Strandhill Airport and Public Service Obligation

dingding

Just saw on the news that they are removing the public service obligation for all regional airports except Donegal and Kerry from July.

Probably the end of Aer Arann flights to Sligo airport.

sligopark

dingding wrote: »

Just saw on the news that they are removing the public service obligation for all regional airports except Donegal and Kerry from July.

Probably the end of Aer Arann flights to Sligo airport.

No thanks to Jimmy Devins and Eamon Scanlon - its well seen the Bull O'Donoghue and Foul Mouth Mary put their foot down ...

dingding

The report also said we don't need it because of the improvements in the road and rail infrastructure over the past number of years.

bobcar61

To be honest it's not going to be a great loss. The trains have been upgraded and are a lot more comfortable than what they were. Yes you are on the train for longer than you are in the air but the train times are a lot more convenient than flying.
Another point is that it's cheaper and bring you closer to the city centre.

You can turn up at the train station 5 minutes before the train is going to depart and be in Dublin City centre 3 1/2 hours later, whereas you have to get to Strandhill around 40 minutes before the flight leaves, 45 minutes in the air, walk through Dublin airport and by the time you get into the City you would almost have been as quick getting the train.

I think this is why the train transports a lot more people than the plane, and it's usually cheaper.

I'm not one bit surprised the PSO has not been kept on, in fact I'm surprised it has lasted so long. Very unlikely that Aer Arann will keep the 2 daily flights to Dublin.

Son Of A Vidic

dingding wrote: »

The report also said we don't need it because of the improvements in the road and rail infrastructure over the past number of years.

I was so pleased they completed the Dublin-Sligo motorway and the Galway-Sligo-Derry motorway before the money ran out.....Oh wait, they didn't.

bobcar61

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I was so pleased they completed the Dublin-Sligo motorway and the Galway-Sligo-Derry motorway before the money ran out.....Oh wait, they didn't.

I thought it was meant to be a Waterford-Cork-Limerick-Galway-Sligo-Derry motorway.

The Sligo - Dublin road is considerably better than what it was 10 years ago or less though, you do have to admit that!

saywhatyousee

bobcar61 wrote: »

I thought it was meant to be a Waterford-Cork-Limerick-Galway-Sligo-Derry motorway.

The Sligo - Dublin road is considerably better than what it was 10 years ago or less though, you do have to admit that!

i agree except from the short section from collooney to castlebaldwin the n4 is a good road

Cool Running

I think it will be a loss

I see what bobcar is saying about going to Dublin City and the time you have to spend before in the airport etc bit if you're heading to Dublin airport from Sligo or the other way around it cant be bet.

If you book well in advance it works out about 30euro and this is nearly the same as some of the train fares. When you get to the airport all you have to do is get your bag and go to another part of the airport to get your next flight. It's just so handy. Way easier than getting the train up with bags then paying around 15euro from Connolly station in a taxi or 6euro on the airport bus to get to the airport so it actually works out pretty good.

I presume the flights will end as I don't know will they survive without subsidies.

Basq

bobcar61 wrote: »

To be honest it's not going to be a great loss. The trains have been upgraded and are a lot more comfortable than what they were. Yes you are on the train for longer than you are in the air but the train times are a lot more convenient than flying.
Another point is that it's cheaper and bring you closer to the city centre.

You can turn up at the train station 5 minutes before the train is going to depart and be in Dublin City centre 3 1/2 hours later, whereas you have to get to Strandhill around 40 minutes before the flight leaves, 45 minutes in the air, walk through Dublin airport and by the time you get into the City you would almost have been as quick getting the train.

Couple of points here bobcar as someone who has taken probably 10 - 15 flights from Strandhill over the last 18 months..

a) Firstly, train tickets are cheaper? I've gotten return flights on numerous occassions for less than €40. A Day Return Ticket is up on €44 for the train. And Irish Rail can feck off with their €10 tickets - spaced few and far between.
b) The train service can be the most unreliable service out there - the last two times I've had to collect friends and family from the train - the train was 40 minutes and an hour late respectively. Once the flight leaves from Strandhill, you'll be on time (and believe me, it rarely leaves late - maybe 10 minutes, and it makes that up in the air)..
c) Aer Arann state to be there 45 minutes before the flight leaves.. realistically, you're safe to be there between the 20 and 30 minute mark between a flight leaves.
d) Yes, Connolly Station leaves you closer to the city centre but what if you're flying out of Dublin Airport. It's another €7.50 per person to get to the Airport from Busarus. Never mind the hassle of getting big suitcases up on that train.

It's gonna be an absolutely huge loss to be honest.

Ned Green

Another glorious day for the three muppets who represent Us in the Dail.I expect as a follow up they will now stand idly by as the government next withdraw the Search and Rescue Service from the Airport.

Neworder79

Firstly, train tickets are cheaper? I've gotten return flights on numerous occassions for less than €40. A Day Return Ticket is up on €44 for the train.

The reason the flight is cheaper is because the low demand for air route means they taxpayer subvents your Aer Arran ticket by €90 per journey each way. 17m spent on PSO to Donegal & Sligo alone in 5 years on top of operating costs.

b) The train service can be the most unreliable service out here

Not sure that's true, Sligo no has 8 services a day. I travelled by train for work a lot in the last few years and never had a major delay. However Aer Arann have had multiple flights delayed and they have been canceling left, right and centre for the last 3 months.

Yes, Connolly Station leaves you closer to the city centre but what if you're flying out of Dublin Airport. It's another €7.50 per person to get to the Airport from Busarus.

It's now 2.5 hours to Dublin by road, and Bus Eireann run express Sligo Dublin airport services, so there are other options.

It's gonna be an absolutely huge loss to be honest.

If you read the report it basically says there is no business or tourism case for Sligo. Only 1.7% of tourists into Sligo and 0.6% into the NW used Sligo Airport. Ireland West Airport is 40 mins away and has 25 routes and 8 buses a day to Sligo.

Yes it was handy, but hard to justify the current level of subsidy on flying when hospital wards are closing. Overall numbers are dropping, the cost base very high for one route and there is virtually no scope for expansion in terms of airlines interested or the physical and planning limitations of the location (which even the local community don't support given the huge numbers objecting to 3 plans).

Mint Sauce

It will be a definate loss if its gone. In fairness I have only used it for two or three return journeys, but every time its been nearly full barr two or three seats, and on each ocassion only had to turn up 20 to 30 minutes before on the sligo side.

Compare it do getting the train down, no garantee that you will get there on time, and then the hassel of dragging your bag on and off and to and from buses to get out to the airport.

What I would be interested in is seeing a survey for reasons for a passengers journey on the plane service, ie onward flight, business/pleasure in dublin, commute, etc.

Neworder79 wrote: »

It's now 2.5 hours to Dublin by road, and Bus Eireann run express Sligo Dublin airport services, so there are other options.

The only bus eireann service that goes to dublin airport from sligo is the 2am bus, getting you to the airport for 5am, all the others bypass and carry on to the city centre.

Same for the return leg, only the last return of the day serves the airport, leaving the airport for sligo just before 10pm.

Neworder79

What I would be interested in is seeing a survey for reasons for a passengers journey on the plane service, ie onward flight, business/pleasure in dublin, commute, etc.

Yes for connections it was useful, but with regional airports accounting for only 5% of national traffic, and Sligo less than 1.6% of regional, it's a very high cost to facilitate very few and the money could benefit a lot more people if focused on better bus, road and rail to other cities.

Lots of data on numbers, cost, value in the report:

http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=12921&lang=ENG&loc=432

munchkin_utd

Neworder79 wrote: »

Yes for connections it was useful, but with regional airports accounting for only 5% of national traffic, and Sligo less than 1.6% of regional, it's a very high cost to facilitate very few and the money could benefit a lot more people if focused on better bus, road and rail to other cities.

Lots of data on numbers, cost, value in the report:

http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=12921&lang=ENG&loc=432

NINTY euros per person EACH WAY in subsidies.
So ONE HUNDRED and EIGHTY (€180) euros subsidy on a return journey to sligo.

AND,
in parallel to this flight theres:
- a perfectly good road to Dublin, bottlenecks in Kinnegad/ Enfield etc now gone
- AND a rail connection that has gone from 3 * 3rd world trains per day to 8 modern trains, WITH a connection to get you to Dublin before 9 and a final train leaving Dublin after 7 in the evening.

Sligo has NEVER been so well connected with the capital.

WHY does is need a flight connection with subsidies of 180 euro per return trip?

Note: the train connection is also not self sufficient. Should the choice arise, should the rail transport subsidies instead be given to the airport rather than the train?
Shut the rail line maybe to save the super all important air connection, that 1% of tourists to sligo use?

dingding

Used to use it all the time with work but I got fleeced for excess baggage a couple of years ago and only used it a couple of times since.

at 180 round trip they probably lost 4K in revenue.

Son Of A Vidic

bobcar61 wrote: »

I thought it was meant to be a Waterford-Cork-Limerick-Galway-Sligo-Derry motorway.

I left out the Galway-Limerick-Cork section in my earlier post, because an attempt has been made at developing a motorway network between them. Unlike the Galway-Sligo-Derry section of the 'corridor'.

bobcar61 wrote: »

The Sligo - Dublin road is considerably better than what it was 10 years ago or less though, you do have to admit that!

Better perhaps but woeful short of the standard it should be at.

Basq

dingding wrote: »

Used to use it all the time with work but I got fleeced for excess baggage a couple of years ago and only used it a couple of times since.

Were you flying elsewhere after that flight?

Went to Orlando in 2008 when Aer Arann had their baggage limit of 15kg (I think) so had to take the train - absolute disaster with baggage etc - but later that year or early 2009, they matched the baggage allowance of the flight you were taking if taking a connecting flight.

Very handy!

TequilaMockingBird

A lot of us will miss the service, but I doubt many could argue the money would be better served elsewhere.

I'd rather a few more hospital beds tbh.

dingding

basquille wrote: »

Were you flying elsewhere after that flight?

Went to Orlando in 2008 when Aer Arann had their baggage limit of 15kg (I think) so had to take the train - absolute disaster with baggage etc - but later that year or early 2009, they matched the baggage allowance of the flight you were taking if taking a connecting flight.

Very handy!

Yes I used that offer since. What happened was they allowed me to bring my hand baggage in the plane in Sligo even though it was larger that their miserable baggage size.

When I was in Dublin they made me put the hand baggage, there was 2 of us, into the hold. this caused the hold baggage to be over weight as well as an extra bag.

In the end they charged us 150 euro, essentially because they have a smaller dimension hand baggage allowance.

Their hand baggage allowance is useless you will be hard to get a bag to fit it.

I would have traveled with them loads of times just carrying a A4 folio and took the opportunity to screw me.

If they had any sort of a CRM system they would have seen how good a customer I was (and cut me some slack) and if they had a good data warehousing system they should be able to work out how much they lost.

I only use them when going on holidays particularly long haul flights that have a large 2 bag baggage allowance.

Use the train now, which is not much more hassle as it brings me into the center of Dublin. I can use the 3G on the train and I get coffee and a bun.

Also loads of options for coming home with a train every 2 hours.

Alos driving to Dublin is grand also as there is less traffic on the road, and more parking in the city centre.

TBH only handy if you are going to the airport.

Plazaman

Sligo is on the lowest rung of priorities when it comes to airports unfortunately, namely it has only one operator and one destination plus the fact that it needs a runway extension to comply with EU Regulations is against it as well. Back in the day of the Celtic Tiger a runway extension into a water glade seemed pricey but doable. Unfortunately the tree huggers, snail kissers and bird spotters (all with foreign sounding names and out of county addresses) put paid to that.

On the up side, the Rescue Services contract has been renewed, there is a hugely active flight training academy and aero club, and it'll still be opened for private use but the extra down side is the loss of about 20 - 30 jobs.

Mint Sauce

I posted this on another forum before and whilst it might seem like a pipe dream, but what about the provision of service to other parts of the country. Now whilst there would not be the demand for a daily service, but a once or twice weekly that would mainly cater for people working in other parts of the country or students.

Destinations such as Cork, Waterford or Belfast, surely if such a service was provided, there would be some interest, currently to get to any of them its either at least two buses or trains, or a long drive.

Plus, what happened to the Manchester service, thought this was very popular during the football season.

Neworder79

About 7000 used Manchester service annually, more fly from Knock - Luton in a month. The plane was also load restricted due to the runway size, less seats higher costs fewer passengers. Competing with 737 at Knock you make no profit.

Regional services haven't worked from Cork/Galway and even Dublin needs PSO. Currently 19 seater on GWY - Belfast is even struggling so couldn't see it working from Sligo at the moment.

starbelgrade

saywhatyousee wrote: »

i agree except from the short section from collooney to castlebaldwin the n4 is a good road

I would disagree. If you're travelling from the Dublin side, once the motorway ends, the road is fairly crap all the way to Sligo.

Seeing as it's a national road & the principal road to the entire North West, the very least you'd expect is for it to have 2 lanes.

Though, it's not half as bad as the N17, which is a disgrace of a road.

dingding

If you think it is bad now you should have seen it 20 years ago.

Travel time to Dublin city center has gone from 4 hours to 2.5 hours.

Essexboy

dingding wrote: »

If you think it is bad now you should have seen it 20 years ago.

Travel time to Dublin city center has gone from 4 hours to 2.5 hours.

you should have seen it 20 years ago.


You sound like some old fogey! but this is typical of you Westerners. You accept inferior services then wonder why you get them. :mad:

Galway has a motorway to Dublin, a train service which takes 30 minutes less than its Sligo equivalent, and a choice of bus companies to Dublin City/Airport.

What did Sligo get in the past 20 years? apart from the dual carriageway between Sligo Town and Collooney, Sweet FA.

Mint Sauce

Essexboy wrote: »

you should have seen it 20 years ago.


You sound like some old fogey! but this is typical of you Westerners. You accept inferior services then wonder why you get them. :mad:

Galway has a motorway to Dublin, a train service which takes 30 minutes less than its Sligo equivalent, and a choice of bus companies to Dublin City/Airport.

What did Sligo get in the past 20 years? apart from the dual carriageway between Sligo Town and Collooney, Sweet FA.

Galway is more west than Sligo is.



But yes, it was much worse 20 years ago, even 10 years ago it was preety bad, and its still along way of being satisfactory.

The NW though has always been generally forgot about, its geographical location, population density will always put it down the list when it comes to deveopment, funding, infrastucture, etc etc.

Inept goverment departments and local authorites have alot of the blame to take as well, during the countries good times how much money was wasted and continues to be wasted, on what, they have nothing to show for it, apart from lining their own selfish pockets.

dingding

Essexboy wrote: »

you should have seen it 20 years ago.


You sound like some old fogey! but this is typical of you Westerners. You accept inferior services then wonder why you get them. :mad:

Galway has a motorway to Dublin, a train service which takes 30 minutes less than its Sligo equivalent, and a choice of bus companies to Dublin City/Airport.

What did Sligo get in the past 20 years? apart from the dual carriageway between Sligo Town and Collooney, Sweet FA.

In the past 20 years:-

The dual carriageway to collooney.
The Curlews bypass
The Carrick On Shannon Bypass
Bypassing the towns between Carrick and Longford.
THE dual carriageway / dromod bypass.
THe Longford Bypass

The Mullingar Bypass
The Dual Carriage way from Mullingar to Dublin bypassing all the towns.
The M50
Bypass all the towns in Dublin such as palmerstown, lucan, etc...


The large amount of towns that you had to drive through that are now bypassed.

sligopark

Essexboy wrote: »

You sound like some old fogey! but this is typical of you Westerners.

was going to post up a reasonable response but this got up my nose

IvyTheTerrible

I used to use Aer Arann from Sligo a lot, as it was very handy for connections (you're already in the airport), but after an experience at Christmas, I'll be considering other options.

The flight from Sligo was due to leave at 8.40. I got to the airport at 8, only to be told that the flight was delayed til 10.30. The reason for this was not bad weather or anything like that, but because they were flying to Derry from Dublin, picking up their Dublin-bound passengers, then flying to Sligo, picking us up and then going to Dublin. It seems they were doing this as a cost saving exercise, as there were only 3 of us leaving from Sligo that morning. I only made my connecting flight with 5 minutes to spare and no apologies or anything.

I wouldn't risk another flight with them, if that sort of thing was going to happen again.

bobcar61

I think I've only flew with Aer Arann a hand full of times.

I too had a bad experience with delays. I had an important flight to catch from Dublin so I said I'd take the plane up to Dublin instead of driving. Got to the airport, checked my bags in and everything was fine. Heard the flight was delayed by hours and it would have been tight making my connection in Dublin.

Decided to go to the check-in desk, asked for my checked luggage back and put the foot down and drove to Dublin while constantly looking at the time.

Made it to Dublin airport in the nick of time, then on the screens with the boarding gate information of where to go, it said the flight to Dublin had been further delayed.

Point of the story, as my flight was waiting in line to take off from Dublin, the flight from Sligo just landed so I definitely would have missed it.

I was taking a flight as well from Dublin to Sligo and it was cancelled due to low figures.

Don't trust their services, hence I never use them anymore.

Mint Sauce

bobcar61 wrote: »

I think I've only flew with Aer Arann a hand full of times.

I too had a bad experience with delays. I had an important flight to catch from Dublin so I said I'd take the plane up to Dublin instead of driving. Got to the airport, checked my bags in and everything was fine. Heard the flight was delayed by hours and it would have been tight making my connection in Dublin.

Decided to go to the check-in desk, asked for my checked luggage back and put the foot down and drove to Dublin while constantly looking at the time.

Made it to Dublin airport in the nick of time, then on the screens with the boarding gate information of where to go, it said the flight to Dublin had been further delayed.

Point of the story, as my flight was waiting in line to take off from Dublin, the flight from Sligo just landed so I definitely would have missed it.

I was taking a flight as well from Dublin to Sligo and it was cancelled due to low figures.

Don't trust their services, hence I never use them anymore.

In fairness, that could be an issue with any airline and its a risk you take when flights are not connecting. Anytime I have taken I have done it I have always allowed a 2 to 3 hrs if possible. Ok sometimes its not enough, sometimes its not even posible due to flight timetables, but it was a risk I have taken.

Even none connecting flights on the same airline wont allow you that grace if one delayed. Ie, if you fly Ryanair Knock to Standstead, and then another Ryanair flight on to some where else, they wont care if you miss the second flight due to first delayed, they will just tell you to rebook at your own expence.

A missed Air lingus flight might be alittle more understanding due to their partnership with Aer Arran, but I would doubt it.