Galway Airport to lose PSO subsidies

xflyer

There are too many airports on the west coast. It's simply unsustainable. As it happens probably the ideal location for an airport is Galway and the original location in Oranmore. Carnmore was originally a private strip for a businessman and because of the shortsightedness of the owners of the Oranmore airfield. Carnmore became the airport. It was always too short and too narrow and in the wrong place. Aer Arann cannot even fill their bigger ATRs because of the runway length.

If Galway had a runway like Kerry, Ryanair would have dozens of flights a week. But that will never happen now.

Galway airport is going to pay the price of bad and politically motivated planning.

By the way the airport won't be dug up. It will stay an airfield just lose it's regional status. It will be a great place for flying schools, clubs and private jets. No more airline services.

Steyr

nuac wrote: »

2. Of all the airports in the West, Knock seems to have the best facilities and most room to expand, and therefore investment should be concentrated on it.

Expand where, it is build on a Bog. EICM should have had the Runway extended a long time ago. If they had extended the Runway at EICM ( Carnmore ) and upgraded the Nav aid's they would have had Ryanair and other's possibly Easyjet in there with no problems landing 737-8AS and A320-200 aircraft on a regular basis instead of the odd Bizjet you see going in or the BAe146/RJ that was there for a period on behalf of Aer Arann.

I still wish RE Operated those 146's as I got to Malaga on them, and I was very happy to have left from Carnmore instead of Shannon.

Steyr

yeehaw wrote: »

Probably worth pointing out that Shannon airport was originally earmarked for Galway but political considerations meant it was located elsewhere. There should be one Airport in the West of Ireland and it should be Shannon Airport located in Galway.

Have you a link to this? EINN was originally an Irish Air Corps Base "Rineanna".

mayfly1

All, great debate taking place on this issue. Bottom line from reading the Value for Money report from the DoT which they say they have spent much time and energy compiling:
Recommendations

· Exchequer support for regional airports in Connaught should be focused on Knock Airport, which can adequately serve both Galway and Sligo with a greater range of services than offered by Galway or Sligo Airports. This focus on Knock should also increase Knock’s “critical mass” and enhance its finances. Galway city will also have the benefit of improving journey times to Shannon Airport.
· The Donegal-Dublin PSO service should be retained and the PSO services from Dublin to Kerry, Galway, Sligo, Knock and Derry should be ended. Donegal is relatively remote in Irish terms. The cost per passenger of subsidising PSO services is difficult to justify at the other airports having regard to improved public transport and/or road journey times to Dublin. A commercial service from Dublin to Kerry may be feasible because of latent demand for the current service (100,000 passengers per annum).
· Continuing OPEX support at Donegal, Knock, Kerry and Waterford should be provided subject to stringent assessment of annual requests for subvention and encouragement of greater efficiency through the use of benchmarking/ performance indicators.
· Opex support for Galway and Sligo should end.
· Capex grants would be confined to essential safety and security work and would be of the order of €10m in the next few years.


Either way if one takes the above on board or not, critical mass and passenger throughput is key to making airports viable, and international research indicates that one much be in exces of 1m pax plus to achieve any level of efficiencies/cost recovery. None of the current western airports are at this level, and even Shannon is appaently losing €10-20m plus in 2010..from media press reports,however they have the DAA to support them (as individual accounts are not publised this cant be verified one way or other). Therefore my conclusion is that they may be room for one airport in the west outside of Shannon..to survive and grow, and even at that continued government interventions will be required.

Cosmo Kramer

Another blow for the airport today with Aer Arann announcing that they will be competing with their own route out of Galway by launching Edinburgh from Shannon under the Aer Lingus Regional brand.

Until recently this was one route Galway Airport had that wasn't catered for elsewhere in the west, but now Knock-Edinburgh will be run by flybe in addition to this new Shannon route.

I wonder does competing with their own routes in this manner from Shannon (they do likewise with SNN/GWY - Manchester) suggest that Aer Arann are now preparing to wind down their Galway base?

Yeehaw wrote: »

Probably worth pointing out that Shannon airport was originally earmarked for Galway but political considerations meant it was located elsewhere. There should be one Airport in the West of Ireland and it should be Shannon Airport located in Galway.

Have heard the Curragh Line story many times but I have no idea if it is true or if its an urban myth.

mayfly1

I see they also have increased frequencies from
Shannon today also on manchester

Neworder79

Looks like it. I'd guess the Aer Arann PSO aircraft are what will end up starting their new Southend base agreed in the Sobart deal, O Ceidigh would have known what was coming down the line looking at the numbers and well flagged cuts.

So they might switch some of the routes out where they have Aer Lingus Regional duplication at Shannon.

Amazotheamazing

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Have heard the Curragh Line story many times but I have no idea if it is true or if its an urban myth.

I think it's just urban myth tbh, I've heard it was due to be built on the other side of Limerick til de Valera stepped in but tbh, i think Shannon just made more sense in an era where flying boats were still (or recently) in more widespread use.

I'm sure every parish in Ireland has their own "yeah, Shannon was supposed to be built here but Dev dicked us over", well except the folks in Shannon.

Steyr

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Have heard the Curragh Line story many times but I have no idea if it is true or if its an urban myth.

A nice little bit of info, alot of the Airfields around Ireland used to be EX Royal Air Force ( Royal Flying Corps ) which we got when we got independence such as Oranmore:

http://www.connemara.net/words/aviation.htm

The original Galway aerodrome, Oranmore, was one of the eight sites selected in 1917 to provide for a massive extension of flying training to feed the ever growing need for operational pilots in France. In the event, Oranmore became a Royal Air Force base for four years between 1918 and 1922, hosting elements of 2, 100, 105 and 106 Squadrons equipped with Bristol F.2B Fighters. Later, in the 1930s, it was one of the venues for displays given by Sir Alan Cobham and his barnstorming Flying Circus, which did much to popularise flying throughout the British Isles. During the Second World War, it was listed as an emergency landing field for USAAF aircraft encountering difficulties on their way to the European theatre of war.





http://www.military.ie/aircorps/history/index.htm#bases

Rineanna (Shannon Airport)
Rineanna was occupied on the 30th August 1939 when 4 Anson’s and 2 Walrus’s arrived from Baldonnel. The aircraft and personnel were from the 1st Recce and Medium Bombing Sqdrn, and the Coastal Patrol Sqdrn. The detachment was commanded by Capt W.J. Keane and Capt T.J. Hanley was his second in command.


Patrols were flown over the west and south coasts from this base. In 1943 the fighter Sqdrn occupied Rineanna and were to remain there with their hurricanes until May 1945 when they moved to Gormanston. Baldonnel and Rineanna were the only permanent bases of the wartime Air Corps. The Fighter Squadron was the last detachment to leave Rineanna, which subsequently became a civil airport, Shannon as we know it today.


On the 30th August, Rineanna was occupied by a detachment of four Anson’s of the R& MB Squadron and two Walrus of the C.P Squadron, all under the command of Capt. W J. Keane, with the instructions to commence patrols around the south and west coasts. It was not a pleasant posting, as Shannon airport had yet to be built, and conditions were primitive in the initial years. The following day an Anson initiated the first patrol and the first Walrus patrol followed the next day. The occupation continued until May 1945.

Foynes had become a translantic flying boat terminus, and Air Corps officers gave invaluable assistance as air traffic control (ATC) officers; this was the genesis of the civil ATC service.

Sponge Bob

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0407/aerarann.html

Aer Arann's Padraig O'Ceidigh says it will no longer be 'financially viable' for the airline to operate the Galway-Dublin route post 21 July.
The public service obligation (PSO) arrangement for Galway airport ceases on that date.
Passenger numbers on the route have continued to decline in the past number of years.
PSO arrangements also cease for Knock and Sligo on 21 July.
It is currently not possible to book any flights on aerarann.com from either Knock or Sligo to Dublin on dates after 21 July.

Madame Razz

No surprise there then. Maybe their service on other routes out of Galway will improve when they no longer have to service the Dublin route, and with any luck they'll retire the plane with the dodgy door, or at least fix it:rolleyes:

CowboyTed

Hey,

I take about a hundred flights a year and live in Galway. The problem with all the regional flights in Ireland is logistics.

Sit down in Dublin Airport at 7 am and watch the flights. You will see the great exodus to Europe. Paris, Munich, Frankfurt, Amsterdam, Geneva..... all take off at that time... Problem is that all the Regional flights get in at the same time. This stops any chance of getting a connection. Therefore any one who has to get these flights have to go up to Dublin the night before.

This could have been easily solved by delaying a number european flights until 7.10 and having the regional flights come in at 7. Very important make sure they come into the same Gates Area and allow swapping straight then. This would make every thing simple. Sorry No Luggage.

The downside is the Airlines might complain. If it is Aer Lingus tell them to shut up your still part owned by the government. Offer a reduction in tax.
The other complaint (and the largest) would be the Airport, they will hit it from the angle that it risks security. This is a red herring comsidering this is don't already on an intermitten basis. The real objection is that Dublin airport has is that they like everyone to spend 90 mins in there airport (spending) before any departure. So if they offer this service let Dublin Airport charge an extra €5 for this operation.

This would really help business... These short flights are helping business... If I had to/from drive to Dublin Airport for every flight it would cost me 300 hours a year, that is 7.5 weeks work a year. Companies come to Ireland for easy access to Europe, they have a check list for suitability, Sales and Consulting staff wasting 7 weeks a year is a big no no.

As usual this is another great win for Dublin, Terminal 2 looks like a great idea now... just a problem the whole airport is in the wrong place... It should have been in Enfield or Naas...

KevR

CowboyTed wrote: »

As usual this is another great win for Dublin, Terminal 2 looks like a great idea now... just a problem the whole airport is in the wrong place... It should have been in Enfield or Naas...

I disagree - the last thing we need is another airport.

The reason why airports in the West are failing is because there are too many of them competing against each other. The result is that each of them have very poor timetables which are no competition to Dublin.

In contrast, the East has one proper airport and that's Dublin. It has a good timetable and plenty of passengers to make it viable. The people of the East don't seem to want many bad airports, one good airport is enough for them. Everyone in the West wants and expects to have an international airport (it doesn't matter if it's a really bad one) in their back garden.

There are 3 airports within 1 hour 20 mins of my home in Galway. I almost always end up using Dublin Airport which is 2 hours 15 mins away because I can't get the flights I need from my local airports. It's a crazy situation.

The current situation should never have been allowed to happen. I don't think we should make it worse by building another airport anywhere in the country. In fact, I'd actually prefer some consolidation of the Western airports.

Sponge Bob

CowboyTed wrote: »

I take about a hundred flights a year and live in Galway. The problem with all the regional flights in Ireland is logistics.
.

I normally take the Gobus express nowadays Ted, free wifi and only one checkin/security and no parking issues miles out from the terminal.

I got sick of being told to take my shoes off and being shaken down for headage payments by the airport for that dubious privilege.

CowboyTed

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I normally take the Gobus express nowadays Ted, free wifi and only one checkin/security and no parking issues miles out from the terminal.

I got sick of being told to take my shoes off and being shaken down for headage payments by the airport for that dubious privilege.

GoBus is great... But if your flying on Monday Mornings to hit a desk for a days work on the continent it doesn't work. Those 7 o'clock flights involve getting up at 3 to get the 3.45 to catch that flight. Can't arrive to a client looking like an extra from a Vietnam movie. 5 O'Clock is really the earlest and that has a toll during the day.

The cost of staying over night in Dublin outweights any of those payments.

CowboyTed

CowboyTed wrote: »

GoBus is great... But if your flying on Monday Mornings to hit a desk for a days work on the continent it doesn't work. Those 7 o'clock flights involve getting up at 3 to get the 3.45 to catch that flight. Can't arrive to a client looking like an extra from a Vietnam movie. 5 O'Clock is really the earlest and that has a toll during the day.

The cost of staying over night in Dublin outweights any of those payments.

I tended to fly the night before and stay there then be fresh for work in the morning when I needed to be there first thing.

GekkePrutser

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I normally take the Gobus express nowadays Ted, free wifi and only one checkin/security and no parking issues miles out from the terminal.

On the buses you still have to go through the city center, and they're often very crowded. Especially the night ones (I often take a flight around 6am from Dublin). I've even had a few times where the bus was so full that they refused people without a reservation and I had to wave my reservation in the air to get noticed, otherwise I would have missed the bus and maybe the flight. And the free wifi never seems to work once you get on the motorway.

So now I just drive up and park, it costs me 50 euro in fuel, 16 for tolls and then parking so it's around 90 euro for a long weekend, 3 times as much as the bus, but it's still the best option for me. If I could fly I'd do it but I have the same problem as CowboyTed because I need to get that early flight. I'll still miss it though for the times where it did work out with the connecting flight.

Lumi

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I normally take the Gobus express nowadays Ted, free wifi and only one checkin/security and no parking issues miles out from the terminal.

I got sick of being told to take my shoes off and being shaken down for headage payments by the airport for that dubious privilege.

Speaking as an ex regular flyer from Galway Airport I totally agree, the headage payment was indeed the final straw !! I've happily switched to a Gobus/Ryan Air combo for all of my business travel to the UK - it's significantly cheaper as well

Madame Razz

Used to be a regular traveller from Galway airport too but the service got so bad that I switched to Shannon. Early morning flight to LHR is a gift and you don't even notice the journey down and back.

CowboyTed

Deleted User wrote: »

I tended to fly the night before and stay there then be fresh for work in the morning when I needed to be there first thing.

I understand and when I was doing more work at home I would do that. But when you ending up in a Swiss Private Bank for 6 months and they want you there 40 hours a week. After a month it takes its toll... Home very late on Friday and leaving Sunday afternoon is a short weekend...

extraice

time two get the Key people back two run the airline .... whos was the Coens ? any know them are what there at now ?
Aer arann if get flight right in the early hours you many get connection on but no Aer arann come in late ....
Why is ?

extraice

extraice wrote: »

time two get the Key people back two run the airline .... whos was the Coens ? any know them are what there at now ?
Aer arann if get flight right in the early hours you many get connection on but no Aer arann come in late ....
Why is ?

I'm sorry....what???

chickey75

I think its awful the flights are going, I travel weekly on the Galway to Dublin servivce and will really hate having to get the bus or worse still drive at an ungodly hour of the morning....with reluctance i will have to investigate shannon ...

CowboyTed

chickey75 wrote: »

I think its awful the flights are going, I travel weekly on the Galway to Dublin servivce and will really hate having to get the bus or worse still drive at an ungodly hour of the morning....with reluctance i will have to investigate shannon ...

I find Shannon quite good especially if you are going to London. I was usually trying to pick Galway to support it but I did find Shannon very accessible.

dafunk

I've taken them a few times and the planes weren't even half full. Sometimes there was literally only a couple of people on board. I always thought they were marketing it all wrong. Rather than sell four tickets for sixty quid return they should have been competitive with the train and charged 45 quid including a bus transfer that would take you from Galway city and back. Surely they could fill every flight if they did that? The flights are reasonable but it's expensive to park in the airport and difficult to get to and from. Maybe they advertise but I've never see an ad for the galway Dublin route. I think poor marketing has contributed to their demise. It's a terrible shame.

koura

The problem lies with the management at Galway Airport.
The levy was the easy option.
I still think the PSO will be extended on condition the management
start running it as a business and market the airport.
It’s not too late. Start by treating the passengers and especially the people
who come to the airport to pick up passengers as customers.
A vending machine for Tea/Coffee would be a star and few chairs.
Take one from the plush offices, and get the management off there you know what.

chickey75

CowboyTed wrote: »

I find Shannon quite good especially if you are going to London. I was usually trying to pick Galway to support it but I did find Shannon very accessible.

Unfortunatley only once a month my destination is London and I intend still using Galway airport for these flights and have heard good feedback on Southend...Its the other 3 weeks of the month i will have to use alternative transport.

Neworder79

Harbor Air planning direct city centre flights Galway Docks - Dublin. Remains to be seen if this gets off the water, and how well it would perform in bad weather.

Businessman Emelyn Heaps, CEO of Harbour Flights Ireland, said his company had been planning to develop a Galway-Dublin link for four years. He described Aer Arann’s decision to cease the link between the city’s two airports as an opportunity for his firm.

“It’s a great opportunity for us,” he said. “That’s business. We are hoping to open up our route in September and it would be a great thing for the people of Galway. People will be able to avoid the hassle of going from airport to airport, of lengthy security queues, they can check-in in a matter of minutes and fly to a city centre location.”

He said that, subject to approval from the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA), the Galway to Dublin city centre link can be up and running by September.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/18821-seaplane-firm-planning-start-galway-dublin-flights

celty

I always thought the Aer Arann service was bound to be doomed, given how much better the N6 road is the almost €1m in subsidies for the route was completely indefensible. It also smacked of 'jobs for the boys' given the well-known links between the former Aer Arann chief and FF.

This new plan sounds like a great idea, although I'd wonder if this firm are just spoofers. I'd imagine flights on their small planes would not be aimed at the budget traveller.

CowboyTed

celty wrote: »

I always thought the Aer Arann service was bound to be doomed, given how much better the N6 road is the almost €1m in subsidies for the route was completely indefensible. It also smacked of 'jobs for the boys' given the well-known links between the former Aer Arann chief and FF.

This new plan sounds like a great idea, although I'd wonder if this firm are just spoofers. I'd imagine flights on their small planes would not be aimed at the budget traveller.

The Aer Arann route was mainly there to service business needs for connecting flights. That is why it was worth a €1m a year. The moving of the flights doomed that. It is not flights to Dublin that is needed but flights to Dublin airport to make connecting flights. We are attractive to inward investment because we are close to Europe, at the moment it is quicker to get from New York to Paris than from Galway to Paris. That puts us very uncompetitive, thus looses/fails to gain jobs.

I don't know if people understand there is a where will I place my factory/R&D facility playbook which consists of alot of boxes to tick. One Major section is access to Markets and People. The thing is it is not just about getting people out to meetings in Europe it is also about getting people in. Specialist Contractors (IT, Medical, Pharma) are also needed to provide expertise in our facilities too.

As for the Seaplane, better than nothing but as far as I can remember they can't land in the dark. So starting a seaplane business in September could have problems. I wish them the best of luck and it could be a goer. Considering the port tunnel it might just work for Dublin Airport, they would also have no restraint in summer on when to take off.