New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

Son Of A Vidic

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Matter of opinion - losing a pro-bowl LT protecting Manning's blind side is hardly unscathed.

Yes that really was such a devastating loss.....

2013 Season Manning sacked 18 times.

2013 season Brady sacked 40 times.


And from the playoff games both have played


Manning 0 sacks/0 hits & pressures

Brady 2 sacks/13 hits & pressure

Christ I'd say Brady would give his left arm to have such protection.

osl

In fairness Manning has been the toughest QB to sack in the history of the game (and by a pretty significant margin). That to me is more a reflection of how he plays the position and runs an offence, than any particular protection he has gotten over the years

TO.

osl wrote: »

In fairness Manning has been the toughest QB to sack in the history of the game (and by a pretty significant margin). That to me is more a reflection of how he plays the position and runs an offence, than any particular protection he has gotten over the years

That is true to some extent. Manning and Brady are the best in the business of getting rid of the ball quickly. One thing Manning has always been better with is getting rid of the ball when nothing is open, Brady at times has a habit of hanging on to it too long. But getting rid of it quickly is not always the best thing to do when you look at the difference between Int between the 2 of them it also adds to why Manning has taken less sacks. Based on the regular season Manning has had 219 Ints and Brady only 134. So I wouldn't go as far as to say its completely down to how he plays. To add to that even with the Colts he had a fairly decent offensive line.

MilanPan!c

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/news/in-defense-of-boston-sports-fans?src=soc_fcbks

Son Of A Vidic

osl wrote: »

In fairness Manning has been the toughest QB to sack in the history of the game (and by a pretty significant margin). That to me is more a reflection of how he plays the position and runs an offence, than any particular protection he has gotten over the years

As the stats make evidently very clear, the Pats O line is relatively shyte in comparison to the Broncos O line for protecting their QB. Manning could light up a fag and down a beer, he's had so much protection in the pocket.

osl

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

As the stats make evidently very clear, the Pats O line is relatively shyte in comparison to the Broncos O line for protecting their QB. Manning could light up a fag and down a beer, he's had so much protection in the pocket.

Don't disagree that he's gotten better protection. Just that those stats don't take into account that in general you can expect Manning to be sacked significantly less in a season than Brady.

Manning has averaged 18 sacks a season for his career. Brady 29 sacks a season. Can't possibly be all down to protection. How they approach playing the position makes up for some of the disparity in the sacks from this year.

Son Of A Vidic

osl wrote: »

Manning has averaged 18 sacks a season for his career. Brady 29 sacks a season. Can't possibly be all down to protection. How they approach playing the position makes up for some of the disparity in the sacks from this year.

Brady is the calmest pocket QB in the league, his confidence in his accuracy means he'll always look for even the smallest window. He also has no fear in taking the sack/hit. So naturally enough he'll take more sacks. Peyton is more inclined to start galloping and go for a desperation throw, hence his much higher Int rate. According to my calculations Brady has averaged 28 sacks a season. The career average is a 10 sack difference every year between both.

So ignoring 10 of this years sacks on Brady, he is still 12 sacks worse off than the normal yearly variation. Looking at the recent Divisional games, Brady had 2 sacks and 13 pressures and hits. Manning had O, he wasn't bothered all night. He had no sidesteps or escapes to make, his O line gave him excellent protection. Their playing style always has influenced their total sacks and having factored that in. Bradys 12 sacks represents a 66% variation from the norm. Or in a sentence - pretty crap O line play.

TO.

osl wrote: »

Don't disagree that he's gotten better protection. Just that those stats don't take into account that in general you can expect Manning to be sacked significantly less in a season than Brady.

Manning has averaged 18 sacks a season for his career. Brady 29 sacks a season. Can't possibly be all down to protection. How they approach playing the position makes up for some of the disparity in the sacks from this year.

I will post in what I wrote above as it seems you missed it:

Manning and Brady are the best in the business of getting rid of the ball quickly. One thing Manning has always been better with is getting rid of the ball when nothing is open, Brady at times has a habit of hanging on to it too long. But getting rid of it quickly is not always the best thing to do when you look at the difference between Int between the 2 of them it also adds to why Manning has taken less sacks. Based on the regular season Manning has had 219 Ints and Brady only 134. So I wouldn't go as far as to say its completely down to how he plays. To add to that even with the Colts he had a fairly decent offensive line.

osl

TO. wrote: »

I will post in what I wrote above as it seems you missed it:

I saw it of course. You were making my point regarding the difference in how they approach the position. I don't disagree. Even getting rid of the ball quicker though he has a better completion percentage and average than Brady, and a better TD%. That obviously comes at a cost with his corresponding higher interception%

TO.

osl wrote: »

I saw it of course. You were making my point regarding the difference in how they approach the position. I don't disagree. Even getting rid of the ball quicker though he has a better completion percentage and average than Brady, and a better TD%. That obviously comes at a cost with his corresponding higher interception%

As a Pats fan I love Tom Brady as a football fan and someone who is part of the game I love both of them for what they have done for the game but you are making Manning out to be something he isn't. There are so many variables you can throw behind either argument but Manning and Brady have had luxuries at times and I guarantee you if you throw both of them on a sub par team with a sh1t Offensive line and average at best WR and RB both of them would have similar numbers. And stats aren't always the true reflection on the difference between 2 players in the same position and that includes efficiency.

osl

TO. wrote: »

As a Pats fan I love Tom Brady as a football fan and someone who is part of the game I love both of them for what they have done for the game but you are making Manning out to be something he isn't. There are so many variables you can throw behind either argument but Manning and Brady have had luxuries at times and I guarantee you if you throw both of them on a sub par team with a sh1t Offensive line and average at best WR and RB both of them would have similar numbers. And stats aren't always the true reflection on the difference between 2 players in the same position and that includes efficiency.

I'm not making anyone out to be anything other than they are. The facts are there. I agreed with you re your point on their style of play. Anyway lets leave it there. Great weekend ahead. Can't imagine 2 better matchups

Son Of A Vidic

osl wrote: »

I saw it of course. You were making my point regarding the difference in how they approach the position. I don't disagree. Even getting rid of the ball quicker though he has a better completion percentage and average than Brady, and a better TD%. That obviously comes at a cost with his corresponding higher interception%

Well he has played 47 games more than Brady, which is nearly 3 seasons after all. So why wouldn't he have more TD's for christ's sake. But what's more important, not throwing the Int and keeping possession or going for the glory pass and turning it over?

Hazys

:pac:

osl

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Well he has played 47 games more than Brady, which is nearly 3 seasons after all. So why wouldn't he have more TD's for christ's sake. But what's more important, not throwing the Int and keeping possession or going for the glory pass and turning it over?

TD%

Son Of A Vidic

osl wrote: »

TD%

Lets wait until he makes up those 47 games or nearly 3 season deficit, before making a final judgement on such stats. Not that he's too bothered I suppose, with his 3 rings and 18 playoff wins.

dh1985

osl wrote: »

I'm not making anyone out to be anything other than they are. The facts are there. I agreed with you re your point on their style of play. Anyway lets leave it there. Great weekend ahead. Can't imagine 2 better matchups

I think you got the last line spot on. 4 best teams left and hopefully three great games whoevers involved

me89

I see Marquice Cole has signed for the Broncos, more mind games.

Gweedling

We're guaranteed a cracking night of football come Sunday, I'll be heading to the woolshed for the night, anyone else up for a little boardsie meetup? would be nice to put faces to names over a few beers

Son Of A Vidic

me89 wrote: »

I see Marquice Cole has signed for the Broncos, more mind games.

At this rate they might as well sign our whole roster :pac:. Cole has been one of the worst defenders in the league. So it's an obvious attempt to try and pick up intel on our improving secondary.

Son Of A Vidic

Gweedling wrote: »

We're guaranteed a cracking night of football come Sunday, I'll be heading to the woolshed for the night, anyone else up for a little boardsie meetup? would be nice to put faces to names over a few beers

Apart from our boardsie brethren based in Boston, I'm probably the furthest away from the Woolshed here. I'd prefer hooking up for a mid-season game with nothing at stake, when I could relax more. But with an AFC title on the line, in a packed Woolshed, this would be me......

Even if I'm watching a Pats game alone yes I'm a Ramsey.

kryogen

Me too

And proud of it

TO.

Me also.

spiralism

me89 wrote: »

I see Marquice Cole has signed for the Broncos, more mind games.

Needed to fill Harris's roster spot. Gameday scratch i would figure, he's last on the depth chart behind Jammer who was atrocious last week. Expect to see Tony Carter and Champ Bailey getting Harris's snaps.

Son Of A Vidic

kryogen wrote: »

Me too

And proud of it

So basically if myself and yourself went to watch the game in the Woolshed. We'd probably end up wrecking the place during the game.:D

j8wk2feszrnpao

Looking forward to the two games at the weekend. That NFC match is going to be such a physical game.

I'm sure that we'll have a feeling that we are good enough to go to Mile High and get the win, but that it's a tough ask given our injury situation.

I'd a re-look at the Pats and Broncos games at the weekend.

The Broncos were a lot more impressive than I first thought. A few dropped passes were the difference from this been a big blowout before SD's fight back.
Payton played really well (although in the 4th quarter he appeared to change calls too often and should have gone to the running game - sticking with the passing game left time on the clock).
Their OL protected Payton very well, and did a good job for their running game (Moreno and Ball are a good combo).

The Pats had a game-plan to run the ball, and they stuck to it. The Colts defense up front was poor; we ran the ball more than 40 times, and they still couldn't adapt to stop it.
Apart from Edelman (who continues to excel), and the 3 catches by Danny, the passing game wasn't really effective. With all that running, we never really cut them open on a continuous basis with the passes we did attempt (Brady completion just over 50%).

Looking at this weekends game.
No Gronk, Hernandez, Dobson, Boyce, and Thompkins picked up an injury on just his third target in the game.
Denver have a decent secondary, and I'm not sure that we'll have the ability to go long when required without the deep threat players been available.
We could see the Pats go to the running game again, but the Broncos aren't weak there, so it's unlikely to be as beneficial.

This is a huge game for Manning, he really needs the win.
There's no doubt that he's an instant HOF.
But in the Brady v Manning debate/discussion/rant, Manning cannot fall to another Brady team.
The record between the two isn't even close, and another loss to Tom would hurt his legacy.

The game isn't just between the two QB's, but that'll be the headline the next day.
Looking at the roster that both teams have, the edge is definitely with the Broncos.
Still, we'll go into the game with an expectation (with Tom and Bill we always a have a chance) that it'll be a close game that the Pats can edge, like most games this year

TO.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

So basically if myself and yourself went to watch the game in the Woolshed. We'd probably end up wrecking the place during the game.:D

Imagine if you two came to Foxboro for a game. Imagine the headline. 3 Paddys kicked out of Gillette for wrecking the place.

Vanolder

Dobson practiced today... Hopefully he is good to go as he offers some form of outside threat.

Son Of A Vidic

TO. wrote: »

Imagine if you two came to Foxboro for a game. Imagine the headline. 3 Paddys kicked out of Gillette for wrecking the place.

Then to cap it all off, myself and yourself will probably kick off over tackling techniques, good tackles, bad tackles and the colour of the sky. The BPD will probably stop the paddywagon and kick us all out.


Something we need to seriously look into next season......


Getting over to a game that is, not wrecking the place.:D

Son Of A Vidic

Vanolder wrote: »

Dobson practiced today... Hopefully he is good to go as he offers some form of outside threat.

I only heard during the week that the injury that's been bugging him is a stress fracture. Which is not a good one because it usually requires 6 weeks of complete rest (not stressing it) to recover. Fingers crossed he'll be ready to go.

Jolly Red Giant

Broncos have signed former Pats CB Marquice Cole to replace Chris Harris who has been placed on IR.