New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

Son Of A Vidic

eagle eye wrote: »

Agree with everything else in your post but I don't want to see Ridley near the field in the playoffs. You are up against the best defenders there and the guy cannot be trusted to hold onto the ball. The playoffs is the last place I want to see him at this stage. Maybe a good offseason can help him to become a great one but you just can't trust him right now to hold onto the ball. I'll be surprised if he gets any snaps again this year.

I really like the guy but winning is what this game is all about especially when it comes to playoff time.

We are 4 games away from the playoffs and I'd rather get him back before then. Now if he fumbles again before the playoffs, then absolutely bench him for the season. Right now I just don't think our RB's are good enough without Ridley.

dh1985

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

We are 4 games away from the playoffs and I'd rather get him back before then. Now if he fumbles again before the playoffs, then absolutely bench him for the season. Right now I just don't think our RB's are good enough without Ridley.

Definitely think ridley will get one more shot before the play offs. It will be up to him to do the rest. Maybe in a game where offense is on top and if he does make a mistake it wont be as costly as in a playoff scenario. To be fair to bolden he did have a couple of impressive games at the start of last season but I dont think he has the finesse that ridley possesses. It will help the aerial attack and give more time to brady if there is a legitimate ground game in place.

Son Of A Vidic

Ridley was the most consistent RB we had. Blount's size is particularly effective in the 4th quarter as a battering ram against tired defenses. Boldin has not recaptured the early 2012 season form you were speaking off. Bill might give them 2 more games without Ridley to see can they really step it up. He might then bring Ridley back for the last 2 games, to see if ball security has improved. Wild speculation of course, or maybe EE is right, maybe Bill has benched him for the season. Although my gut tells me I think he will give him another shot.

eagle eye

TO. wrote: »

So do we depend on Bolden and Vereen to carry most of the load then?

I think we have to but its not just the two of them, Blount has been pretty good too. Stats show that Ridley has the worst ypc of the four of them. I'm not saying that means he is worse than them as a runner obviously just that the others have been very affective. Vereen is averaging 5.1, Bolden 4.9 and Blount 4.4, Ridley is at 4.3. Those are all good numbers.

Son Of A Vidic

One area where Ridley stands out is in the redzone, especially 2-3 yards out. I can't remember which game it was but it was a few weeks back. Ridley was injured at the time, you guys might remember it when I recall the weird play selection. We passed the ball down the field pretty well, got into the redzone and to first and goal. Suddenly we called three consecutive run plays. We got nowhere and ended up kicking a field goal. It might have been the Bengals game but I could be wrong. Anyway my point is, I remember thinking to myself, those are the situations where Ridley is so effective and we missed him that day.

TO.

eagle eye wrote: »

I think we have to but its not just the two of them, Blount has been pretty good too. Stats show that Ridley has the worst ypc of the four of them. I'm not saying that means he is worse than them as a runner obviously just that the others have been very affective. Vereen is averaging 5.1, Bolden 4.9 and Blount 4.4, Ridley is at 4.3. Those are all good numbers.

Blount has 1 less fumble than Ridley though. Ridley has 3 Blount has 2. If we are going to bench Ridley due to fumbles surely doing the same for Blount would have to happen. Both are the same liability really when it comes to carrying the ball.

Personally I think we should start playing Ridley more. This benching thing has not proven to be effective at all. Adrian Peterson has 19 fumbles in his 7 seasons and 2 the season he went over 2,000 yards. Do the Vikings bench him for fumbling a lot? No why would they. I think this benching thing has more of a profound affect to a guys confidence than it does to motivate him to hang on to the ball. Just look at the leagues leading rushers right now this season. Peterson 3 Fumbles, McCoy 1, Charles 4, Morris 2, Forte 2, Lynch 3, Bush 4.

Fumbles suck and as someone who has coached the sport it hurts to watch and makes one disappointed with a player but it comes with the Territory with RBs. Positive reinforcement in my eyes is the way to go and it doesn't matter if a guy is a pro or a pee wee player it is all the same. Bill needs to start showing a tad more faith in these guys. Having Ridley on the sideline wrecking his confidence is pointless at best.

bruschi

I'm also in the give Ridley another shot camp. What game was it recently, where he had a forced fumble but was kept in and had a very productive game after.

edit: Steelers game. and he went for 115 yards and 2 TDs in that one. He was brought straight back in and was productive on his next plays after that fumble.

eagle eye

There are times where you can't really fault the player for the fumbles but in Ridley's case it was deffo his fault with a loose carrying motion the last time he fumbled. You could see him after the play disgusted with himself. It's quite clear they have worked with him on this but he just reverts to doing the same thing again and again.

When he irons that out of his game I've no doubt he will be back atop the depth chart but we are still chasing the no.1 seed in the AFC and I just don't see him getting any opportunities unless we are out of contention for that spot.

TO.

eagle eye wrote: »

There are times where you can't really fault the player for the fumbles but in Ridley's case it was deffo his fault with a loose carrying motion the last time he fumbled. You could see him after the play disgusted with himself. It's quite clear they have worked with him on this but he just reverts to doing the same thing again and again.

When he irons that out of his game I've no doubt he will be back atop the depth chart but we are still chasing the no.1 seed in the AFC and I just don't see him getting any opportunities unless we are out of contention for that spot.

Blount was at fault for both his fumbles this year. Peterson 100% at fault for 2 of his. I could pic out vids upon vids of RBs experienced ones at that still carrying the ball at times like a bread basket and loosing the ball. It happens to the best of backs.

You could see him after the play disgusted with himself. It's quite clear they have worked with him on this but he just reverts to doing the same thing again and again.

Partly because he knew he was going to be riding the pine pony for a while. And this is where the benching system fails to work. You can teach a guy all the fundamentals you want when it comes to carrying a ball but those same fundamentals will fail him more than a couple of times a season. Other elite backs prove that.

For me I think Bill has bought too far into his own method at this point. It clearly isnt making Ridley any better so why not try giving him carries again and build up his confidence because you can see his confidence goes to **** after he drops a ball and knows he is done for the game.

dh1985

TO. wrote: »

Blount was at fault for both his fumbles this year. Peterson 100% at fault for 2 of his. I could pic out vids upon vids of RBs experienced ones at that still carrying the ball at times like a bread basket and loosing the ball. It happens to the best of backs.



Partly because he knew he was going to be riding the pine pony for a while. And this is where the benching system fails to work. You can teach a guy all the fundamentals you want when it comes to carrying a ball but those same fundamentals will fail him more than a couple of times a season. Other elite backs prove that.

For me I think Bill has bought too far into his own method at this point. It clearly isnt making Ridley any better so why not try giving him carries again and build up his confidence because you can see his confidence goes to **** after he drops a ball and knows he is done for the game.

Would definitely forgive blount for his fumble against the broncos. He got an blow to the head and dropped the ball due to that and not due to been to loose with it as per ridleys fumble two possesions or so earlier. Do agree that ridley needs his confidence boosted. But would also like to see ridley getting his head down and doing his job and not be looking to the crowd for acclamation after rushing for 7-8 yards on a down and then drop the ball on the next play for a TD as he did in the broncos game.

Tristram

TO. wrote: »

Blount has 1 less fumble than Ridley though. Ridley has 3 Blount has 2. If we are going to bench Ridley due to fumbles surely doing the same for Blount would have to happen. Both are the same liability really when it comes to carrying the ball.

Personally I think we should start playing Ridley more. This benching thing has not proven to be effective at all. Adrian Peterson has 19 fumbles in his 7 seasons and 2 the season he went over 2,000 yards. Do the Vikings bench him for fumbling a lot? No why would they. I think this benching thing has more of a profound affect to a guys confidence than it does to motivate him to hang on to the ball. Just look at the leagues leading rushers right now this season. Peterson 3 Fumbles, McCoy 1, Charles 4, Morris 2, Forte 2, Lynch 3, Bush 4.

Fumbles suck and as someone who has coached the sport it hurts to watch and makes one disappointed with a player but it comes with the Territory with RBs. Positive reinforcement in my eyes is the way to go and it doesn't matter if a guy is a pro or a pee wee player it is all the same. Bill needs to start showing a tad more faith in these guys. Having Ridley on the sideline wrecking his confidence is pointless at best.

There hasn't been a post on this forum to date that I agree with more strongly. This is something that really bugs me about the NFL. I don't understand benching/refusing to play your best RB after he makes a mistake. How is that supposed to help him improve? I think it can only hurt RBs in the long run by limiting their playing time and damaging their confidence. I'm really glad to see the stats above posted. Great post.

eagle eye

Tristram wrote: »

There hasn't been a post on this forum to date that I agree with more strongly. This is something that really bugs me about the NFL. I don't understand benching/refusing to play your best RB after he makes a mistake. How is that supposed to help him improve? I think it can only hurt RBs in the long run by limiting their playing time and damaging their confidence. I'm really glad to see the stats above posted. Great post.

FFS he cost us a game with one of his fumbles. Right now that loss has cost us the no.1 seed in the AFC.

How on earth can you sit there and just forget that? He has three fumbles in four games, its not like they are spread out over the whole season.

bruschi

eagle eye wrote: »

FFS he cost us a game with one of his fumbles. Right now that loss has cost us the no.1 seed in the AFC.

How on earth can you sit there and just forget that? He has three fumbles in four games, its not like they are spread out over the whole season.

so we only count the negatives with him, not the positives? Far more than Ridley cost us a game, but if you say he cost us a game then does he not get credit for winning games too?

BKWDR

Next stop Foxborough....

Silver-Tiger

Is Talib going to be able to shut this animal down? No matter who is qb i would imagine he will be targeted 18 times.

Patriots D/St anytime touchdown is bet of the week for me.

eagle eye

bruschi wrote: »

so we only count the negatives with him, not the positives? Far more than Ridley cost us a game, but if you say he cost us a game then does he not get credit for winning games too?

Teams win games not one player but his fumble definitely cost us a score in the Carolina game.

In the Denver game his fumble was a ten point swing where they ran it back to go up by seven and cost us at least a field goal.

Without him and down seven points we came back and won against Denver. Why do you want him back in when we go beat the no.1 seed in the AFC without him?

bruschi

eagle eye wrote: »

Teams win games not one player but his fumble definitely cost us a score in the Carolina game.

In the Denver game his fumble was a ten point swing where they ran it back to go up by seven and cost us at least a field goal.

Without him and down seven points we came back and won against Denver. Why do you want him back in when we go beat the no.1 seed in the AFC without him?

we also beat the No1 seed without Wilfork, Mayo and other players, but just because we beat them without those players does not necessarily mean we dont need any of them back. (I understand they are injured, just making the point that beating a team without a player is not a pre requisite for leaving them off full time.)

I would have him back because he is our best running back. simple as that. I dont think any of the other options are as good as him running the ball. he may as well be cut now if this is the approach we are having with him.

eagle eye

bruschi wrote: »

we also beat the No1 seed without Wilfork, Mayo and other players, but just because we beat them without those players does not necessarily mean we dont need any of them back. (I understand they are injured, just making the point that beating a team without a player is not a pre requisite for leaving them off full time.)

Those other players didn't cost us points in those games though. They are missing and its tough to be without them but thats a whole different issue.

bruschi wrote: »

I would have him back because he is our best running back. simple as that. I dont think any of the other options are as good as him running the ball. he may as well be cut now if this is the approach we are having with him.

He is not our best running back when he is coughing up the ball regularly and giving us less of a chance to win games.

He might look good when he is doing his job properly but he has to do it properly all the time. The Patriots and Bill Belichick have had huge success for a long number of years now and one of the key things behind that success is making less mistakes than the opposition. If a player is making mistakes that's costing the team points he does not belong on the field in a Patriots uniform.

As it stands and I mentioned it earlier, he has less ypc than all the other RBs on the Patriots roster. He does some great things but he clearly is making mistakes that is costing him ypc on a regular basis. The other guys mightn't look as exciting but they are doing their job correctly, following their blockers and gaining what is expected of them no more, no less.

I'm still a Ridley fan but when I'm watching a Patriots game from here on I'll be nervous for the wrong reasons every time I see Ridley on the field. I'll be hoping he just doesn't lose the ball. If he can sort it out then I'd love nothing more than to see him back doing his thing but for now at this late stage of the season and us in with the chance of that no.1 seed I really would much prefer to not see him and that goes for the playoffs as well.

Son Of A Vidic

Silver-Tiger wrote: »

Is Talib going to be able to shut this animal down?

The Talib that we saw in the first 6 weeks of the season would have. But No, not the Talib who's been carrying the hip injury for weeks now. He's nowhere near 100%.

TO.

eagle eye wrote: »

Teams win games not one player but his fumble definitely cost us a score in the Carolina game.

So what. Tom Brady has thrown picks that cost us a game or score does that mean we should bench him?

In the Denver game his fumble was a ten point swing where they ran it back to go up by seven and cost us at least a field goal.

Yeah it was **** to watch and bad form that Ridley coughed it up but the main point here is that benching him will never be a good thing if we want a solid rusher back. Brady has made a ton of mistakes this season as have our WR as have most of our defense. It comes with the game. Fix your mistakes in practice and get it done the following Sunday. But benching a guy and dropping him has become just as ineffective as his ball carrying right now.

Without him and down seven points we came back and won against Denver. Why do you want him back in when we go beat the no.1 seed in the AFC without him?

How do you know he wouldnt have come back on the field and punched in a few TDs. Such a stupid thing to say really. Oh we won without him so that justifies benching him.

We could say that about a lot of things we did wrong this season. Christ the Pats season is full of what ifs. But making Ridley out to be a scapegoat or a liability only after 3 fumbles is nonsense at best. He doesn't even lead the pack in the NFL when it comes to costly fumbles.

TO.

eagle eye wrote: »

He is not our best running back when he is coughing up the ball regularly and giving us less of a chance to win games.

Maybe not but we could sure use him and Vereen firing on all cylinders. I love how people have turned on Ridley so much.

He might look good when he is doing his job properly but he has to do it properly all the time. The Patriots and Bill Belichick have had huge success for a long number of years now and one of the key things behind that success is making less mistakes than the opposition. If a player is making mistakes that's costing the team points he does not belong on the field in a Patriots uniform.

You are preaching what we all know but for its worth Corey Dillon and Antwain Smith coughed up footballs in our Superbowl winning seasons and never got benched for it.

I'm still a Ridley fan but when I'm watching a Patriots game from here on I'll be nervous for the wrong reasons every time I see Ridley on the field. I'll be hoping he just doesn't lose the ball.

We can all agree on this but same can be said about our Oline protecting Brady and Brady not throwing picks and finding open WR and Blount also not dropping more balls and our WR not dropping extremely catchable footballs and our Defense not leaking easy yards especially in the secondary.

If he can sort it out then I'd love nothing more than to see him back doing his thing but for now at this late stage of the season and us in with the chance of that no.1 seed I really would much prefer to not see him and that goes for the playoffs as well.

I don't agree and its a shame so many have turned on Ridley considering he has only 1 more fumble than Blount and a lot less fumbles than some of the other elite backs. As Pats fans we are focusing on far too many negatives and I get the feeling Bill is trying to be Bill and prove a point but its not working for Ridley and dropping him is not the way to go.

Personally though I will never hold one guy responsible for us winning or losing or getting nervous over 1 guy costing us anything.Yes Ridley should hang on to the ball better we all know it but I will never blame him for costing us anything. It would nuts to blame one guy for costing us a game or a chance to get the top seed even if his mistake cost us a score. He is 1 ingredient of many.

bruschi

if I had time, which I might do later, but I'd like to see Ridleys fumbles in relation to touches of the ball in comparison with both our team, and across the league.

TO.

bruschi wrote: »

if I had time, which I might do later, but I'd like to see Ridleys fumbles in relation to touches of the ball in comparison with both our team, and across the league.

Carries and Fumbles

Patriots
Ridley 135 3
Blount 94 2
Bolden 54 0
Vereen 35 0

Top 10 RB in NFL by Rushing yards
Peterson 261 3
McCoy 232 1
Charles 219 4
Morris 206 2
Forte 214 2
Lynch 224 3
Bush 180 4
Moreno 202 1
Lacy 207 1
Gore 203 3

Son Of A Vidic

^ ^ ^

Lacy had 1 fumble in the game against the 49er's, I only remember because I watched the game. I think he was benched for the rest of the first half. But he was back on the field for the second half.

me89

60 days in jail for Dennard starting March 1st. At least he won't miss any playing time. He needs to cop on tho, he has to much talent to waste by being locked up

Son Of A Vidic

me89 wrote: »

60 days in jail for Dennard starting March 1st. At least he won't miss any playing time. He needs to cop on tho, he has to much talent to waste by being locked up

He will cop on, he's a good kid and the authorities have praised his attitude and community work.

In other news, Dobson is still out with the foot injury and Thompkins is banged up with Sunday's hip injury. I really hope they can get back for the business end of the season, because the experience will be invaluable for them.

Austin Collie has been resigned as cover, so he must have overcome the knee injury that he picked up.

Son Of A Vidic

With Bolden out, it's no surprise to see Ridley active for today's game. Hopefully he'll get a good few reps, because he needs to sort things out before the playoffs. As talented as he is, three fumbles in three games is not good enough from any RB. He needs to regain people's trust very quickly.

A pain in the ass to see our two rookie WR's out injured. I hope they can get back onto the field soon. With Brady's target list finally beginning to look like how it should have been this year. Having the young rookies now on the field, could be more valuable than ever.

j8wk2feszrnpao

I really hate it refs blow up early for forward progress. Let the players make a play.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Awful start by Tom.

Son Of A Vidic

Odin Brief Watchband wrote: »

Awful start by Tom.

Awful start by the offense. Edelman drops a ball he should have caught and Dobson & Thompkins probably would have caught the very first missed pass which sailed past Gronk.