Threatened Car reposessin - advice wanted

slingerz

Hi all,

I arrived home tonight to a letter from a bank telling me that my car was subject to a motorloan rental purchase agreement and accordingly they had legal/equitable interest in the merchandise.

they want me to return the vehicle or they will recover it and contact their solicitors and go through the court if necessary.

All of which is fine and dandy except for the little detail that i have NEVER had a motor loan with this company and when I bought the car 16 months ago I paid the garage cash for the car. My reading of this is that someone originally got a loan for this car, sold it to the garage but never paid off the balance of their loan.

Any ideas on the options open to me? I'm actually ok if the bank want to car, it wasnt one of my best buys but I dont want to lose the €8,500 i paid for it. I also dont want my credit rating destroyed cos of someone elses failure to pay their car loan!

jaffa20

Contact a solictor and the dealer who sold you the car with outstanding finance.

slingerz

ya thats what i was thinking alright.

Anyone else have any similar experiences or know of anywhere I can look up for advice?

ladypip

The finance company should have an agreement with the individual not the owner of the car that the finance was purchased for. Have you tried to contact the company in question?

slingerz

ladypip wrote: »

The finance company should have an agreement with the individual not the owner of the car that the finance was purchased for. Have you tried to contact the company in question?

Ya that would make sense too but it appears from my reading of the letter I received that the individual that had the agreement hasnt paid but traded the car in to the car that I bought it from so the bank believe they own my car

I've researched different threads but the all reference a private sale but I bought it was a SIMI dealer so perhaps things should be different. Either way I reckon i'm going to freak at both the dealer and the garage!!!:mad:

Seth Brundle

slingerz wrote: »

Ya that would make sense too but it appears from my reading of the letter I received that the individual that had the agreement hasnt paid but traded the car in to the car that I bought it from so the bank believe they own my car

The bank effectively do own your car!

slingerz wrote: »

I've researched different threads but the all reference a private sale but I bought it was a SIMI dealer so perhaps things should be different. Either way I reckon i'm going to freak at both the dealer and the garage!!!:mad:

SIMI are effectively a lobby group for dealers, etc. They are not there for the public and don't fall for that.
Contact the dealer but also contact a solicitor.

MagicMarker

The bank financed the car, until that finance is paid they have a stake in the car. Just like if you have a mortgage, you technically don't own the house until the mortgage is cleared.

I think you're screwed tbh, they are legally entitled to repossess the car afaik, your issue here is with the dealer you bought it from.

You need to seek legal advice tbh.

Top Dog

When the car was originally traded in it would have been down to the dealer to ensure that all finance was cleared on it, and not sell it on until it was cleared.

Contact the garage & a solicitor as suggested and proceed from there.

Padraig Mor

MagicMarker wrote: »

I think you're screwed tbh, they are legally entitled to repossess the car afaik, your issue here is with the dealer you bought it from.

You need to seek legal advice tbh.

+1

Interesting also that they have your address (did they get it from the garage?) - which would suggest they may repossess sooner rather than later.

BailMeOut

Contact the garage. Something similar happened to me where I was trying to trade in I car I and was told that there was an outstanding loan on it. I contacted the garage I originally purchased it and they sorted it out that day. Turned out to be an error at bank. Garage was all over it as soon as I reported it to them.

Btw: side issue but wouldn't it make sense that banks just holds onto a car's title until paid off just like they do with a house? This way it would be impossible to sell a car with an outstanding load?

blackbird98

The finance company are entitled to repossess the car if there is outstanding monies due.......however, if you bought the car from a reputable dealer, the onus is on the dealer to ensure that there isn't anything owed on the vehicle prior to resale.

You really need to talk to your solicitor, as well as the dealer, and the finance company. Your solicitor can probably get a "stay" on the repo for a while, until this is sorted.

I would give the dealer a bit of grief, as he obviously did not check the financial status of the vehicle. This would have been registered on the bureau, and would have shown up had he bothered to check.....unless he did know about it and didn't say anything....which brings me back to the "reputable" dealer comment.

Also, FWIW, if the car is repossessed, this will not have any bearing on your credit rating, as the finance agreement is not in your name, you are merely the registered keeper.

@Padraig Mor......The OP's details would be available from the vehicle registration office

Absurdum

BailMeOut wrote: »

Btw: side issue but wouldn't it make sense that banks just holds onto a car's title until paid off just like they do with a house? This way it would be impossible to sell a car with an outstanding load?

they could look after speeding, parking and toll fines too :P

squod

Without the car you have no bargaining power to get your money back. Don't be the one to take the hit!

Padraig Mor

blackbird98 wrote: »

@Padraig Mor......The OP's details would be available from the vehicle registration office

Yes, but are they allowed to pass on details to financial institutions? Data protection and all that.....

Absurdum

I wouldn't be parking at my home address if I were you OP...

-Chris-

BailMeOut wrote: »

Btw: side issue but wouldn't it make sense that banks just holds onto a car's title until paid off just like they do with a house? This way it would be impossible to sell a car with an outstanding load?

There isn't actually a title document for a car. There's nothing to hold onto.

The registered owner doesn't have to be the same as the legal owner, and a replacement VLC is easy enough to come by if you're the registered owner.

blackbird98

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Yes, but are they allowed to pass on details to financial institutions? Data protection and all that.....

Yes, as the legal owners of the vehicle, they would have access to this info. the same as they can access all your info regarding loans, mortgages etc, regardless of which financial institution they are with.

Big brother is watching you!!!!

TheZ

Go and see a solicitor.

You are a bona fide purchaser for value without notice of any charge. That is defence against bank.

The garage who took the car in may be held to be holding proceeds on trust for the bank

Secondly to extent you suffer loss you will have claim against the garage that sold it to you.

First thing to do is go to see a solicitor and go back with a very strong letter to warn off the bank and also strong letter from your lawyer to the garage. If you show any kind of weakness they will seek to leverage off that so important you take decent legal advice before responding.

Anan1

I get the impression the OP might be happier for the bank to take the car and the garage to reimburse them. Is this achievable, I wonder?

slingerz

What happens if the dealer has gone out of business in this case?

Seth Brundle

Then its tough luck on the OP.
I doubt that the SIMI would step up to the plate.

slingerz

Surely there is some form of redress for the consumer who has traded with such a business though

listermint

You need to contact a solictor,

You will be going round and round in circles with the forum. Do this first and then update us.

the_barfly1

What a ridiculous setup if i must say so.
I'd imagine that if i got a loan to buy a car, then sell the car, that the onus is on me to pay off the loan with the money i've received in the sale.
What a fcuked up system that theoretically, the next owner can be liable for my loan if i dont pay it off. Ridiculous.

whippet

unfortuantly for the OP this is a situation that isn't new and I have seen some documentaries on BBC and RTE over the last couple of years about this problem.

Each time it was brought up the end game was the same, the Bank have title of the car and they can repossses without any compensation to the current reg owner.

The current holder of the VLC will have to look for redress to the person / garage they bought it from and in turn the Garage / Seller will have to go back to the person previous if that is the case.

In the current climate I would imagine you will have little or no chance of getting redress from a dealer who actually would sell a car like this (either out of business, business name changed, won't answer phone) .. you would have to take them to court and the costs could well exceed what you will be out of pocket for.

The bank may come to a settlement with you, as I am sure they are aware of the current low prices in the car market and the time it might take to sell.

whippet

the_barfly1 wrote: »

What a ridiculous setup if i must say so.
I'd imagine that if i got a loan to buy a car, then sell the car, that the onus is on me to pay off the loan with the money i've received in the sale.
What a fcuked up system that theoretically, the next owner can be liable for my loan if i dont pay it off. Ridiculous.

that is why if buying a second hand car with outstanding finance on it (a basic check should clarify that) I would make out the draft to the finance company to clear the debt myself and confirm with the finance company they no long hold title over the car in question.

Unfortuantly the public at large don't really understand this ... but there is plenty of advise out in the public domain about getting a 'check' done on a car before buying (the likes of Cartell or Motorcheck) and as far as I know if finance is outstanding it flags it as a warning.

Now, if you have gone to the trouble of paying for a motorcheck and choose to ignore a warning about finance there is a degree of culpability.

slingerz

whippet wrote: »

that is why if buying a second hand car with outstanding finance on it (a basic check should clarify that) I would make out the draft to the finance company to clear the debt myself and confirm with the finance company they no long hold title over the car in question.

Unfortuantly the public at large don't really understand this ... but there is plenty of advise out in the public domain about getting a 'check' done on a car before buying (the likes of Cartell or Motorcheck) and as far as I know if finance is outstanding it flags it as a warning.

Now, if you have gone to the trouble of paying for a motorcheck and choose to ignore a warning about finance there is a degree of culpability.

I bought this car from a dealer though who should have the outstanding finance check done. Instead he asaked the previous owner to fill out a questionairre about it where he said there was no outstanding finance on the car.

Now i accept that the bank can take the car but i wont be paying them for it as i've already paid for it with the dealer. the solicitors will deal with it and surely the dealer will be liable for the costs involved of such an action as well as damages for the bank reposessing my car when I havent defaulted on any loans!

-Chris-

What did the solicitor say?

blackbird98

the_barfly1 wrote: »

What a ridiculous setup if i must say so.
I'd imagine that if i got a loan to buy a car, then sell the car, that the onus is on me to pay off the loan with the money i've received in the sale.
What a fcuked up system that theoretically, the next owner can be liable for my loan if i dont pay it off. Ridiculous.

the onus is on you to pay back the money which you borrowed. The next owner is not liable for your loan if you don't pay it, but because the vehicle is used as collateral against your loan, the finance company have a claim on it, and can repossess it from the new owner.

If this were not the case, then you could borrow money for a car, sell it, then pocket the money and not pay it back. How would the finance then recover their loss if they couldn't take the vehicle?

kildare.17hmr

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Yes, but are they allowed to pass on details to financial institutions? Data protection and all that.....

Yes, They also pass on this info to companies like eflow and the nct

slimjimmc

Anan1 wrote: »

I get the impression the OP might be happier for the bank to take the car and the garage to reimburse them. Is this achievable, I wonder?

I'm sure he would, he would have had 16 months cheap motoring free of depreciation costs.

blackbird98 wrote: »

the onus is on you to pay back the money which you borrowed. The next owner is not liable for your loan if you don't pay it, but because the vehicle is used as collateral against your loan, the finance company have a claim on it, and can repossess it from the new owner.

If this were not the case, then you could borrow money for a car, sell it, then pocket the money and not pay it back. How would the finance then recover their loss if they couldn't take the vehicle?

Not only do they have a claim but they still retain legal ownership. The borrower had no authority or right to sell the vehicle without getting formal approval from the legal owner (i.e. the bank).

Absurdum

slimjimmc wrote: »

I'm sure he would, he would have had 16 months cheap motoring free of depreciation costs.

That depends on the garage returning the €8,500 he paid for it!

Yawns

He could claim that's the gaarge's fault for not checking thouroughly beforehand.

Yawns

Oh and yes OP, do not park at home over the next while until you at least get a letter from solictor stating the car will not be repossessed or unless you manage to get your money from garage.

Oh and be as unreasonable as possible with the garage and bank, after all you didn't create this mess. Don't be nice and take a smaller compensate payment from garage or w/e. Demand full monies returned etc.

MagicMarker

Yawns wrote: »

He could claim that's the gaarge's fault for not checking thouroughly beforehand.

And the garage could claim that they made the necessary checks by having the previous owner confirm in writing that there was no outstanding finance on the car.

And so the circle ensues...

panacea

I agree with the previous Bone Fide Purchasor for value without notice post ..... however I was under the impression that the car can be repossessed from any location except from your private property (unless of course you give express permission to enter onto your property to repossess the vehicle.)

Yawns

MagicMarker wrote: »

And the garage could claim that they made the necessary checks by having the previous owner confirm in writing that there was no outstanding finance on the car.

And so the circle ensues...

Ya but in that case they would have to take the original owner to court for damages and the OP would get his money back. I couldn't give 2 figs about the original owner as he is the 1 to blame.

The OP is the innocent party here as he could lose car and his cash. Which btw would happen if he had bought privately afaik. OP a solicitor is your best bet and only hope tbh. Hide the car at a friends for a while and buy a cover for it.

At the end of the day the bank own it and will retrieve it but as long as you have possession of it you can try to get your money back.

Seth Brundle

MagicMarker wrote: »

And the garage could claim that they made the necessary checks by having the previous owner confirm in writing that there was no outstanding finance on the car.

And so the circle ensues...

That doesn't matter. They still didn't have the right to sell it.
In a similar situation, a friend's brother bought a golf from a dealer in Dublin. Several months later, two gardai appeared at his door to take it away. it had been stolen (and IIRC sold to the dealer with forged documents)!
AFAIK he got his money back from the dealer in the end.

JustLen

From the National Consumer Agency Website;

"misleading information to consumers in commercial transactions.
A car dealer must not give misleading material information in relation to any aspect of the car, including its history (such as if the car has been in a crash or "clocked"), its specification, the need for any repair or other work required and so on...

..Withholding, omitting or concealing any material information regarding the main characteristics of a car is also an offence. These offences amount to added protection for consumers if they already know what questions to ask."

Does this mean as long as you ask a dealer specifically wether it has been clocked, wether finace is owed and if all the history is genuine you are covered?
Or could he just argue he didnt know at the time?