Galway Airport to lose PSO subsidies

yew_tree

Deleted User wrote: »

Unfortunately it doesn't make sense to keep subsidising Galway airport as there are bigger airports within reasonable distance.

Edit: And Knock isn't a major airport

Hi all first time poster here. Knock isnt a major airport but it is compared to galway. Shannon wouldnt be too busy if the US military was not using it. Knock is central in connacht and the NW so rightly should be the only airport in the region. Passenger numbers last year were around the 700,000 mark and now with new routes announced has over 25 destinations.

Knock is the fourth busiest airport in the republic. Not everthing has to be in galway - r.e hospitals etc.......

KevR

Nemi wrote: »

The immediate problem was opposition from supporters of Knock Airport:
The broad issue is simply that there's too many airports in the West, all with overlapping catchments, all simply taking business off each other.

If Knock had never been built, and instead Galway got an airport with a similar length of runway, it almost certainly would have worked out better. That's what happens when you let infrastructure spend get decided on the basis of political campaigns instead of facts and figures.

+1,000,000

Could not agree more!! The airport situation in the West of Ireland is a farce.

Dublin and Cork are justified in having the airports that they currently have. There should really only be one other medium sized airport in Ireland - either immediately to the South of Galway City or immediately to the North of Limerick City with a motorway between the 2 cities built at the same time as the airport and some other improvements to the road network.

Unfortunately this will never happen - we will be stuck with too many small/medium airports which all have rubbish timetables because there is too much competition and the population is nowhere near big enough. As a result, none of the Western airports can really offer any competition to Dublin with it's superior timetable and superior selection of routes. People from the West will always head to Dublin Airport in their droves despite the choice of multiple airports closer to home.

I fly on a fairly regular basis and I always use Dublin Airport which is over 2 hours away. Galway Airport is only 20 mins away from me, Shannon 1 hour and Knock 1 hour but I can never get the flights I want from these airports or I'm not willing to pay through the nose to use them.

I feel really sorry for any of the staff in the regional airports who end up losing their jobs but it won't be much of a loss or an inconvenience to me if those airports drop routes or shut down completely.

KevR

yew_tree wrote: »

Hi all first time poster here. Knock isnt a major airport but it is compared to galway. Shannon wouldnt be too busy if the US military was not using it. Knock is central in connacht and the NW so rightly should be the only airport in the region. Passenger numbers last year were around the 700,000 mark and now with new routes announced has over 25 destinations.

Knock is the fourth busiest airport in the republic. Not everthing has to be in galway - r.e hospitals etc.......

Knock Airport should never have been built, same goes for a number of other airports in Ireland. Knock is not central to anywhere and the population isn't there to justify it. Instead of all the Western airports, a single airport in Galway (of similar size to Shannon) built many years ago with large scale improvements to the road network carried out when the airport was being built would have been better overall for the West of Ireland as we'd have a great selection of flights with a good timetable. A proper airport in Galway would have given Dublin a lot more competition.

I do find it hilarious that a priest got Knock Airport built to bring pilgrims into Ireland. The main use for the airport now is people from the North West getting cheap flights out to Spain to get wasted and score left, right and centre. You couldn't make it up! :pac:

GekkePrutser

Neworder79 wrote: »

Galway is a city of 73000, county of 232,000 people with 3 motorway/HQ road links to 2 major airports within 1 hour

That is exactly a reason why Galway should have an airport. Because you can actually get there. It's very well connected in the region and there's a lot of people who can reach it quickly.

Knock is at the very best 1 hour and 10 minutes from Galway and the road over there is too unpredictable. Getting through Claregalway in the morning, getting stuck behind a farmer, etc will all add ages to the trip. The point is that it will add 2 hours to the whole journey because you have to think worst-case not to miss your flight. So in terms of getting there it is no better than Dublin, which can at least be reached now without much chance of congestion.

I think it comes down to what you're willing to accept as a suitable travel time to an airport, I think over 2 hours is not acceptable, especially for business travellers who might be doing the trip weekly.

yeehaw

yew_tree wrote: »

Hi all first time poster here. Knock isnt a major airport but it is compared to galway. Shannon wouldnt be too busy if the US military was not using it. Knock is central in connacht and the NW so rightly should be the only airport in the region. Passenger numbers last year were around the 700,000 mark and now with new routes announced has over 25 destinations.

Knock is the fourth busiest airport in the republic. Not everthing has to be in galway - r.e hospitals etc.......

Probably worth pointing out that Shannon airport was originally earmarked for Galway but political considerations meant it was located elsewhere. There should be one Airport in the West of Ireland and it should be Shannon Airport located in Galway.

Sadly, that ship has sailed.

yew_tree

KevR - Rubbish. With a motorway galway in only an hour most from shannon and when the M17 is done it wont be too much further from knock. Knock is central in the BMW region. Galway is not a big city in international terms. Ye already have the cance services etc there so dont go crying when galway doesent get something.

Knock is ideal as there is plenty of space to expand in the future. By the way most of the traffic is from the UK not sun holidays, most of which only run during summer months. Ryanair wouldnt be expanding from knock if they were not doing well.

Its amazing the ignorance of some people on knock airport. They have a top class team working hard in attracting new business and developing the infrastructure. Credit where it is due.

As for it not being built in the first place - Fr.Horan is a hero. If that is your argument galway airfield should never have been built up the road from shannon.

Sponge Bob

Knock should never have been built ( I mean 30 years ago) . Some priest in Mayo wanted to develop his shrine into a new Lourdes or Fatima.

Were we left with a clear slate and no subsidised Galway or Sligo to muddy the waters , it would have been built or certainly jusifiable in the era of cheap mass shorthaul plane travel that started circa 1990.

If not precisely in Knock them somewhere in Mid Connacht a Kerry Airport/737/A320 grade runway would have been built. Knock is half way between Shannon and Derry.

So Knock is justified in full hindsight. Galway was a creation of a country with no motorways, in fact hideously crap roads out of Dublin until the past 5 years.

With the motorways in place there is no reason to subsidise Galway any more. The Motorway IS the new subsidy if you will

Shannon was in Competition with the Curragh line in the 1940s as Yeehaw said, Shannon won, Dev was the local TD .

GekkePrutser

yew_tree wrote: »

Not everthing has to be in galway - r.e hospitals etc.......

I know this is a bit offtopic but because everyone keeps bringing it up: of course Galway should have a hospital. The problem is not that Galway has all these resources, but that other smaller population centers don't have these critical life-saving facilities.

Every major town should have a hospital. It's really incomprehensible that a big town (and regional center) like Athlone for example doesn't have one, even a small one. Blame the Irish health system but not Galway.

yew_tree

GekkePrutser wrote: »

I know this is a bit offtopic but because everyone keeps bringing it up: of course Galway should have a hospital. The problem is not that Galway has all these resources, but that other smaller population centers don't have these critical life-saving facilities.

Every major town should have a hospital. It's really incomprehensible that a big town (and regional center) like Athlone for example doesn't have one, even a small one. Blame the Irish health system but not Galway.

I never siad galway should not have a hospital. but it shouldn't have to cope with patients from mayo, sligo, roscommon, donegal etc who want cancer treatment in the so called center of excellence.

KevR

yew_tree wrote: »

KevR - Rubbish. With a motorway galway in only an hour most from shannon and when the M17 is done it wont be too much further from knock. Knock is central in the BMW region. Galway is not a big city in international terms. Ye already have the cance services etc there so dont go crying when galway doesent get something.

Knock is ideal as there is plenty of space to expand in the future. By the way most of the traffic is from the UK not sun holidays, most of which only run during summer months. Ryanair wouldnt be expanding from knock if they were not doing well.

Its amazing the ignorance of some people on knock airport. They have a top class team working hard in attracting new business and developing the infrastructure. Credit where it is due.

As for it not being built in the first place - Fr.Horan is a hero. If that is your argument galway airfield should never have been built up the road from shannon.

I'm not too worried about Knock expanding, it's in the middle of nowhere. Dublin Airport on the other hand is beside a city and has recently got a second terminal. I can see Dublin Airport getting a second parallel runway before there is any major expansion at Knock or any of the other airports.

You're clutching at straws bringing the likes of cancer care/hospitals into this argument..

I agree the airport that is in Galway now should never have been built, along with Knock, Shannon and Sligo. Just one proper medium sized airport in Galway would have been a lot better for the whole of the West of Ireland.

Everyone wanted an airport in their own back yard, everyone got one and the result is that none of them actually provide a REAL ALTERNATIVE to Dublin Airport. It's sad what has happened and it's a classic example of how the West of Ireland shoots itself in the foot.

Every town/village in the West thinks it should be some sort of a special transport or employment hub. The result is that investment here is too thinly spread. Contrast this to Dublin and the East - Dublin is without question the main transport and employment hub. We can't compete with them in most areas and it is largely our own fault.

Neworder79

The country is surviving on IMF/EU loans at crippling interest rates, I don't think many realise things haven't hit bottom yet. The next government will have to make hard decisions after the election promises.

The billions promised for infrastructure in the past were based on the dream of eternal growth, where every town could have a motorway, 5 spa hotels and a shopping centre. That money will now go to paying our interest bill for the next 20 years. The days of ministers doling out out grants like smarties from Paddys day parade are over.

Like the amalgamation of hospitals to create a critical mass of services and reduce duplication costs, it will mean change. But we have to be more practical with spending and reduce waste.

The PSO cuts are based on a detailed report that looked at all aspects of regional airport subsidy and assessed value of that investment to access/tourism/business. It points out that overall most aren't the "vital", "crucial" gateways many groups claim them to be, contributing only 5% of national air traffic overall.

Did anyone bother to read the findings, or is it easier to ignore reality and waste time revising history?

http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=12921&lang=ENG&loc=432

Amazotheamazing

KevR wrote: »

I agree the airport that is in Galway now should never have been built, along with Knock, Shannon and Sligo. Just one proper medium sized airport in Galway would have been a lot better for the whole of the West of Ireland.

Is that what Shannon should be?

If there was a motorway from Sligo to Cork, Shannon would be with 40 mins of Galway and 25 of Limerick.

KevR

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Is that what Shannon should be?

If there was a motorway from Sligo to Cork, Shannon would be with 40 mins of Galway and 25 of Limerick.

Not an ideal location for me. Should either be on the outskirts of Galway or Limerick and named accordingly. Even if it didn't get built in Galway then I would have rathered that it was built right on the Northern edge of Limerick than in Shannon. What tourist wants to hang around the Shannon town area?? And it's not exactly on the doorstep for people in either Limerick or Galway to use - it may as well be on the doorstep of one city and a motorway connection could have been built to the other city.

In 2009, almost 1 million people attended Galway events in 3 weeks (Ocean Race, Horse Racing and Macnas). Shannon and Knock have medium sized airports and those areas don't even come close to Galway in terms of tourism, population, employment, revenue to the exchequer and national importance.

If Shannon was in a good location then the government wouldn't have had to pull the stunts that they did over the years to make it viable.

It would only be a very small consolation but Shannon should be renamed 'Limerick-Galway Airport' so people from outside Ireland will associate the airport with places that they actually might want to visit. Probably won't ever happen though as the residents of Shannon and County Clare would no doubt kick up holy murder..

koura

Galway Airport is overstaffed and was badly managed
and the subsidies were used to pay these people.
They should have used some of the subsidies to market the airport.
The most glaring example of bad management was the
lack of facilities for people picking up people at the airport.

Amazotheamazing

KevR wrote: »

Not an ideal location for me. Should either be on the outskirts of Galway or Limerick and named accordingly. Even if it didn't get built in Galway then I would have rathered that it was built right on the Northern edge of Limerick than in Shannon. What tourist wants to hang around the Shannon town area?? And it's not exactly on the doorstep for people in either Limerick or Galway to use - it may as well be on the doorstep of one city and a motorway connection could have been built to the other city.

In 2009, almost 1 million people attended Galway events in 3 weeks (Ocean Race, Horse Racing and Macnas). Shannon and Knock have medium sized airports and those areas don't even come close to Galway in terms of tourism, population, employment, revenue to the exchequer and national importance.

If Shannon was in a good location then the government wouldn't have had to pull the stunts that they did over the years to make it viable.

It would only be a very small consolation but Shannon should be renamed 'Limerick-Galway Airport' so people from outside Ireland will associate the airport with places that they actually might want to visit. Probably won't ever happen though as the residents of Shannon and County Clare would no doubt kick up holy murder..

I disagree, Shannon is a good location, it's badly utilised. Who wants to live beside an airport? Makes sense to have the industrial park there too.

The catchment area for Shannon should be the west coast from Kerry to Sligo, with proper road and rail links to back it up. Airports aren't destinations in themselves, how many tourists stay in Gatwick or Heathrow?

I don't think either Galway or Limerick is large enough to sustain an airport on it's own (well Galway clearly isn't if Galway Airport has to close)

KevR

Heathrow is within the Greater London boundary so enough said there..

Galway/Limerick aren't big enough to sustain a medium sized airport but Shannon is?

Galway Airport isn't sustainable because the runway is too short and the likes of Ryanair and Aer Lingus can't fly there as a result. A lot of the passenger traffic through Galway was subsidised through the PSOs, this funding is being cut because Galway is now connected to Dublin with a full motorway.

If Galway had a longer runway it would definitely be sustainable. It would probably kill off Knock and do serious damage to Shannon. Someone posted earlier in the thread about protests from people in Knock when a bigger airport for Galway was proposed. That certainly proves my point!

Amazotheamazing

KevR wrote: »

Heathrow is within the Greater London boundary so enough said there..

Galway/Limerick aren't big enough to sustain a medium sized airport but Shannon is?

No one place on the west coast is big enough to sustain an airport. The only solution, imo, is to have one top class airport that the entire west coast can use. Imo, the best place for the airport is somewhere between Limerick and Galway, (due to their populations) with proper links to all the towns on the west coast.

This "go it alone" attitude from all the towns on the west coast (including Limerick and Galway) is weakening us. We should be asking for top class facilities, even if it's just one on the west coast, than asking that everywhere has a hospital, airport, etc of poor standard. Right now we have too many airports and no interconnectivity.

Neworder79

Fantasy geography seems to be order of the day.

Here's a map of the reports recommendations for regional airports policy (motorways shown are those complete, or going ahead which travel times are based on)

Not an ideal location for me. Should either be on the outskirts of Galway or Limerick

No one place on the west coast is big enough to sustain an airport. The only solution, imo, is to have one top class airport that the entire west coast can use. Imo, the best place for the airport is somewhere between Limerick and Galway, (due to their populations) with proper links to all the towns on the west coast.

Eh, Shannon's is between Limerick & Galway, 20 mins drive from Limerick, 1hr on soon to be completed Galway motorway, closer than many major city airports. Do youthink we should rip up the biggest runway in the country so it looks more centered on a map?

What tourist wants to hang around the Shannon town area??

About as many as hang round Luton, Stansted, Gatwick, Heathrow.. believe it or not they can take buses elsewhere.

it may as well be on the doorstep of one city and a motorway connection could have been built to the other city.

Eh it is, and the motorway is 3/4 finished, have you ever been past Oranmore?

Shannon and Knock have medium sized airports and those areas don't even come close to Galway in terms of tourism, population, employment, revenue to the exchequer and national importance.

Hate to break it to you but Limerick is Irelands third city in population terms, Limerick and Shannon region is the biggest Industrial area outside Dublin, don't believe everything you read in the Connaught Tribune.

I don't think either Galway or Limerick is large enough to sustain an airport on it's own

With the motorway it's easy to get to Shannon from both cities, and was carrying almost 3m before the downturn with a lot of transatlantic traffic, so it's not the dead horse some make out. And airports serve regions beyond immediate local towns.

Someone posted earlier in the thread about protests from people in Knock when a bigger airport for Galway was proposed. That certainly proves my point!

Proves nothing, if you read the 10 year old article it was about a speculative proposal in Oranmore based on a land deal, and the "protests" were from Michael Ring who's in the papers mouthing off daily about all sorts.

But his point at the time same one we are discussing here, "What is the point of the government supporting one airport to close down another?". The whole reason for this weeks report was to look at the data and make recommendations to form a more coherent policy in future spending.

Madame Razz

It's also worth mentioning that Shannon deals with a healthy amount of air freight coming in and out of the country also.

996tt

Wompa1 wrote: »

Not a big fan of the bus service to Dublin. I got a bus from Dublin Airport to Galway in November that took 4.5 hours!! I could have got from Galway to Luton and from Luton into St. Pancras in that time. Let alone the quick 20 minute flight from Galway to Dublin

Wompa1 wrote: »

Funny enough it was City Link I got from the Airport back to Galway. The guy at the airport was like ohh the next GoBus isn't for 30 minutes, our bus isn't direct but it will get you there at the same time....

That was a lie!! The bus went into Dublin City for the first stop and stayed there for over 30 minutes and then took long stops all along the way. It took the older route it seemed. I had just completed about 23 hours of travelling from the West Coast of America and was bulling when I realised the prick out right lied to me

thats a bit harsh to the excellent bus service that is available btwn galway and dublin airport, its like saying i flew to paris but it took 14days because i connected via 56 airports and therefore all planes are crap, get the correct bus the next time and when your posting include all relevant information the first time

yew_tree

KevR - argues that knock and Shannon don't come close to Galway in terms of national importance....and also says it would suit him better if an airport was built on the edge of Galway city.

suit him....this fella is a WUM and nothing else.
Also knock shrine is Ireland's most visited tourist attraction after the Guinness brewery. Many charter flights enter knock for that purpose every year.

Many city airports are located an hour from the city they serve. Me thinks you want an airport on your back door but listen mate you are not going to get it so i think you should drop it now.

Also the knock PSO to dublin was also dropped but only accounts for 2% of traffic anyway. The argument that mayo links via road to Dublin have improved is fantasy stuff to say the least.

996tt

I think that the government were right to do away with the PSO for the galway-dublin flights. Why should tax payers have to subsidize people(75 to 100eur each way) who wont use the alternative transport that is available especially in crisis times. These alternatives are at least twice as good as they were when they first handed out PSOs.

Dublin:
Plenty of alternatives - train/bus/drive

With the recent opening of the new motorway to dublin it only takes about 2.15 to drive from galway city to dublin city. So very little time saving in flying versus drive/get the bus(non stop motorway all the way)/train

Flight to dublin:
Galway city to Galway airport=15mins
wait for flight=45mins(minimum)
flight=45mins
dub-city=15mins(minimum)

And if you are connecting for an international flight i wouldn't rely on aer arann due to their very poor record of late for gal-dub flights. It seems as though all their efforts are directed towards keeping aer lingus happy in their franchise arrangement at the cost of their own routes.

Shannon and knock are now served by a much improved road network, although knock has a long way to go we have still seen the bypass of allot of towns in south Mayo.

So i think its good night galway airport, I wont miss it, few times ive used it flights weren't cheap and were usually delayed and an expensive taxi each end makes it very expensive to use.

IMO I would like to see it downgraded to a weston type airport, then it might allow shannon/Knock a better chance of survival.

Cosmo Kramer

I would have to disagree with KevR's view of where the airports would be ideally situated. Actually, from looking at that map, although it involves a bit of fantasy grography with future motorways etc., it does show that, probably through some sort of bizarre accident, the locations of the airports are pretty much spot on.

There's no point trying to have one airport for the west coast from Kerry to Derry that can compete with Dublin, it is not feasible, you'll get 1 million people in the east within 20 miles of Dublin Airport, you'll need to include the whole western seaboard from north to south to find that type of population. People in Tralee or Letterkenny are never going to use a massive airport somewhere in Galway, so you have to accept that airports in the west will be smaller.

We really only need 4 international airports - Dublin as the national hub, Cork for the South, Shannon for Limerick and Galway cities as well as Clare and the south midlands and Knock for the west (north of Galway City) and north west. Dublin will always be the largest by far, Knock will always be smaller than Cork or Shannon, but then that just reflects the population densities of the regions. Again due to geography, areas of west Kerry and west Donegal are fairly remote and can maybe justify their local airports for flights to Dublin and London, but no more. The rest of the west coast is adequately served by Shannon and Knock.

Galway needs a big improvement in terms of public transport connections to Shannon, once the M18 is completed it is really going to feel like a local airport for the city. Probably reachable in 35 minutes from Oranmore by then, that's quicker than you'd get from Dublin Airport to the City Centre sometimes.

996tt wrote: »

And if you are connecting for an international flight i wouldn't rely on aer arann due to their very poor record of late for gal-dub flights. It seems as though all their efforts are directed towards keeping aer lingus happy in their franchise arrangement at the cost of their own routes.

The other problem for Galway Airport is that it is no longer a priority for Aer Arann. They now have two main aims, building up the Aer Lingus Regional franchise, where the western base is Shannon, and expanding out of Southend. I wouldn't be surprised if, this time next year, these two sectors accounted for more than 90% of their passengers. Padraig O Ceidigh always kept the Aer Arann focus on Galway out of local loyalty (probably to the detriment of the company) and, although he's still there, he's not really running the show any more.


One other point on the PSOs - I think anyone who has said they are unnecessary is absolutely correct. If, in better future economic times, they are ever to be brought back I would suggest that they should be used for funding to London airports rather than Dublin. This is not out of some sense of anti-nationalism or anything, its just the case that businesses in the regions would gain far more benefit from well timed and funded flights to London with its worldwide onward air connections than to Dublin, which despite its large usage only has links to Europe, the US East Coast and Abu Dhabi.

KevR

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

This "go it alone" attitude from all the towns on the west coast (including Limerick and Galway) is weakening us. We should be asking for top class facilities, even if it's just one on the west coast, than asking that everywhere has a hospital, airport, etc of poor standard. Right now we have too many airports and no interconnectivity.

I agree fully. Unfortunately, there is too much begrudgery in the West and I really can't see a change in mindset anytime soon.

I would have even preferred Limerick to have got the one proper airport in the West assuming the Limerick-Galway road was upgraded at the same time. One proper airport in Limerick would have been better than the current setup for the people of Galway and the West. In Galway's case we would have an airport with a decent timetable only an hour away in Limerick; much better than having to travel over 2 hours to Dublin.

Neworder79 wrote: »

Fantasy geography seems to be order of the day.

Here's a map of the reports recommendations for regional airports policy (motorways shown are those complete, or going ahead which travel times are based on)

What that map doesn't illustrate is the number of people in the West who still end up having to travel 2 or 3 hours to Dublin Airport to get a flight because routes/timetables are so diluted and poor in the Western airports. That is my main point - so many airports should not have been built in the West. One medium sized international airport with a decent timetable would have been a lot better for the West and a small airport in Donegal (near the Sligo border) to provide connectivity to Dublin because parts of Donegal are very remote.

Compare the East to the West on that map - many people in the East are further away from an airport than a lot of people in the West. The people in the East have to travel further to get to their one airport but their one airport is much much better than anything in the West. Imagine having loads of rubbish small/medium airports in the East, all of them with poor timetables, instead of one decent one?!

Having one proper airport in the East and by having it attached to a city (which is also the main employment hub in the region) meant that it was easy to improve roads/transport in the region because Dublin is the main focus of everything (and rightly so).

Neworder79 wrote: »

Eh, Shannon's is between Limerick & Galway, 20 mins drive from Limerick, 1hr on soon to be completed Galway motorway, closer than many major city airports. Do youthink we should rip up the biggest runway in the country so it looks more centered on a map?

I don't think we should close and/or rip up any of the existing airports. I didn't say we should do that so please don't make it sound like I did. My opinion is that they shouldn't have been built in the first place (one of them should have been built....elsewhere).

Neworder79 wrote: »

Eh it is, and the motorway is 3/4 finished, have you ever been past Oranmore?

Is it really? I didn't know that. I don't know anything about roads and I'm certainly not a regular contributor to the Roads forum on Boards...

I did clearly state that an airport should have been built in either Limerick or Galway and a motorway/dual carriageway built at the same time as the airport to connect the other city.

Shannon opened a long time ago and the motorway to connect Galway is only 3/4 complete now! The contract for the final section of motorway hasn't even been signed yet.....

Neworder79 wrote: »

Hate to break it to you but Limerick is Irelands third city in population terms, Limerick and Shannon region is the biggest Industrial area outside Dublin, don't believe everything you read in the Connaught Tribune.

You aren't breaking anything to me - I'm well aware that there are more people in the Limerick urban area than in Galway.

Limerick/Shannon region?? Is the same logic of taking in such a massive area applied to everywhere when measuring industrial activity?

Besides, Shannon town/industrial area was only built to go alongside the airport - all built in the middle of nowhere. Could all of this not have originally been built right beside one of the cities? Of course it could have been.

Neworder79 wrote: »

With the motorway it's easy to get to Shannon from both cities, and was carrying almost 3m before the downturn with a lot of transatlantic traffic, so it's not the dead horse some make out. And airports serve regions beyond immediate local towns.

Of course Shannon had a lot of transatlantic traffic when transatlantic flights were forced to do stopovers there!!

While this may have been good for Shannon, it was not good for Irish tourism overall.

And again, why build an airport in a location where you will have to force flights to land there so as to make the airport more viable?

Neworder79 wrote: »

Proves nothing, if you read the 10 year old article it was about a speculative proposal in Oranmore based on a land deal, and the "protests" were from Michael Ring who's in the papers mouthing off daily about all sorts.

But his point at the time same one we are discussing here, "What is the point of the government supporting one airport to close down another?". The whole reason for this weeks report was to look at the data and make recommendations to form a more coherent policy in future spending.

I do not want another airport in the West. I have never said that I do!! My point is still perfectly valid - if Knock was/is a better location than Galway for an international airport then a bigger airport in Galway would not pose a threat to Knock and nobody would have to protest when there was a bit of speculation.

Although I don't want a bigger airport in Galway now, I do think that Michael Ring's mouthing off shows that Galway would have been a better location than Knock in the first place.

Madame Razz wrote: »

It's also worth mentioning that Shannon deals with a healthy amount of air freight coming in and out of the country also.

Yes but had Shannon been built elsewhere the airport still would have got the freight traffic.

Not to mention that a longer runway at Dublin was blocked - the idea was that heavy cargo planes would be forced to first land at Shannon with its longer runway to unload some cargo/weight before continuing on to Dublin. While this has helped cargo traffic levels in Shannon, it hasn't helped the country as a whole because many heavy cargo planes are routed through Manchester to unload some cargo/weight before they continue on to Dublin.

KevR

yew_tree wrote: »

KevR - argues that knock and Shannon don't come close to Galway in terms of national importance....and also says it would suit him better if an airport was built on the edge of Galway city.
suit him....

No, I actually didn't say that. I said it would have been better for the West of Ireland had just one proper medium sized airport been built in Galway OR Limerick.

yew_tree wrote: »

this fella is a WUM and nothing else.

I'm a WUM?

You're 4th post on Boards is you trying to convince us that the Knock area is more nationally important than Galway City. You also brought hospitals/cancer care into an airport debate saying Galway has them and that we can't have everything. But yeah, I'm the WUM.

yew_tree wrote: »

Also knock shrine is Ireland's most visited tourist attraction after the Guinness brewery. Many charter flights enter knock for that purpose every year.

So what? They are just single attractions. I'm sure the Galway area easily gets more visitors than the Knock area.

yew_tree wrote: »

Many city airports are located an hour from the city they serve. Me thinks you want an airport on your back door but listen mate you are not going to get it so i think you should drop it now.

I'm not your mate and don't tell me what to do.

When did I actually say that I wanted an airport on my back door? I actually don't want a new airport in Galway now. I firmly believe that the airport situation in the West is shameful and it's a situation that should never have arisen in the first place. Of course this point seems to be completely lost on you.

Madame Razz

Shannon airport is approx 20km from Limerick city, that's hardly in the middle of nowhere tbh. It's a good airport. It's quick to get thru, it, again, has a regular service to a main airport hub(LHR), the carpark is convenient to the terminal, you can get a decent coffee there etc etc. It's also now a 40minute drive from Oranmore in an area unaffected by traffic.

I really don't see why Shannon airport is being so maligned in this thread, it's in as good a location as an international airport on the western seaboard can be, certainly not 'the middle of nowhere'

Madame Razz

Also, Shannon as a cargo base is well placed to handle the export/import of goods that are needed in/from the western seaboard, medical devices for example, so I think it is actually well placed as a cargo base also. It would not be convenient for the country as a whole to have all cargo going in and out of the one airport; in fact several medical device companies use Shannon for all of their import/export for this reason; as the location is actually MORE convenient for the country as a whole than Dublin.

Neworder79

KevR: What that map doesn't illustrate is the number of people in the West who still end up having to travel 2 or 3 hours to Dublin Airport to get a flight because routes/timetables are so diluted

Very true, low cost carrier phenomenon didn't help timetables, though they have the cost base to use small airports. Thankfully Aer Lingus adding more reliable frequency and routes again at Shannon.

KevR: My opinion is that they shouldn't have been built in the first place (one of them should have been built....elsewhere).

I get what your saying. But I dont see the benefit of going over what "should" have been, we have to work with what exists. This report if impleminted would would be a step to avoid repeating previous mistakes and lead to fewer, but better served airports.

KevR: I did clearly state that an airport should have been built in either Limerick or Galway and a motorway/dual carriageway built at the same time as the airport to connect the other city.

Again you're revising the past, applying modern thinking to a poor country with virtually no spatial planning and piecemeal investment.

Shannon's building in 1936 came out of the Foynes flying boat base on the estuary and thankfully is very close to one of the cities. There was no motorway in the country until Naas bypass in 1983!

Amazotheamazing

Neworder79 wrote: »

Shannon's building in 1936 came out of the Foynes flying boat base on the estuary and thankfully is very close to one of the cities. There was no motorway in the country until Naas bypass in 1983!

I've always thought Shannon/Foynes is very underdeveloped. It has a lot of natural amenities that make it a fairly good site for an industrial heartland to rival Dublin and Belfast in Ireland. I'd much rather one top quality seaport was built there than see loads of seaports with limited capacity like Limerick docks kept open. It goes to back what i was saying about the "go-it-alone" problem in Ireland, the west coast of Ireland would be in better shape if all the various counties and councils worked together, we're a small area with a low population, the replication of facilities (of a low standard) makes no sense.

Galway1989

more bad news for galway ... the airport is handy but i suppose we'll have to do without it!
its amazing what you'll do without when push comes to shove!:rolleyes:
I can see the above sentence will be our mantra for the next few years!