Remington R-15 AR rifle

niteowl84

Hi im just wondering does anyone have or know anything about this rifle as im thinking about getting one in .223,like are they good? Is it easy to get a license for them and how much are they? and any more info would be much appreciated?

Thanks

Cass

Here is a thread on the very subject with most/all the info you need.

Also to mention from the offset, they are a restrcited firearm (being a semi auto centrefire) so you will need to apply for a restricted license.

Grizzly 45

They are made by DPMS Arms for Remington.So are they good?With everyone and their dog making copies of the AR platform,or its correct term a "Modular repeating rifle" in the US,Germany and of course now ,China!:eek:.They are still one of the better AR style platforms.No one seems to be reporting any major issues with them.

Is it easy to get a liscense for them..
Depends on how bad does your local CS suffer of "Idonlikedelookodat" syndrome. And how or how poisioned he/she is by the misinformation from our old friends in the Garda ballistics,and DOJ who see anything without a bolt action or side by side barrels as a deadly 100,000 rounds a second two mile pinpoint accurate killing machine gun.That should be only used by trained professionals in the Gardai or Army.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Price,about 1500 new for the R15 and 1650 for the R25

niteowl84

it doesnt say much about them,what kind of restrictions are we talking about?

Tackleberrywho

niteowl84 wrote: »

it doesnt say much about them,what kind of restrictions are we talking about?

Semi Auto Centrefire

There is an Australian Dude on here who has one, Surprised he has not raised his head yet

Cass

There are no restrictions as such on the rifle (unless the CS imposes some), but rather a restricted license which means the Chief Super will access your application rather than the Super.

It is a classification put on the rifle due to it being a semi auto and a centrefire. These firearms are automatically restricted in nature.

niteowl84

Thanks for all the help people im going to a gun shop saturday to enquire about it so ill let ye know if ye want,thanks again

gunhappy_ie

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

They are made by DPMS Arms for Remington.So are they good?With everyone and their dog making copies of the AR platform,or its correct term a "Modular repeating rifle" in the US,Germany and of course now ,China!:eek:.They are still one of the better AR style platforms.No one seems to be reporting any major issues with them.

Is it easy to get a liscense for them..
Depends on how bad does your local CS suffer of "Idonlikedelookodat" syndrome. And how or how poisioned he/she is by the misinformation from our old friends in the Garda ballistics,and DOJ who see anything without a bolt action or side by side barrels as a deadly 100,000 rounds a second two mile pinpoint accurate killing machine gun.That should be only used by trained professionals in the Gardai or Army.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Price,about 1500 new for the R15 and 1650 for the R25

Except that DPMS make them :P:P:P:P

Grizzly 45

Could be worse..Like Olly[lympic] arms. Or Model 11.:eek:

beretta686s

know a guy who has 1 fully auto sum job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gunhappy_ie

beretta686s wrote: »

know a guy who has 1 fully auto sum job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ERRRR... no you dont ... there not made F/A

harmoniums

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

ERRRR... no you dont ... there not made F/A

He may have illegally put in a DIAS (drop in auto sear)
That'll get you 10 years in federal prison here in the states, I assume its treated just seriously in Ireland.

Grizzly 45

Wont work ASFIK on the newr AR style rifles .The bolt carrier group /trigger mechanism has been modified to prevent M16/M4 select fire trigger packs and bolt carriers being fitted.As well as the drop in auto sear,only worked from SAFE to Full Auto.About as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike.

gunhappy_ie

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Wont work ASFIK on the newr AR style rifles .The bolt carrier group /trigger mechanism has been modified to prevent M16/M4 select fire trigger packs and bolt carriers being fitted.As well as the drop in auto sear,only worked from SAFE to Full Auto.About as much as an ashtray on a motorbike.

ya got there before me :P

Remember guys, despite public belief US laws are strict about there firearms manufacture.

Firearms while may externally resemble there Full auto counterparts, over the years alot has gone into them to make sure its as hard as possible to convert the newer style firearms into F/A guns.

While it could be done, its not as simple as dropping in a sear. An excellent knowledge of firearms is required as well as a well equipt machine shop.

Ohhh and of course like most civilian firearms, there barrels arent designed to run F/A so they wouldnt last p!ssin time.

harmoniums

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Wont work ASFIK on the newr AR style rifles .The bolt carrier group /trigger mechanism has been modified to prevent M16/M4 select fire trigger packs and bolt carriers being fitted.As well as the drop in auto sear,only worked from SAFE to Full Auto.About as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike.

there was an airsoft gun with a lower receiver that was more or less exactly like an M4 (the Japanese liek to be as realistic as possible), the ATF had their import stopped as you could just add in the lower parts and slp on an upper and have an unregistered illegal machine gun!

Grizzly 45

harmoniums wrote: »

there was an airsoft gun with a lower receiver that was more or less exactly like an M4 (the Japanese liek to be as realistic as possible), the ATF had their import stopped as you could just add in the lower parts and slp on an upper and have an unregistered illegal machine gun!

Quite frankly it is a large load of Bull manure!
A bit of googling will give you where or who orginated the story.

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/why-do-atf-employees-question-fitness-of-agent-toy-gun-seizure

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk8-ePGqBmM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPx_kr44r9M&feature=related
Put this guy in about the same category as the DEA agent who shot himself in the leg in a classroom in Florida espousing safe gun handling!

Nor would I take ATF as being 100% honest on things either. After such FUBARs of Waco and Ruby Ridge and the lies that they told about firearms there and were caught out on. I would put, as would most American gun owners and right thinking people put them down somplace in the scum leauge way below the Stasi and Gestapo! So some ATFE mouth breathing goon coming up with this wouldnt surprise me.:mad:

For could it be done ..two threads here
http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=16733.0;prev_next=prev#new

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=6495087

As somone with extensive experiance of this type of gun. Comparing them to pot metal toys,there is no way this can be done.Sure you can machine up a billet of aluminium to make a lower,somone has built one out of metal bits bolted together as well.There is even one made out of high tensile polymer ala Glocks or whatever pistol.But Pot metal??That is specifically why they are made like that so that the pressures will at best break,at worst explode any such conversion.Not to mind they might look exactly the same,go take a caliper and micrometer to them for the real critical differences.;)

Not to mind for it to be a full auto you do need a full autoM16 trigger kit,bolt carrier,and bolt.All class 3 items that are only shipped on return of original parts and paperwork from the registerd Fed liscensed owner.
IOW not a simple procedure to aquire the bits.
There was a time back in the 1980s where there were surplus M16 bolt groups and trigger packs on the civillian market.You could have either/or installed in your gun.IE a bolt group,but not the trigger group without it being classed as a Full auto.
That was until the BATF got in the act and arrested contray to then law numerous gun owners and charged them with possesion of illegal machine guns!The MacKlure Volkmer act pretty much ended this surplus trade of M16 parts and the drop in auto sear.

So unless you have an illegal M16 parts kit lying around, or an unregisterd M16 upper.WTF would you be wasting your time with fooling around with a pot metal TOY:eek:,when you could make for your self 100% legally an unknown unregisterd[which you can do in the US ,make a firearm for yourself.Provided you NEVER sell it or pass it on to a 2nd party] lower reciver for your illegal parts kit or upper?

Dont belive everything you hear or read in the National Enquirer over there !!:D:D;)

dax121

niteowl84 wrote: »

Hi im just wondering does anyone have or know anything about this rifle as im thinking about getting one in .223,like are they good? Is it easy to get a license for them and how much are they? and any more info would be much appreciated?

Thanks

hi i have one
and i must say its a nice bit of kit. the licence depends on ur CS mine at the time didnt mind rifles just hated centre fire pistols as he told me at the interview. their about 1600 give or take 50.
i got mine in john o briens in co waterford. he had 4 of them in stock at one stage. think he may still have 1.
ive shot all kinds thru it. but i decided to go with american eagle because it was cheap and cheerful. and not bad grouping 5 shots a inch group.
i also ran wolf thru it and no problem with it and thats **** ammo in fairness.
i cant fault the gun. so i say go for it

harmoniums

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Quite frankly it is a large load of Bull manure!
A bit of googling will give you where or who orginated the story.

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/why-do-atf-employees-question-fitness-of-agent-toy-gun-seizure

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk8-ePGqBmM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPx_kr44r9M&feature=related
Put this guy in about the same category as the DEA agent who shot himself in the leg in a classroom in Florida espousing safe gun handling!

Nor would I take ATF as being 100% honest on things either. After such FUBARs of Waco and Ruby Ridge and the lies that they told about firearms there and were caught out on. I would put, as would most American gun owners and right thinking people put them down somplace in the scum leauge way below the Stasi and Gestapo! So some ATFE mouth breathing goon coming up with this wouldnt surprise me.:mad:

For could it be done ..two threads here
http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=16733.0;prev_next=prev#new

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=6495087

As somone with extensive experiance of this type of gun. Comparing them to pot metal toys,there is no way this can be done.Sure you can machine up a billet of aluminium to make a lower,somone has built one out of metal bits bolted together as well.There is even one made out of high tensile polymer ala Glocks or whatever pistol.But Pot metal??That is specifically why they are made like that so that the pressures will at best break,at worst explode any such conversion.Not to mind they might look exactly the same,go take a caliper and micrometer to them for the real critical differences.;)

Not to mind for it to be a full auto you do need a full autoM16 trigger kit,bolt carrier,and bolt.All class 3 items that are only shipped on return of original parts and paperwork from the registerd Fed liscensed owner.
IOW not a simple procedure to aquire the bits.
There was a time back in the 1980s where there were surplus M16 bolt groups and trigger packs on the civillian market.You could have either/or installed in your gun.IE a bolt group,but not the trigger group without it being classed as a Full auto.
That was until the BATF got in the act and arrested contray to then law numerous gun owners and charged them with possesion of illegal machine guns!The MacKlure Volkmer act pretty much ended this surplus trade of M16 parts and the drop in auto sear.

So unless you have an illegal M16 parts kit lying around, or an unregisterd M16 upper.WTF would you be wasting your time with fooling around with a pot metal TOY:eek:,when you could make for your self 100% legally an unknown unregisterd[which you can do in the US ,make a firearm for yourself.Provided you NEVER sell it or pass it on to a 2nd party] lower reciver for your illegal parts kit or upper?

Dont belive everything you hear or read in the National Enquirer over there !!:D:D;)

Here in the states, most bolt groups for sale to civilians are full auto.
(I've built about 10 ARs)
M16 parts kits for sale here:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?p=LX9KW&i=169396

No paper work, no requirements to be law enforcement or anything.

I guess, I'm right.

gunhappy_ie

harmoniums wrote: »

Here in the states, most bolt groups for sale to civilians are full auto.
(I've built about 10 ARs)
M16 parts kits for sale here:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?p=LX9KW&i=169396

No paper work, no requirements to be law enforcement or anything.

I guess, I'm right.

It still requires alot to make it work.

Grizzly 45

harmoniums wrote: »

Here in the states, most bolt groups for sale to civilians are full auto.
(I've built about 10 ARs)
M16 parts kits for sale here:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?p=LX9KW&i=169396

No paper work, no requirements to be law enforcement or anything.

I guess, I'm right.

REalllyyyyy??????????? from the ad itself.
Complete M16A1 Parts Kits, everything but the receiver and disconnector


Seeing that you are in CA...Maybe a read of this??
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=83237

A very good reply from an attorney
Thread here
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=68735
Thanks for the replies. LMT it will be.

As for why I want a semi-auto only, I am not comfortable with the legality of it. I am an attorney, though not specialized in firearms law. I have done some research on the issue, including talking to my local ATF agent. The following is the results of my research and is my personal conclusion (i.e. I am not your attorney and this not legal advice, CYA done).

I realize the consensus on here is that the full auto carriers are legal, I have read the discussions, and I have seen the letters from the ATF. I personally believe they should be legal, and I know there are valid reasons for having the heavier BCG. However, the ATF's position on the subject is not clear which doesn't satisfy me to a legal certainty.

I think the ATF is deliberately vague on the issue because it allows flexibility in prosecuting people. The ATF letters are not posted as official rulings on their website. I view these letters as analagous to other regulatory agencies which issue "letters" and "rulings." Rulings apply generally and can be relied on by anyone. Letters are written to specific entities and can only be relied upon by the receipient as a get out of jail free card. So it's likely only Colt can rely on the letter to be sure they are not violating the law.

The only generally applicable guidance I could find was ATF P 5300.4 which states: "In order to avoid violations of the NFA, M16 hammers, triggers, disconnectors, selectors and bolt carriers must not be used in assembly of AR-15 type semiautomatic rifles, unless the M16 parts have been modified to AR-15 Model SP1 configuration." This conflicts with the letters. Again, I think the ATF has not deliberately not resolved the conflict in order to give them the flexibility in prosecuting criminals. If you go trial on this issue, the ATF is going to say the "official" pub told him not to use the full auto carrier. If you pull out the Colt letter, the ATF will argue that only applied to Colt and can't be used as a defense. Depending on the judge, a jury may never see that letter, but they will see 5300.4.

Finally, I talked to my friendly local ATF agent (truly, he was very friendly). He said "to be on the safe side" don't put it in there. Part of his reasoning was that it's very difficult to turn a semi-auto carrier into a full-auto carrier. I assume the difficulty involves adding the missing metal. He said that modifying the other parts are relatively easily if you know where to look on the internet. Having a full-auto carrier shows intent and puts you in danger of having a "readily restored" machinegun which is the same as having a machinegun to the ATF.

What is the likelihood of getting charged for having one? I think it is likely someone who gets busted for drugs or some other federal crime would be charged with having an illegal machinegun simply for having a full-auto carrier. I've done some work for the US attorney's office and they typically pile on as many charges as they can think of. Firearms confiscated are routinely sent to the ATF for examination. If you are a meth dealer sitting in federal court, a jury will not be too sympathetic about the ridiculousness of being charged with having a machinegun because you had a full-auto carrier. All they will hear is meth dealer and full-auto.

What about someone like me: a reservist, no criminal record, no drugs, a family man, a recreational shooter? First, why would a fed be interested in me at all? Second, a jury will like me more. They would listen to my defense and my expert. So, it is more likely than not I would be ok with a full-auto carrier.

But, and it is a big but, why risk it at all? Just because the ATF's all-seeing great flaming eye (geek reference) isn't focused on this issue right now doesn't mean it can't suddenly decide to make an issue of it. I personally don't feel comfortable with the legality of it until I see a ruling. The expense and stress of a trial, even a successful one, is horrendous. Federal pound you in the a** prison is not where I want to spend any amount of time. There are few attorneys who understand firearms and finding one to adequately defend you would be hard and expensive. Most of my fellow attorneys lean far to the left and view "thundersticks" as malign entities.

Again, I do not specialize in firearms laws. I know there are some attorneys who do, and they may have more in depth knowledge on the subject. Sorry for the uber-reply, but I thought I would give as complete answer as I can give.


http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=188507


Etc,etc,etc,etc.

Now,this can be argued up and down .backwards and forwards as these threads will go.However I'd rather err very much on the side of caution on firearms,especially these types of firearms in the USA and ESPECIALLY in CA!!! It is an extremely anal state on gun laws and any other personal freedoms,[apart from sex between consenting adults of the same sex!]
Its one reason I left and moved to Arizona!The appaling by US stds gun laws.
Mucking around with firearms laws and especially with the ATF goons is NOT a very good idea in the US.They WILL throw you in jail on the slightest whim and good luck to you trying to sort out that mess out,when they freeze your bank accounts,tear apart and impound your house,jail your better half as an accessory and put your kids in foster care..

Think I'm exaggerating??Just google enough cases of ATF mis application of excessive force,or have a read of a book called Entrapment,by Bill Holmes [decsed].Holmes was a professional gun maker in Arkansas and was harrassed by ATFE for over a decade because he wanted payment for guns made for the US govt.
"Land of the Free" and "justice for all"....HAH!!Not with the ATF

Personally,I wouldnt give them the excuse and have anything remotly like a full auto part within a 100 miles of my house were I still living over there ,unless it was a properly regd title3 weapon.
It doesnt matter wether you have built 1,10 or 1000 ARs,if they want to f"""k with you they can and will big time!!!

Ask Sabre defence USA,they are now in recivership,because the Feds dropped in to audit them for six weeks,locked them down because some numpties were smuggling out parts for making FA weapons to sell in Mexico!!This is a multi million dollar military contract govt supplying company!!!If they can be shut down what chance do you have???
BTW the company is up for sale on Feb14th,the bank pulled out on them so they are selling it.

Put it like this having a STEN kit and a piece of exhaust pipe at your place of work,has got people banged up for INTENT to manufacture an illegal SMG! What do you think they would do with you with an AR15 component shop and surplus M16 parts???

Now you might be "Right" ,well and good,I belive you.However it wont be me that needs convincing.It will be the black clad,balaclava wearing ATFE storntooper who has got you on the floor handcuffed at 4AM with a HK SMG stuck in your face,with an itchy trigger finger while his buddies take sledge hammers to your house,in the search for illegal guns.:eek:

Honestly dont muck around with anything remotly possibly concieved as class3 over there.

Cass

LADS,

This thread has gone WAY off topic. This is not the US. The OP asked for an opinion on a particular type of firearm NOT if it could be converted into a full auto or what the laws in the US state on the matter.

All threads go somewhat off topic, nature of the beast, but with this level of diversion the thread has lost its point.

To the end, thread closed pending review by the mod team.