Micheala Hartes murder, suspects caught

FreudianSlippers

aDeener wrote: »

course you do, you're in the legal profession aren't you?

Yeah, but I don't do criminal law much... if ever.

I don't see how you'd have to be in the legal profession to understand the difference between empathy and sympathy.

Vanbis

OisinT wrote: »

Yeah, but I don't do criminal law much... if ever.

I don't see how you'd have to be in the legal profession to understand the difference between empathy and sympathy.

Zero sympathy for the three accused. They knew well what they were doing and god knows how many more they have robbed who have stayed at the resort. They will get what they deserve.

FreudianSlippers

Vanbis wrote: »

Zero sympathy for the three accused. They knew well what they were doing and god knows how many more they have robbed who have stayed at the resort. They will get what they deserve.

I don't sympathise with the accused.

We don't know the full story yet. It's possible that Michaela McAreavey attacked the intruder and he acted in self-defence.
I have empathy for most "murderers" in general because many of them have had no other chance in life.

These guys obviously had good-ish jobs and were either habitually stealing from rooms... or maybe this was the first one!?
All we know is that someone killed this woman - we don't know why and we don't know for sure that these are the guys.

tbh

OisinT wrote: »

I also apologise for being crass and suggesting it was the husband. I was really only trying to state that I thought it was murder and (was correct) that the husband would be a suspect in the case it was murder..

Fair play. I apologise for blowing up at you.

x in the city

x in the city wrote: »

idiot spelling poilice, can you restrain from correcting spellings on AH

thank you, there is a superior english forum somewhere i am sure

There is a poor dead girl, a thread about her in a busy forum, we could at least have enough respect for her to get her name right.
You'd be up in arms if someone misspelled your name. I'm not just being pedantic for the hell of it.

LizT

Horrible thing to happen to anyone, especially on her honeymoon.

My thoughts and prayers are with her family and husband, I can't begin to even imagine what they're going through.

thebigleap

There are a few possibilites why these guys confessed so quickly:

They were full of remorse and wanted to get it out of their systems. Especially as it wasn't premediated (allegedly). A smooth talking cop could easily persuade them that it would go easier on them if they confessed instead of dragging out the investigation.
OR
One of them 'hung' the other two so now it was a case of revealing the truth to protect themselves from other allegations (which one killed her and what were the roles of the other two).
OR
Maybe they were beaten to force a confession. But once they all have lawyers for trial, wouldn't that be revealed to the public, and damage the prosecution's case?

Assuming they're guilty I don't feel sorry for these guys at all; whatever the circumstances, murder is murder. They made a terrible choice and now they have to suffer the consequences.

There's that saying ''you made your bed....''

Vanbis

OisinT wrote: »

I don't sympathise with the accused.

We don't know the full story yet. It's possible that Michaela McAreavey attacked the intruder and he acted in self-defence.
I have empathy for most "murderers" in general because many of them have had no other chance in life.

These guys obviously had good-ish jobs and were either habitually stealing from rooms... or maybe this was the first one!?
All we know is that someone killed this woman - we don't know why and we don't know for sure that these are the guys.

I didn't mean to quote your post, i wasn't having a go at you incase you think i was.

I agree we don't know why she was killed and if anything was stolen but she was strangled, it was no accident.

FreudianSlippers

thebigleap wrote: »

Assuming they're guilty I don't feel sorry for these guys at all; whatever the circumstances, murder is murder. They made a terrible choice and now they have to suffer the consequences.

Murder is not always murder. There are many factors which influence the decision.

Self-defence, etc.

fedor.2.

OisinT wrote: »

Murder is not always murder. There are many factors which influence the decision.

Self-defence, etc.

She attacked the three of them first is it

bmarley

efb wrote: »

Interesting that the barrister (of the only one that had legal repersentation) allege his client was beaten in the police cell. The judge allowed him to be taken for medical examination.

This all seems very swift, and the suspects looked terrified.

A swift conviction I believe would benefit no one except the country's tourism industry...

Yes, I have to agree with you there...hope they have got the right person/s. As an active member of Amnesty International, I am all aware of miscarriages of justice. For the people who would say that they would prefer to take a beating than to confess to something they didn't do (whatever crime may be) should remind themselves of some miscarriages of justice such as the case of the Guildford four or the Birmingham six. In some case, people are guilty until they can prove themselves to be innocent and may have been in the wrong place at the wrong time. This country relies heavily on tourism and therefore would want some one blamed for this as soon as possible. These men deserve a fair trial and proper representation. Sincere condolences to all Michaela's family R.I.P.

thebigleap

OisinT wrote: »

We don't know the full story yet. It's possible that Michaela McAreavey attacked the intruder and he acted in self-defence.

There were three men in the room, if Michaela attacked them, surely three of them could have subdued her without resorting to murder? I can see self-defence if he thrown her against the wall and slammed her head, but strangling someone to protect yourself when you have 'backup' in the room? Not buying it.

Again this is assuming that they did it, of course.

FreudianSlippers

fedor.2. wrote: »

She attacked the three of them first is it

Well, not all 3 of them are actually being charged with murder.

I'm just saying that anything is possible at this point. We don't know the full story.
We have an accused confessing he strangled her in the room when she caught him robbing her which was extracted, allegedly, through beating/torture.

Flimsy to say the least.

As for the other guy being charged with murder, he's probably being charged as an accessory or as being part of the "common design" - I have no idea why. It doesn't sound like he was in the room and we really have no other information regarding him.

I'm not in a position to make a comment really on anyone other than saying that we don't know that there will be no defence for the 2 charged with murder.

FreudianSlippers

thebigleap wrote: »

There were three men in the room, if Michaela attacked them, surely three of them could have subdued her without resorting to murder? I can see self-defence if he thrown her against the wall and slammed her head, but strangling someone to protect yourself when you have 'backup' in the room? Not buying it.

Again this is assuming that they did it, of course.

It could be that I missed that part of the story, but I don't think all 3 of them were in the room...

thebigleap

OisinT wrote: »

It could be that I missed that part of the story, but I don't think all 3 of them were in the room...

In the news article I read, it states:

'Her killers gained access using a false electronic key card two minutes before she entered room 1025 at 3.44pm. '

But further down, it says:
"I suspect the guy was in trying to rob and the lady caught him red-handed. I'm just guessing," the Commissioner later told RTE Radio. '

So yeah, confusing.

But since two were convicted of murder wouldn't that mean that two people were in the room at the time of the murder? You're a lawyer, right? To your knowledge, is there any other reason why the second guy would be charged with such a serious crime if he wasn't actually there?

It also states in the news item that more arrests could be imminent.....!

http://tinyurl.com/6yba2jf

ETA: I just saw your reply to fedor.2, thanks.

coonecb1

I say take the murdering bast*rds that did it, put them in the Tyrone dressing room and lock the door from the outside.

R.I.P. Micheala

FreudianSlippers

thebigleap wrote: »

In the news article I read, it states:

'Her killers gained access using a false electronic key card two minutes before she entered room 1025 at 3.44pm. '

But further down, it says:
"I suspect the guy was in trying to rob and the lady caught him red-handed. I'm just guessing," the Commissioner later told RTE Radio. '

So yeah, confusing.

But since two were convicted of murder wouldn't that mean that two people were in the room at the time of the murder? You're a lawyer, right? To your knowledge, is there any other reason why the second guy would be charged with such a serious crime if he wasn't actually there?

It also states in the news item that more arrests could be imminent.....!

http://tinyurl.com/6yba2jf

ETA: I just saw your reply to fedor.2, thanks.

AFAIK the police have arrested 2 of them on suspicion of murder and one on suspicion of accessory to murder. We don't know if the DPP there will actually see there is enough evidence to charge them all with murder, etc.

If one actually did the murder, the other could be charged with murder but it's unlikely.
What's more likely is that they had 2 suspects they arrested on suspicion of murder.

fedor.2.

coonecb1 wrote: »

I say take the murdering bast*rds that did it, put them in the Tyrone dressing room and lock the door from the outside.

R.I.P. Micheala

:rolleyes:

Jesus Wept

thebigleap wrote: »

http://tinyurl.com/6yba2jf

Dhun Rampersad, the Mauritius Police Commissioner, said the suspects had denied the claims.
He over the past three years, no murder in Mauritius has remained unresolved.

Tells it's own story.

Eoin

OisinT wrote: »

I also apologise for being crass and suggesting it was the husband. I was really only trying to state that I thought it was murder and (was correct) that the husband would be a suspect in the case it was murder.
I'm glad the husband was cleared of this crime and I'm glad that the people responsible for this crime have been caught and are being prosecuted.

If he didn't have a cast-iron alibi, he could still be the primary suspect now - as if he wouldn't already be going through enough.

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Just heard on the news that one of the accused complained of being beaten, he has some nerve, i hope they get beaten senseless.

Yeah, just like those guilty Guildford 4 bastards, right? Remember, they confessed as well... Without knowing much more than what's been posted in this thread, I think they probably do have the right people in custody; but beating them senseless doesn't really add much.

jugger0

I hope they hang the bastards, absolute human filth.

FreudianSlippers

jugger0 wrote: »

I hope they hang the bastards, absolute human filth.

Mauritius hasn't had the death penalty since 1995.

Dionysus

Coming home today I saw one of those Evening Herald guys standing in the middle of the road holding that rag. Its title?

Michaela: killers caught

Guilty until proven innocent, it would appear. Awful, awful, awful journalism.

Ar dheis Dé go raibh a h-anam dílis.

Dudess

OisinT wrote: »

I feel sorry for murderers every day. To have such little value in human life is something that is so inhuman and often stems from such awful upbringings that I believe society should feel sorry for these people.

Wouldn't agree with that. I'm certainly not an advocate of "Torture/kill the scum!" and just because a person puts a bit of critical thought into things doesn't mean they're a "bleeding heart", but many murderers don't deserve any sympathy. That said, I've no doubt many awful deeds committed against others stem from equally awful upbringings, but these don't excuse their crimes, even if they explain them. There are people with horrible upbringings who would never do those things. Some folks are just bad, cruel people with full responsibility for what they're doing.

Jesus Wept

Dionysus wrote: »

Coming home today I saw one of those Evening Herald guys standing in the middle of the road holding that rag. Its title?

Michaela: killers caught

Guilty until proven innocent, it would appear. Awful, awful, awful journalism.

Ar dheis Dé go raibh a h-anam dílis.

wow. I didn't think there new depths for the herald to plunge to but they keep surprising me.

Did you get a picture/screenshot of this?

FreudianSlippers

Dudess wrote: »

Wouldn't agree with that. I'm certainly not an advocate of "Torture/kill the scum!" and just because a person puts a bit of critical thought into things doesn't mean they're a "bleeding heart", but many murderers don't deserve any sympathy. That said, I've no doubt many awful deeds committed against others stem from equally awful upbringings, but these don't excuse their crimes, even if they explain them. There are people with horrible upbringings who would never do those things. Some folks are just bad, cruel people with full responsibility for what they're doing.

I agree... I don't empathise with them all. I certainly don't have sympathy for many, if any.

BettePorter

scorpioishere wrote: »

With all the rich people that goes there, they could easily steal from them if they want to but do you not find it strange they choose only Michaela to kill. Anyway they had option to steal but everything was still there. She was the first tourist to be killed on that island. May be somebody who hates her or her father, plan her death.

no but that was the point.......having staged the bath scenario to look like suicide /accident they couldn't take anything even had they wanted to !
IT could have been as simple a fact as they saw the couple the night before in the hotel bar with big money ( they having just got married sometimes ppl give cash toward the honeymoon by way of a gift) i don't know what the currency is in Maurituis but i imagine it wouldn't take many pounds / euro to equal big bucks there ! I really don't think there can be any conspiracy here......i think it was what it was.....A simple twist of fate combined with common day scum !

I'm shocked at how i well up when i see / think of this story........ the details are so tragic i can't fathom how the family are coping.....so many lives ruined for the sake of a few minutes.

There are so many elements to it, not least the whole honeymoon thing. Had it been an average holidaymaker we probably would have gone, 'jesus thats shocking ' but not had the reaction we've had. I think a big part of it is the photos we see of her taken only days ago at her most beautiful, expectant of the joy of her honeymoon never mind the rest of her life, her children, her home etc. and the horrible thing is , these are the photos her family will recall for the rest of their lives.

How horrible to think that out of all the thousands of places you can pick to choose for your honeymoon......your final decision can change so much so cruelly.

Dionysus

The-Rigger wrote: »

wow. I didn't think there new depths for the herald to plunge to but they keep surprising me.

Did you get a picture/screenshot of this?

No; I checked Herald.ie before posting and for some strange reason they don't have the front page of their print edition on the site, as far as I can see.

midlandsmissus

Dudess wrote: »

Wouldn't agree with that. I'm certainly not an advocate of "Torture/kill the scum!" and just because a person puts a bit of critical thought into things doesn't mean they're a "bleeding heart", but many murderers don't deserve any sympathy. That said, I've no doubt many awful deeds committed against others stem from equally awful upbringings, but these don't excuse their crimes, even if they explain them. There are people with horrible upbringings who would never do those things. Some folks are just bad, cruel people with full responsibility for what they're doing.

Dudess it's a strange old world. Hopefully Michaela is at peace wherever she is.
Was anyone considering writing to Mickey Harte?
Just that I only recently read Gloria Hunniford's book about her daughter Caron's death, and she said all the letters she got off strangers kept her going through the first awful days.

x in the city

Dudess wrote: »

Wouldn't agree with that. I'm certainly not an advocate of "Torture/kill the scum!" and just because a person puts a bit of critical thought into things doesn't mean they're a "bleeding heart", but many murderers don't deserve any sympathy. That said, I've no doubt many awful deeds committed against others stem from equally awful upbringings, but these don't excuse their crimes, even if they explain them. There are people with horrible upbringings who would never do those things. Some folks are just bad, cruel people with full responsibility for what they're doing.

bad cruel people, but not sure about the responsibility, i am not a shrink but the type of people who do this stuff have no morals or dont know right from wrong, the responsibility to them of killing a harmless newlywed woman is the same responsibility they have when they knock back a beer

Dionysus

Michaela's death seems to be widely reported across the anglophone world at least.

A quick google and it's on CNN, AOL, BBC, Boston Globe, The Australian and the Mail&Guardian (South Africa), to take a sample.

aDeener

OisinT wrote: »

Mauritius hasn't had the death penalty since 1995.

shame

PrettyBoy

Absolutely tragic news, thoughts and prayers are with her family and husband.

aidan24326

OisinT wrote: »

I feel sorry for murderers every day. To have such little value in human life is something that is so inhuman and often stems from such awful upbringings that I believe society should feel sorry for these people.

This 'awful upbringing' mommy didn't love me sh1te is ridiculously overplayed at this stage. Sure there are some guys who get a raw deal in life and maybe never had much of a chance, but every time anyone commits a serious crime now be it murder or rape we get the inevitable spiel about their bad upbringing, their drug-addict father etc etc

Like that's an excuse for anything? Plenty of people have bad upbringings and never do anything wrong, let alone commit murder. A bad upbringing can only feed into an already pre-existing propensity for sociopathic behaviour.

OisinT wrote: »

As for the other guy being charged with murder, he's probably being charged as an accessory or as being part of the "common design" - I have no idea why. It doesn't sound like he was in the room and we really have no other information regarding him.

I'm sure I saw it reported that a copied key card was used to gain access to the room. Maybe the guy being charged with accessory facilitated the copying of a master key card or something like that? Or perhaps he helped them dump her body in the bath and then failed to report any wrongdoing even though he was aware of the murder. Wouldn't that in itself make him an accessory?

And self-defence can be safely ruled out in this case, surely.

newmember2

jugger0 wrote: »

I hope they hang the bastards, absolute human filth.

Yeh, not like you at all, being so full of love and virtue.

aDeener

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Dudess it's a strange old world. Hopefully Michaela is at peace wherever she is.
Was anyone considering writing to Mickey Harte?
Just that I only recently read Gloria Hunniford's book about her daughter Caron's death, and she said all the letters she got off strangers kept her going through the first awful days.

i really hope you aren't considering writing to him. i don't think your opinions would be of much comfort to him

newmember2

aDeener wrote: »

i really hope you aren't considering writing to him. i don't think your opinions would be of much comfort to him

I'd say he'd appreciate her comments above some of the hate-filled ****e posted here by ****ing half-wits.

aDeener

newmember? wrote: »

I'd say he'd appreciate her comments above some of the hate-filled ****e posted here by ****ing half-wits.

i somehow doubt a father after having a daughter murdered would appreciate hearing of sympathy for the murderers......

Dionysus

aDeener wrote: »

i really hope you aren't considering writing to him. i don't think your opinions would be of much comfort to him

Why bother bringing this unnecessary bile into this thread? There's a time and a place. And this isn't it.

aDeener

Dionysus wrote: »

Why bother bringing this unnecessary bile into this thread? There's a time and a place. And this isn't it.

how is it bile??

Dionysus

aDeener wrote: »

how is it bile??

Re-read it.

Dionysus

aDeener wrote: »

i somehow doubt a father after having a daughter murdered would appreciate hearing of sympathy for the murderers......

And the murderers are who, exactly?

Dionysus

aDeener wrote: »

shame

Or, rather, no shame.

Common as...

aidan24326 wrote: »

This 'awful upbringing' mommy didn't love me sh1te is ridiculously overplayed at this stage. Sure there are some guys who get a raw deal in life and maybe never had much of a chance, but every time anyone commits a serious crime now be it murder or rape we get the inevitable spiel about their bad upbringing, their drug-addict father etc etc

Like that's an excuse for anything? Plenty of people have bad upbringings and never do anything wrong, let alone commit murder. A bad upbringing can only feed into an already pre-existing propensity for sociopathic behaviour.

So how many do you know of who had a good upbringing and commited crimes like this

aDeener

Dionysus wrote: »

And the murderers are who, exactly?

i would hazard a guess that they are the people who admitted to it

Dionysus

aDeener wrote: »

i would hazard a guess that they are the people who admitted to it

And this "admission" has been confirmed and examined in a court of law, where they have been found guilty of 'murder' ('unlawful killing') after due process?
Or is this 'admission' based on a claim from a Mauritian police department which is under pressure?

jugger0

I have a PhD wrote: »

Only human filth would suggest taking a persons life by hanging. We don't even know what happened, or who was responsible yet.

Well i think they should hang the person who killed her, maybe some day an escaped criminal or even one realised early for good behaviour, a murderer or rapist, will do something to a family member of yours and you might change your tune then.

aDeener

Dionysus wrote: »

And this "admission" has been confirmed and examined in a court of law, where they have been found guilty of 'murder' ('unlawful killing') after due process?
Or is this 'admission' based on a claim from a Mauritian police department which is under pressure?

if these aren't the ones who done it i'll gladly eat a dish of humble pie.

aidan24326

Common as... wrote: »

So how many do you know of who had a good upbringing and commited crimes like this

That's really not the point. In any case we know nothing of the background or upbringing of the accused, for all we know they had a perfectly normal childhood. They don't have a history of crime and violence anyway (at least not that anyone knows about) and this could have started out as petty crime that just got way way out of hand, and their (allegedly) being high on coke wouldn't have helped.

aDeener wrote: »

I would hazard a guess that they are the people who admitted to it

Probably, but nothing is proven yet. I really hope the police have got the right people here and that it isn't a stitch-up job to save face. Just because someone confesses to a crime doesn't automatically imply guilt, there have been many examples in the past of police beating confessions out of people**, and the Mauritian police are under pressure to solve this due to the negative publicity it's attracting for their country.

**not saying that's what the Mauritius police have done, just that it happens

aDeener

aidan24326 wrote: »

That's really not the point. In any case we know nothing of the background or upbringing of the accused, for all we know they had a perfectly normal childhood. They don't have a history of crime and violence anyway (at least not that anyone knows about) and this could have started out as petty crime that just got way way out of hand, and their (allegedly) being high on coke wouldn't have helped.




Probably, but nothing is proven yet. I really hope the police have got the right people here and that it isn't a stitch-up job to save face. Just because someone confesses to a crime doesn't automatically imply guilt, there have been many examples in the past of police beating confessions out of people**, and the Mauritian police are under pressure to solve this due to the negative publicity it's attracting for their country.

**not saying that's what the Mauritius police have done, just that it happens

i'm aware of that, but the vast majority of admissions hold true