New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

j8wk2feszrnpao

No doubt that Reed is past his best.
But if he passes waivers, then I see no harm in bringing him in, let Bill check him out to, and see if it's worth it.

Son Of A Vidic

Crazier things have happened but I can't see us moving for Reed. We're 29th in line in the waiver queue anyway, so he could be picked up before we even consider it.

Hazys

Gronk rap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TzER-YNQko

Son Of A Vidic

^ ^ ^

They should have thrown in 'The Changing Of The Gronk' TD from London last year.

Son Of A Vidic

As we expected, Reed was not signed by us. He's gone to the Jets.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

As we expected, Reed was not signed by us. He's gone to the Jets.

Haven't seen a report that suggested we even tried to contact him; in Bill I trust.

Son Of A Vidic

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Haven't seen a report that suggested we even tried to contact him; in Bill I trust.

During yesterday's press conference Bill just deflected the Reed question and didn't even entertain it. Reed is not the player he was 3-4 years ago so a move was pointless. Much better to focus on developing our young bucks, than given up a spot to a vet who probably should be retired.

BizzyC

According to NFL.com he chose Jets over the Pats due to the familiarity with the coached staff....

I'd be surprised if he received any offer from us, but wouldn't be if a "feeler" call was made to him. It'd be like Bill to take a quick look.

Son Of A Vidic

BizzyC wrote: »

According to NFL.com he chose Jets over the Pats due to the familiarity with the coached staff....

I'd be surprised if he received any offer from us, but wouldn't be if a "feeler" call was made to him. It'd be like Bill to take a quick look.

Bill: "Hey Ed, fancy taking a few million dollars pay cut?"

Ed: "Nope."

Bill: "Bye."

j8wk2feszrnpao

Gregory is out.
Talib and Dennard both limited. If neither start, it could go bad early in this game.

Son Of A Vidic

We just released WR LaQuan Williams. He was only a special teams stop gap anyway. But more importantly the free roster spot will undoubtedly now go to Vereen when he's activated off IR.

TO.

Howdy dudes been a while but you guys will appreciate this. The local high school playing a conf champ game and guess who was standing beside me. Had to creep a shot as he didn't want a pic taken.



edit. Devin McCourty will fix link later

Son Of A Vidic

Welcome back TO., is that Devin in the pic?

Edit: just saw the edit.

TO.

Here is another one.



The Oliver Ames Tigers lost last night though in the Champ game. After dominating the whole season long they lost in the final of the conference. No State Championships for them now. Disappointing loss.

me89

Dennard is officially out for Monday.

Talib looks good to go, we need him now.

eagle eye

me89 wrote: »

Dennard is officially out for Monday.

Talib looks good to go, we need him now.

Where did you get that Talib is good to go, he is still questionable and so is Arrington.

Son Of A Vidic

eagle eye wrote: »

Where did you get that Talib is good to go, he is still questionable and so is Arrington.

To make matters worse, Dennard(knee) has now been ruled out.

kryogen

me89 wrote: »

Dennard is officially out for Monday.

Talib looks good to go, we need him now.

eagle eye wrote: »

Where did you get that Talib is good to go, he is still questionable and so is Arrington.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

To make matters worse, Dennard(knee) has now been ruled out.

Weird

Son Of A Vidic

kryogen wrote: »

Weird

Not weird, just an oversight. I totally missed the earlier comment that was made about Dennard's status.

JaMarcus Hustle

Ian Rapoport reported on NFL Network that barring a late setback, we'll be activating Shane Vereen for tomorrow's game

Son Of A Vidic

Billy86 - my reply to your post in WWA thread

Billy86 wrote: »

I may have exaggerated, but 8-10 QBs could be plugged in and they would still have a similar record of 7-2 or 6-3.

But that just remains completely pointless speculation. And the only way we’ll ever know, is by taking the entire pass attack away from any of these 8 -10 QB you speak of. Maybe Manning, Rodgers and Brees would, but 8-10 QB’s? No, I’m not buying it at all. But since I’m on the topic of speculation, it reminds me. Sure why did I waste my time playing American Football in London. When I reckon if I had of played in the States, I could have made the Pats roster and become a perennial probowler and a guaranteed HOFER.

Billy86 wrote: »

Gates missed weeks 9, 11, 15, 16 and 17 (playing injured in 12, 13 & 14)

Half the league plays injured, it’s an occupational hazard. Welker spent half of last season limping on and off the sideline, yet he never missed a game.

Billy86 wrote: »

Vincent Jackson missed up to week 12

Along with the loss of Gates, his loss was probably the only significant loss to their offense for 2010.

Billy86 wrote: »

Malcolm Floyd missed weeks 7, 8, 9, 15 & 16

45 receptions for 776 yards and 37 for 717 in 2010. So his production was virtually the same from 2009.

Billy86 wrote: »

Legedu Nanee missed weeks 6-12 and 14

24 receptions for 242 yards in 2009 and ended up with a better 2010

Billy86 wrote: »

Buster Davis went out for the season in week 7, and his career was effectively over from then on.

Yet he had a much better season in 2010 than 2009, where he only had 6 receptions for 52 yards.

Billy86 wrote: »

Kasim Osgood went to the Jaguars and he

was 1 reception for for 17 yards in 2009. So Like Davies, was he even a loss?

Billy86 wrote: »

LT went to the Jets

That’s what I said.

Billy86 wrote: »

Michael Bennett went to the Raiders

And in 2009 he was 6 receptions for 65 yards and would such production be even missed?

Billy86 wrote: »

Demetrius Byrd was released before the season began

Again another player who did nothing, so where’s the loss?

Billy86 wrote: »

Jacob Hester stayed healthy all year but was a ST guy (9 catches in 2009, 22 in 2010)

9 receptions for 24 yards in 2009. And he increased his production in 2010 to 22 receptions for 145 yards in 2010. So where’s the negative impact?

To recap, we’re not talking about some players missing some games, or losing one or two important WR’s. I was talking about the loss of virtually an entire offense, gone, finite, no more. And not just any offense, but the top scoring offense of 2012, the top scoring redzone offense of 2012 and the top 3rd down conversion offense of 2012. And that is totally unprecedented. I don’t even know how you can even compare an elite offense to the players you listed there. There is no comparison imo.

Billy86 wrote: »

A noticeable difference is that while Brady had the preseason to work with some of the Patriots new WRs which does also help.

Well unfortunately preseason prep didn't help Zach Sudfield. He looked like a superstar in the making during the preseason. He demonstrated fantastic soft hands, made incredibly difficult catches and was given the nickname mini-Gronk by the media. Then the season started, he was totally lost on the field and disappeared completely. So much for preseason.

But there’s preseason and then there’s the real season. No amount of preseason can prepare a new offense that is largely based on rookies, for the big bad world of the NFL. As if the preseason could somehow make up for the loss of quality the Pats offense suffered.

Billy86 wrote: »

The likes of Seyi Arijotutu, Randy McMichael, Patrick Wilson, Curtis Brinkley and Korey Sperry were signed in the wake of these injuries and were playing in those games just days later.

How is that even unique or warrant a mention? These signings happen every year for every team. Players come and go on team rosters all the time.

Billy86 wrote: »

Again, Edelman had even if as a peripheral player, in week 1 there was Vereen also - both had 7 receptions. Added to that, most of the guys had not caught a pass in a competitive game from him before, but had done so in preseason which should not be overlooked.

Edelman had to get more reps this season, because he ended up as the only guy on the field who actually caught passes from Brady in 2012. He really was Brady’s number 7 option in 2012, but he had to become the number one option at the start of the season. Vereen broke his wrist in the first game, so he was gone. He was expected to play a huge role in our offense this season, so his was yet another massive loss for us.

Billy86 wrote: »

In the seven games between that a Pittsburgh he did have, as I have said already, huge WR issues. But he also went 142-of-265 (53.5%) for 1,536 yards (5.8/att and 219/game), with 7 TDs, 5 INTs which gives a QBR of 71.83.

Just ask yourself, why did the Pats go from the best offense in 2012 to a shadow of themselves so far in 2013? Why has Brady’s stats been affected so dramatically? Is it because of the loss of Welker, Gronk, Lloyd, Woodhead, Hernandez, Vereen, oh and I previously forgot to mention Dion Branch. We lost our TE based dominant offense and a style of offense that Belichick mastered in recent seasons and which has been much copied. Or are the poor stats just because Brady has suddenly become shyte overnight? Decide for yourself.

Billy86 wrote: »

It was not Brady that won those games (which that article tries to suggest and which was the whole point of my initial post)

Who said otherwise? I said in my last two posts that Brady himself has given all credit to the defense this season and rightly so.

Billy86 wrote: »

You can point to moments like the game-winning drive against the Saints, and with validity, but in truth he had a poor game that day outside of that drive

A poor game by his standard, yet there are few QB’s in the league that could lead the game winning drive like he did with 5 seconds left. Not for the first time in his career, he delivered when it mattered. To reiterate my point, sometimes you have to take QBR ratings with a pinch of salt. Because at the end of the day, this league is about winning games and not ratings.

Another significant change this season which I have so far omitted, has been the at times very poor play from the O line. Brady has already taken some serious hits this season compared to last year. He's nearly equaled the sack total for last season already and is on course to be sacked 43% more in 2013. Bad enough having to break in a new offense and then have an O line letting you down.

Billy86 wrote: »

I've been following the NFL for 11 years now but only started posting here recently. Last year I had the same opinion of the Manning "MVP" talk when he was playing for a team that Tim Tebow had got to the playoffs with (then again my main issue with that award is calling it 'most valuable' - glad it went to Peterson).

Been a fan since the early Eighties myself and I have never regarded the MVP award. It’s nothing more than a popularity competition. All too often, great players around the league do their thing week in week out, without any hype or credit attached to it. There’s more to football than a star QB, WR, RB or even a ‘star’ pass rusher getting all the hype.

BKWDR

Looking at final 7 games, there's not a whole lot of reason why we cant finish 12-4 or better (injuries aside)

What games are you worried about most?

Broncos, Browns and Dolphins will be the toughest of all thats left.
Houston and Baltimore have had stinkers and dont seem to be really turning their season around. I fancy us against Carolina tonight and unless its a do or die game for the bills, should be no problem

j8wk2feszrnpao

With regards to Brady; for the last two weeks, I've watched a lot of football with the Pats having the bye and not playing till tonight.

We are so fortunate to still have Tom Brady. Corvus has outlined the issues that Tom has had to deal with (receivers and OL) and yet we are 7:2. There are a handful of QB's who would have coped as well as Tom did with the offensive changes that we suffered in the fist half of the season.

Look around the league and see the QB's that are struggling, i.e. the collapse of Matt Ryan and the Falcons

j8wk2feszrnpao

BKWDR wrote: »

What games are you worried about most?

The injuries on the defensive side could be too much, so we are going to be venerable to to most teams.
I'm hopeful that offense will now pick things up and get us scoring again to make up for the pts we may concede.

The D bailed us out in the first half of the season, we're going to be relying on the offense to aid us now.

Son Of A Vidic

Odin Brief Watchband wrote: »

With regards to Brady; for the last two weeks, I've watched a lot of football with the Pats having the bye and not playing till tonight.

We are so fortunate to still have Tom Brady. Corvus has outlined the issues that Tom has had to deal with (receivers and OL) and yet we are 7:2. There are a handful of QB's who would have coped as well as Tom did with the offensive changes that we suffered in the fist half of the season.

Look around the league and see the QB's that are struggling, i.e. the collapse of Matt Ryan and the Falcons

Another Brady record which is always overlooked, is the amount of receiver turnover he's been throughout his career. Brady has thrown a TD pass to 50 different targets in his career :eek:. No other QB comes even close. The closes is Peyton who has thrown a TD to 40 different targets, or 25% less and he's played 2 more seasons than Brady. It's a record which illustrates the constant change Brady has had to deal with.

me89

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 3h Patriots RB Shane Vereen will be active for tonight's game. Patriots plan to ease him in after he has missed 2-plus months with wrist injury


Excited to have him back, brings a whole new dimension to the offense:)

BKWDR

Gonna watch tomorrow and hopefully avoid hearing the result to home from work

Son Of A Vidic

Great to have Vereen back but here comes the big question. In his 3 years, the one thing he has shown is persistent durability issues. So if he's back, can he stay back for the next seven games and then last into the playoffs? That's the big worry I have.

me89

That makes next weeks game even bigger.

Billy86

Half the league plays injured, it’s an occupational hazard. Welker spent half of last season limping on and off the sideline, yet he never missed a game.
Along with the loss of Gates, his loss was probably the only significant loss to their offense for 2010.
45 receptions for 776 yards and 37 for 717 in 2010. So his production was virtually the same from 2009.
24 receptions for 242 yards in 2009 and ended up with a better 2010
Yet he had a much better season in 2010 than 2009, where he only had 6 receptions for 52 yards.
was 1 reception for for 17 yards in 2009. So Like Davies, was he even a loss?
That’s what I said.
And in 2009 he was 6 receptions for 65 yards and would such production be even missed?
Again another player who did nothing, so where’s the loss?
9 receptions for 24 yards in 2009. And he increased his production in 2010 to 22 receptions for 145 yards in 2010. So where’s the negative impact?

To recap, we’re not talking about some players missing some games, or losing one or two important WR’s. I was talking about the loss of virtually an entire offense, gone, finite, no more. And not just any offense, but the top scoring offense of 2012, the top scoring redzone offense of 2012 and the top 3rd down conversion offense of 2012. And that is totally unprecedented. I don’t even know how you can even compare an elite offense to the players you listed there. There is no comparison imo.

But that's just completely ignoring that Rivers had none of his 2009 WR/TEs, (and later only a playing-injured Floyd) yet played far better than Brady did when he had his WR/TE corps completely depleted. He wasn't just missing one here or one there - there were times when he was missing all of them

Brady had difficult circumstances for that stretch, but he did slump noticeably below his standards at times and was not playing like Tom Brady but rather a top 8-10 QB. And that's OK. It happens to everyone. Peyton Manning in 2010 had a really iffy middle of the season when they went 1-4 (he had no defense or running game to bail him out), before finishing the season in excellent form. Like I said in the other thread, Brady is looking to be getting it all back now - I thought he had a great game vs Carolina.

Well unfortunately preseason prep didn't help Zach Sudfield. He looked like a superstar in the making during the preseason. He demonstrated fantastic soft hands, made incredibly difficult catches and was given the nickname mini-Gronk by the media. Then the season started, he was totally lost on the field and disappeared completely. So much for preseason.

But there’s preseason and then there’s the real season. No amount of preseason can prepare a new offense that is largely based on rookies, for the big bad world of the NFL. As if the preseason could somehow make up for the loss of quality the Pats offense suffered.

And you're going to completely ignore that preseason gives players like Amendola who was tested in the league time to get used to the system, as well as of course rookies Playing in preseason is a huge advantage for players new to a team or the league, compared to someone who is signed on Monday or Tuesday and starting on Sunday. It's not even debatable. You also only have two rookies with double digit catches - one is a UDFA who looks to have been a great bit of scouting, the other is a second rounder. It's not as rookie-centric as some in the media and elsewhere are making out at times.

How is that even unique or warrant a mention? These signings happen every year for every team. Players come and go on team rosters all the time.

Because those guys, Sproles (who Turner didn't use like Sean Payton does) and Tolbert were Rivers only options for a while. He didn't have time to gel with them in preseason and they didn't have time to get used to the playbook either. They were all signed within days of their San Diego debuts to cover for injuries, and not a single on of them is in the league anymore. It wasn't like one of them played in the team at a go - that was Rivers' whole WR/TE corps over the period I brought up for comparison. Hence my point on why it is really not as unprecedented as the media have at times made out.

Just ask yourself, why did the Pats go from the best offense in 2012 to a shadow of themselves so far in 2013? Why has Brady’s stats been affected so dramatically? Is it because of the loss of Welker, Gronk, Lloyd, Woodhead, Hernandez, Vereen, oh and I previously forgot to mention Dion Branch. We lost our TE based dominant offense and a style of offense that Belichick mastered in recent seasons and which has been much copied. Or are the poor stats just because Brady has suddenly become shyte overnight? Decide for yourself.

Of course they play a big factor - I have already said they have - but so does Brady struggling to adjust to it. Which was my initial point - that it's hilarious how parts the media literally go out of their way to pretend that wasn't the case.

Another significant change this season which I have so far omitted, has been the at times very poor play from the O line. Brady has already taken some serious hits this season compared to last year. He's nearly equaled the sack total for last season already and is on course to be sacked 43% more in 2013. Bad enough having to break in a new offense and then have an O line letting you down.

Vollmer has missed the last 2-3 games and is done obviously but was replaced by a veteran who has been in 3rd year vet all spent in NE. Apart from that it's the exact same untouched line you guys have had for three years now, ranging from 25 - 31 years of age. Your running game doesn't seem to be struggling much at all behind the same line, either. Did you changes coaches or styles there or something?

Been a fan since the early Eighties myself and I have never regarded the MVP award. It’s nothing more than a popularity competition. All too often, great players around the league do their thing week in week out, without any hype or credit attached to it. There’s more to football than a star QB, WR, RB or even a ‘star’ pass rusher getting all the hype.

Got to agree - they might as well just rename the thing at this point, but then again the 'MVP' is all about branding and sponsorships at this point.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Another Brady record which is always overlooked, is the amount of receiver turnover he's been throughout his career. Brady has thrown a TD pass to 50 different targets in his career :eek:. No other QB comes even close. The closes is Peyton who has thrown a TD to 40 different targets, or 25% less and he's played 2 more seasons than Brady. It's a record which illustrates the constant change Brady has had to deal with.

The closest is actually Drew Brees who has thrown TDs to 46 different receivers, and has played one season less than Brady and is 2 years younger.