New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

Son Of A Vidic

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

Just rewatched the 4th and 2 game. Ugh, made myself angry all over again

I take it you're talking about the 2009 Pats Vs Colts game, when Faulk was stopped short of a First Down by the colts Safety Melvin Bullitt? We then couldn't play out the clock and PM then went onto win it :mad:.

This should cheer you up, how about some of the Patriots girls during their recent calendar shoot.




'Blitzing' that offensive line or 'sacking' their QB, would make anyone feel instantly better.

eagle eye

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I take it you're talking about the 2009 Pats Vs Colts game, when Faulk was stopped short of a First Down by the colts Safety Melvin Bullitt? We then couldn't play out the clock and PM then went onto win it :mad:.

Yeah he was stopped in the eyes of the officials. What sickened me was I was certain he got the first down.

Masked Man

I miss the Belichick that had the balls to just go for ****. It seems that kind've disappeared the last few seasons. Too bad the media beat him senseless after things like the 4th and 2, which iirc was actually a good decision.

eagle eye

Masked Man wrote: »

I miss the Belichick that had the balls to just go for ****. It seems that kind've disappeared the last few seasons. Too bad the media beat him senseless after things like the 4th and 2, which iirc was actually a good decision.

What are you on about? He went for it on 4th and 4 last season against the Chargers when Mesko was injured on a play and the year before on 4th and 1. I remember those two because we failed to convert. He has done it a few times since that game though.

Belichick has balls of steel and that will never change.

Masked Man

I'm almost certain there were a couple of times last season where I was surprised at a couple of his calls. I'll have to go googling but I think the Ravens playoff game. Hope I'm wrong.

eagle eye

Masked Man wrote: »

I'm almost certain there were a couple of times last season where I was surprised at a couple of his calls. I'll have to go googling but I think the Ravens playoff game. Hope I'm wrong.

I can guarantee you anytime he doesn't go for it its because its a bad move to go for it. All his decisions are ruthless and from the mind of a genius.

darragh16

Masked Man wrote: »

I'm almost certain there were a couple of times last season where I was surprised at a couple of his calls. I'll have to go googling but I think the Ravens playoff game. Hope I'm wrong.

Thats what Belichick is all about though!

Masked Man

4th and 1 in the middle of the 3rd of the Ravens game. We were up 13-10 and BB goes for another FG.

Maybe it just sticks in my memory cause of how frustrating that entire game was but I definitely remember wondering where BB's balls had gone. We were moving the ball pretty well and i thought it was kind've stupid to run the ball on 3rd and 2 and then just go for the FG when that didn't work.

eagle eye

Masked Man wrote: »

4th and 1 in the middle of the 3rd of the Ravens game. We were up 13-10 and BB goes for another FG.

Maybe it just sticks in my memory cause of how frustrating that entire game was but I definitely remember wondering where BB's balls had gone. We were moving the ball pretty well and i thought it was kind've stupid to run the ball on 3rd and 2 and then just go for the FG when that didn't work.

This is the Ravens D you are talking about, they don't give up much. Its probably mathematically so one-sided in favour of the way Belichick played it out against that D. I don't have the figures at hand but I'd be quite certain that it was the right move.

davyjose

eagle eye wrote: »

This is the Ravens D you are talking about, they don't give up much. Its probably mathematically so one-sided in favour of the way Belichick played it out against that D. I don't have the figures at hand but I'd be quite certain that it was the right move.

Yeah, he was against a brutal Colts Defense and a good offense. Better to try and test the D, than Manning from 70 yards with time on the clock. It was a good call at the time, and I'm surprised more teams don't go for it on 4th more often. Waste of a down IMO.

Son Of A Vidic

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah he was stopped in the eyes of the officials. What sickened me was I was certain he got the first down.

Oh he got first down alright, it was a gutsy play and the right play to go for. Game over if the down had of been given.

eagle eye wrote: »

This is the Ravens D you are talking about, they don't give up much....

And amen to that.

Masked Man

eagle eye wrote: »

This is the Ravens D you are talking about, they don't give up much. Its probably mathematically so one-sided in favour of the way Belichick played it out against that D. I don't have the figures at hand but I'd be quite certain that it was the right move.

Well I don't want get into an argument too much over one specific play but,

Using the 4th down calculator here (this is league averages):




Game Center here if you want to check my numbers.

Obviously maths aren't the be all and end all of it and Ernie Adams is probably a better resource than a site that uses league averages but it's at the very least a debatable call.


And yes it is the Ravens D, but it's also our offence which is obviously above the league average as well. Here's some posts from the same page as the play:

Paully D wrote: »

The defense shouldn't have even bothered turning up for that series. Pathetic.

mikemac1 wrote: »

Where's our run defense???

Unacceptable

And Harbaugh will kill Ellerbe for that blatant facemask.

eagle eye wrote: »

LAWFiRM Baby!!!!

Pollard got GRONKED! on that drive but the key play was the 3rd and 8 to Welker, such precision from Brady, and such awareness from Welker to be just over the line. Get in!!!!!

spiralism wrote: »

Ravens aren't going to be able to win this from behind imo. To have had a chance at all they needed to get ahead early and put the Pats in a hole like the Jets game last year

eagle eye wrote: »

Its just so disappointing that the offense finally does its job and then the defense disappears. They had done so well up to then but that looked scarily like the regular season D right there.

mikemac1 wrote: »

Well there you go

Put pressure on Brady or he'll slice you up

eagle eye wrote: »

They have already establshed the run and if you go after Brady you are leaving somebody open and taking a big chance.

spiralism wrote: »

Taking a knee, jaysus thats surprising. TD, start of 2nd half and TD would end the game after all

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

Law firm doing some job tonight...

Ravens are still with this though.....if they are within a score with 5 minutes left, they have a chance....

poldebruin wrote: »

just caught up with the live game on Sky plus, so safe to come onto the forum! The difference in the game so far IMO is that the Patriots have been so successful running the ball, that has surprised me, I thought it would be tough sledding against the Ravens front 7.

The Ravens have done a reasonable job against Brady and the two TEs

malachyscott wrote: »

Long drive from the pats but only get 3 in the end. Lets see if the Ravens wideouts can get open deep again

We were moving the ball well and we coulda put 10 points between us.

I love Belichick as much as the next guy but he's not perfect.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Oh he got first down alright, it was a gutsy play and the right play to go for. Game over if the down had of been given.

And the reason we couldn't challenge is because Belichick ****ed up and wasted all our timeouts. Again he's not perfect.

Son Of A Vidic

July the 16th gets closer and so does the deadline for a Wes Welker franchise extension. I can't see anything happening and looking at the age issue, I also can't see him being tagged for the 2013 season. Because that would cost the Pats $11.4million. The Edelman contract is up in 2012, so he might be getting more work in the slot this season. The results of which could determine his long term future as a Pat. There is also the talented young draftee Jeremy Ebert waiting in the wings. So it's going to be very interesting to see how it all plays out over the coming season.

JaMarcus Hustle

Few tidbits about the Pats here from the FO Almanac 2012.

The Pats gave up 37.5 yards per drive, the worst figure of any team in FO’s drive stats ever, going back to 1997.

They did however have the best “Points Prevented Per Drive” number ever as well. That means the 2011 Pats were the most extreme example of “Bend Don’t Break” in the last 15 years.

Since 1993, the results of doubling up on defenders in the first round have been consistently positive. Twelve of the fifteen teams showed immediate improvement and many times it was substantial.

Rob Gronkowski had “easily the greatest season of any tight end in FO’s DVOA era, and probably in history”.

Patriots targetted running backs on a league-low 9.5 percent of passes, they had been at 17 percent or above in every other season tracked by FO.

The Pats have only used the running back screen a dozen times in each of the past two seasons, though when used it was good for 10 yards on average.

The Pats had the only defense whose opponents threw more passes to number two receivers  (21.2 percent) than number one receivers (20.7 percent).

Only 13 percent of passes against the Pats were to tight ends, every other team was at 18 percent or higher. Because why throw to a tight end when it’s pretty much an auto-completion to a wide receiver?

Son Of A Vidic

No surprise that the Welker deadline has come and gone with no further developments. But Welker has $9.5 million reasons to be happy playing under the franchise in 2012. The Patriot way will always put the team first before any one individual and rightly so. Welker is not the first player to learn this fact during negotiations and he won't be the last. I have a feeling it could be his last season as a Patriot.

I can't see them paying nearly $12 million to put another franchise tag on him again for the 2013 season. Especially when we got the likes Julian Edelman and Jeremy Ebert who have very similar skill sets. They also have the benefit of age being on their side. Then we have the excellent Hernandez, who has done well in the slot when utilised there at times. So come what may, the components are in place.

eagle eye

And all the rookies are signed up.:)

In other news its believed we still have $8 million in cap space which is ridiculous in a brilliant kind of way.

The New England Patriots have their final 2012 draft pick signed, sealed and delivered. ESPN’s Adam Schefter reports New England signed first-round pick and linebacker Dont'a Hightower to a four-year contract on Wednesday.

Earlier, we highlighted Hightower and quarterback Ryan Tannehill of the Miami Dolphins as the final first-round picks in the AFC East yet to sign. Hightower will report Thursday on time when rookies are due. Tannehill has until next week on July 26.

Hightower has a chance to carve out a big role with the Patriots. New England’s defense was ranked 31st in the NFL and is willing to make changes. Hightower was part of a physically-dominate Alabama group last year in the SEC.

The Patriots hope Hightower and fellow first-round pick Chandler Jones can come in and be immediate contributors.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/44539/patriots-get-lb-dont%E2%80%99a-hightower-signed

Son Of A Vidic

Alfonso Dennard's trial now won't be until December at the earliest, season could even possibly be over by the time it comes around.

New England Patriots rookie Alfonzo Dennard has been granted a delay in his trial on a charge of assaulting an officer.

The former Nebraska star has pleaded not guilty to assaulting an officer in April outside a bar in Lincoln, where he played cornerback for Nebraska.

Dennard's lawyer, Terry Dougherty, said Wednesday that a judge granted a continuance Dougherty sought because of his heavy trial schedule. Dougherty also says he needs more time to prepare Dennard's defense against the felony assault charge and two related misdemeanors.

Dougherty says the trial has been delayed at least until December, but a specific date hasn't been set.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/48227425/

Really rooting for this kid, a draft steal for us and reported to have looked quite impressive during OTA's and mini-camp. Just what the secondary needs.

Son Of A Vidic

No surprise to see that ESPN have snapped up Matt Light....

In an ESPN release announcing the hire, Light had a comment that displayed his usual sense of humor.

“I’m really looking forward to joining the ESPN family and getting a chance to see the game from a different side. I’m obviously depending heavily on my rugged good looks and ability to avoid run-on sentences to succeed in this new role.”

Light was always a humorous, witty and intelligent interview in his time as a player and should immediately become an intriguing voice as an analyst. Of course it will be interesting to see if he is willing to criticize his former team, coach and teammates.

Patriots fans will certainly get their fill of former players on TV this fall, with Light joining the ranks of Rodney Harrison (NBC), Tedy Bruschi (ESPN), Willie McGinest (NFL Network), Heath Evans (NFL Network) and others.

He's always came across as a natural in front of the camera, so no doubt he'll take to it like a duck to water.

http://blog.patriots.com/2012/07/19/from-the-hart-light-joins-espn/

Masked Man

frostie500

Masked Man wrote: »

It always amazes me how much stock we put in the drafting of players straight away. This extract shows just how much you can only grade a draft after five years when you have a body of work under their belt at the pro level.

Look at any year and it's amazing how much time changes opinions on players that were once seen as can't miss prospects or reaches. Five years ago Mario Williams going No. 1 was a "disgrace" given that the Texans could have picked Vince Young or Reggie Bush.

JaMarcus Hustle

Gotta feel devastated for Bill O'Brien today. Effectively head coach at a dead program. I hope he relishes a challenge

CoachTO

Another TE Shiancoe signed a 1 year deal

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4725452/pats-agree-with-te-shiancoe

davyjose

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

Gotta feel devastated for Bill O'Brien today. Effectively head coach at a dead program. I hope he relishes a challenge

Could be the making of him. 8 or 9 years from now, if they're back as one of the big boys he'll go down as a hero. Seems to be saying the right things now. Making it an us vs them thing.

davyjose

CoachTO wrote: »

Another TE Shiancoe signed a 1 year deal

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4725452/pats-agree-with-te-shiancoe

I hear they're building a new locker room at foxboro - for all the Tight Ends.

me-skywalker

Looks like its gonna be a tight end to the race for a starter spot.

*gets coat*

Son Of A Vidic

After last year and the Gronk injury, I think Bill wants better cover in the department. Because it did seem a bit sparse once Gronk went down. So the Patriots now have four experienced tight ends on their 90-man roster. With Shiancoe joining Gronkowski, Hernandez and Daniel Fells (who starts training camp on PUP). Hernandez played 70% of the time last season virtually as a receiver, so is he going to move more into that role for the coming season? Jake Ballard obviously won't be figuring in the equation this season and then there is UDFA Tyler Urban. Six will in reality become four after camp, which I think is just about right for cover ect.

Masked Man

I saw a blog the other day which said that with Wes likely to move on after the season it's possible that Hernandez moves over to the WR spot to take his place as a slot receiver. The idea is kinda stuck in my head now so I'm just going to say that all the extra TEs are just to make sure that we can keep the two TE sets next year and have decent cover.

Son Of A Vidic

Masked Man wrote: »

I saw a blog the other day which said that with Wes likely to move on after the season it's possible that Hernandez moves over to the WR spot to take his place as a slot receiver. The idea is kinda stuck in my head now so I'm just going to say that all the extra TEs are just to make sure that we can keep the two TE sets next year and have decent cover.

This would not surprise me at all, Hernandez is just an incredibly versatile player who offers the team so much. He had a fantastic season last season and probably did get enough credit for it. Gronk bringing his performance as a TE into the stratosphere probably didn't help though. But Hernandez is more than a TE, I really hope they move early and sort out a new contract at the end of the season. The thought of Gronk & Ballard lining at TE in 2013 and Hernandez covering the slot, is not a prospect many teams would like to face at all.

At the end of the day why franchise Welker again and spend €11.5 million on him? I much prefer to see that money making up part of a new contract for Hernandez tbh. Better to have a gifted young player committing his future to the Patriots. Than a player winding down his career, who might have a good season or two left at best. I'm sure Wes is well aware of this and can appreciate the good business sense it makes for the team.

Of course I'd love to see Wes stay, providing he takes the hit on his salary demands of course. But if he loves being a Patriot as much as he has always said he does? Then maybe he will but I won't be panicking, because at the end of the day we have Hernandez, Edelman and a talented young rookie in Ebert that can all take on the slot role.

bruschi

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

This would not surprise me at all, Hernandez is just an incredibly versatile player who offers the team so much. He had a fantastic season last season and probably did get enough credit for it. Gronk bringing his performance as a TE into the stratosphere probably didn't help though. But Hernandez is more than a TE, I really hope they move early and sort out a new contract at the end of the season. The thought of Gronk & Ballard lining at TE in 2013 and Hernandez covering the slot, is not a prospect many teams would like to face at all.

At the end of the day why franchise Welker again and spend €11.5 million on him? I much prefer to see that money making up part of a new contract for Hernandez tbh. Better to have a gifted young player committing his future to the Patriots. Than a player winding down his career, who might have a good season or two left at best. I'm sure Wes is well aware of this and can appreciate the good business sense it makes for the team.

Of course I'd love to see Wes stay, providing he takes the hit on his salary demands of course. But if he loves being a Patriot as much as he has always said he does? Then maybe he will but I won't be panicking, because at the end of the day we have Hernandez, Edelman and a talented young rookie in Ebert that can all take on the slot role.

pretty much how I'd feel on the whole thing too. Would like to see Welker stay, but its not a given, and it would have to work money wise. I hadnt realised his agent is the same one who represents Hernandez too, not sure what relevance that might have on anything, but it might well do.

CoachTO

This is what I wrote on the other thread:

Hernandez will be used more like a WR than a TE and Gronk + 2 of the other TE will be used as actually TE. Gronk is a good run blocker but guys like Shiancoe and Fells are perfect run blockers. Fells and Shiancoe are only on 1 year contracts and Ballard is out for the season anyways.

So realistically we only have Gronk, Hernandez, Fells and Shiancoe. Fells will be more run blocker. Shiancoe will back up Gronk as a dual threat and Hernandez will be played in slot or in some made position where his size speed and hands can be used.

Also as Corveous mentioned on the Pats thread when we lost Gronk we had no real cover last year and Fells and Shiancoe will be insurance just in case.

This is how I see it going.