New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

BKWDR

TO. wrote: »

I was there for the last 3 weeks and am moving over in the next 6 weeks. Hazys I think is the only one right now of us Pats fans who is living there right now.

Cool, i spent a few weeks there last year.Off season though, went to Foxboro stadium though. Have to say i loved Boston city. Looking forward to getting back again next year, hopefully for a game!

ReacherCreature

This 'In Bill We Trust' is a bit outdated. I used to proclaim it but it's a bit tiresome now.

Few concerns: the young wideouts and the stock in them, the thin TE/DL/LB depth, how the secondary will cope.

In Bill We Trust doesn't write off our awful secondary of the past two years, the questionable free agency moves (Haynesworth, Tebow, Ocho too?) and what ever other problems we've had. It's a bit delusional. I'd rather see tough discussion of the team's issues.

Masked Man

How is Tebow a questionable FA move?

Son Of A Vidic

We all know Belichick is heading for the HOF and will go down as one of the greatest football coaches to grace the game. But the 'In Bill We Trust' mindset doesn't really exist in this forum imo, but it certainly does elsewhere. Our Secondary remains dire because we have no cover. Lose our starters there and we're fúcked. I was delighted to see Cole cut and what happens? He's back again. Arrington was overpaid in his new contract. The moves we made for young WR's this year, I wanted to happen last year. So that's a year of potential development wasted imo. That said, we have potentially landed a batch of gems at WR, gems that were not there last year.

I was hoping we'd ship Welker last year, but we didn't. And as much as I loved Wes and his service to the team. Once Gronk was out, opponents just flooded the middle and limited what Wes could do there. I wanted to see a move from runty sized receivers towards a bigger, stronger and more athletic options long before now. Thankfully we might just have them now in Dobson and Thompkins. We have long need to add some outside/deeper options threats. It should have happened sooner, but at least it has happened.

Looking at our back ups and coverage, we have a lot of unproven guys in there. Our UDFA's DT's Vellano and Francis are unproven, but Vellano did enough to push Forston out. The good thing about these guys is they appear to be hard working with high motor players. I have a particularly good feeling about Francis for some reason. He is a nice size with good long arms. But only time will tell if they justify a spot. At DE Bequette had his best in game in a Pats jersey against the Giants. He came very close when playing against the Giants starters, to getting a couple of sacks on Manning. I was surprised by his energy in that game, so hopefully he can maintain it.

The backfield is my biggest concern. If we lose Dennard to legal issues and Talib to his usual injury related absences during a season? Then we are totally screwed. We don't want 'DPI' Arrington playing CB. At Safety, god help us if we lose McCourty. Gregory needs to step up, because he had some nightmare games last season. Tavon Wilson needs a miracle it improve at this stage, his preseason was that bad. Harmon has already passed him out. Ya, so it looks like once again it could be all on Brady to out score our opponents. And with what is basically a rookie offense, that's a big ask even for God.

eagle eye

I'm sticking with the 'In Bill we trust' because we were in the playoffs again last year and at one stage were favourites for the Superbowl. There is no such thing as perfection in American football but Belichick comes pretty damn close to it because we always have a winning record and we have been in the playoffs almost every year.

Some time soon we are going to have HFA all the way to the Superbowl and arrive there with all our elite players in good shape and we will win it then. There is a chance that it won't happen but there is no other team that has been in contention and so close so often since we won the last of our three Superbowls, all of which have come under his stewardship.

TO.

Thing is though the AFC is the biggest load of cock of a conference as is the AFC East. Its at the point now where making the playoffs is relatively easy for the Pats. At some point the rest of the AFC will catch up with the big AFC teams and rock the boat. And when that time comes are the Pats going to have strength in depth for harder opposition.

Our biggest problem is the lack of depth. Also in recent years we fall down to teams who physically beat the Pats up. Giants being prime example. 49ers, Seahawks etc etc you get the idea. All these teams are in the category of having extremely physical defenses.

You look at our weak areas right now when it comes to depth. Secondary and our D-line. 2 key elements we need to fix and make more physical as the decent guys we have cannot do it on their own as they are playing beside average guys or being backed up by average guys.

The Pats set the bar in the last 12 years and its now at the point that anything less than a Bowl win is not a good season. Now many say oh we will have bad patches and its not our year or we did ok but realistically a pro team should never have that attitude and neither should us fans. I do believe that unless we win the Bowl it was a bad season.

I know Bill and Tom and co go into every season wanting to win but I do believe that Bill has to improve on his own body of work to get us back winning bowls. And the right personnel is a key issue in this.

bruschi

Yeah I'm gone from the 'In Bill We Trust' mantra too. Reason being, is at times I felt he was being too stubborn to change his ways, in a manner that a lot of sports coaches across the board do. When players needed help or addtions to the roster, and the media put the pressure on, Bill would always relent and show that he knew best and what he did worked. Fine, most times it would, but other times it didnt.

Yes we have been sucessful, but since our 3 wins in the mid noughties, we have left behind, IMO 3 superbowls that were within our grasp. The 16-0 season we should have won. 2011 too. 2010 should have got to the superbowl, but Packers I reckon were that seasons team. And I still think we should have taken the Ravens last season at home in the conference game.

None of that is to discredit the teams that won, because its easy to say we lost something, rather than someone else won. But its not often, particularily in the NFL and as a Pats fan, to be in contention so often but yet not win the whole thing. You need to take advantage when its there, and when the opportunity is there, you have to grasp it, as they dont come by too often.

We won our first superbowl like the Giants and Ravens did, coming from no where, a surprise team and beating the form team of the season. Now its in reverse. We are the form team, and its the others who are coming in unheralded and winning it all. and to be honest, no one remembers the losers, or what they did. They only remember the superbowl winner.

I cant see us winning it this year. We should win the AFC East, but thats not anything to boast about. But our side has seen too many changes over the past 12 months to be in a place now where it can compete with the likes of the niners, packers, even Broncos. I'd hope to win the East, and hopefully finish high in the playoff seedings, and do well there. Anything after that is bonus territory. Almost like a rebuilding season in advance of next year.

and I havent even mentioned the time clock ticking on Tom Brady either...

BaronVon

I see the Cowboys have signed Brian Waters. Are the Pats owed anything from this, seeing as he held out and refused to play?

ReacherCreature

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm sticking with the 'In Bill we trust' because we were in the playoffs again last year and at one stage were favourites for the Superbowl. There is no such thing as perfection in American football but Belichick comes pretty damn close to it because we always have a winning record and we have been in the playoffs almost every year.

You're right about perfection and his accomplishments but getting to the playoffs has largely been a breeze over the past few years, with the exception of 2008. We've went pretty flat in championship and Superbowl games which is incredibly frustrating to watch after brilliant regular seasons. Such is, we all know we'll get to the playoffs but come crunch time, it's difficult to go that bit further. This isn't to take away from other teams as it's an extremely competitive environment.

infacteh wrote: »

I see the Cowboys have signed Brian Waters. Are the Pats owed anything from this, seeing as he held out and refused to play?

Rarely have I seen a player fall from universal praise to utter scorn by Patriot fans. He was widely regarded in his Pro Bowl season with us and was key in the line starting every game, then he just stopped. Granted there was family reasons there but the refusal to report irked a lot.

Masked Man wrote: »

How is Tebow a questionable FA move?

He isn't a solid enough QB so that when your HOF QB goes down along with Mallet you'd put him in. He had the fine playoff run but were you entirely happy we took him on? I'd have rather we taken a backup QB and keep him and Mallet there, instead of Tebow. I was extremely wary of it to begin with (an uneventful season in NY) and some awful stat lines in the preseason showed this.

4/12 versus Eagles (completing 33.3 per cent) for 55 yards.
Tampa Bay was a shocker: 1/7 (14.3 Per cent), -1 yard and an INT.
Against Giants, better: 6/11 for 54.5 per cent completion rating and 91 yards along with two TDs and an interception.

Looking back, it was questionable and it still is. Unless we've gotten some glaring and obvious insights into the running of the option offence etc. but rest assured defensive coaches were working on that when they finished up their season. Now I'm sorry that this has even come around again, the Tebow discussion!

Son Of A Vidic

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Rarely have I seen a player fall from universal praise to utter scorn by Patriot fans. He was widely regarded in his Pro Bowl season with us and was key in the line starting every game, then he just stopped. Granted there was family reasons there but the refusal to report irked a lot.

As a very well paid and experienced professional athlete in the NFL. Waters made a commitment to the team and then reneged on that decision. He did not need to be geography teacher when signing, to realise he would be some distance from home. And to then use that very distance from his family, as an excuse for not coming back in 2012, was really beyond ridiculous.

Good season or not, any Pats fan I've talked about this, thinks he's a complete bollocks for what he did. As a grown man, he broke his word and thus fully deserves any contempt he receives imo. It wouldn't surprise me at all, if now he asks the Cowboys to relocate AT&T Stadium to his back garden.

Masked Man

He isn't a solid enough QB so that when your HOF QB goes down along with Mallet you'd put him in. He had the fine playoff run but were you entirely happy we took him on? I'd have rather we taken a backup QB and keep him and Mallet there, instead of Tebow. I was extremely wary of it to begin with (an uneventful season in NY) and some awful stat lines in the preseason showed this.

4/12 versus Eagles (completing 33.3 per cent) for 55 yards.
Tampa Bay was a shocker: 1/7 (14.3 Per cent), -1 yard and an INT.
Against Giants, better: 6/11 for 54.5 per cent completion rating and 91 yards along with two TDs and an interception.

Looking back, it was questionable and it still is. Unless we've gotten some glaring and obvious insights into the running of the option offence etc. but rest assured defensive coaches were working on that when they finished up their season. Now I'm sorry that this has even come around again, the Tebow discussion!

BB gave him a shot (presumably on Josh's advice). He got no guaranteed money and was cut. There really wan't much downside to signing him.

Son Of A Vidic

Masked Man wrote: »

BB gave him a shot (presumably on Josh's advice). He got no guaranteed money and was cut. There really wan't much downside to signing him.

I agree, I think Josh had some unfinished business and just wanted to have a look under the bonnet so to speak. He did that, the preseason performances spoke for itself and he's gone. We lost nothing, Tebow is grateful to have had the opportunity and everyone moves on.

BaronVon

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I agree, I think Josh had some unfinished business and just wanted to have a look under the bonnet so to speak. He did that, the preseason performances spoke for itself and he's gone. We lost nothing, Tebow is grateful to have had the opportunity and everyone moves on.

And he took some of the limelight off the Hernandez saga!

Still though, I felt sorry for some of the young receivers. Out there, trying to impress, trying to make the team, playing with a QB who struggled to throw the ball. And the OL giving up sacks cos he couldn't make a decision.

Son Of A Vidic

infacteh wrote: »

And he took some of the limelight off the Hernandez saga!

Still though, I felt sorry for some of the young receivers. Out there, trying to impress, trying to make the team, playing with a QB who struggled to throw the ball. And the OL giving up sacks cos he couldn't make a decision.

He should carry a serious health warning for any OL he's behind . Delighted young WR Quentin Sims was put on the practice squad. Because if he looked good with Tebow throwing to him, imagine what Brady could do for him.

ReacherCreature

With Waters, was his family in Texas when he was in Kansas? Maybe that's digging too deep to his reasoning, but to have a really stellar season and then not report isn't really cool.

Masked Man wrote: »

BB gave him a shot (presumably on Josh's advice). He got no guaranteed money and was cut. There really wan't much downside to signing him.

I understand that. But we could've invested some time in developing a proper QB to learn a system (in the extremely unlikely case both QBs went down).

eagle eye

ReacherCreature wrote: »

You're right about perfection and his accomplishments but getting to the playoffs has largely been a breeze over the past few years, with the exception of 2008. We've went pretty flat in championship and Superbowl games which is incredibly frustrating to watch after brilliant regular seasons. Such is, we all know we'll get to the playoffs but come crunch time, it's difficult to go that bit further. This isn't to take away from other teams as it's an extremely competitive environment.

You have to consider that Gronk's injuries were a huge factor in the last two seasons. Also last season against the Ravens the loss of Talib was a huge blow and the year before we lost Andre Carter, who was having a fantastic season, late in the year. People seem to forget this stuff when they are looking back at what went on.

These players I mention were elite Patriot players in those seasons. Losing one is bad, losing two is really going to weaken you. I know Gronk was there for the Superbowl but he clearly wasn't even close to being fit as was revealed a couple of days after the Superbowl loss.

TO.

eagle eye wrote: »

You have to consider that Gronk's injuries were a huge factor in the last two seasons. Also last season against the Ravens the loss of Talib was a huge blow and the year before we lost Andre Carter, who was having a fantastic season, late in the year. People seem to forget this stuff when they are looking back at what went on.

These players I mention were elite Patriot players in those seasons. Losing one is bad, losing two is really going to weaken you. I know Gronk was there for the Superbowl but he clearly wasn't even close to being fit as was revealed a couple of days after the Superbowl loss.

The overlaying issue that has been there for a long time but never focused on is the lack of quality in Depth. In other words the Pats have been fueled by a solid first team but lacks the quality on the bench to punch it or pick up the slack. Also Talib sums up the issues with out secondary. He goes down and they went right back to square one of being sh1te.

eagle eye

TO. wrote: »

The overlaying issue that has been there for a long time but never focused on is the lack of quality in Depth. In other words the Pats have been fueled by a solid first team but lacks the quality on the bench to punch it or pick up the slack. Also Talib sums up the issues with out secondary. He goes down and they went right back to square one of being sh1te.

Well swing it around, would the Ravens have beaten us without Ray Lewis? Would the Giants have beaten us without Justin Tuck? No team has great depth, thats because there is a draft and the worst teams always get the best players.

The reason the Patriots have not picked up many stars in drafts is because they are always picking at the end of the first round. Belichick has done some mighty work to get us picking higher up in drafts.

TO.

eagle eye wrote: »

Well swing it around, would the Ravens have beaten us without Ray Lewis? Would the Giants have beaten us without Justin Tuck? No team has great depth, thats because there is a draft and the worst teams always get the best players.

How is this twisting it around?

Yes the Ravens could have beaten us without Lewis and Yes the Giants would have beaten us without Tuck. Both have quality starters around them and they are both physical teams. The type of team the Pats struggle against as they can and will pressure Brady.

The reason the Patriots have not picked up many stars in drafts is because they are always picking at the end of the first round. Belichick has done some mighty work to get us picking higher up in drafts.

Bollocks. The Pats have passed on more than a few quality players that everyone knew or had an idea were quality had potential to be good starters or even good backup. Clay Matthews ring a bell? Who did we pick after passing up on Matthews. Chung, Brace and Butler.

BaronVon

TO. wrote: »

Bollocks. The Pats have passed on more than a few quality players that everyone knew or had an idea were quality had potential to be good starters or even good backup. Clay Matthews ring a bell? Who did we pick after passing up on Matthews. Chung, Brace and Butler.

While better in recent years, the players drafted by the Pats have been more miss than hit.

Granted, we are drafting further down the pecking order, but there's still plenty of value in the latter rounds!

eagle eye

TO. wrote: »

Bollocks. The Pats have passed on more than a few quality players that everyone knew or had an idea were quality had potential to be good starters or even good backup. Clay Matthews ring a bell? Who did we pick after passing up on Matthews. Chung, Brace and Butler.

So you pick out one player and thats your argument. I can pick out plenty who have done well that I wanted the Patriots to take but thats not what its about. Every team does their homework and different factors make a decision for them. There are lots of players we have taken who have worked out as great value like McCourty, Gronk, Mayo was the highest pick the Patriots have had in quite a long time and he was a steal at 10, there are lots of others too.

You cannot just pick out one player or even a bunch of them and hold them up as examples. If everybody had the perfect draft then the Packers would never have gotten Matthews or Rodgers, the 49ers would never have gotten Bowman or Willis for that matter, the Ravens would not have had the chance to take NGata or Ray Rice and I could go on and on and on and on. Its a futile argument from either side.

TO.

eagle eye wrote: »

So you pick out one player and thats your argument. I can pick out plenty who have done well that I wanted the Patriots to take but thats not what its about. Every team does their homework and different factors make a decision for them. There are lots of players we have taken who have worked out as great value like McCourty, Gronk, Mayo was the highest pick the Patriots have had in quite a long time and he was a steal at 10, there are lots of others too.

You cannot just pick out one player or even a bunch of them and hold them up as examples. If everybody had the perfect draft then the Packers would never have gotten Matthews or Rodgers, the 49ers would never have gotten Bowman or Willis for that matter, the Ravens would not have had the chance to take NGata or Ray Rice and I could go on and on and on and on. Its a futile argument from either side.

What are you talking about? I didn't pick out 1 player. I could go through a decade of drafts finding guys we over looked but that would require me actually bothering to do so. Clay Matthews was the obvious one and easy to remember. He was an example not me picking out one guy. As for it being a futile argument? Yeah ok you keep clinging to that.

But I am not surprised you can't see the Pats have passed better players and are clinging to making this into me using 1 guy. You are after all a in Bill we trust guy so it probably would be a bad idea trying to debate with you on it anyways. I forget that debating Patriots mistakes with you is pointless because the sun clearly shines out of Bills ass enough for you to be blinded by it.

The Patriots and Belichick have made some clear cut bad decisions including draft choices under his tenure and although he is a legend and has done a lot for the Pats he is not perfect and I have to say it annoys me as a Pats fan that you just can't debate with people on the Pats mistakes or even suggest the Pats did something wrong. Like the debate last Friday in the bar. Most guys could debate it but there was a couple who held the In Bill we trust and the debate with them was pointless. Tend to make all sorts of excuses for his bad decisions to try make them look better than they actually were.

I do love Bill and the Pats as much as any die hard Pats but The fact is I am not alone when it comes to these views actually far from being alone and discussing the teams flaw amid success is the healthy thing to do but I guess hard for others.

eagle eye

I never said Belichick was perfect, what I said is he is the closest to it of any NFL coach. We are always in contention and one of the favourites for the big game. Its easy in hindsight to pick out mistakes but if you go through every organisation you will find lots of them.

I gave examples of great picks by teams that have been contending in recent years but those picks who that a lot of teams passed up on great players just like New England have under Belichick.

The problem with people is that their expectations are too high. I'm very surprised you are like that now, you never were up until recently.

TO.

eagle eye wrote: »

The problem with people is that their expectations are too high. I'm very surprised you are like that now, you never were up until recently.

My expectations are too high? Don't confuse what I wrote as me saying the Pats should always be winning bowls and my expectations being too high. But as the Pats have already set the bar for themselves there is nothing wrong with talking about why they arent at the same level they have been for the last 12 seasons. If they dont win a bowl I dont get angry or mad or anything a long those lines. I look at the issues and the reasons why they didn't win. That my friend is not my expectations being so high.

If the Pats go to sh1t tomorrow I will be disappointed but I will still be able to discuss them the way I have always discussed them. In fact it will be easier for as my head is not stuck up Bill's arse and like most Pats fans I am already in a position to throw some criticism on the great one and the team. Sadly those who make excuses for Bill and the Pats will be the ones who will struggle if the team ever implodes.

When it comes to sports it doesnt matter how succesful the team is I will always find the faults in their game because lets face when things go wrong their faults is where everyone is going to look anyways.

Son Of A Vidic

The season is starting and the thread is coming back to life again. Ah yes, I feel like the dad who has all his sons home for the Christmas again and is loving it. Yes ye are killing each other at times in here, but sure isn't that what families do. As long as our hearts are in the right place, Go Pats!

eagle eye

TO. wrote: »

My expectations are too high? Don't confuse what I wrote as me saying the Pats should always be winning bowls and my expectations being too high. But as the Pats have already set the bar for themselves there is nothing wrong with talking about why they arent at the same level they have been for the last 12 seasons. If they dont win a bowl I dont get angry or mad or anything a long those lines. I look at the issues and the reasons why they didn't win. That my friend is not my expectations being so high.

If the Pats go to sh1t tomorrow I will be disappointed but I will still be able to discuss them the way I have always discussed them. In fact it will be easier for as my head is not stuck up Bill's arse and like most Pats fans I am already in a position to throw some criticism on the great one and the team. Sadly those who make excuses for Bill and the Pats will be the ones who will struggle if the team ever implodes.

When it comes to sports it doesnt matter how succesful the team is I will always find the faults in their game because lets face when things go wrong their faults is where everyone is going to look anyways.

People like to look at faults for sure, personally I always look at the bigger picture which is how successful are the team and the Patriots have been the most successful team over the last 12/13 years since Bill got here. You can take any period of four seasons during that time and I'd guess they have the best win/loss record.
If the NFL was league based the Patriots would have numerous titles by now but its not, there is a knockout element to it which brings luck into the equation. That luck is having a full healthy squad for games, that luck means a player like David Tyree can make the catch of a lifetime. I'm not giving out about that, its all part of the game and why we love it. Its just that when you look at the bigger picture you just see things differently.

I too look at players and sometimes after a few games a player will stick out as not being up to it. Other times you will see a college player who you just know has what it takes and when your team bypasses him and he turns out as you expected it is a bit frustrating. Overall though when you look at everything that has happened you just cannot fault Belichick because his record is just incredibly good and we have not had a losing season since his first season here.

I am not looking forward to the time when we have no Belichick nor Brady. I don't think its very likely we will ever see anything like what we've witnessed over the past decade and a half.

As for this season, I don't expect much to change as far as the overall picture is concerned. We may be in a position going into the players of having a very young team and a lot of inexperienced receivers but I firmly believe we will be serious contenders yet again for the Lombardi Trophy.

TO.

eagle eye wrote: »

People like to look at faults for sure, personally I always look at the bigger picture which is how successful are the team and the Patriots have been the most successful team over the last 12/13 years since Bill got here. You can take any period of four seasons during that time and I'd guess they have the best win/loss record.
If the NFL was league based the Patriots would have numerous titles by now but its not, there is a knockout element to it which brings luck into the equation. That luck is having a full healthy squad for games, that luck means a player like David Tyree can make the catch of a lifetime. I'm not giving out about that, its all part of the game and why we love it. Its just that when you look at the bigger picture you just see things differently.

Your definition of the bigger picture and my definition of what the bigger picture are two very different things and its most likely going to turn into a pointless discussion going around in circles.

I too look at players and sometimes after a few games a player will stick out as not being up to it. Other times you will see a college player who you just know has what it takes and when your team bypasses him and he turns out as you expected it is a bit frustrating. Overall though when you look at everything that has happened you just cannot fault Belichick because his record is just incredibly good and we have not had a losing season since his first season here.

You cannot fault him? Of course you can fault him. See this is what I am talking about. I bet you any amount of money Bill himself is his own biggest critic and most likely sits down and wonders where he is going wrong at times. You are almost saying he is perfect.

There is no doubt he is an incredible coach but he has made many mistakes and it would be naive to think he hasn't whether you look at short term or the overall bigger picture. And his drafting has been awful at times and there has been plenty of guys we have passed on who are better than some of the sh1te he drafted.

I am not looking forward to the time when we have no Belichick nor Brady. I don't think its very likely we will ever see anything like what we've witnessed over the past decade and a half.

No Pats fan is but we have to get real at some point and stop pretending Bill and co are perfect. Right now if Bill quit and Brady retired the team is going to plummet as that secondary and lack of depth will most definitely be an issue.

As for this season, I don't expect much to change as far as the overall picture is concerned. We may be in a position going into the players of having a very young team and a lot of inexperienced receivers but I firmly believe we will be serious contenders yet again for the Lombardi Trophy.

As long as the AFC East and AFC overall stay sh1t of course we will always have a shot. Especially with a healthy Tom Brady. As the years go one it has become more apparent that even when the team is poor we still beat up the AFC East and other poor AFC teams. Only the Physical AFC teams give us a good challenge.

eagle eye

TO. wrote: »

Your definition of the bigger picture and my definition of what the bigger picture are two very different things and its most likely going to turn into a pointless discussion going around in circles.



You cannot fault him? Of course you can fault him. See this is what I am talking about. I bet you any amount of money Bill himself is his own biggest critic and most likely sits down and wonders where he is going wrong at times. You are almost saying he is perfect.

There is no doubt he is an incredible coach but he has made many mistakes and it would be naive to think he hasn't whether you look at short term or the overall bigger picture. And his drafting has been awful at times and there has been plenty of guys we have passed on who are better than some of the sh1te he drafted.



No Pats fan is but we have to get real at some point and stop pretending Bill and co are perfect. Right now if Bill quit and Brady retired the team is going to plummet as that secondary and lack of depth will most definitely be an issue.



As long as the AFC East and AFC overall stay sh1t of course we will always have a shot. Especially with a healthy Tom Brady. As the years go one it has become more apparent that even when the team is poor we still beat up the AFC East and other poor AFC teams. Only the Physical AFC teams give us a good challenge.

Just two points to make, firstly I never said he was perfect, in fact I said there is no such thing as perfection but he is the best coach in the NFL.

Secondly the AFC has won 8 of the 13 Superbowls of the new millennium. The NFC had a run of three up until this year but for me the best franchises over the last decade have been the Patriots, Steelers, Giants and Colts and three of them are AFC.

TO.

eagle eye wrote: »

Just two points to make, firstly I never said he was perfect, in fact I said there is no such thing as perfection but he is the best coach in the NFL.

Secondly the AFC has won 8 of the 13 Superbowls of the new millennium. The NFC had a run of three up until this year but for me the best franchises over the last decade have been the Patriots, Steelers, Giants and Colts and three of them are AFC.

Read the last line of what I wrote. The physical AFC teams have run us close or stopped us over the years and the AFC teams you mentioned are some of them and the Ravens also. But the fact of the matter is there is a small group of strong AFC teams and then the rest are highly beatable. That and the Patriots are almost always guaranteed 6 wins from the AFC East. How any Pats fan can deny that our schedule has helped us over the years is beyond me. Anyways as I said earlier like always my view on the Pats is very different to yours and we are most likely going to go around in circles so probably best not debating it anymore.

Son Of A Vidic

TO. wrote: »

That and the Patriots are almost always guaranteed 6 wins from the AFC East. How any Pats fan can deny that our schedule has helped us over the years is beyond me.

I actually think that has been a huge disadvantage to the team for two reasons. Firstly the Pats take it for granted every year, that they are going to the playoffs and taking anything for granted is never a good thing. Secondly and perhaps the most importantly point is the competitive edge. Marching through the regular season and getting a bye has not been good for us. Because we come up against teams like the Ravens and the Giants, who battled, scraped and fought their way through the seasons & playoffs. So when the reach us, they are fired up and shaped by much sharper competitive edge.

We on the other hand win on autopilot, we're all excited because we know they can take it to the next level. We are nearly always the pace setting offense. And so we await the big games with anticipation, but what has happened in recent seasons? We meet a hungrier, sharper and more competitive & battle hardened team that doesn't give us a chance to get out of the blocks. It mightn't do us any harm to battle and scrape this season, because at least then if we get to the playoffs. The team might have a bit more hunger to win key games.