a camera beforehand and see how good the spirit is at sending messages when none of you can see the board.

I have used Ouija boards before, thanks, and I heard my name called 'from out of nowhere' which freaked me out for about as long as it took for me to realise that I was within earshot of other people, and my name is hardly uncommon. I have no burning desire to spend an evening with a lot of people who can't even be bothered to educate themselves about how the toy they're using works.

Maybe you could answer one question for me though; assuming, for the sake of arguement, that spirits do exist and can communicate through a bit of cardboard; why do people insist on contacting them? They're dead, so why not leave them alone? Why keep dragging them back from their rest to answer questions about whether or not Jimmy split up with his girlfriend, or if grandad's happy being dead? Since reports on this forum have them making noises and throwing things around rooms, why not just take it for granted that if they have something important enough that they feel the need to tell you they'll write a note, or something.

I will answer your last questions as best I can. For me, the first time was to see if it was real. I was a non believer. I didn't really have too many questions. I would also have been an atheist. So I did ask about that. Got the answer I was looking for. Sometimes you ask a question & nothing happens, because the spirit might be low or out of energy allegedly. Or because they don't know the answer. My wife's friend died in controversial circumstances. It was either a murder or suicide. There are still question marks. She asked that question. She answered suicide. Another friend asked her dead parent if they were happy the other parent found a companion. Got no answer. Asked numerous times, still no answer. Eventually it went to yes. Some questions asked came back with wrong answers. Then i would suggest it might be a joker or person playing with you (dead or alive). It spelled out Satan the other night. All the others panicked. I told them to shut up, sit back down & put their hands back on the planchette to tell whoever it was to leave.
It's no joke, I made me shiver but you gotta take control. Weak minds allow anything to happen. Loads more happened. Believe what you like, belief either way is in the mind of the beholder ya know. I respect everyone's opinion but know what I've seen bur most importantly what I've felt..

kevap

Dave! wrote: »

Yes I'm guessing, because all I have is your account to go off and for all I know you are the victim of an elaborate ruse!

You may have been somewhat skeptical of ouijia boards, but you very obviously have an interest in or an inclination towards magical/spiritual/paranormal thinking; you're even telling me that lots of other "unexplained" things happen in your house.

Your wife was told she has psychic abilities by a psychic? Well that must be the first time a psychic has said that to someone :rolleyes: And they're the authorities, so it must be true! Also the fact that your wife goes to psychics, and believes that she has psychic abilities, might not make her the most objective participant in an ouijia board. I wonder is she trying to confirm what the psychic told her, about her abilities?

The facts are:

1. Your wife goes to psychics
2. Your wife believes that she has psychic abilities too
3. You thought it significant or appropriate to tell me about this fact
4. You claim that lots of spooky things have happened in your house (also the place you did the ouija board, per chance?)
5. You actually did an ouijia board in the first place, which people who aren't into their paranormal stuff don't tend to do!!

These all make me doubt the credibility of your story to be honest.

Not trying to offend you BTW. How people spend their time is not my business.

Ah Dave for goodness sake. I never said my wife believed it. Will you stop wasting my time & read what I actually write. Yes, I'm fascinated in the paranormal but only to disprove it originally. Stop trying to push your ideas & put words in my mouth. I will say it one more time, please read it. I respect your opinion but not if you push it on people. I shared some of my experiences. Believe what you like I don't care but don't tell me you know what you do not. You can't even read what I'm writing let alone tell the world the Ouija board is this or that. Now good day to you..

kylith

kevap wrote: »

Kylith,

I'm sorry, please don't take this personally but I can't answer all those questions here. I'd be writing for ages & don't have the time. I would happily tell you anyway except I know you'd prob gov& still find an explanation. Again, sorry but I found your last reply giving me a headache as I'm using a mobile & finding it hard to see where or what you're actually writing. Why not just ask all your questions in one go instead of mixing them in between what I have written. I don't need the copy & paste. As I said, please don't be offended. I'd love to share my full story. But I just know you've already made up your own mind. And you're entitled to your opinion.

I 100% believe that you think what you experienced was real. However I think that you were mistaken or misled as to what was actually happening.

I mix my questions and remarks in because it's easier to keep track of what a person is referencing when it's formatted that way, rather than in a big block of text at the end of the post. It also helps me to keep points straight in my own head. I apologise if this gave you difficulties on your phone.

Have I made up my mind regarding Ouija boards? I suppose that, barring extra-ordinary evidence, I probably have. This is because I have read quite extensively on the subject, including the mechanisms by which people fool themselves into thinking that they are communicating with spirits such as confirmation bias and the idiomotor effect, which I linked to above. I've seen demonstrations of how Ouija boards have been debunked, again I gave some suggestions above. A very good one is Derren Brown's Seance, where a bunch of people manage to contact the spirit of a woman, (via automatic writing, ouija board, and other means) who is actually alive and well, and sitting in a car outside.

kevap

kylith wrote: »

I 100% believe that you think what you experienced was real. However I think that you were mistaken or misled as to what was actually happening.

I mix my questions and remarks in because it's easier to keep track of what a person is referencing when it's formatted that way, rather than in a big block of text at the end of the post. It also helps me to keep points straight in my own head. I apologise if this gave you difficulties on your phone.

Have I made up my mind regarding Ouija boards? I suppose that, barring extra-ordinary evidence, I probably have. This is because I have read quite extensively on the subject, including the mechanisms by which people fool themselves into thinking that they are communicating with spirits such as confirmation bias and the idiomotor effect, which I linked to above. I've seen demonstrations of how Ouija boards have been debunked, again I gave some suggestions above. A very good one is Derren Brown's Seance, where a bunch of people manage to contact the spirit of a woman, (via automatic writing, ouija board, and other means) who is actually alive and well, and sitting in a car outside.

No need for the apology. I respect your opinion. But based on my experiences I must disagree. If my wife's friend appeared in person pushing the planchette & we recorded non believers would still disbelieve it to be fair. Can you explain the energy I felt pushing against my hand even after all the others present removed their hands simultaneously?? I'm sure you'll say it was my imagination or something. Well at on stage none of them had their hands on it, neither did I. My hand was about 2 inches away & it still moved. It moved 2 or so inches away from my finger hence my anti magnetic explanation earlier?? I'm sure even though you weren't here in my house you'll have an "explanation".

kevap

kylith wrote: »

I 100% believe that you think what you experienced was real. However I think that you were mistaken or misled as to what was actually happening.

I mix my questions and remarks in because it's easier to keep track of what a person is referencing when it's formatted that way, rather than in a big block of text at the end of the post. It also helps me to keep points straight in my own head. I apologise if this gave you difficulties on your phone.

Have I made up my mind regarding Ouija boards? I suppose that, barring extra-ordinary evidence, I probably have. This is because I have read quite extensively on the subject, including the mechanisms by which people fool themselves into thinking that they are communicating with spirits such as confirmation bias and the idiomotor effect, which I linked to above. I've seen demonstrations of how Ouija boards have been debunked, again I gave some suggestions above. A very good one is Derren Brown's Seance, where a bunch of people manage to contact the spirit of a woman, (via automatic writing, ouija board, and other means) who is actually alive and well, and sitting in a car outside.

No need for the apology. I respect your opinion. But based on my experiences I must disagree. If my wife's friend appeared in person pushing the planchette & we recorded non believers would still disbelieve it to be fair. Can you explain the energy I felt pushing against my hand even after all the others present removed their hands simultaneously?? I'm sure you'll say it was my imagination or something. Well at on stage none of them had their hands on it, neither did I. My hand was about 2 inches away & it still moved. It moved 2 or so inches away from my finger hence my anti magnetic explanation earlier?? I'm sure even though you weren't here in my house you'll have an "explanation".

kylith

kevap wrote: »

No need for the apology. I respect your opinion. But based on my experiences I must disagree. If my wife's friend appeared in person pushing the planchette & we recorded non believers would still disbelieve it to be fair. Can you explain the energy I felt pushing against my hand even after all the others present removed their hands simultaneously?? I'm sure you'll say it was my imagination or something. Well at on stage none of them had their hands on it, neither did I. My hand was about 2 inches away & it still moved. It moved 2 or so inches away from my finger hence my anti magnetic explanation earlier?? I'm sure even though you weren't here in my house you'll have an "explanation".

Feeling 'energy'; yes, you were probably imagining it. As for the planchette moving by itself, without you being able to actually prove that that happened, via video evidence, I can only assume that you are, at best, mistaken, or being tricked by someone who actually did have a magnet under the table to control the planchette or, at worst, fibbing. But I'm sure you wouldn't intentionally mislead us.

kevap

kylith wrote: »

Feeling 'energy'; yes, you were probably imagining it. As for the planchette moving by itself, without you being able to actually prove that that happened, via video evidence, I can only assume that you are, at best, mistaken, or being tricked by someone who actually did have a magnet under the table to control the planchette or, at worst, fibbing. But I'm sure you wouldn't intentionally mislead us.

Sorry, but wasn't imagining it. The table was glass so could see right through it. The planchette was also glass & last time I heard magnets don't work that way. It would had to have a magnetic span of 2 feet for someone to do that even so. Why oh why would I be bothered lying? I never shared my experience on here to force my opinions on you. You responded to me remember?! With regards video evidence, I have evidence from the second night - last night. Unfortunately it was the night where responses weren't nearly as good but we still got good responses. The main ones being aimed at the ex boyfriend. This could go on all night. You were not here so haven't a clue, end of!! Maybe you're fibbing cause you just don't wanna be proven wrong?! I was a non believer like you. Only way to find out is to round up 3 or 4 of your most trusted family or friends to do it. All of you would need to be serious & honest in doing it. Try it for 1 hour minimum. I will be astounded if no movement happens by 45 minutes in. Took 30 mins in both our attempts. Come back to me then..

Ziycon

Everything that was seen or experienced in this incident can be explained by a mixture of confirmation bias, strong emotions over a loved one who was lost under unexpected and tragic circumstances and the Ideomotor effect.

I respect what you're saying kevap and I do believe what you and the others experienced did happen but it was all created by yourselves and you all reinforced your belief in what you experienced with a form of collective hysteria.

No matter how accurate the answers given back to specific question were I wouldn't use that as a sign of anything paranormal. It's very common in the paranormal world for people to forget all the negative responses or replies over the single one that seemed to be relevant or correct. You could ask 100 questions and only one comes back correct but the majority of people will hold onto that one correct instance, something along the lines of the false-consensus effect.

If your interested in the paranormal by all means explore it but be careful what you believe as it can have more damage then you may think when nothing paranormal is actually happening.

kevap

That's 3 of you giving 3 different explanations of what happened, some of what the 3 of you say is similar but some is different.
My experience / story is staying the same - if this was in court you'd all lose or we'd have it thrown out at worst for me.
You are wasting your time trying to convince me i imagined it.
Look, can you see wind?
Can you see energy?
Can you see black mass?
Can you see farts?
No? So how do we know they are there?
Now back you go to wikipedia.
I know what 6 of us saw in total between the two nights.
The first night was amazing.
Last night was ok.
80 - 90% right answers on night 1.
Maybe 60% right last night.
I never met the girl as she died before i met my wife.
You can give all different theories every time but i'll say / ask again: What did i feel between me & the glass which seemed to make the glass move on its own?
How did the glass move in circles while static on the table?
Our fingers remained in place hovering maybe a quarter of an inch or more away?
It's sad you have closed minds.
Wasn't the old speed of light theory only disproved just last year?
Wasn't that tested & researched almost to death over the last century & more by the greatest scientists the world has ever known?
What if they had spent their time, money & brain power on the paranormal over the past century?
Maybe, just maybe they could have disproved what people such as yourself believe today?!
I didn't believe until last week myself.
Don't just read about it, go out & try it.
Not just once or twice.
Years ago when i was 18 or 19 some friends & i tried doing it in my parents home.
Nobody came through until suddenly the glass went mental (caught one of my "friends" pushing it).
Same last night, told the lad to get away from the table.
I wanted to try it to disprove paranormal activity in my house as my wife's mother was trying to convince us it was her mother.
All i did was prove to ourselves that something unseen by the eye is there.
And that is a fact!!
I'd never say i'm a 100% believer as that's just plain stupid but i'm 90 - 95%.
Now save your invisible energy & sdtop trying to make out we imagined it.
You couldn't possibly know.
Get in touch with your local paranormal investigators in your area.
They might take you out on a hunt.
Bet you'd be convinced then.

Ziycon

I never said you imagined any of it, I was simply giving examples of what can explain what you experienced.

I've seen more then enough paranormal incidents and can assure you, you'd be very suprised how real some of them can be and then explained away by some investigation.

I merely offered a possible answer, thats all.

kylith

The three of us are giving slightly different answers because we weren’t there, so we haven’t had the opportunity to examine what happened that night first hand. Plus, you keep adding in more information. First the glass moves by itself, well, I’ve already explained how it doesn’t, but then it was ‘moving about two inches’, now it’s spinning around in circles on the tabletop with no-one touching it. This is something that can be seen a lot; when an explanation is offered for an event suddenly the claimant remembers that actually something a lot more exciting happened (“Well, when I said it fell off the table, it actually flew three feet up into the air, hovered there for 10 minutes, and flew across the room. Explain that with your gravity”, but I’m being facetious now). There’s never any further proof offered though, we’re just supposed to say “Oh, well, how could I possibly disprove that? If you say it happened then I have no option but to take your word as unvarnished truth; regardless of lack of actual evidence, like video, or even us knowing how much you’d had to drink that night.”

Just because something can’t be seen doesn’t mean that we take it on faith that it exists: energy can be measured with the proper instrumentation. Farts are easily detectable. By Dark Mass I presume you’re talking about Dark Matter? While scientists haven’t been able to get a jam jar full of it or anything, there is plenty of evidence to corroborate its existence. However, if their calculations turn out to be wrong, and pay attention to this bit: they will accept that they are wrong and start work on another way to explain the universe that better fits the evidence. This is the complete opposite of paranormal ‘experts’, and even dabblers who have a tendency to, basically, stick their fingers in their ears and shout ‘La,la,la’ when they are told the reasons behind planchettes moving, or ‘weird feelings’, or whatever.

Have you looked into the evidence that disproves the ouija board and explains how it works, as I suggested you do? Have you conducted your own experiments, as I suggested, to see if the planchette really was moving by itself or not? Was the information that ‘no-one could have known’ actually information that it was impossible for anyone at the table to have even an inkling of? Have you verified it independently? Is it even something that can be verified independently, or was it just a statement about someone who was deceased that can’t be verified?

Believe it or not, I used to believe in ghosts, aliens, the whole shebang. Then I started reading; I read about the mind and how wonderful it is, and how easily fooled. I read about the ingenious methods that psychics and mediums came up with to part gullible people from their money. I read about the development of the Ouija board, and how it went from a parlour game, where everyone understood that it was simply a method of tapping into ones subconscious, to a method for contacting the dead, about an hundred years ago; co-incidentally right around the time that people were losing their loved ones in WWI. I have also learned that some of the most closed minds you’ll come across belong to paranormal proponents, because the purveyors have a vested interest in keeping the punters coming, and their clients are often very emotionally invested in their sessions and readings. I suggest you read my sig, that’s what my views are these days. And don’t forget; if you open your mind too much, your brain could fall out

kevap

kylith wrote: »

The three of us are giving slightly different answers because we weren’t there, so we haven’t had the opportunity to examine what happened that night first hand. Plus, you keep adding in more information. First the glass moves by itself, well, I’ve already explained how it doesn’t, but then it was ‘moving about two inches’, now it’s spinning around in circles on the tabletop with no-one touching it. This is something that can be seen a lot; when an explanation is offered for an event suddenly the claimant remembers that actually something a lot more exciting happened (“Well, when I said it fell off the table, it actually flew three feet up into the air, hovered there for 10 minutes, and flew across the room. Explain that with your gravity”, but I’m being facetious now). There’s never any further proof offered though, we’re just supposed to say “Oh, well, how could I possibly disprove that? If you say it happened then I have no option but to take your word as unvarnished truth; regardless of lack of actual evidence, like video, or even us knowing how much you’d had to drink that night.”

Just because something can’t be seen doesn’t mean that we take it on faith that it exists: energy can be measured with the proper instrumentation. Farts are easily detectable. By Dark Mass I presume you’re talking about Dark Matter? While scientists haven’t been able to get a jam jar full of it or anything, there is plenty of evidence to corroborate its existence. However, if their calculations turn out to be wrong, and pay attention to this bit: they will accept that they are wrong and start work on another way to explain the universe that better fits the evidence. This is the complete opposite of paranormal ‘experts’, and even dabblers who have a tendency to, basically, stick their fingers in their ears and shout ‘La,la,la’ when they are told the reasons behind planchettes moving, or ‘weird feelings’, or whatever.

Have you looked into the evidence that disproves the ouija board and explains how it works, as I suggested you do? Have you conducted your own experiments, as I suggested, to see if the planchette really was moving by itself or not? Was the information that ‘no-one could have known’ actually information that it was impossible for anyone at the table to have even an inkling of? Have you verified it independently? Is it even something that can be verified independently, or was it just a statement about someone who was deceased that can’t be verified?

Believe it or not, I used to believe in ghosts, aliens, the whole shebang. Then I started reading; I read about the mind and how wonderful it is, and how easily fooled. I read about the ingenious methods that psychics and mediums came up with to part gullible people from their money. I read about the development of the Ouija board, and how it went from a parlour game, where everyone understood that it was simply a method of tapping into ones subconscious, to a method for contacting the dead, about an hundred years ago; co-incidentally right around the time that people were losing their loved ones in WWI. I have also learned that some of the most closed minds you’ll come across belong to paranormal proponents, because the purveyors have a vested interest in keeping the punters coming, and their clients are often very emotionally invested in their sessions and readings. I suggest you read my sig, that’s what my views are these days. And don’t forget; if you open your mind too much, your brain could fall out

I would write the whole story in one long account but who'd wanna read that?! Just like I stopped reading your post after the first paragraph. I know what I experienced & that's all that matters to me! Your opinion is irrelevant - you weren't there! It really is that simple. You seem so determined to prove me wrong or to be a fibber? But yet, you do not know me. Quite sad but my offer still stands. If you're in the Munster area, if my wife is happy to do it again & if we can have a 4th person there to be an independent witness its fine with me, but I'm sure even if a "spirit" turned up in a physical form you'd find an answer. Otherwise conversation over..

kevap

Ziycon wrote: »

I never said you imagined any of it, I was simply giving examples of what can explain what you experienced.

I've seen more then enough paranormal incidents and can assure you, you'd be very suprised how real some of them can be and then explained away by some investigation.

I merely offered a possible answer, thats all.

Wasn't talking to you mate.
Sorry for any confusion - probably my fault..

kevap

kylith wrote: »

The three of us are giving slightly different answers because we weren’t there, so we haven’t had the opportunity to examine what happened that night first hand. Plus, you keep adding in more information. First the glass moves by itself, well, I’ve already explained how it doesn’t, but then it was ‘moving about two inches’, now it’s spinning around in circles on the tabletop with no-one touching it. This is something that can be seen a lot; when an explanation is offered for an event suddenly the claimant remembers that actually something a lot more exciting happened (“Well, when I said it fell off the table, it actually flew three feet up into the air, hovered there for 10 minutes, and flew across the room. Explain that with your gravity”, but I’m being facetious now). There’s never any further proof offered though, we’re just supposed to say “Oh, well, how could I possibly disprove that? If you say it happened then I have no option but to take your word as unvarnished truth; regardless of lack of actual evidence, like video, or even us knowing how much you’d had to drink that night.”

Just because something can’t be seen doesn’t mean that we take it on faith that it exists: energy can be measured with the proper instrumentation. Farts are easily detectable. By Dark Mass I presume you’re talking about Dark Matter? While scientists haven’t been able to get a jam jar full of it or anything, there is plenty of evidence to corroborate its existence. However, if their calculations turn out to be wrong, and pay attention to this bit: they will accept that they are wrong and start work on another way to explain the universe that better fits the evidence. This is the complete opposite of paranormal ‘experts’, and even dabblers who have a tendency to, basically, stick their fingers in their ears and shout ‘La,la,la’ when they are told the reasons behind planchettes moving, or ‘weird feelings’, or whatever.

Have you looked into the evidence that disproves the ouija board and explains how it works, as I suggested you do? Have you conducted your own experiments, as I suggested, to see if the planchette really was moving by itself or not? Was the information that ‘no-one could have known’ actually information that it was impossible for anyone at the table to have even an inkling of? Have you verified it independently? Is it even something that can be verified independently, or was it just a statement about someone who was deceased that can’t be verified?

Believe it or not, I used to believe in ghosts, aliens, the whole shebang. Then I started reading; I read about the mind and how wonderful it is, and how easily fooled. I read about the ingenious methods that psychics and mediums came up with to part gullible people from their money. I read about the development of the Ouija board, and how it went from a parlour game, where everyone understood that it was simply a method of tapping into ones subconscious, to a method for contacting the dead, about an hundred years ago; co-incidentally right around the time that people were losing their loved ones in WWI. I have also learned that some of the most closed minds you’ll come across belong to paranormal proponents, because the purveyors have a vested interest in keeping the punters coming, and their clients are often very emotionally invested in their sessions and readings. I suggest you read my sig, that’s what my views are these days. And don’t forget; if you open your mind too much, your brain could fall out

Have to disagree there with your last comment.
Isn't your mind within your brain??
Interesting theory you have there - like most of the others
Yes, by the way I read the rest of your post in the end.
I have read up on Ouija board theories.
And other theories to explain even the most concrete of paranormal evidence.
But these theories may have been written by biased people such as yourself. I've also read theories in favour of paranormal incidents being real. I wouldn't necessarily believe any of the theories. Fact is sometimes stranger than fiction. I only believe in what I see & I have seen..
Please don't make the novice error of believing everything you read by "experts".
That's a catastrophic error for fact!
Now I'm off out to buy The Sun

Myrddin

With the fullest respect to anyones belief in it, this is the unfortunate truth:

It is a registered trademark of Hasbro Inc. which markets and distributes the Ouija Board as part of its line of board games.

Following its commercial introduction by businessman Elijah Bond on July 1, 1890 the Ouija board was regarded as a harmless parlor game unrelated to the occult until American Spiritualist Pearl Curran popularized its use as a divining tool during World War I.

While Ouija believers feel the paranormal or supernatural is responsible for Ouija's action, it is parsimoniously explained by unconscious movements of those controlling the pointer, a psychophysiological phenomenon known as the ideomotor effect.

Despite being repeatedly debunked by the efforts of the scientific community and denounced as a tool of Satan by conservative Christians, Ouija remains popular among many people

Source

Its a man made object, connected to the occult by the word of a 'Spiritualist' about 80 years ago.

maccored

I read this and it reminded me of the ideomotor effect:

"describes a phenomenon, but it doesn’t really give any reason for why it happens. This is a common trick of psychologists, to pretend they solved a riddle of the human mind by giving it a name, when all they've done is invented an agreed upon name for the mystery rather than solved it."

Bit like the word 'coincidence'.

Can anyone explain exactly how the ideomotor effect actually works? Forget the subconcious muscle spasms considering people claim glasses move easily around the place - any indepth explainations on how exactly it can make people move glasses around when barely touching them?

For the record, I dont think an ouija board is anything more than a game, but it could easily be a point of focus as pointed out earlier in this thread. I just hate seeing copied and pasted terms being used with no actual proper understanding of what they mean (Occam's razor is another)

getz

the ouija board,on the8th july 1913, a pearl curran,a st louis homemaker was persuaded by her friend emily hutchinson to try a ouija board,when she did a name patience worth came through, this turned out to be the beginning of an avalance of information over a period of five years.mrs curran produced 2,500 poems ,short stories and plays,and six full-length novels,all allegedly authored by patience worth ,who claimed to be a seventeenth century english woman,