New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

BaronVon

Line Dennard out wide!

Son Of A Vidic

Tom needs Gisele to line up for him. She'll catch his balls. :pac:

Danger_dave1

I'm being a jets fan here , has your D played well ? Or are you up against one of the worst offenses in the league ,

The two picks were poor throws by Geno

BaronVon

Blessed, Def stood up when they had to though, and won the game, even if they weren't playing against the best offense!

me89

Get in!!! Nice to win playing that bad. The rookies are only going to get better.

Son Of A Vidic

It's good to win ugly and boy that was really ugly.

Tristram

According to NFL.com New England Patriots WR Danny Amendola (groin) is expected to miss two to six weeks because of his groin injury.

davyjose

Lads, the past two games have been very un-Brady like, but at the business end of this season you'll have a healthy Gronk and hopefully a healthy Amendola. And you've the best record in football right now (2-0 against division rivals). It's a worrying start but I wouldn't hit the panic button just yet.

eagle eye

Un-Brady like suggests he is not playing to his usual stadard. I'd have to disagree with that, I think if you take all the rookie errors from last night and put experienced receivers in those positions that his numbers are as good as ever. The first night if you took Thompkins' mistakes you have Brady with good number again.

The rookies are just that and its going to take time before they are up to speed. Its just unfortunate that we have to depend on them right now.

I'm reluctant to give a real positive thumbs up to the defense just yet because its possible that we have faced two anaemic offenses to this point. After the Falcons game we will know how good they are I think.

The most important thing though is that we are 2-0 and more importantly 2-0 in the division.

kryogen

The problem is not Brady, he is being his usual self.

Fell asleep last night after the Jets TD, looks like I didn't miss too much anyway after it and the unders came in very comfortably so a good night in the end

Such a long road ahead with these rookies though

davyjose

49% completion rate and 185 yards is unBrady-like. I'm not sure where in my post I put the blame on Brady for those stats, but it's not typical for Tom Brady. Ergo: unBrady-like. It's really that simple.

I then said they were 2-0 in their own division and only going to improve when they get some bodies back on the O.

Tristram

davyjose wrote: »

49% completion rate and 185 yards is unBrady-like. I'm not sure where in my post I put the blame on Brady for those stats, but it's not typical for Tom Brady. Ergo: unBrady-like. It's really that simple.

I understand what you're saying but I think that is a weird kind of logic to define "unBrady-like" when he isn't really accountable for the low completion rate or yards given how many drops or other mistakes receivers made.

kryogen

davyjose wrote: »

49% completion rate and 185 yards is unBrady-like. I'm not sure where in my post I put the blame on Brady for those stats, but it's not typical for Tom Brady. Ergo: unBrady-like. It's really that simple.

I then said they were 2-0 in their own division and only going to improve when they get some bodies back on the O.

Maybe its just a poor choice of words then? Un Brady like does seem to suggest you are saying he was poor/at fault when really he wasn't

Un Patriot like performance?

Some flashes though and things to be positive about from the WR's, but overall the offence was stink except Brady, he kept putting the ball on the money, cant do much more then that really

davyjose

kryogen wrote: »

Maybe its just a poor choice of words then? Un Brady like does seem to suggest you are saying he was poor/at fault when really he wasn't

Un Patriot like performance?

In fairness, if people are going to ignore the point of my post to focus on one word and contextualize it in a way that completely misses my intent, then saying "unpatriot-like" would probably have gotten just as much criticism.

I'm not sure how I could have mentioned the current situation without pissing some folk off TBH.

kryogen

davyjose wrote: »

In fairness, if people are going to ignore the point of my post to focus on one word and contextualize it in a way that completely misses my intent, then saying "unpatriot-like" would probably have gotten just as much criticism.

I'm not sure how I could have mentioned the current situation without pissing some folk off TBH.

Im not pissed off by your comment, just don't think it is accurate in this case to use the phrase Un-Brady like, I did get your point though

Son Of A Vidic

Davy, I'm slightly flabbergasted to be reading about this Un-Brady like business? People can look over a stats sheet all day. But looking at the stats sheet and watching the entire game will actually tell you two entirely different things.

Short of Gisele catching the ball for him last night, there was absolutely nothing else Brady could do. He threw some beautiful passes last night and to then watch them fall, bobble and slip through the rookies hands was just totally head wrecking.

I appreciate you later trying to clarify what you said. But I must be honest, I have reread it numerous times and I can only interpret it as a negative comment directed at Brady. If it was justified, then I would have no argument with it. But it is not.

Unpatriot like performance would certainly have been a more suitable expression to use imo. Because it does not give the unfair perception of attributing blame to Brady. The offense has been very unpatriot like in the last two games and I got absolutely no argument with anyone who thinks that.

eagle eye

I have to concur with the other responses, Un-Patriot like really does fit what you are saying davy. I wasn't having a go either, I think the O stunk overall its just that Brady was about the only shining light in there with Edelman doing a decent job too.

BaronVon

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

The offense has been very unpatriot like in the last two games and I got absolutely no argument with anyone who thinks that.

I hope what BB and Josh are doing pays off. You have to wonder the logic in completely overhauling the number 1 offense from last year. Hernandez being gone in beyond their control, but they had a good idea Goink would be missing, and then they let Welker, Lloyd and Woodhead go.

It's no surprise that the offense is now struggling, like not scoring in the second half versus the Jets.

We might look back in a year or two, saying this was genius of BB and Josh, but atm, it seems to be too radical. We might be able to squeeze past the Bucs again, but then we travel to Atlanta and Cincinnati, and this offense, as it currently stands, won't be good enough!

Adamcp898

After the last two games I wonder how Brady is feeling personally about the offence and the team?

Year on year he restructures his contract and doesn't push for the amount of money he is worth with the express intention that the free cap space be used to improve the team. Now the defence has improved imo but the offence is looking as weak and disjointed as it ever has under Brady, the O-line not included. Granted certain things have happened which were outside of the team's control but, knowing your other major receiver (Gronk) was injury prone, why was it ever a good decision to let Wes go and replace him with a comparable but infinitely more injury prone receiver? I can't help but think it was just to prove a point because did anyone realistically decide they were going to throw to Hernandez for the first 6 games on his own? or that the rookies really would step up immediately?

I can't help but feel Brady is getting a bit pissed off that the team has more or less said wrt to the offence 'sure we have Tom, he'll figure out a way to win no matter what he has' and his body language showed as much last night.

Yes the defense needed work but when you have a QB like Brady surely you have to just say we'll stack ourselves on offence because we know even if we concede 28 points a game we can easily score 35.

Masked Man

BB has extended his contract. Obviously the Pats aren't saying **** about it but he's going to be around for a while.
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There's nothing radical about what the pats are doing on the offence. They're just trying to work with what they have.

They tried to replace Welker, they probably hope that Amendola and Edelman can replicate his production and Hernandez was still around when Wes left. why would we keep woodhead? I love the guy but he wasn't needed. We tried to get Lloyd back but he's retired or at the least he's taking a break from the game.

I can't help but feel Brady is getting a bit pissed off that the team has more or less said wrt to the offence 'sure we have Tom, he'll figure out a way to win no matter what he has' and his body language showed as much last night.

Your making a big leap there. Brady was pissed so that must mean the BB and Josh are just shrugging their shoulders and saying "meh let Tom figure it out"??? BB doesn't seem the type to approach a situation like that.

TO.

davyjose wrote: »

Lads, the past two games have been very un-Brady like, but at the business end of this season you'll have a healthy Gronk and hopefully a healthy Amendola. And you've the best record in football right now (2-0 against division rivals). It's a worrying start but I wouldn't hit the panic button just yet.

I actually read your post without reading any of the lads responses and saw what you were saying right away. If one didn't watch the last 2 games and looked right at the box score and stats you would ask yourself what is wrong with Brady. Im going to go out on a limb and say this has been his worst start to a NFL season. Face value it looks bad for Brady and is defo un-Brady like.

TO.

Adamcp898 wrote: »

After the last two games I wonder how Brady is feeling personally about the offence and the team?

Angry and Frustrated and the want to turn things around most likely.

knowing your other major receiver (Gronk) was injury prone, why was it ever a good decision to let Wes go and replace him with a comparable but infinitely more injury prone receiver?

How is Gronk injury prone? He smashed up his arm which is still causing him gip. His back he had surgery on in college and re injured it during a game and ended up having surgery to fix. I wouldn't say injury prone more unlucky if anything. Injury prone to me ius someone who always picks niggly injuries and cant shake them. Amendola being prime example.

I can't help but feel Brady is getting a bit pissed off that the team has more or less said wrt to the offence 'sure we have Tom, he'll figure out a way to win no matter what he has' and his body language showed as much last night.

Im not Bill or Josh or a Patriots coach but Im going to say 100% no just wrong to this.

Yes the defense needed work but when you have a QB like Brady surely you have to just say we'll stack ourselves on offence because we know even if we concede 28 points a game we can easily score 35.

I always wondered how true this was with the Pats. Does Bill actually believe that the best way to win is just outscore your opponents without putting any faith in your defense. Which as a Defensive minded coach I doubt he does. Our Defense became very lacklustre and we made some right moves signing pure offensive weapons so in the end so in the end it gave that impression but I dont believe that is always true. Yes out scoring your opponent is the way to go but having at least a decent defense is key and the Pats have learned that on more than one occasion. Just yet to fix the major defensive problems.

bruschi

hard to know waht to make of it. infacteh made the point that we now have a week and a bit to work some more on the WR corps which is badly needed. Whilst Dobson and thompkins made some poor player and dropped easy balls or just clean didnt turn their heads, it would be worse if they werent there as a target. A lot of the times Brady put the ball on the number, they just couldnt reel it in. I'd be feeling far worse if they were covered and he was throwing it away, or if they were ineffective in stretching the defence. Catching the ball and getting in sync with Brady will come, but getting open and finding space is hard to do, and they are doing that at least. It needs time, its just unfortunate we have to throw them in the deep end together so early.

I am more disappointed with the run game. Ridley was badly ineffective, and I thought he'd be powered up what with being benched last week and now Vereen out. He found very little gaps, and was stopped for a loss a load of times. Now I know the O line takes some responsibility for that too, but in comparison to Vereen last week who was finding space and making cuts, it wasnt there for Ridley last night.

Edelman was massive. Both in punt returns and in receiving. Had a huge game and deserves a lot of plaudits.

In any case, we are 2-0. I'll take that.

Son Of A Vidic

Welker - Gone,aging, Amendola in as a younger Welker 2.0
Gronk - his back surgery on the 19th of June was not foreseen until well after the rookies arrived.
Hernandez - Again, the rookies were here before all his criminal crap kicked off.
Lloyd - was not the deep threat, wide option we hoped for. Along with being a bad locker room presence.
Woodhead - wasn't gong to get paid, especially with Vereen stepping up and already on the roster.
Edelman - Still here


So if you look at the above & before all the crap started. The coaching staff were expecting to start the season with Gronk, Hernandez, Edelman, Amendola, Vereen and then add in the rookies. So we would have had plenty of skilled vets playing alongside and helping to integrate the rookies.

We had a freakishly disastrous off season and it has continued into the start of the season with Vereen breaking his wrist on his first snap and Amendola banjaxing his groin. Amendola had a fantastic game against the Bills. Playing through injury demonstrated his toughness, unfortunately as I feared it would, it has now cost him.

If ever a team needed a break and a turn of luck it's us. We are in unprecedented territory and I can't blame the coaching staff or anyone for that. It was so hard and frustrating to watch the mistakes last night. But all we can do is remain patient and stick with it. These rookies have flashed their talent, but they are full of blunders. But if it starts to click with them after a few more games under their belt, then the reward will be worth it.

I think we have to forget about our excellent offensive and the records we usually break. Through no fault of his own, Brady stats are and will undoubtedly be affected badly by all of this. But we have to look at the long term. We need these rookies to succeeded. Going the JAG route has wasted years that could have been spent on rookie development.

So lets look at a potential positive. If we win the Division and reach the post-season with a fully fit Gronk, Amendola and Vereen and if the rookies have come good. Then we will be looking pretty good. The Giants won the Superbowl going 9-7. The Ravens won the super bowl, despite looking shyte for quite a few games during the regular season. So who knows? Maybe it's our turn to stutter and stumble our way to the big prize.

Hazys

From the Week 2 thread:

Hazys wrote: »

This is the worst Patriots performance i have ever seen in my life

Worst performance and it still was a win. I'm a very spoilt Pats fan being a fan since 2001 lol.

I've seen bigger thrashings in my 12 years as a fan but that they were usually against good teams, two of the big ones I remember i saw in person, losing to the Ravens 33-10 in the playoffs, the Steelers 33-10 also in 08...but last night was terrible and we were against weak opposition, Brady ended up with a less than 50% completion rate...has that happened in the last 10 years?

The game was awful, our receivers were awful, our run game was awful, Gostkowski was awful, the Jets were awful, the weather was awful, the pizza i order for the game was awful.

Yes, last night was awful, but a win is a win is a win. We're are 2-0 and we can only get better. So its not all negatives..I'm looking at the positives:

• Our defense was decent and won us the game, not top of the league but i think better than last year.
• Our receivers are rookies and still making rookie mistakes, so with 10 days before the Tampa game they can only get better (they can get much worse). Positive signs are that they are getting open, it'd be worse if they weren't...they have potential and they are getting real game experience fast
• Look at the players we will get back on offense during the season: Gronk, Amendola & Vereen...that's our 3 top playmakers!!

My criticisms of BB is having too many inexperienced WRs at one time on the roster...its way too risky. Usually WRs don't make any real impact in their first year and they are blended into the offense as the 3rd receiver. It makes it easier for them to have an impact, the top two WRs are covered by the top CBs and the rookie usually has an easier job of getting open and there is way less pressure on them to carry the team. The other risk is that we kill their confidence and they never recover. But tbh i like their potential, they are getting open most of the time but unfortunately they may not iron out their rookie mistakes till they have a full year under their belt...i can't wait for next year :rolleyes:

Why did we draft two WRs this year? Why not one last year and one this year? I think Bill dropped the ball on that.

TO.

bruschi wrote: »

I am more disappointed with the run game. Ridley was badly ineffective, and I thought he'd be powered up what with being benched last week and now Vereen out. He found very little gaps, and was stopped for a loss a load of times. Now I know the O line takes some responsibility for that too, but in comparison to Vereen last week who was finding space and making cuts, it wasnt there for Ridley last night.

To be fair to Ridley and our backs that Jets D-line is ten times better than the Bills D-line. At times with our zone running Ridley was finding cut back lanes but there is only so much zone runs you can make before the Defense key in on them. When we adjusted away from zone running Ridley got stuffed also. The Jets actually have one of the best defensive lines in the NFL in my opinion and they have had for many seasons. Rex Ryan does a good job with that. If they could bring their offense and the rest of their defense up to the same standard the AFC East would have more competition.

Son Of A Vidic

TO. wrote: »

To be fair to Ridley and our backs that Jets D-line is ten times better than the Bills D-line. At times with our zone running Ridley was finding cut back lanes but there is only so much zone runs you can make before the Defense key in on them. When we adjusted away from zone running Ridley got stuffed also. The Jets actually have one of the best defensive lines in the NFL in my opinion and they have had for many seasons. Rex Ryan does a good job with that. If they could bring their offense and the rest of their defense up to the same standard the AFC East would have more competition.

I totally agree with that, the Jets D are very formidable against the run.

davyjose

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Because it does not give the unfair perception of attributing blame to Brady. The offense has been very unpatriot like in the last two games and I got absolutely no argument with anyone who thinks that.

Ah he's a big boy, he'll get over it.

From my perspective, it was unBrady like. Not because I think it was Brady's fault. But when I think of Tom Brady I think of high completion rates,high yardage, high YPA, and (usually) >3 TD's in his first two games. That's what I think of when I think of Tom Brady. This, isn't a typical Tom Brady offense. Hence I said "unBrady-like".

And when he does post huge numbers, I consider that Brady-like. I daresay nobody on here would be flabbergasted at me saying that. I daresay nobody would correct me and say it's "Patriot-like".

To be honest, it was yourself and other Pats fans on here that said Brady would jell seamlessly with the new O, without guys like Hernandez and Welker. That was not my opinion; I was of the opinion that Brady was just one guy, and it was unfair (on both him, and guys like Wes Welker) to expect him to pick it up where he left off last season. So if anyone is blaming Brady on the current New England Offensive ebb, it sure isn't me.

Son Of A Vidic

davyjose wrote: »

To be honest, it was yourself and other Pats fans on here that said Brady would jell seamlessly with the new O, without guys like Hernandez and Welker. That was not my opinion.....

That's not correct Davy, I'm pretty certain I never said Brady would gel seamlessly with this new offense ( rookies). But doubting myself I had a wee check and I found this from me before the season even started.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

...I am glad Wes is gone, because we now potentially have a much more unpredictable and dynamic attack. Yes they might all fail and they might be flops, but do you know what? It won’t bother me, because at least it would have been right to try to develop a more dynamic & unpredictable attack...

I have never been certain about how successful they would be. Excited to have them? Yes. Like the move towards the bigger more athletic WR's? Yes. Certain they'll integrate seamlessly? Hopefully so.

They showed promise in camp, they showed promise in preseason, and it's man time now. Only time will tell if this pans out. But it has to be done, we need to develop these guys. Last year we had the oldest WR core in the League.

Look at the prediction thread, I think I have us down for the most losses amongst Pats fans 11-5. And I said a few day back in here, that I was nearly going to go with 9-7. So no, I have never been completely confident about a seamlessly integration into the offense. I expect hiccups and my prediction reflects this.

I also said that if Brady puts his usual numbers with this rookie offense, then he should be MVP. In other words, it would be nothing short of a miracle if he does and he would totally deserve MVP. Tbh, I can't see Brady getting near his usual 30+ TD's, I'll be amazed if he gets anywhere near 4,000 passing yards. His Int's will probably hit double figures for the first time years.

But this is a transition year for the offense and it is essentially a complete retooling. The volume of personnel turnover is unprecedented. Brady started the season with 88% of all receptions gone. Any Pats fan who expected no bumps on the road is not being realistic.

That's why Davy I responded to your post earlier. I just think there's no point in looking at stats and comparing them to what we usually do. There is nothing normal about the size of the challenge facing the offense this season. There'll be plenty of bumps on the road. But as long as I can see progress from the rookies by mid-season then I'll be happy enough.

eagle eye

davyjose wrote: »

Ah he's a big boy, he'll get over it.

From my perspective, it was unBrady like. Not because I think it was Brady's fault. But when I think of Tom Brady I think of high completion rates,high yardage, high YPA, and (usually) >3 TD's in his first two games. That's what I think of when I think of Tom Brady. This, isn't a typical Tom Brady offense. Hence I said "unBrady-like".

And when he does post huge numbers, I consider that Brady-like. I daresay nobody on here would be flabbergasted at me saying that. I daresay nobody would correct me and say it's "Patriot-like".

To be honest, it was yourself and other Pats fans on here that said Brady would jell seamlessly with the new O, without guys like Hernandez and Welker. That was not my opinion; I was of the opinion that Brady was just one guy, and it was unfair (on both him, and guys like Wes Welker) to expect him to pick it up where he left off last season. So if anyone is blaming Brady on the current New England Offensive ebb, it sure isn't me.

No my friend you are mixing up what people said. A lot of us said that Brady won Superbowls without star wideouts which is one thing, saying he would just turn these guys into superstars is a whole other matter and I don't think anybody said that.