Galway Airport to lose PSO subsidies

Cosmo Kramer

...from July 2011 - confirmed by Noel Dempsey today.

In October Joe Walsh, the airport's CEO stated that the PSO funding was critical to the facility's survival.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/15663-county-council-steps-pressure-government-over-galway-airport

Aer Arann are now propped up by the Stobart transportation company who wish to operate the business primarily from Southend rather than Ireland. The Galway - Luton flight is expected to be dropped and replaced by a Galway - Southend flight later this year.

The airport passenger fee seems to be a final effort to keep the airport going, but is there really any future for the facility now? Why the airport wasn't expanded years ago to accommodate bigger jets is beyond me, its location is perfect for use as an international gateway but this is unlikely to happen now.

Madame Razz

Bye bye Galway airport then.

As for Aer Arann replacing the Luton route, that seems pretty suicidal, surely Luton is better serviced via public transport than Southend?

That said, Aer Arann are losing a lot of their London flying 'regulars' thanks to them providing a dismal service to and from Galway with problems on a large proportion of flights since August of last year.

We used to use the route for business a lot but have opted for Shannon-LHR recently as the service is more reliable and often costs less. Shannon is very accessible with the new motorway now anyway.

Nemi

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Why the airport wasn't expanded years ago to accommodate bigger jets is beyond me, its location is perfect for use as an international gateway but this is unlikely to happen now.

The immediate problem was opposition from supporters of Knock Airport:

http://www.thepost.ie/archives/2000/1105/oranmore-plan-threatens-knock-airport-573024138.html

A Mayo TD has asked the Taoiseach not to allow the sale of Department of Defence land at Oranmore, Co Galway, which has been earmarked as a potential site for a new airport. Michael Ring of Fine Gael fears that the development of a new international airport in Galway could have a catastrophic effect on the future of Knock International Airport in Co Mayo.

The broad issue is simply that there's too many airports in the West, all with overlapping catchments, all simply taking business off each other.

If Knock had never been built, and instead Galway got an airport with a similar length of runway, it almost certainly would have worked out better. That's what happens when you let infrastructure spend get decided on the basis of political campaigns instead of facts and figures.

galwayrush

Way past time to get replace the useless representatives we have in the Dail, looks like they ignored this one as well.:mad:

?Cee?view

galwayrush wrote: »

Way past time to get replace the useless representatives we have in the Dail, looks like they ignored this one as well.:mad:

They didn't ignore it. They actively campaigned against it. The Green-o-mentalists must be thrilled, led by Cuffe on this particular stupidity.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0723/1224275297328.html

Hopefully anyone in Galway who considers air access to Galway and Aer Arann to be of importance will remember this if O Brolchain calls to their door.

galwayrush

churchview wrote: »

They didn't ignore it. They actively campaigned against it. The Green-o-mentalists must be thrilled, led by Cuffe on this particular stupidity.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0723/1224275297328.html

Hopefully anyone in Galway who considers air access to Galway and Aer Arann to be of importance will remember this if O Brolchain calls to their door.

Another reason to give those FF and Green idiots a hell of a hard time if they dare come to my door canvassing.

Neworder79

According to The Minister for Transport the decision was based on the findings of the "Value for Money Review of Exchequer Expenditure on the Regional Airports", a report commissioned after the Board snip report recommended scrapping all regional airport funding.

It goes into a lot of detail and analysis of the cost/benefits of each airport.

Among the main findings re Galway:

- Improvements in road and rail access to Dublin appx 2hrs, Shannon 1.05 hrs
- Cost base at Galway and Waterford is excessive relative to revenues
- Galway sustaining increasing losses for most of last decade
- Galway 23% of all regional airport operational funding since 2000
- PSO 25% of Galway passengers, service to Dublin has suffered a 35% drop
- Operational subsidy growing, now 21% of Galway turnover, 46% Waterford
- IDA say airport within appx 1 hour journey time is satisfactory to multinationals
- Galway airport used by 3.9% inbound tourists to region, 5% to county appears to make a limited contribution to tourism
- 12.5% of inbound tourists accessing the region, 48% county via Knock Airport

Among the main recommendations:
- End PSO routes to Sligo, Galway, Knock, Derry
- End operational subsidy to Galway & Sligo, review Waterford in the future
- No further capital investment to Donegal, Galway & Sligo
- Continue limited operational funding for Knock, Donegal & Kerry
- Continue to improve transport/road access to regional airports

The reports conclusion:
"Exchequer support for regional airports in Connaught should be focused on Knock Airport, which can adequately serve both Galway and Sligo with a greater range of services than offered by Galway or Sligo Airports. This focus on Knock should also increase Knock’s “critical mass” and enhance its finances. Galway city will also have the benefit of improving journey times to Shannon Airport."

Sponge Bob

There is no justification for subsidising a Galway Dublin air route since the motorway was built. None whatsoever.

Not often I find myself agreeing with that idiot Cuffe but there you go.

GekkePrutser

I don't agree the road route is a good replacement. I've been up and down on the buses a lot recently (especially ****tylink) and they're awful.

They waste at least half an hour in the center of Dublin City picking one or two people up when there is a lovely M50 they could take direct from the motorway, and they're always overcrowded. And legroom is even less than on the plane (which is only a 30 minute sit to Dublin anyway). I can't imagine business travellers to put up with it.

I've taken to always flying to Dublin if I can, the only reason I didn't recently was because I was up and down to Dublin unexpectedly due to the Aer Lingus cancellations and Aer Arann was too expensive at short notice.

I think Aer Arann deliver a great service, you can fly from Dublin to Galway for 25 euro on the spot if they have space. It's going to hurt local businesses further if this service is to go.

Storm 10

Heard O Brolchain on Galway Bay news this moring saying he is in with a good chance of getting elected this time, well not with my vote you wont, the Greens have ruined this country and now going to close Galway Airport.

Wompa1

GekkePrutser wrote: »

I don't agree the road route is a good replacement. I've been up and down on the buses a lot recently (especially ****tylink) and they're awful.

They waste at least half an hour in the center of Dublin City picking one or two people up when there is a lovely M50 they could take direct from the motorway, and they're always overcrowded. And legroom is even less than on the plane (which is only a 30 minute sit to Dublin anyway). I can't imagine business travellers to put up with it.

I've taken to always flying to Dublin if I can, the only reason I didn't recently was because I was up and down to Dublin unexpectedly due to the Aer Lingus cancellations and Aer Arann was too expensive at short notice.

I think Aer Arann deliver a great service, you can fly from Dublin to Galway for 25 euro on the spot if they have space. It's going to hurt local businesses further if this service is to go.

Not a big fan of the bus service to Dublin. I got a bus from Dublin Airport to Galway in November that took 4.5 hours!! I could have got from Galway to Luton and from Luton into St. Pancras in that time. Let alone the quick 20 minute flight from Galway to Dublin

Deleted User

Reposted from a previous thread - it was affordable because it was subsidised.

Deleted User wrote: »

It's Galway airport bringing in the fee not Aer Arann - I'm not sure if the Galway-Dublin flight would survive if the subsidy was cut/eliminated.

These numbers are from 2003 but they suggest each passanger was subsidised by €50 per one way trip back then
http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/4803-0.pdf

Would you be willing to pay an extra €100 for your trip?

Neworder79

Wompa1 wrote: »

Not a big fan of the bus service to Dublin. I got a bus from Dublin Airport to Galway in November that took 4.5 hours!! I could have got from Galway to Luton and from Luton into St. Pancras in that time. Let alone the quick 20 minute flight from Galway to Dublin

How'd you manage that, snow? Citylink's only 2.5 hours to DUB airport:

http://www.citylink.ie/assets/timetables/Feb2010/20932%20Dublin%20Leaflet%20(updated%2019th%20December%202010-Website).pdf

The report says there may be demand for someone like Manx2 to operate with a smaller aircraft.

lion_bar

Madame Razz wrote: »

Bye bye Galway airport then.


That said, Aer Arann are losing a lot of their London flying 'regulars' thanks to them providing a dismal service to and from Galway with problems on a large proportion of flights since August of last year.

We used to use the route for business a lot but have opted for Shannon-LHR recently as the service is more reliable and often costs less. Shannon is very accessible with the new motorway now anyway.

+1.

I fly to the UK a couple of times a month and to be honest have switched to Shannon. Aer Arann are too expensive, the landing charges & taxes totally overprice the flight compared to RyanAir to Stanstead or AerLingus to LHR.

With Shannon 1 hr from Galway City which is nearly guaranteed travel time when i'm getting an early morning flight, Galway airport has priced itself out of the market for me.

Wompa1

Neworder79 wrote: »

How'd you manage that, snow? Citylink's only 2.5 hours to DUB airport:

http://www.citylink.ie/assets/timetables/Feb2010/20932%20Dublin%20Leaflet%20(updated%2019th%20December%202010-Website).pdf

The report says there may be demand for someone like Manx2 to operate with a smaller aircraft.

Funny enough it was City Link I got from the Airport back to Galway. The guy at the airport was like ohh the next GoBus isn't for 30 minutes, our bus isn't direct but it will get you there at the same time....

That was a lie!! The bus went into Dublin City for the first stop and stayed there for over 30 minutes and then took long stops all along the way. It took the older route it seemed. I had just completed about 23 hours of travelling from the West Coast of America and was bulling when I realised the prick out right lied to me

yeehaw

Storm 10 wrote: »

Heard O Brolchain on Galway Bay news this moring saying he is in with a good chance of getting elected this time, well not with my vote you wont, the Greens have ruined this country and now going to close Galway Airport.

He has absolutely no chance of getting elected. The greens are unlikely to return a single seat in the next election. Wipeout on the cards- worse than the PDs last time.

The writting has been on the wall for the Galway airport for over a decade. Its living on borrowed time.

If it is not economical to run and can not make a profit, it should be shut.

We need to change this attitude of propping up inefficent entities just becausea local TD wants to save a seat.

?Cee?view

Deleted User wrote: »

If it is not economical to run and can not make a profit, it should be shut.

We need to change this attitude of propping up inefficent entities just becausea local TD wants to save a seat.

On that basis you'd have to shut Ireland's rail and bus networks. CIE got 800 million in state subsidies in 2008. Can't find more recent figures just now.

One wonders how much the ludicrous Western Rail Corridor costs? Surely that money would be better directed to Galway airport.

paconnors

Storm 10 wrote: »

Heard O Brolchain on Galway Bay news this moring saying he is in with a good chance of getting elected this time, well not with my vote you wont, the Greens have ruined this country and now going to close Galway Airport.

I wonder what's he smoking, must be some good 'Green' Weed

nuac

imho

1. Galway is too near to Shannon, with recent improved road access to justify a separate Galway Airport.

2. Of all the airports in the West, Knock seems to have the best facilities and most room to expand, and therefore investment should be concentrated on it.

3. Not everything in the West has to be in Galway - hospitals, university, etc etc - get used to that Galwegians.

Amazotheamazing

nuac wrote: »

2. Of all the airports in the West, Knock seems to have the best facilities and most room to expand, and therefore investment should be concentrated on it.

Is Shannon not in the West or something?

If there was a motorway from Galway to Shannon (as there should be), it'd only be 35-40 minutes away.

Ideally there would be a motorway from Cork to Sligo but we'll be waiting...

Sponge Bob

Another report on Operating Subsidies to Airports ( not to airlines but to airports) recommended pulling subsidies to Galway and Sligo and concentrating them in Knock only. See Here.

Galway airport got €900k from the Department of Transport towards its operating costs in 2009 and seemingly got €1.2m in 2010

Over the years the subsidies for Galway Were (source)

* Initial OPEX allocations not all paid over that year but FF TDs got their BS announcements off anyway. Cutbacks were made quietly after the OPEX allocations were announced which is why the headage charge was introduced a few months ago.

Opex PSO Total
2005 280,000 2,953,594 €3.2m
2006 678,000 3,004,919 €3.7m
2007 859,000 3,041,058 €3.9m
2008 1,200,000 3,271,344 €4.5m
2009* 962,000 3,314,239 €4.3m*
2010* 1,800,000 3,430,810 €5.2m*

Knock should be given no more OPEX money until they stop taxing tourists in the terminal, this policy is utterly indefensible. It is a headage charge collecting around €2m a year but brings the west into complete disrepute. Shannon doesn't do it.

Robbo

nuac wrote: »

2. Of all the airports in the West, Knock seems to have the best facilities and most room to expand, and therefore investment should be concentrated on it.

The famed "foggy, boggy hillside"? We'd need Joe Coleman to have a few more apparitions for it to justify any more investment.

churchview wrote: »

On that basis you'd have to shut Ireland's rail and bus networks. CIE got 800 million in state subsidies in 2008. Can't find more recent figures just now.

One wonders how much the ludicrous Western Rail Corridor costs? Surely that money would be better directed to Galway airport.

€106 million to deliver a rail service that tops out at 60mph, arrives into Athenry facing the wrong way and takes 40 minutes longer than the express bus. Then there's the noisy, uncomfortable commuter railcars presently used...

Neworder79

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Knock should be given no more OPEX money until they stop taxing tourists in the terminal

Galway have a €10 departure fee now also, Shannon also looked at it when they lost a huge number of routes. Waterford have a €7 dep fee which Aer Arann include in the ticket.

Thing is Knock didn't need any OPEX subsidy for some years before the downturn, mainly due to it's ability to self fund through the departure fee and growing airline business. If they dump the fee the Government would end up subsidising more through OPEX due to the shortfall in profits.

We can all give out about subsides like they are a dirty word, but every transport mode in the country is subsidised to some extent and wouldn't be able offer the service the public demands otherwise.

The key is that we don't over subsadise private companies/airlines or waste tax payers money. Which is why this review of regional airports is highlighting the unsustainable state of Galway and Sligo when better air services could be delivered for less money by focusing on the fewer viable airports.

With hospitals closing and the IMF turning the screw we have to be practical in what infrastructure we can now invest in for the greatest return.

GekkePrutser

Neworder79 wrote: »

With hospitals closing and the IMF turning the screw we have to be practical in what infrastructure we can now invest in for the greatest return.

It still makes a lot more sense to me to invest in airports near cities, such as the one in Galway, as opposed to the one in Knock which is miles from the nearest city and doesn't even have a decent bus service to it from Galway.

Amazotheamazing

GekkePrutser wrote: »

It still makes a lot more sense to me to invest in airports near cities, such as the one in Galway, as opposed to the one in Knock which is miles from the nearest city and doesn't even have a decent bus service to it from Galway.

Logically yes, but afaik, Galway Airport can't expand due to it's location and there's (now) better existing facilities at both Shannon and Knock. It makes little sense to have an airport with decent facilities (can land all types of planes there etc) and then build another one 40 mins up the road.

Neworder79

It still makes a lot more sense to me to invest in airports near cities, such as the one in Galway, as opposed to the one in Knock which is miles from the nearest city and doesn't even have a decent bus service to it from Galway.

There are 8 Bus Eireann services a day to Knock from Galway, but yes it could improve if Citylink offered an express service and better integration of public transport.

It may not be in Galway city but it is central in the Connaught/NW region at the intersection of the 2 main primary road routes and seems to have no problem attracting users from the wider region, which is more cost effective/sustainable model for a low density region than multiple small airstrips serving individual towns.

Galway is a city of 73000, county of 232,000 people with 3 motorway/HQ road links to 2 major airports within 1 hour (M16, M17 soon to be completed) and M6 to Dublin in 2hrs. Galway is useful in providing a direct London link to the city. But it would take hundreds of millions to upgrade to the same level of infrastructure as is Knock and Shannon 1 hour away. It makes no sense, we don't have the population, need or money. The result would be 3 airports with overlapping catchments and no critical mass struggling to survive.

With the state of the finances we have to stop thinking at county level and plan for the West as a region with sustainable, integrated development that can deliver growth and measurable benefits.

Sponge Bob

Shannon has to be kept open....that even if no passengers used it any more.

Neworder79

Shannon is still carrying about 2m per year. You can't compare that with 160,000 odd using a regional airport.

Unfortunately it doesn't make sense to keep subsidising Galway airport as there are bigger airports within reasonable distance.

Edit: And Knock isn't a major airport

Neworder79

Unfortunately it doesn't make sense to keep subsidising Galway airport as there are bigger airports within reasonable distance.
Edit: And Knock isn't a major airport

Correct, I was was looking at comparable infrastructure in Irish terms. In World terms Dublin isn't even in the top 50 anymore.