New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

j8wk2feszrnpao

Well, we're seeing why Boyce didn't see much action this season; another guy with too many dropped passes.

Offence struggling today without Gronk when they are third and long.

j8wk2feszrnpao

I hate that call. 3rd and 2, and we don't try punch it twice on the ground.
Isn't that what we have Blount for.
Again, offence settling for three after a good drive.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Tough loss, but it's kinda been coming.
Our current D is gonna allow mid 20 points.
That was sort of ok when the offence had Gronk. But these are the games we'll lose without Gronk to get us towards 30pts.

Full credit to Edelman today, had a huge game.

me89

Thought Brady, Edelman and Danny were great today we just had no third option in the pass game, hopefully we can get Thompkins and Dobson back quick.

Jolly Red Giant

Pats had a chance to take control of AFC seedings and failed.

Looks like both the Pats and Broncos have failings on the defensive side of the ball that will need to be corrected if they are to make a SB run.

Son Of A Vidic

It you look at the couple of big catches that Amendola and Edelman didn't make. You can see we really missed the height and spring of Dobson and Thompkins. It's not a criticism of Danny and Julian, just that with their size, they ideally belong in the slot. I hope the young guys get back ASAP. They give us a wider and more vertical threat. With Danny and Julian teams like the Dolphins did today, will just flood the middle.

me89

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

It you look at the couple of big catches that Amendola and Edelman didn't make. You can see we really missed the height and spring of Dobson and Thompkins. It's not a criticism of Danny and Julian, just that with their size, they ideally belong in the slot. I hope the young guys get back ASAP. They give us a wider and more vertical threat. With Danny and Julian teams like the Dolphins did today, will just flood the middle.

Just to add another injury to the list.

Boyce missed the end of the game and left the stadium with a limp.

Son Of A Vidic

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Pats had a chance to take control of AFC seedings and failed.

Looks like both the Pats and Broncos have failings on the defensive side of the ball that will need to be corrected if they are to make a SB run.

You telling us something we don't know?

We've had one of the worst defenses in the league for years and it's something we've always had to deal with. Cole comes on the field and gives up a TD, yes that's the very Cole that cost us the TD's in the AFC title game last year. It took us long enough to get rid of Chung and Dowling and your really wonder when will Cole get the boot.

I predicted 11-5 in the prediction thread and no SB appearance. And that was before both sides of ball was decimated with injuries. I could be right yet because I can't see us beating the Ravens next week. Our road form has been quite poor this year and if we have to travel in the playoffs, then it could be an early exit.

Son Of A Vidic

me89 wrote: »

Just to add another injury to the list.

Boyce missed the end of the game and left the stadium with a limp.

I'm sorry but I have to......


JESUS FúCKING CHRIST!!!!! Is there no end to it.

Jolly Red Giant

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

You telling us something we don't know?

We've had one of the worst defenses in the league for years and it's something we've always had to deal with. Cole comes on the field and gives up a TD, yes that's the very Cole that cost us the TD's in the AFC title game last year. It took us long enough to get rid of Chung and Dowling and your really wonder when will Cole get the boot.

I predicted 11-5 in the prediction thread and no SB appearance. And that was before both sides of ball was decimated with injuries. I could be right yet because I can't see us beating the Ravens next week. Our road form has been quite poor this year and if we have to travel in the playoffs, then it could be an early exit.

I can assure you that no Broncos fan would be looking forward to going to Foxboro in the play-offs - no matter how many injuries the Pats have.

Son Of A Vidic

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

I can assure you that no Broncos fan would be looking forward to going to Foxboro in the play-offs - no matter how many injuries the Pats have.

Ya but you won't be going so there's no need to worry. You have home field all the way.

Jolly Red Giant

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Ya but you won't be going so there's no need to worry. You have home field all the way.

The Broncos defence was so bad against the Bolts that anything could happen. The secondary is in bits and teams have figured out how to attack the LBs.

The Chiefs are still in the mix - they'll hammer the Raiders but do have the Colts and Bolts to finish out.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Looks like both the Pats and Broncos have failings on the defensive side of the ball that will need to be corrected if they are to make a SB run.

Not gonna happen for Pats.
We're not getting players back, and we're not gonna get healthier.
I've to give credit to Vellano/Jones/Ryan/Collins, who are been asked to perform as starters rather than learning from vets as they get limited reps.
It's development for the defensive rookies, and for the new WR rookies; but today was the same thing we're seen for the last few years, the D conceding mid 20's, and offence (without Gronk) not getting near 30pts.

BizzyC

I thought it was a good effort yesterday, going towards the end I still thought we could pull it out again, but I guess luck ran out.

Amendola and Edelman were great, but it's obvious to everyone that they're not enough.

If the Fins beat the Bills and Jets then there's the following scenarios:
1. Patriots beat Ravens and Bills - 2nd Seed, Bye Week
2. Patriots beat either Ravens or Bills - We win div, play at home vs Fins in Wildcard
3. Pats lose both games - 6th seed, away game in wildcard (likely Fins or Bengals)

Personally I think no.2 is most likely with a loss @ the Ravens and a win at home to the Bills.

If we somehow manage to win out, the only way to take top seed would be if KC or Denver dropped one more game each in the next 2 weeks.

Son Of A Vidic

I thought our run game was poor yesterday, while nobody made any mistakes. We were playing the 25th ranked run defense in the league and coming up with 96 yards is not good enough. Opponents were averaging 117 yard rushing against the Dolphins and we couldn't even get to that mark. You would have hoped to see maybe 150 + yards against a poor run defense.

Only 22 of our 81 offensive snaps yesterday were run plays, which says a lot about how effective it was. Full credit to Brady once again, because despite us becoming predictable with the pass only option. He put us in repeated positions to win the game. And it's not the first time in a game the our rushing attack has let us down. Or under performed when it could have done better against weaker rushing defenses.

Going 78% passing snaps and 22% rushing snaps is such a huge in-balance and makes the job of defense easier. With Gronk out, our RB's become more important than ever. But we really lack a RB that can step up and terrorise defenses. Going back to the start of the 2013 season and all our troubles with our new WR's. Our RB corp weren't really good enough to step it up and lead the offense. I have a feeling we might have some surprising changes at RB in the coming season.

BizzyC

I was surprised we didn't run more alright, especially when Mankins was playing LT.

Son Of A Vidic

Best moment of the game was the fantastic catch by Hoo Man. 1 target = 1 TD and then he isn't targeted again. Again I can't understand why we didn't give him a few more chances. I mean let's try and develop him further as pass catcher. Sometimes I think Josh tries to be a little bit too clever during games.

Worst moment of the game for me was Cole, the minute he stepped on the field he was targeted on a passing play and gave up the TD. Every time he steps onto the field he usually gives up a TD. He's so bad, that even a 2nd year QB knew to target him at the first opportunity. He has to go in the offseason.

BizzyC

At this point, I think it'd actually be better for us to miss the playoffs.

Better draft picks, longer offseason for injuries to recover and Kraft/Brady/Belechick coming back with a chip on their shoulders next season.

bruschi

BizzyC wrote: »

At this point, I think it'd actually be better for us to miss the playoffs.

Better draft picks, longer offseason for injuries to recover and Kraft/Brady/Belechick coming back with a chip on their shoulders next season.

no I still think its part of the development of players to play in the playoffs. the likes of Dobson and Thompkins and other rookies/unesperienced players need to get a playoff game or 2 in and see what the hype is about pure knock out football. plus, in some years time we will not be making playoffs regularly. we have been spoilt. we shouldnt take a playoff run for granted, no matter how bad things look right now. its always better to be in playoffs IMO.

Son Of A Vidic

I have to agree with bruschi, the playoffs should never be taken for granted. Any experience of them can only be a good for young the rookies. So even if we go out after the first game, I'll be happy if the young rookies can get some decent reps.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I have to agree with bruschi, the playoffs should never be taken for granted. Any experience of them can only be a good for young the rookies. So even if we go out after the first game, I'll be happy if the young rookies can get some decent reps.

Agreed.
Vellano/Jones/Ryan/Collins on defense, Boyce/KT/Boyce on offence, and even Ryan Allen on special teams; all these guys began the season with no NFL experience. They at worst should have 1 post season game under their belt by next season.
Personally, I'd hate to see us perform like the Giants/E.Manning has this season; which has shown that E.Manning never belongs in the same breath as Brady/P.Manning.

I don't know why we didn't run more yesterday. I thought it was crying out for more of Ridley/Blount.
I mentioned the 3rd and 2 in their red zone; I still don't understand how we didn't hand it off twice.

Son Of A Vidic

4 trips to the redzone with only 1 TD was a poor return. As well as Amendola and Edelman played yesterday, their size limits their redzone effectiveness. Having young Dobson with his '6' 3" frame and Thompkins with his '6' 1" could have made a difference for us. I also don't understand why didn't they even target Hoo Man again in the redzone. I thought the defense also screwed up big time on the Dolphins finally drive. Allowing a 3rd & 16 conversion and a 4th & something conversion, just wasn't good enough.

johnmcdnl

BizzyC wrote: »

If the Fins beat the Bills and Jets then there's the following scenarios:
1. Patriots beat Ravens and Bills - 2nd Seed, Bye Week
2. Patriots beat either Ravens or Bills - We win div, play at home vs Fins in Wildcard
3. Pats lose both games - 6th seed, away game in wildcard (likely Fins or Bengals)

Personally I think no.2 is most likely with a loss @ the Ravens and a win at home to the Bills.

If we somehow manage to win out, the only way to take top seed would be if KC or Denver dropped one more game each in the next 2 weeks.

Pats don't make playoffs if Ravens win out in this situation too - just for added interest to tonight's game. A Ravens loss guarantees the Pats a playoff spot. Think I'm correct in saying that.

eagle eye

I hear a lot of people talking about the D yesterday and some talking about needing bigger receivers, also Corvus on about Hoomanawanui not getting many looks.
Well for me yesterday the biggest culprits in our loss yesterday was the OL. They failed to protect Brady for most of the game. The sack numbers don't show that because Brady's pocket awareness is so good, he managed to avoid multiple sacks yesterday by moving around the pocket and also by getting good rid of the ball before they got to him on multiple occasions last night.

Brady rarely got time last night to let plays develop and that's why he couldn't target Hoomanawanui more.

Son Of A Vidic

When a defense can't push a team off the field on their final game winning drive, especially when they're at 3rd & 16 and 4th & 5. Well that has to totally on them. They also performed similarly badly when the Dolphins rushed down the field and scored just before half-time. The defense has also stopped producing turnovers in games which doesn't help our cause. The O line performed no better or worse than they have been all season. In fact on Sunday, Brady made his most pass attempts in any game all season @ 55 and completed 34 of them. The last time we played and beat the Dolphins at Gillette, Brady made only 22 pass attempts in the entire game. So personally, I couldn't blame the O line for Sunday's loss.

Edelman and Amendola will win yards for you all day, but once we get to the red zone and defenses get much tighter. Their lack of size can be and was an issue on Sunday. With Gronk on the field his presence draws defenders and creates space for these smaller guys. Amendola, Edelman and Collie are smaller slot WR's, so closing them down in the redzone is easy when you haven't a bigger target acting as a counter balance to keep defenses honest.

A guy at '5' 9" will have a tiny catch radius in comparison to a guy who's '6' 4" or in Gronk's case, '6' 6". Who will have a huge catch radius and a better ability to dominate the air and seize the ball. So for me the offensive issues on Sunday, came down to a lack of size in the redzone. Having no Dobson and Thompkins meant we couldn't stretch out, create more space and go for a wider set with our pass attack in the redzone. In the offseason, this team needs to find some more big targets at TE or WR to help fill the Gronk void.

TaosHum

From my perspective, I thought the Pats O-Line held up well for most of the game. It wasn't until the the 4th quarter that the Fins began to get pressure on Brady and that was down to Coyle sending more 5/6 man blitzes. For much of the first three quarters, the Fins only rushed four and struggled to put pressure on Brady.

Out of 55 passing attempts, the Fins had only one sack, 7 hits and 14 times pressured Brady. That's quite good considering Miami have some very good rushers in Wake, Vernon, Jordan and Odrick. You also have to take into account that your missing your starting RT in Vollmer, Solder was beat up and Mankins was forced to play LT. I was actually disappointed Miami didn't get to Brady more.

I would actually agree with Corvus on this. The Pats got away from the ground game too quickly in a game they led for large parts. Would have taken more pressure off of Brady and the Pats beat up O-Line.

me89

TaosHum wrote: »

From my perspective, I thought the Pats O-Line held up well for most of the game. It wasn't until the the 4th quarter that the Fins began to get pressure on Brady and that was down to Coyle sending more 5/6 man blitzes. For much of the first three quarters, the Fins only rushed four and struggled to put pressure on Brady.

The reason they didn't get much pressure in the first 3 quarter's was because Brady was getting rid of the ball within 1 or 2 seconds. As soon as Brady wanted to look deeper down the field the o-line couldn't cope yet again. It needs to be sorted, one hit on Brady and the season could be over.

TaosHum

me89 wrote: »

The reason they didn't get much pressure in the first 3 quarter's was because Brady was getting rid of the ball within 1 or 2 seconds. As soon as Brady wanted to look deeper down the field the o-line couldn't cope yet again. It needs to be sorted, one hit on Brady and the season could be over.

True, Brady wasn't even taking 2 seconds on most throws, but with the Dolphins only sending four rushers meant he had clear throwing lanes and no press coverage on receivers.

Miami simply had to send more men in order to pressure him. Even when Brady took more than 2 seconds, when Miami rushed 4 they were not getting to him.

Son Of A Vidic

me89 wrote: »

The reason they didn't get much pressure in the first 3 quarter's was because Brady was getting rid of the ball within 1 or 2 seconds. As soon as Brady wanted to look deeper down the field the o-line couldn't cope yet again. It needs to be sorted, one hit on Brady and the season could be over.

Brady has always been one of the, if not the quickest releaser of the ball in the league. On Sunday the team was filled with slot WR's, we had nobody out wide to stretch the field and that was the problem. We presented a very narrow field, with no effective wide out options like Dobson or Thompkins to keep the defense honest. Brady had no real deep options to go for. The fact that we played a season record 55 passing plays clearly tells me the O line did it's job sufficiency. The O line has played inconsistently all season and Sunday as no worse than previous performances imo.

Statistically it was one of the O lines better games in recent weeks with only 1 sack and 7 hits/pressures allowed. We have had multiple games this season where Brady has been sacked 4 times and hit/pressured 12-13 times in a game. As Taosum pointed out earlier, even with Solder gone off, Mankins did a pretty solid job at LT. So I can't see how the O line was an issue on Sunday. My biggest issue was the over reliance on the passing game. Playing only 22 rushing plays really was nonsensical. Then throw in some very poor defensive play and they are my reasons for the loss on Sunday.

Hazys

Its a bit crazy all the criticism Gronk gets in the offseason when he's just a young guy having fun and seems like a generally nice fun loving dude.

An underrated aspect of his character which doesn't get any publicity is the amount of charity work he does: http://instagram.com/p/iCFcg1wYP5/