New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

eagle eye

The one thing in the back of my mind that is keeping me a bit positive(besides being 2-0) is a thought that I'd rather us stutter at this early stage of the season than in the playoffs. For some reason I think that a rough start like this where they are just winning games is a good experience for the team. We usually coast through the season with a couple of losses but when you hit the playoffs the games become much tougher and the experience of not being able to dominate your opponent and still win could prove invaluable come January.

Son Of A Vidic

One thing I can't figure out from the other night is Boyce. He was put on the field for 1 snap and that was it and as for as I know he is not injured. I really can't see any sense or benefit to giving a rookie only 2 snaps in a game. I'd love to know how Josh explains that. At least they have a long week now before the Buccs game and hopefully they can work on their fundamentals. Like catching the ball and turning their head in time to watch its flight. I think what is catching the these kids out, is the Pats offense in real time. Learning the playbook is one thing but we are big on situational football and the ability to make mid route adjustments & changes. That's probably the most important skill the rookies will have to develop in the coming weeks.

UnitedIrishman

They definitely seem to be overthinking plays rather than just doing it. The Dobson one where he wasn't even looking at Brady throw was prime example of focussing solely on the route and then the ball after. As infuriating as it was to watch from a betting point of view, I'm sure it'll come together in time. Although he'd want to forget about celebrating getting a first down when he's just dropped 3 - 4 gimmies and goes on to drop a couple more after. Just do the job!

Son Of A Vidic

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

They definitely seem to be overthinking plays rather than just doing it. The Dobson one where he wasn't even looking at Brady throw was prime example of focussing solely on the route and then the ball after. As infuriating as it was to watch from a betting point of view, I'm sure it'll come together in time.

That play was a prime example of a classic rookie error alright. Focusing on his route and then looking for the ball much too late. Very frustrating but it shoould be correctable.

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Although he'd want to forget about celebrating getting a first down when he's just dropped 3 - 4 gimmies and goes on to drop a couple more after. Just do the job!

I thought the same thing myself, wff was he celebrating a down when he was dropping balls all night.

TO.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

That play was a prime example of a classic rookie error alright. Focusing on his route and then looking for the ball much too late. Very frustrating but it shoould be correctable.

Thing is though as rookies they are told to focus on the routes and make sure they run them. See rookies are in a bind when it comes to freedom when running routes. Look at it this way

Rookies runs route and doesnt use his head to look for the ball and coach and QB give him a bollocking

Rookie uses his head follows the ball and the QB throws to where the route should have been coach gives him a bollocking as does QB.

The best WR find their way through experience and unfortunately right now those WR are doing what they are told. Watching some of the NFL shows during the week and it was mentioned that Tom Brady should be smarter when throwing to a rookie as in not expect the rookie to follow the ball completely or expect the rookie to use his head. Now I dont neccessarily agree with it but there is food for thought in there right now until these guys get more experience with Tom on the field real time.

It really is a no win situation for the rookies right now until they gain the experience needed to be on par with Brady.

I thought the same thing myself, wff was he celebrating a down when he was dropping balls all night.

Nothing wrong with pumping yourself up after making a catch. Sometimes celebrating can give you that self confidence and pat on the back to keep your head up while having a stinker of a game.

Son Of A Vidic

TO. wrote: »

Thing is though as rookies they are told to focus on the routes and make sure they run them. See rookies are in a bind when it comes to freedom when running routes. Look at it this way

Rookies runs route and doesnt use his head to look for the ball and coach and QB give him a bollocking

Rookie uses his head follows the ball and the QB throws to where the route should have been coach gives him a bollocking as does QB.

The best WR find their way through experience and unfortunately right now those WR are doing what they are told. Watching some of the NFL shows during the week and it was mentioned that Tom Brady should be smarter when throwing to a rookie as in not expect the rookie to follow the ball completely or expect the rookie to use his head. Now I dont neccessarily agree with it but there is food for thought in there right now until these guys get more experience with Tom on the field real time.

It really is a no win situation for the rookies right now until they gain the experience needed to be on par with Brady.

It means nothing to me if a rookie ends up running his route as directed or whether he makes an in route adjustment for the ball. And then goes and makes a series of basic mistakes. What's important to me first of all, is getting the fundamentals right. By the time Dobson looked for the ball on that play, it was passing between his hands and hitting him in the chest. A perfect pass was wasted, we went three and out and were off the field. Now as I said earlier, that's a basic mistake and very correctable. The play was mentioned earlier just to illustrate how green these guys are.

Now if I see the same mistake happening in the next game, then I'll start to get worried. I think most people are pretty tolerant and know these guys have been dumped into it. So these mistakes are to be expected, but as they get games under the belt we're really hoping to see these mistakes decrease with experience.

TO. wrote: »

Nothing wrong with pumping yourself up after making a catch. Sometimes celebrating can give you that self confidence and pat on the back to keep your head up while having a stinker of a game.

I thought his own reaction was a bit OTT, Christ if it was me, I'd be keeping my head down and not celebrating like it was a Super Bowl win. Get back in the huddle or when you go to the sideline, let the encouragement come from Brady or Josh. After all he was targeted 10 times and only had 3 catches. So when you're not doing your job, I think it's best just to keep the head down and get on with.

BKWDR

Thought I had posted here last night, got to watch the second half after falling asleep at halftime watching the live game.

Dobson...jesus!!! Rookie nothing, missing the basics is unforgiveable!

Think the rain changed dynamics, Jets performed well too.

TO.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

It means nothing to me if a rookie ends up running his route as directed or whether he makes an in route adjustment for the ball. And then goes and makes a series of basic mistakes. What's important to me first of all, is getting the fundamentals right. By the time Dobson looked for the ball on that play, it was passing between his hands and hitting him in the chest. A perfect pass was wasted, we went three and out and were off the field. Now as I said earlier, that's a basic mistake and very correctable. The play was mentioned earlier just to illustrate how green these guys are.

Are we talking about the goalline play? He ran an out and the ball was thrown behind him as he made the cut to run the out. That catch had nothing to do with fundamentals. And why are you taking this so personal.

Edit: for the record I wasn't talking about any specific play. I was making a general statement about WR staying on routes as unitedirishman brought it up. And it did actually sound like he was talking about the goal line play.

I thought his own reaction was a bit OTT, Christ if it was me, I'd be keeping my head down and not celebrating like it was a Super Bowl win. Get back in the huddle or when you go to the sideline, let the encouragement come from Brady or Josh. After all he was targeted 10 times and only had 3 catches. So when you're not doing your job, I think it's best just to keep the head down and get on with.

Some people pump themselves up by celebrating every small thing and some dont. I dont see why this is an issue. It has been done by a lot of players over the years good or bad. Some people like to celebrate small victories simple as. You may think that is best thing to do but that is you.

Son Of A Vidic

TO. wrote: »

Are we talking about the goalline play? He ran an out and the ball was thrown behind him as he made the cut to run the out. That catch had nothing to do with fundamentals.

Nope, I can't remember exactly when, but I think the play was in the 4th quarter. Dobson was running a crossing route across the middle, looked much to late and the ball was gone through his hands as he raised them for the catch. I mentioned nothing about the red zone.

The only issue I had with any redzone play, was when Edelman screwed up a route when a TD was on. Brady bollicked him on the sideline afterwards and rightly so. It was a bad misread from a 5 year veteran.

TO. wrote: »

And why are you taking this so personal.

Seriously? Where did that come from? Since when is giving my opinion taking something personal? Example - I made a comment about a celebration, you gave your reply. I then give my own personal view of it and how I myself would have behaved. So where is the issue? Can I not elaborate upon my own opinion?

TO.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Nope, I can't remember exactly when, but I think the play was in the 4th quarter. Dobson was running a crossing route across the middle, looked much to late and the ball was gone through his hands as he raised them for the catch. I mentioned nothing about the red zone.

I dont get why you bothered writing the whole response to me saying mistakes dont bother you when I wasn't even talking about a specific play. I made a generalised statement that happened a fair few times with regards to route running and balls thrown. In fact I even thought Unitedirishman was talking about the goal line play.

Seriously? Where did that come from? Since when is giving my opinion taking something personal? Example - I made a comment about a celebration, you gave your reply. I then give my own personal view of it and how I myself would have behaved. So where is the issue? Can I not elaborate upon my own opinion?

I maybe shouldnt have quoted you with my generalised statement but I dont know why this is so relevent to my post when I never mentioned you or directed it at you. It actually looks to me like you took what I said personal in the sense of directing it at you.

It means nothing to me

Son Of A Vidic

TO. wrote: »

I dont get why you bothered writing the whole response to me saying mistakes dont bother you when I wasn't even talking about a specific play. I made a generalised statement that happened a fair few times with regards to route running and balls thrown. In fact I even thought Unitedirishman was talking about the goal line play.

You commented earlier on rookies running routes. I responded by saying I wasn't bothered about that and again referenced the specific play I was talking about all along. The priority for me was them getting their fundamentals right first. So again I ask myself what is the issue here? You raised a good general point and I just gave my opinion.

TO. wrote: »

I maybe shouldnt have quoted you with my generalised statement but I dont know why this is so relevent to my post when I never mentioned you or directed it at you. It actually looks to me like you took what I said personal in the sense of directing it at you.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

It means nothing to me

This is the entirety of the part quote you selected...

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

It means nothing to me if a rookie ends up running his route as directed or whether he makes an in route adjustment for the ball. And then goes and makes a series of basic mistakes. What's important to me first of all, is getting the fundamentals right.

If you took the it means nothing to me part there the wrong way, then that was not intended by me. To sum up what I meant – get the fundamentals right first and foremost and then worry about routes and route adjustments later. Anyway I'm done with this, so I’m bailing out of here for now.

Syferus

Looks like the Amendola for Welker gamble is already coming home to roost with Amendola already breaking down. This turned out to be the very worst season imaginable to take that gamble and were BB making the call in August or September I'd think it would have resulted in Welker staying.

BizzyC

TBH with the way he's conducted himself since leaving, I wouldn't take Welker back for Amendola now.

The only bright spark at the moment is Edelman, which is worrying given his injury history.
I had exepcted Ridley to tear defences up behind that hurry up running attack we had last year, but that hasn't appeared yet.

Right now, even if we get Ridley firing on all cylinders, get Gronk and Amendola healthy and keep Edelman healthy into the playoffs, we're in trouble.

We need another viable option in the passing game to open up coverages.

TO.

BizzyC wrote: »

The only bright spark at the moment is Edelman, which is worrying given his injury history.

Shows how bad it has become that we are now depending on Edelman to stay healthy.

I had exepcted Ridley to tear defences up behind that hurry up running attack we had last year, but that hasn't appeared yet.

I actually think had he not fumbled and been pulled from the first game he would have tore it up. But to be fair to him that Jets D-line wrecked out run game for the most part. Nothing Ridley could do really with the lack of running room.

We need another viable option in the passing game to open up coverages.

I actually think Thompkins and Dobson will give us those options as the season rolls on. They both have shown talent they just need to get their heads out of their asses.

BKWDR

Dobson really had a shocker the other night...of biblical proportions :-/

TO.

BKWDR wrote: »

Dobson really had a shocker the other night...of biblical proportions :-/

Ah here now it wasn't that bad. But it was his first regular season game. Like Thompkin's first game being **** it can only get better for both of them. As rookies we have to give them time. What did we expect from two rookies really? I know we all hoped they would perform right away but lets face it that didn't happen and all we can do now is hope the more reps they get the better they get.

BKWDR

TO. wrote: »

Ah here now it wasn't that bad. But it was his first regular season game. Like Thompkin's first game being **** it can only get better for both of them. As rookies we have to give them time. What did we expect from two rookies really? I know we all hoped they would perform right away but lets face it that didn't happen and all we can do now is hope the more reps they get the better they get.

You'd hope they improve drastically. Not having a few steady handed veterans is highlighting the rookie issue more and more, even seeing TB visually losing it is unsettling, granted only wk 2

BKWDR

TO. wrote: »

Ah here now it wasn't that bad. But it was his first regular season game. Like Thompkin's first game being **** it can only get better for both of them. As rookies we have to give them time. What did we expect from two rookies really? I know we all hoped they would perform right away but lets face it that didn't happen and all we can do now is hope the more reps they get the better they get.

You'd hope they improve drastically. Not having a few steady handed veterans is highlighting the rookie issue more and more, even seeing TB visually losing it is unsettling, granted only wk 2

Son Of A Vidic

TO. wrote: »

As rookies we have to give them time. What did we expect from two rookies really? I know we all hoped they would perform right away but lets face it that didn't happen and all we can do now is hope the more reps they get the better they get.

I absolutely agree. These kids have been thrown to the Lions. In an ideal situation, we would have given them a couple of snaps here and there and then increased the reps with each game. But because of the crisis we are in, these kids are going into games with the weight of the offense on their young shoulders. And that's a pretty tough way to start their NFL careers.

But we have to keep giving them reps and if they're all fit, I want to see Dobson, Boyce, Thompkins and Sudfeld on the field against the Buccs. Regardless of all the hiccups against the Jets. These kids possess so much upside, that we must really stick with it.

After all, we are in this situation in many ways because of our over reliance in the past for bringing back aging veterans. Developing a new crop of talent for the future is long overdue and with Brady not getting younger, it has to be our priority imo. So if focusing on these kids this year, means we miss out on the playoffs so be it. That is tough to say, but look at the potential positives.

Just imagine starting next year where, Dobson, Thompkins, Boyce and Sudfeld have built up a strong chemistry with Brady. Then throw in Gronk, Vereen and Amendola. No doubt, we'll be back to being a top NFL offense if all this hard work pays off. In fact, I'll be trying to source a ticket to the Super Bowl. We just need to keep the faith.

eagle eye

People we are 2-0, we are going well. The Bills showed this week that they are not as bad as we thought, the Bucs threw it away in the last minute again to the Saints just like they did to the Jets. The teams we have played so far don't look that bad now.

davyjose

Dolphin's D looks very sharp this season, and Tannehill has weapons this season. Have no doubts you guys will win the division, but it'll be an interesting chase to the finish.

TO.

Dennard has to be the biggest fooking idiot around. Dumb fook apparently violated his probation and with his sentencing on Dec 5th it could land him in hot water.

eagle eye

TO. wrote: »

Dennard has to be the biggest fooking idiot around. Dumb fook apparently violated his probation and with his sentencing on Dec 5th it could land him in hot water.

Seems like immaturity more than anything but he is going to pay for it and as a result the Patriots will too. Hopefully this will be the last lesson he needs.

me89

Amendola appeared at practice today in uniform.

Didnt expect to see him back at practice for another few weeks

TO.

me89 wrote: »

Amendola appeared at practice today in uniform.

Didnt expect to see him back at practice for another few weeks

Big time. They were talking about a sports hernia and surgery at one point.

Son Of A Vidic

There are conflicting reports on the extent of Amendola's injury, so I would treat reports of him being at practice with caution. What concerns me is players will very often try and are willing to play through groin injuries. The problem is, if you repeatedly antagonise the lower abdominal/groin region when injured, it can lead to a inguinal hernia. I really hope the team isn't panicking after the other night and pressurising Amendola back into action. Because if his initial groin injury is not sufficiently healed, then it could lead to a hernia. Now it's not guaranteed but the risk will increase dramatically. Groin injuries can become really niggle if you push it too hard when you're not ready. I just hope the team are erring on the side of caution here.

Son Of A Vidic

Hey lads guess what? Yip, the jinx continues. Matthew Slater will be out now for 6 weeks, thanks to a broken bone in his wrist . So we've just lost one of the best special team players in the entire league.

me89

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Hey lads guess what? Yip, the jinx continues. Matthew Slater will be out now for 6 weeks, thanks to a broken bone in his wrist . So we've just lost one of the best special team players in the entire league.

Ah ffs, we really will miss him. Such a great special team player.

Looks like there is a good chance Gronk plays some part on Sunday.

bruschi

I'm getting more and more pessimistic as the season goes on. dont read if you dont want to see negative thoughts.

Brady is entering the twighlight years of his career. We should be making the most of this as we might never see anyone as good there again. We might have only 3/4 years max to make the most of his talents and push for a superbowl. So we should have, IMO, stacked our receivers and put the weapons in there for him to be the best he can be.

But no, we get rid of his favorite target for the last 6 years and replace him with an extremely injury prone player. We then get 2 rookie WRs and throw them straight in. The Hernandez situation was unfortunate. And the Gronkowski a bit unfortunate, but also a lot of it was our own doing bringing him back too soon.

So if we dont splash out on talented offence, then we should be seeing a defence like the formidable 02 winning season. But no, even the defence isnt spectaular enough to see us win games. I just dont see this team with a load of talent like before, and I think its a waste of an opportunity.

Take Denver. They took Manning despite many thinking his best days were done, and even if he had some left, people said they should go for the future. But no, they added Manning to a quality drafted WR corps, and then bring in Welker. And they are tearing it up. I just dont see the fear in other teams of us, that I would see in Denver.

Maybe I am being too critical or too down hearted, but for the first time in quite a while, since Brady went down against the Chiefs really, where I genuinely dont think we have a bowl chance at all. Maybe thats a spoilt viewpoint, considering most fans would give their right arm to have a playoff shot, but we have Brady, and a pretty handy division to get out of.

me89

bruschi wrote: »

I'm getting more and more pessimistic as the season goes on. dont read if you dont want to see negative thoughts.

Brady is entering the twighlight years of his career. We should be making the most of this as we might never see anyone as good there again. We might have only 3/4 years max to make the most of his talents and push for a superbowl. So we should have, IMO, stacked our receivers and put the weapons in there for him to be the best he can be.

But no, we get rid of his favorite target for the last 6 years and replace him with an extremely injury prone player. We then get 2 rookie WRs and throw them straight in. The Hernandez situation was unfortunate. And the Gronkowski a bit unfortunate, but also a lot of it was our own doing bringing him back too soon.

So if we dont splash out on talented offence, then we should be seeing a defence like the formidable 02 winning season. But no, even the defence isnt spectaular enough to see us win games. I just dont see this team with a load of talent like before, and I think its a waste of an opportunity.

Take Denver. They took Manning despite many thinking his best days were done, and even if he had some left, people said they should go for the future. But no, they added Manning to a quality drafted WR corps, and then bring in Welker. And they are tearing it up. I just dont see the fear in other teams of us, that I would see in Denver.

Maybe I am being too critical or too down hearted, but for the first time in quite a while, since Brady went down against the Chiefs really, where I genuinely dont think we have a bowl chance at all. Maybe thats a spoilt viewpoint, considering most fans would give their right arm to have a playoff shot, but we have Brady, and a pretty handy division to get out of.

Yes pretty much sums up how i feel to, Really think this season was the time to splash the cash and bring in two good WR's.

A good deep threat and another decent WR and I would make us superbowl favorites especially with a healthy Gronk.
We probably have 2/3 good seasons of Brady left, after that who knows it could be 10 years before we have a realistic chance of a championship?