Maintenance payments

chucken1

My partner has an 11 year old daughter. He pays 35e a week to her mother. This has been for the last 2 years,before that he was working and paying 100e a week. This was by mutual agreement between him and his daughters mother.

He is now on illness benefit receiving 188 and 124 for me.

His daughters mother is now threatning court action to make him pay more,which he simply cant afford. She works full time.

So,my question is..do courts use a % or how do they calculate a maintainance payment for someone on social welfare?

cee_jay

chucken you may get better answers in Parenting - moving your thread there.

Bubblegums

Hi, I'm not a legal eagle, but have heard first hand, from men with kids that I know, about this kind of thing and it would seem the fairest route is the court if both parents can't agree decently on it. There would be a good chance he'd end up paying less, but best thing is to get proper legal advice, if a trip to a family law solicitor is not affordable then go to your citizens advice office or even, dare I say, local TD for advice.

chucken1

Bubblegums wrote: »

Hi, I'm not a legal eagle, but have heard first hand, from men with kids that I know, about this kind of thing and it would seem the fairest route is the court if both parents can't agree decently on it. There would be a good chance he'd end up paying less, but best thing is to get proper legal advice, if a trip to a family law solicitor is not affordable then go to your citizens advice office or even, dare I say, local TD for advice.

:DI think he might pass on asking the TD's advice!

Ya I suppose citizens advice might be a good call.

Thanks

metrovelvet

Citizens info has given me very wrong information on several occassions.

So have lawyers.

The courts are a crap shoot.

Nevyn

The uk has a maintnce calculator and a sliding scale Ireland doens't have anything like that. Parents are asked to calculate the yearly cost of the child and divide by 52 to get to a number per week and then spit that in two.

Your partner needs to get documentation of all his income and his out goings and a record of previous maintiace made to show the court.

Klingon Hamlet

chucken1 wrote: »

:DI think he might pass on asking the TD's advice!

Ya I suppose citizens advice might be a good call.

Thanks

Being on benefits, your partner will be entitled to legal aid, i.e. pay €50 and have the rest of his legal bills covered by the state. Get him to contact his local legal aid centre and they'll handle the rest.

Courts take everything into account: how much he spends on his children, how much money he has left to live on. Judges are human beings too, they know that especially now people are broke. €35 a week isn't much but then the money he's getting is next to nothing.

Wishing you all the best:)

chucken1

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

Being on benefits, your partner will be entitled to legal aid, i.e. pay €50 and have the rest of his legal bills covered by the state. Get him to contact his local legal aid centre and they'll handle the rest.

Courts take everything into account: how much he spends on his children, how much money he has left to live on. Judges are human beings too, they know that especially now people are broke. €35 a week isn't much but then the money he's getting is next to nothing.

Wishing you all the best:)

He is already using legal aid to get a divorce (2 yrs on and not a move on it)
So should he mention the maintainance to them? Before the divorce hearing...if it ever happens!

Its very easy for him to give the court his weekly outgoings..in one hand,out the other.

Klingon Hamlet

chucken1 wrote: »

He is already using legal aid to get a divorce (2 yrs on and not a move on it)
So should he mention the maintainance to them? Before the divorce hearing...if it ever happens!

Its very easy for him to give the court his weekly outgoings..in one hand,out the other.

Absolutely, it's all part of the ame thing really...surely she knows he can't afford to pay more!

chucken1

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

Absolutely, it's all part of the ame thing really...surely she knows he can't afford to pay more!

The woman has no grasp of reality as far as I can see

RichMc70

Hi Chucken,

Have been through similar situation myself and although I can't directly answer your question, I'll tell you of my experience and hope that it helps in some way.

I was paying €500 per month maintenance, for years. I became unemployed but still carried on paying the €500 for some time because I was hoping the unemployment would be short term. I was wrong. After being on the dole for six months I asked my daughters mother to consider a reduction due to my circumstances. She flatly refused to accept any possibility of a reduction. She ignored my letters and when I was collecting my daughter for access, she would not even speak to me or alternatively let her mother deal with it (she had moved back to her parents at this stage).

I was getting €196 dole a week and paying out €115 a week maintenance. Eventually I applied for a Variation of Maintenance via the District Court. A hearing date was set, but on the morning of the hearing she telephoned the court to say she couldn't make it because of illness (a blatant lie or a miraculous recovery time, as she was out at the pub the very same evening).

At the next hearing, she did appear at court along with a legal aid solicitor. I was representing myself. Before the judge was to hear the application, her solicitor was trying to negotiate with me. Eventually, under duress from her own solicitor, she accepted a lower amount and a new court order was drawn up for €180 per month.

Her rage at me was incandescent to say the least and for the following two months I didn't get to see my daughter once including the Christmas period. Eventually she relented but only after receiving a summons to return to the district court.

When I did eventually get back into work, I increased the maintenance, which I had promised her I would.

As for my daughters mother, well she's doing pretty well really. She got a big redundancy payment, gets jobseekers benefit, single parent benefit, rent supplement, fuel allowance, child benefit and €450p/m maintenance. Oh and I nearly forgot she also gets cash in the hand from a part-time job she does.

If your partner can't afford to pay more than he is then maybe it's a good thing to go to court and I'd actually go as far to say that I'd instigate the court action before the ex does. When there's no legally binding agreement in place then things can turn ugly. I find it better to have a legally endorsed/enforced agreement that a) sets out your obligations and b) clearly sets out the requirements to both parties.

If you do go to court then be sure to make an application for a court order on Access matters as well.

Best of luck.

chucken1

Thanks Rich.
Well her ladyship even refused to apply for one parent family allowence :rolleyes:

But when she goes and overspends,she expects him to pick up the slack..and he simply cant do it anymore. (She spent 200e last week on the childs birthday party and he had to pay half as well as a present)

He's only 42 and has suffered 5 heart attacks and this is driving him over the edge.

Hes doing his best,he's a great father.

She gives out if he doesnt take their daughter to feckin Mc Donalds when he has her..As badly off as we are,we do have food in the house for her!!

*rant over*

metrovelvet

RichMc70 wrote: »

Hi Chucken,

Have been through similar situation myself and although I can't directly answer your question, I'll tell you of my experience and hope that it helps in some way.

I was paying €500 per month maintenance, for years. I became unemployed but still carried on paying the €500 for some time because I was hoping the unemployment would be short term. I was wrong. After being on the dole for six months I asked my daughters mother to consider a reduction due to my circumstances. She flatly refused to accept any possibility of a reduction. She ignored my letters and when I was collecting my daughter for access, she would not even speak to me or alternatively let her mother deal with it (she had moved back to her parents at this stage).

I was getting €196 dole a week and paying out €115 a week maintenance. Eventually I applied for a Variation of Maintenance via the District Court. A hearing date was set, but on the morning of the hearing she telephoned the court to say she couldn't make it because of illness (a blatant lie or a miraculous recovery time, as she was out at the pub the very same evening).

At the next hearing, she did appear at court along with a legal aid solicitor. I was representing myself. Before the judge was to hear the application, her solicitor was trying to negotiate with me. Eventually, under duress from her own solicitor, she accepted a lower amount and a new court order was drawn up for €180 per month.

Her rage at me was incandescent to say the least and for the following two months I didn't get to see my daughter once including the Christmas period. Eventually she relented but only after receiving a summons to return to the district court.

When I did eventually get back into work, I increased the maintenance, which I had promised her I would.

As for my daughters mother, well she's doing pretty well really. She got a big redundancy payment, gets jobseekers benefit, single parent benefit, rent supplement, fuel allowance, child benefit and €450p/m maintenance. Oh and I nearly forgot she also gets cash in the hand from a part-time job she does.

If your partner can't afford to pay more than he is then maybe it's a good thing to go to court and I'd actually go as far to say that I'd instigate the court action before the ex does. When there's no legally binding agreement in place then things can turn ugly. I find it better to have a legally endorsed/enforced agreement that a) sets out your obligations and b) clearly sets out the requirements to both parties.

If you do go to court then be sure to make an application for a court order on Access matters as well.

Best of luck.

You cant get jobseekers and single parent at the same time. And if she is getting rent supplement all the maintenace you pay her is being deducted from that so she isnt seeing a penny of the first 90 per week of what you pay in child maintenance.

RichMc70

Be sure to keep receipts and records of every single cent that he is spending in relation to his daughter.

Nothing wrong with home cooked food, certainly better that McD's anyway.

I feel for both of you as I know the worry and stress these situations can bring about.

The sooner you can get into the court, the sooner you can move on with a clear direction and concentrating on your partners health and hopefully start enjoying life again.

January

metrovelvet wrote: »

You cant get jobseekers and single parent at the same time. And if she is getting rent supplement all the maintenace you pay her is being deducted from that so she isnt seeing a penny of the first 90 per week of what you pay in child maintenance.

You can get OPF and half rate JSB together though. For a period of time, if you're entitled to it.

RichMc70

January wrote: »

You can get OPF and half rate JSB together though. For a period of time, if you're entitled to it.

And you can get a lot more when you are being liberal with your financial disclosures to the welfare.

metrovelvet

RichMc70 wrote: »

And you can get a lot more when you are being liberal with your financial disclosures to the welfare.

Yes but that is fraud, not an entitlement so its misleading to suggest that that this is standard and above board.

For the first year of unemployment she is entitled to half jsa while on one parent and her maintenance is not in ADDITION to rent allowance but partitioned with it towards housing. So its not the goldmine you are painting it out to be.

Kids cost money. While its all ok to say 'I can only afford x' when you are at the Tesco till paying for the groceries, the tesco till person doesnt give a **** what you can and cant afford. You have to pay for that stuff.

RichMc70

metrovelvet wrote: »

Yes but that is fraud, not an entitlement so its misleading to suggest that that this is standard and above board.

For the first year of unemployment she is entitled to half jsa while on one parent and her maintenance is not in ADDITION to rent allowance but partitioned with it towards housing. So its not the goldmine you are painting it out to be.

Kids cost money. While its all ok to say 'I can only afford x' when you are at the Tesco till paying for the groceries, the tesco till person doesnt give a **** what you can and cant afford. You have to pay for that stuff.

I don't see how this is helping the OP.

And yes it is fraud. The fact I stated she also works 'cash in hand' would surely have alerted you to the nature of the person I was referring to.

My post was a personal experience and not a generalisation. Every situation is different.

amiable

Hi Chucken, he seems like a good Dad alright. My advice to him would be to go down the legal route and have it set in paper. Put it all out there cos as you said he has nothing to hide.
The most important thing is that he keeps being a good Dad as i'm sure he will.
Best of luck OP and keep the chin up and be positive

chucken1

amiable wrote: »

Hi Chucken, he seems like a good Dad alright. My advice to him would be to go down the legal route and have it set in paper. Put it all out there cos as you said he has nothing to hide.
The most important thing is that he keeps being a good Dad as i'm sure he will.
Best of luck OP and keep the chin up and be positive

Thanks for that

We just had a big chat about the situation and he's going to get on to legal aid asap.

(showing him this thread helped , I think he thought he was alone in the battle)

amiable

chucken1 wrote: »

Thanks for that

We just had a big chat about the situation and he's going to get on to legal aid asap.

(showing him this thread helped , I think he thought he was alone in the battle)

Good work OP. Keep it up cos he'll need the support and there may be some hard times ahead but it will all be worth it in the end

Fittle

RichMc70 wrote: »

Hi Chucken,

As for my daughters mother, well she's doing pretty well really. She got a big redundancy payment, gets jobseekers benefit, single parent benefit, rent supplement, fuel allowance, child benefit and €450p/m maintenance. Oh and I nearly forgot she also gets cash in the hand from a part-time job she does.

Best of luck.

If she got a redundancy payment, she wouldn't have gotten jobseekers or single parent benefit straight away...SW aren't stupid and they ask for bank details:rolleyes: Also, as the 450pm is court ordered, SW can trace it, so all her 'benefit's would be means tested based on this maintenance too. Perhaps she needs to work in the part time job? Metrovelvet is right - it's not the goldmine you're portraying here.

Anyway OP, your ex needs to go down the legal route here - glad he decided to. The judge will most certainly reduce the maintenance based on his new lower income.

wolfpawnat

RichMc70 wrote: »

I was paying €500 per month maintenance, for years.

You were paying a fortune to begin with, fair dues to you, but I have to be honest and say that your daughter would never have cost your partner €1,000 a month. No doubt she got accustomed to a good lifestyle and that is why she got mad no doubt!

metrovelvet wrote: »

You cant get jobseekers and single parent at the same time. And if she is getting rent supplement all the maintenace you pay her is being deducted from that so she isnt seeing a penny of the first 90 per week of what you pay in child maintenance.

Was going to reply but January got there before me


OP, the judge will know that since he is on very little SW he cannot fork out too much for the child. And being the one to go to court for it and to prove it is not that he does not want to pay but rather that he cannot also is in his favour!

Have a full list of yer expenditure both what ye get into the house and what is paid out, give it as accurately as possible and that will make it easier to see what your partner can afford and a judge will make a decision on that!

amiable

wolfpawnat wrote: »

You were paying a fortune to begin with, fair dues to you, but I have to be honest and say that your daughter would never have cost your partner €1,000 a month. No doubt she got accustomed to a good lifestyle and that is why she got mad no doubt!



Was going to reply but January got there before me


OP, the judge will know that since he is on very little SW he cannot fork out too much for the child. And being the one to go to court for it and to prove it is not that he does not want to pay but rather that he cannot also is in his favour!

Have a full list of yer expenditure both what ye get into the house and what is paid out, give it as accurately as possible and that will make it easier to see what your partner can afford and a judge will make a decision on that!

Not true. Far from true. It costs at least 1000euro to feed, clothe, heat and provide a safe and proper home for a child through renting or mortgage each month. Some people need a car. Fuel for the car. Tax insurance everyday costs. Treats for the child. Holidays. Trips to the cinema. School fees. School tours. Sports/Music/Dance equipment.
Oh my i could go on and on.

amiable

In saying all that if people are struggling i don't expect holidays and lavish things. But if people are working i think kids deserve nice things

wolfpawnat

amiable wrote: »

Not true. Far from true. It costs at least 1000euro to feed, clothe, heat and provide a safe and proper home for a child through renting or mortgage each month. Some people need a car. Fuel for the car. Tax insurance everyday costs. Treats for the child. Holidays. Trips to the cinema. School fees. School tours. Sports/Music/Dance equipment.
Oh my i could go on and on.

I am forced to get by on a 800 a month for myself and my child, after rent! His father is in college and cannot pay anything at the moment nor will he be able to for another 3 and a half years at least. I am not saying everyone should have to get by with as little as I do, but it is not 1000 a month! Unless they are in a private school!

My mother used to get 400e a month for myself and my sister. And that was only 4 years ago!

metrovelvet

Wolfpawnat-

The child's age has to come into play too. Feeding a 16 year old is different from feeding a two year old and so is clothing them.

You have to consider particulars too of the child, if there are health problems, special requirements, etc. If you have family helping out with childcare, bits and bobs for the child, etc etc.

amiable

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I am forced to get by on a 800 a month for myself and my child, after rent! His father is in college and cannot pay anything at the moment nor will he be able to for another 3 and a half years at least. I am not saying everyone should have to get by with as little as I do, but it is not 1000 a month! Unless they are in a private school!

My mother used to get 400e a month for myself and my sister. And that was only 4 years ago!

I tried to touch on that with my next post. I think its all relevant. If both parents can't afford these things its logical payments have to be reduced. But i don't think if a person was in a good job that 500euro per month would be a fortune. If things aren't a struggle its not about paying exactly half what a child costs each month If both parents can put there problems aside and work things out

wolfpawnat

metrovelvet wrote: »

Wolfpawnat-

The child's age has to come into play too. Feeding a 16 year old is different from feeding a two year old and so is clothing them.

You have to consider particulars too of the child, if there are health problems, special requirements, etc. If you have family helping out with childcare, bits and bobs for the child, etc etc.

What I save on school stuffs I have to spend on formula foods and clothes for a growing toddler. The OP never specified the childs age. And feeding a 2 year old is expensive too. They need 3 meals a day and snacks, but they are not able to tell you what they want to eat and you can end up using as much food as a teenager then.

My sister and I were both in our teens and I was in college and living away from home and all my mother got was 50 a week each. And that was court ordered!

amiable

metrovelvet wrote: »

Wolfpawnat-

The child's age has to come into play too. Feeding a 16 year old is different from feeding a two year old and so is clothing them.

You have to consider particulars too of the child, if there are health problems, special requirements, etc. If you have family helping out with childcare, bits and bobs for the child, etc etc.

Very good points. Nobody is saying if a parent is skint they should just get the money any way the can.
if a parent has fallen on hard times all they can do is do the best they can by their children and it seems the OP has in this case

wolfpawnat

amiable wrote: »

I tried to touch on that with my next post. I think its all relevant. If both parents can't afford these things its logical payments have to be reduced. But i don't think if a person was in a good job that 500euro per month would be a fortune. If things aren't a struggle its not about paying exactly half what a child costs each month If both parents can put there problems aside and work things out

Oh if the person is a well paid professional of course the child should be given more money, after all it would give them a better standard of living and that is what every parent would want..... surely?