Advertising now allowed?

Tallon

KamiKazi wrote: »

From the Boards TOU.

It clearly prohibits using Boards.ie to advertise, irregardless of whether that is why you signed up or not.

Then your signature is in violation

KamiKazi

Tallon wrote: »

Then your signature is in violation

Nope, as the forum in my signature isn't a commercial forum.

Jazzy

LoLth wrote: »

nope, its one rule for all "Dont take from the community until you've contributed to it". Doesnt matter if I like someone or not whether a user is allowed advertise an event or function is purely based on their contributions up to the time of the request.

that makes sense. I suppose i didnt really think about it in this context as its the same with LANs and stuff

Spear

KamiKazi wrote: »

From the Boards TOU.

It clearly prohibits using Boards.ie to advertise, irregardless of whether that is why you signed up or not.

You're overlooking the word unauthorised.

-Chris-

nompere wrote: »

I think it is most refreshing that this is being discussed in public rather than in a private conversation between a group of mods.

But again, I'm curious about what's being discussed. If the mods haven't discussed it and come to a decision, then how and why can you start a thread that criticises that decision?

And what's your issue with mods having a private conversation, as long as the decisions they come to are reasonable and for the benefit of the community?

KamiKazi

The mods made the decision by leaving it there.

If there was any doubt as to whether it should be allowed to stay they would have pulled it until they had discussed it and come to a decision.

-Chris-

Fair point, I've locked it now and will leave it locked until I get a consensus from the other Motors mods. I haven't deleted it as it would leave your thread here without a context.

I probably should have locked it earlier, I didn't think of it at the time.

Steve

KamiKazi wrote: »

The mods made the decision by leaving it there.

On that point: unless it's a very quiet forum (which motors is not) the mods can't be expected to read or even be aware of every thread that is posted so what you said is a bit unfair on them.
This is a community site and mods rely a lot on the community to report stuff that is out of order.
I can only speak from personal experience but between boards and adverts I'd typically read between 20 and 50 reports every day. Each report requires some thinking about to decide how best to act - some are clear cut, others are borderline and take more time to ponder.
The point I'm making is, if the thread was not reported and brought to the attention of the mods then they can't really be accused of any shortcomings by 'leaving it there'.

-Chris-

That seems like a very fair explanation tbh.

KamiKazi

OK so advertising is allowed as long as you're a contributing member of the forum.

Thanks for clearing that up.

-Chris-

I'd probably be happier if the accepted rule was along the lines of

"Advertising is banned.

In certain circumstances moderators may use their discretion and allow an established poster to advertise a service, product or event if the moderators feel it is of benefit to the community."

Tallon

Spamvertising is banned

If someone established asks a mod and is given the nod, I don't see an issue

KamiKazi

-Chris- wrote: »

"Advertising is banned.

In certain circumstances moderators may use their discretion and allow an established poster to advertise a service, product or event if the moderators feel it is of benefit to the community."

Yeah that sounds fair.

/sarcasm.

Tallon

KamiKazi wrote: »

Yeah that sounds fair.

/sarcasm.

How is it un-fair?

It's protecting the community members

-Chris-

KamiKazi wrote: »

Yeah that sounds fair.

/sarcasm.

What's unfair?

The way I see it, there's no advertising. It's simple.

But as a mod you're trying to make sure your community are getting the best experience they can, and if that means bending the "no advertising" rule every now and again in order to benefit the community, then so be it.


Really it comes down to whether the posting of the advert is for the benefit of the community or for the advertiser.

KamiKazi

It's quite simple, advertising either is allowed or it is not.

Intending to bend the rules means it IS allowed, and therefore anyone should be allowed advertise, not just those that lick the forum moderators' e-holes.

-Chris-

What would your preference be?

If there's an interesting event, product or service that I feel the community should know about, am I allowed to tell them?

Should your (and my) signature be snipped and a hard-line "no shilling" approach taken?


There's already an amount of flexibility, which leads to a grey area. I don't believe you can get rid of this flexibility (or application of discretion) without changing the system from the ground up.

Tallon

KamiKazi wrote: »

It's quite simple, advertising either is allowed or it is not.

Intending to bend the rules means it IS allowed, and therefore anyone should be allowed advertise, not just those that lick the forum moderators' e-holes.

It's not as simple as that, as was explained on page one..

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70037561&postcount=9

One user cannot decide if it is allowed or not.

LoLth

Kamikazi, after more than a month you've returned to a thread and tried to revert it to the original argument ignoring any contributions that have been made by other users so far.

Chris' definition is a quite good one and I will be bringing it up with the other admins to get their opinion on a possible rule change but I certainly would not have any issues with that line being added to a forum charter. (not my call ultimately however, its more of a Dav/Darragh issue)

As Tallon has pointed out, your request for a definite black/white answer has already been dealt with.

You , rather crudely, raise the possibility of favouritism. Yes that is a risk. However mods are selected because we trust their opinion and judgement. we also trust that they are capable of avoiding the pitfalls of playing favourites (more than one mod has had to ban/caution a real life friend.. hell, I once had strong words with my RL boss ). Sometimes a mod will show favouritism unknowingly. it happens and I would hope that a co-mod would point it out to him/her when it does.

Now, your original query has been answered and discussed already. You've heard from admins, the motoring mods and the mod that posted the ad you took offense to. Are there any other relevant issues you would like to discuss on this matter?

28064212

That approach sounds good to me. The only question I would have is: what happens when mod permission isn't sought beforehand by the established poster (as in the originating case here)?

Tallon

If it's a benifit to the community and the mod is posting in his own forum, and the topic is relevant to the forum, then I don't see an issue

28064212

Tallon wrote: »

If it's a benifit to the community and the mod is posting in his own forum, and the topic is relevant to the forum, then I don't see an issue

I meant in the case of an established poster (not mod) who was supposed to run it by the mods first, but instead just posted it without prior permission

Darragh

Oh there is an issue. There's a system or a process to be followed, out of politeness if nothing else.

I hate hate HATE seeing spamvertising posts on the forums. People promoting friends companies or websites pretending they're recommending them. Companies signing up to spam, then pretending it's an intern. Companies signing up to push their competitions but not contributing. They will all be removed from the site one way or another.

Put simply, ALL promotion must be passed by us in the office, for two main reasons.

1. so if there's a commercial opportunity, our Sales team (who help pay to make all this work) can get involved. Sometimes companies who refuse to pay for advertising try to get in another way. It's disrespectful, unprofessional and can't be allowed.
2. We need to make sure that the people posting on behalf of companies are who they say they are and have permission to do so,

Our members make this site. We can't sacrifice it for money, but money makes the site run. There has to be a balance.

Honesty and transparency goes a hell of a long way.

Morag

Posters have always told each other about events going on or stuff the are helping out with. So a local car boot sale now can't be posted about unless a tithe is paid?
What bullshít. Plenty of events and hobbies run on word of mouth that is part of being a community.

If a memeber esp a long standing memeber of a community posts about an event they are invovled in and they have given to the site over the year in discussion helping out other posters or providing content then they have always been able to post about events coming up.

Darragh

That's not what was said.

What was said was

ALL promotion must be passed by us in the office

Moderators ultimately are in charge of their forums and we're happy for that, but we don't want to go down the road of turning people off due to lack of transparency either.

What's good for one person HAS to be the same for the other.

This is the easiest way.

Morag

What exactly do you mean by promotion?
Mentioning and promoting an up coming event?
Or discounts and deals for those who are boards memebers cos your not being clear.

Darragh

Okay, sorry you're not understanding. Let's be very clear.

• Anything that people are earning money from
• Anything that involves someone paying into an event
• Anything that someone is getting paid to promote on Boards.ie
• Anything that comes from a commercial company, brand or organisation
• Anything that the poster is involved in, whether it be friends, family or work
• Anything that is being advertised elsewhere in newspapers, magazines, Facebook ads, radio, television or billboards
• Anything that comes from a PR company or marketing company
• Anything that involves a link to a commercial Facebook Page or website*

has to be passed by us in the office. It will be done on a case by case basis.

*Obvious exceptions are:

• Regular events with participation from forum members that moderators already know about
• Bargain Alerts and Puzzles and Quizzes

and there's probably a few more.

All the OP has to do is drop us or the moderators of the forum a line BEFORE POSTING.

Does that help?

-Chris-

Darragh wrote: »

This is the easiest way.

Can we discuss (either here or in the Mod forum) the process for this?

1. Someone posts a thread promoting something (hopefully PMing me first).
2. If I think it's not of benefit to the community, I delete it.
3. If I think it's of benefit to the community, I temporarily delete it and put a link to the thread in some sort of central thread (like the spammers thread), which you'll check regularly.
4. You comment on my post, saying if it's OK to undelete, to leave it deleted, or to say that you'll contact the poster directly to try and capture them as an advertiser.
5. Based on your reply on thread I take the relevant action.

Does that sound about right?

Darragh

I'm happy to have it discussed here.

1. Someone posts a thread promoting something (hopefully PMing me first).
2. If I think it's not of benefit to the community, I delete it.
3. If I think it's of benefit to the community, I temporarily delete it and put a link to the thread in some sort of central thread (like the spammers thread), which you'll check regularly.
4. You comment on my post, saying if it's OK to undelete, to leave it deleted, or to say that you'll contact the poster directly to try and capture them as an advertiser.
5. Based on your reply on thread I take the relevant action.

I'd be happy with that. I'd also be happy to say that it's only if you and your co-mods think something needs to be highlighted that you do so. If you're happy to have it in the forum, we're happy.

We will have to verify the posters though.

Hank Scorpio

Really wish the thanks function would be disabled in these types of threads, its not very fair on the OP or whoever when an admin makes a point, which may or may not be "wrong", and is automatically thanked by loads of mods

Then again if someone comes up with a great idea its nice to see alot of the users on the forum giving thanks

I think its fair enuff anyway for someone who posts alot of helpful information to advertise a little