Rifle cleaning

gunhappy_ie

dCorbus wrote: »

+1 on the bore-scope



Don't know if there's ever been a scientific and empirical study done - but there is plenty of reference and "anecdotal" material on this (ref. my post earlier and the 6mmBR.com article).



TBH I don't know.
My gut instinct tells me that if you rub one piece of metal vigorously against another piece of metal, albeit a softer metal against a hard metal, you will get some level of surface scoring or indentation.

From my perspective, the only piece of metal I now put down my barrel is the piece of metal that the barrel is designed specifically to have put through it: the bullet. I see no reason why, given that it is not necessary, I would push a metal brush into my rifle bore. If you don't need to do it, why would you? Simples.

But hey, if you can get a scientific institution to carry out a study on this, fire ahead and more power to your elbow.

Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to donate my rifle to science!;):D



Hmmmm......Flannelette, Anyone?:p:D:rolleyes::D



I doubt it - Least, no one i know of does.
Some guys just love not potentially f88kin' up their rather hard-earned and pricy barrels for the sake of a €1.80 piece of nylon.



As do we all.
No one could ever accuse me of cleaning unnecessarily or being overly regular with my cleaning regime! But I depend on the rifle to outshoot me, so I make sure there's nothing I do which will detract from the rifles inate accuracy.

What is it they say about a good workman looking after their tools?;):D

Errrrrr a borescope that lets the used view at 90 degree angles so that they can view the lands and grooves is prohibitively expensive to a shooter. Maybe not so to a club but its still €1000

Over cleanig can be a bad thing too. I have seen "death by over cleaning"

dCorbus

Over cleanig can be a bad thing too. I have seen "death by over cleaning"

Yep, I agree with you on that. Don't get me wrong. I couldn't be arzed cleaning if I thought I didn't have to.

they carry on because as muce as accuracy is to them they do operate on the principle of "near enough is good enough" that being that these guys want X size group

Fair point on the application side of things.
It really does depend on what you're using your rifle for and the level of accuracy and consistency required.

If you're looking for "Minute-of-Man", as in a general military application, that's a very different kettle-of-fish to say long-range benchrest, which requires pretty much sub-MOA accuracy out to 1000yds or more.

Shoot rifle until accuracy drops off, clean and repeat.

Ah, but there's a rather big problem with that policy:
The last shot of a 15 shot detail, your accuracy drops off, you drop 1-2 points, and you lose the competition. All for the sake of a consistent cleaning regime.

i.e. You cannot keep shooting the rifle in a competition until the accuracy drops off - because that means your scores drop off accordingly. What you need to do is find a level of consistency and to know when you will need to clean the barrel before your accuracy drops off.

I don't clean after every shot (in fact, I don't know anyone who does TBH) and I don't even clean after every detail for that matter, or even after every days shooting - but I do clean at a regular interval and in a systematic manner in order to try to maintain a level of consistency.

I know of several civilain shooters that constantly want to improve on that groups but no matter how much they clean and scrub there barrels.... its not working for them

And TBH no amount of cleaning is going to reduce your groups - It may stop them getting larger, but if you're relying on your cleaning and scrubbing to get smaller groups, IMO you're wasting your time and should be out getting trigger time, which is where your groups will really benefit from time spent!

clivej

A bronze can not wear down steel, try putting a bronze brush/brass brush attachment in a dremel drill and use it on steel. All it will do is shine it up. And that after many more rotations than you will do with scrubbing out your bore.
You need the bronze brush to scrub out the carbon from the bore as well as a solvent to loosen that carbon up. It won't shift the copper as that needs one of the copper removers to do that.
I put KG on th ebrush the scrub the bore and then wash the KG off under running water to save the brush from the KG solvent.

From tests that I have read KG copper remover is the best on the market. They put bullet heads in different solvents and left for the same times. They weighted them before and after. KG was the best at copper removal you could see the copper taken off the bullet heads as well the weight difference.

MACT1RE

dCorbus wrote: »

Ah, but there's a rather big problem with that policy:
The last shot of a 15 shot detail, your accuracy drops off, you drop 1-2 points, and you lose the competition. All for the sake of a consistent cleaning regime.

Generally a rifles accuracy will start to drop off around the same round count, since last clean, each time. You should make a note of the count and ensure that you have enough room left to accommodate the total numbers of rounds needed for the competition without getting too near the limit. Other wise you should clean before the competition.

Knowing how far you can push the accuracy of your rifle before it drops off is beneficial for hunting and target alike. As gunhappy said, don’t be fooled into thinking you must fully clean your bore after “X” amount of rounds. Each barrel is different and will tell you itself how far you can push it, if you let it.

Also, some barrels have been known to shoot more accurately after a certain number of rounds down them. If you don't shoot your rifle from clean too accuracy drop off at least 3 or 4 times you may never truly know your barrels ability or failure point.

It wasn't me!

Primarily a smallbore shooter, but I would clean my barrel every time I shoot it, not because it's necessarily more accurate that way, but because it's the only way to be consistent from session to session.

gunhappy_ie

Oh ye are gonna hate me......


Lol.. Id say that I clean my guns after every 2-3 outings.... that could be anything up to 500-600 rounds.

It wasn't me!

Oh, and for the record, my hunting rifle gets a very good clean every thirty or forty rounds, and would get some fouling shots before I hunted with it. The target rifle is a different bunny, with different requirements.

Cass

A mate asked me recently to help him clean his 6.5x55. Had to "tap" the rod up the barrel. Spent the better part of 2 hours cleaning it. Asked him when he cleaned it last. He sid not since shortly after he bought it. 4 years ago. :eek: Anyway when he went out to check the zero, as i had to clean the scope and every screw, etc. the zero was off. Clean barrel and all that. Fired three shots then zeroed the rifle and scope turrets.

Some lads, like myself, clean after a specific amount of rounds, time. Others when they remember. Then those whenever they miss and the dirt falls out the barrel.:D

To each his own, and trying to convince one side that their way is wrong is pointless. Nature of the beast.

IRLConor

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Primarily a smallbore shooter, but I would clean my barrel every time I shoot it, not because it's necessarily more accurate that way, but because it's the only way to be consistent from session to session.

Yep, I do the same and for the same reasons.

With the club gun I was using before, I could never get it completely clean since it had been only sporadically cleaned before I was using it.

By doing a "light" cleaning after every session (before it goes back in the box to go home) I've been able to keep my new one spotless with very little effort. Typically it takes one dry felt to push the rough crap out, then an oiled felt which comes out mostly clean but with dirty groove markings. I follow that up with another dry felt which usually comes out as clean as it went in.

I'll give the rifle a proper clean after a few more sessions, but I haven't got to that yet.

zeissman

I usually clean my rifles every 50 rounds or so.
My 6.5 will show a good bit of copper fouling but I never see any in my 308.
I know these rifles could shoot a lot more rounds without a loss of accuracy but I dont want to risk copper and carbon build up making them difficult to get clean again.

Tackleberrywho

dCorbus wrote: »

+1 on the bore-scope







Hmmmm......Flannelette, Anyone?:p:D:rolleyes::D

dC, Unlike some. I am not afraid to show my learnings from my mistakes for the benefit of others.
Perhaps if I took the moral high ground and never said i missed a bird, or a bunny or piece of cloth from my gun cleaning kit...



I doubt it - Least, no one i know of does.
Some guys just love not potentially f88kin' up their rather hard-earned and pricy barrels for the sake of a €1.80 piece of nylon.

Hunters fire out of a stalking rifle perhaps 100 rounds max a year including Zeroing, a bit of range work and the odd fox.
The Most important cleaning is to stop her rusting from being out in the elements. A day on the shannon after duck or up in the mountains would test the best water proofers available



As do we all.
No one could ever accuse me of cleaning unnecessarily or being overly regular with my cleaning regime! But I depend on the rifle to outshoot me, so I make sure there's nothing I do which will detract from the rifles inate accuracy.

What is it they say about a good workman looking after their tools?;):D

Most workmen have there tools work hardened.
If I spent the day cleaning my tools teh work would not get done.

One thing I learned this year, a €20 led Lenser P4 and an angled mirror is worth it's weight in Gold.
A bore scope is a nice thing to have if you really need one i.e in the trade

Over cleaning wears the bore and can have a negative effect, so to can not cleaning have a negative effect.

I use Moly on the .223 as it coats the barrel and therefore is sacrificial protection for the bore.

On the .308 I would consider Moly. As the 125 Grain HPS are quite fast they may be depositing more copper than 155grain or heavier.

Hunters want the first shot to be on Zero. They are not so concerned with MOA rather than Minute of Crow

dCorbus

Some good info and many sides of the debate represented here for the OP. He should have some food for thought, with all this.

And as I did say way back at Post #32:

Obviously every single shooter is going to have a different opinion on cleaning regimes, so for every shooter you'll probably get different opinions and advice on this whole cleaning question

pejay

dCorbus wrote: »

Some good info and many sides of the debate represented here for the OP. He should have some food for thought, with all this.

And as I did say way back at Post #32:

Thanks lads for all the advice some great info there.

pejay

Hello all,
I was looking around online for cleaning rods etc. I saw the hoppes elite cleaning rod and handle on optics planet.com. do any of you know them are they any good they seem good value

The barrel on me t3 is 24" and plus the bore guide would this one be long enough
.220 Caliber - 6.5mm 38in Rifle Coated $ 19.99

and what about their universal bore guides???


[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ZOEMUR%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-7.png[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ZOEMUR%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-8.png[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ZOEMUR%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-9.png[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ZOEMUR%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-10.png[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ZOEMUR%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-11.png[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ZOEMUR%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-12.png[/IMG]

Cass

The Hoppes would be perfect, but can i ask something. hy look abroad? Every dealer stocks rods and cleaning gear, some more than others. For the price of importing a rod, and i'm not talking taxes and the like, i mean the shipping cost, would it not be easier to just pick one up at your nearest dealer?

pejay

Ezridax wrote: »

The Hoppes would be perfect, but can i ask something. hy look abroad? Every dealer stocks rods and cleaning gear, some more than others. For the price of importing a rod, and i'm not talking taxes and the like, i mean the shipping cost, would it not be easier to just pick one up at your nearest dealer?

Thanks for reply erzidax well I was just looking around and i happend to come accross optics planet and looked at their stuff I was looking at lots of stuff brushes jags patches bore guides ect. Finding it hard to ifnd a good guality one peice rod localy. looked at the hoppes web site and saw there rods.

Cass

pejay wrote: »

Finding it hard to ifnd a good guality one peice rod localy. looked at the hoppes web site and saw there rods.

Hoppes
Bore Tech
Parker Hale
Tetra

These are four makes that can easily be got by at least 6 dealer i know. The shortest of which is 33" and the longest 56".

Where are you, county wise. I might be able to steer you in the direction of a dealer that can help.

pejay

Meath

I know my local shops' "limitations".

Is there any one over your way or you know of with a website you can steer me to.

Tackleberrywho

pejay wrote: »

Meath

I know my local shops' "limitations".

Is there any one over your way or you know of with a website you can steer me to.

Sportsden in Navan??

Cass

www.Sportsden.ie - Navan, Meath
www.Fingalsports.com - Naul, Dublin
Cresent Sports - Monkstown, Dublin
Lakelands - Mullingar, WestMeath
Jim McBride - Ballyskeeran, Athlone, WestMeath
Scullly's - Athlone town, WestMeath


Here is a list of other gun dealers. Some have websites others do not. Its also old so some may not even be trading. Few if any have the rods on their websites, but a call will have you sorted within half an hour tomorrow.

pejay

Thanks for info but to the other part of the question is the spec of this rod ok for me new baby when she comes

The barrel on me t3 is 24" and plus the bore guide would this one be long enough
.220 Caliber - 6.5mm 38in Rifle Coated $ 19.99

Cass

Yes it will work.

pejay

Thanks a mill :)

bae

As yet it has not been said CLEAN BARREL BEFORE FIRING FIRST SHOT.
It will get all the oils left in barrel, (to stop rust in storage) out, and will stop a "onion" in barrel.
Bronze brushes will not damage bore, but bad cleaning will.So use brass wire wound bronze brushes, steel wire ones will, so buy good, inspect brush often, keep it clean.Use cloth to wipe rod as you pull it out of gun.

brian.