New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

eagle eye

Well you won't find me wishing the Broncos good luck in the Superbowl. I think me and most of my Patriots friends on both sides of the pond see things a little differently to on here. I would hate to see Peyton Manning win another ring and its all down to how well he gets treated by the media and how badly TB gets treated by the same clowns.

I don't hate the Broncos or the Colts just don't like to see all the praise Manning gets. Some of the MVP awards he has picked up grate at me because there were other players more deserving, Brees should have gotten both of his last two not including this year which he certainly deserves. His Superbowl MVP award is the most undeserving one ever in the history of the big game. He was well under 300 yards in that game with 1td, 1 sack and 1 fumble.

I don't disagree that he is probably the best regular season QB in history but he has one ring and he did his best to not get it against the Bears. I think his QB rating in that game was around 60. That award should have went to Rhodes or Mathis.

I have other reasons for wanting the Seahawks to win because Pete Carroll is one of my favourite people in the NFL. He is a former Patriots coach and the only other head coach ever hired by Bob Kraft. There is also Golden Tate who was a star at Notre Dame. I love Sherman too and Marshawn who clearly has turned his life around. The fact they have never won a Superbowl just tops it off nicely.

Anyways rant over.:D

adrian522

That's one bitter post, well done.

Mannings QB rating in that game was 81.8., so closer to 100 than to 60.

He also had 247 yards passing, while not spectacular it was decent enough. In other words he had a good game, so his MVP is hardly "The most undeserving one ever in the history of the big game"

eagle eye

adrian522 wrote: »

That's one bitter post, well done.

Mannings QB rating in that game was 81.8., so closer to 100 than to 60.

He also had 247 yards passing, while not spectacular it was decent enough. In other words he had a good game, so his MVP is hardly "The most undeserving one ever in the history of the big game"

Thats weird because I went onto ESPN when I read your post and it says this so I checked NFL.com and it gives what you say but at the time I remember it well and it was what ESPN has because I couldn't believe he got the MVP award. Maybe they changed something afterwards that upped his stats?

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=270204003

BKWDR

I hope the Broncos go on and win, the season that Manning has had, breaking the records and bossing pretty much every game this season, he deserves it.
His age, what he's come back from!?

As far as media attention goes, TB gets his fair share of love-ins because so much is expected of him. But Manning with the injuries, his age, his family...the spotlight is bound to stick on him!

Vanolder

I'm firmly behind the hawks, I hope Sherman is up in Manning's or Thomas' face after the game.

Adamcp898

Vanolder wrote: »

I'm firmly behind the hawks, I hope Sherman is up in Manning's or Thomas' face after the game.

Not to mention if he wins MVP......

''This is what happens when you say I can't go to Disney World....''

osl

eagle eye wrote: »

Thats weird because I went onto ESPN when I read your post and it says this so I checked NFL.com and it gives what you say but at the time I remember it well and it was what ESPN has because I couldn't believe he got the MVP award. Maybe they changed something afterwards that upped his stats?

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=270204003

Really?? That's insane tbf. And those stats you link on espn correspond to an 81 rating not a 60 rating anyway. Its a screw up on their calculation.

On your point regarding the praise and media attention. Manning is the face of the NFL and has been for years. He gets more praise, but he also receives more flak. Brady is somewhat infallible. When Manning loses in the playoffs it brings up all the predictable talk of him being a bottler, isn't clutch etc. Brady doesn't have to deal with this. Never mind that he has a worse QBR in the playoffs than Manning, and from starting 10-0 in the playoffs, Brady has gone 8-8 since. Manning is 8-6 over that same period and has won a super bowl, yet is still considered by many to be a bottler in important games, whereas Brady never gets that thrown his way.

Molly

Isn't the QBR on ESPN the 'new shiny better than the other one' that maxes out at 100?

Answering my own question. Yes it is. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6833215/explaining-statistics-total-quarterback-rating

TO.

osl wrote: »

Never mind that he has a worse QBR in the playoffs than Manning, and from starting 10-0 in the playoffs, Brady has gone 8-8 since. Manning is 8-6 over that same period and has won a super bowl, yet is still considered by many to be a bottler in important games, whereas Brady never gets that thrown his way.

Well maybe it has something to do with Brady being in 5 Bowls out of those 18 games and winning 3 of them. Hard to tag a guy who has done that as a bottler. Its easier for the same media that puts Manning on a pedestal to criticise him at the same time. Just how they work. Manning and Brady don't care what the media think either way. Always baffling why people can't accept that Brady and Manning are the 2 best QBs in the last decade and trying to compare them is pointless as there is solid arguments for either side of the coin.

Son Of A Vidic

Personally, I put Tom and Peyton on a different QB planet and as I said in one of the threads, there are true royalty. Two great competitors and probably the greatest QB rivalry in NFL history that we'll ever see. Peyton has always been gushing in his admiration for Tom and Tom likewise. Like Brady, Peyton is a real student of the game, loves the game and admires greatness. He said this recently about Bill..

“Coach Belichick is the best coach that I’ve ever competed against and I think it’s safe to say he’ll go down as the greatest NFL coach of all time,”

http://www.patriots.com/news/blog/article-1/Manning-lauds-Belichick-Brady/6c3df1b5-3f9b-4dcd-b1de-4f93a2a679a3


When he made his comeback, Peyton spoke about the calls of support he got from Tom after his neck surgeries. How Tom told him how he coped after his knee injury in 2008 and gave him strategies. So for me it's great to see that Peyton and Tom are very good friends off the field. And that's pretty rare amongst great rivals in any sport. 10 years ago I'd probably wouldn't have supported Peyton winning anything. But maybe as I've gotten older I've come to really appreciate the greatness of both and the privilege it has been to have had both in the league all these years.

On a human level, Peyton is a regular looking Joe, a funny guy, a Mr. Popularity who was a first round draft pick and rated a No. 1 star from the start. Tom is the guy with the male model looks, quieter than Peyton and overflowing with intensity. A guy who was an after thought in the draft when he was the 199th pick. The guy who has since showed the rest of the NFL, the fúck up they made by passing him over. So their public personas are completely different, but again that's the image and perception the media create.

Today, I think the media idolise them both and rightly so. It was hard earned and is well deserved on their part imo. In fact, the only issue I have with media coverage is how quickly they have elevated so many young QB's in the league so quickly. If anything I find it insulting to Tom and Peyton, two guys who have consistently done it for so long. But that's what the media often does, spew crap and hype. So I tend to pass no heed of most of it at this stage.

Now looking at stats, what's the point even discussing them? Tom has nothing to prove to anyone. Peyton has nothing to prove to anyone? The first thing Peyton said in the press conference after breaking the passing record, was Tom would go out next year and break it again. I thought it was a classy statement and a nod to Tom. Whether he does or doesn't isn't the point, the point is these two greats have broken, shared and surpassed records so many times, there is absolutely no point in even talking about it. Because they have simply nothing to prove to anyone anymore.

To sum up, apart from Tom, there's is no other QB I like to see win a Super Bowl more than Peyton.

Vanolder

What do I do with my sundays now!!?? Yeah, there's soccer and hurling season is starting up but I fear neither will give me the highs (an lows) of this season.

Vanolder

Actually, what decent football documentaries do you guys recommend?

adrian522

Undefeated is good.

Other than that the Football life series and the america's game episodes. And also any of the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary's are worth a watch.

Also the old series of Hard Knocks if you haven't seen them yet.

Son Of A Vidic

Pepper Johnson is leaving the Pats.....

“Today marks a new day for me. Today is a new day full of promise and hope. It is also a day to reflect, as I embark upon a new journey. Today is the first day in 13 years that I am not a part of the New England Patriots, although I will always be a Patriot in my heart. Today also marks the first day in 26 years that I am not working in some capacity with one of greatest head coaches of all time, as well as my friend, Bill Belichick.

“Football is my life. From putting my body on the line, my hand in the dirt, to teaching others to do the same, this will continue for me. ... I have big dreams and goals and they all involve football. So as I soak in this new day and embark on wherever my new path takes me, I shall embrace this new chapter in my life.

“I thank the entire New England Patriot organization for the last 13 years of my life. I am proud of all the things we have accomplished. The Kraft family is one of a kind and I will always be grateful to them and hold them in the highest regard. Bill Belichick and I have been working together in some capacity for 26 years and I am who I am because of it. To have five Super Bowl rings (two as a player, three as a coach) and all of them with Bill has been a blessing. I could never have asked for a better coach/boss/friend in those 26 years. Thanks for always supporting me and I know Bill will continue to support me no matter what.

“Thank you New England Patriot fans; I will miss you the most.”

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4758021/pepper-johnson-on-leaving-pats

Pepper has been a great servant to the organisation. But I can't help but feel we've lacked a certain edge on the defensive side of the ball. It will be very intriguing now to see who steps in.

Hazys

Its always been reported that Johnson wanted the DC job and he was pissed he never got the job and probably the only reason he stayed with the Pats as a position coach was because of his friendship with BB.

I think he realizes he is never going to get his shot at the DC position at NE so he needs to move on to further his career.

I wish him the best.

TO.

Great servant to the team over the years but he has actually only really ever been a positional guy as lets face it Bill runs the defense. Even questionable how much say Patricia has as the DC. Plenty of guys out there who can replace him really.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

Well you won't find me wishing the Broncos good luck in the Superbowl. I think me and most of my Patriots friends on both sides of the pond see things a little differently to on here. I would hate to see Peyton Manning win another ring and its all down to how well he gets treated by the media and how badly TB gets treated by the same clowns.

I don't hate the Broncos or the Colts just don't like to see all the praise Manning gets. Some of the MVP awards he has picked up grate at me because there were other players more deserving, Brees should have gotten both of his last two not including this year which he certainly deserves. His Superbowl MVP award is the most undeserving one ever in the history of the big game. He was well under 300 yards in that game with 1td, 1 sack and 1 fumble.

I don't disagree that he is probably the best regular season QB in history but he has one ring and he did his best to not get it against the Bears. I think his QB rating in that game was around 60. That award should have went to Rhodes or Mathis.

I have other reasons for wanting the Seahawks to win because Pete Carroll is one of my favourite people in the NFL. He is a former Patriots coach and the only other head coach ever hired by Bob Kraft. There is also Golden Tate who was a star at Notre Dame. I love Sherman too and Marshawn who clearly has turned his life around. The fact they have never won a Superbowl just tops it off nicely.

Anyways rant over.:D

Mate Brady in no way gets treated bad by the media the guys infallible most people would agree that he's possibly the greatest qb to ever play the game

Link me a few articles where people actually trash Brady

Son Of A Vidic

Hazys wrote: »

Its always been reported that Johnson wanted the DC job and he was pissed he never got the job and probably the only reason he stayed with the Pats as a position coach was because of his friendship with BB.

A good point which I never considered. Patricia passed him out and it probably never sat well.

TO. wrote: »

Great servant to the team over the years but he has actually only really ever been a positional guy as lets face it Bill runs the defense. Even questionable how much say Patricia has as the DC. Plenty of guys out there who can replace him really.

Considering how weak our defense has become in recent years, I have often wondered did Bill loosen his grip in this area.

Hazys

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Considering how weak our defense has become in recent years, I have often wondered did Bill loosen his grip in this area.

I think some credit is deserved by the defense this season. At the start of the season (which seems so long ago) they won us multiple games and were one of the best defenses in the league. Then they lost:

Wilfork
Mayo
Kelly
Dennard & Talib both never got fully fully healthy again

Son Of A Vidic

Hazys wrote: »

I think some credit is deserved by the defense this season. At the start of the season (which seems so long ago) they won us multiple games and were one of the best defenses in the league. Then they lost:

Wilfork
Mayo
Kelly
Dennard & Talib both never got fully fully healthy again

My comment earlier was really directed at a defensive trend in recent years. Of course the defense deserve a lot of credit for some performances this season. Hell they won us a fair few games. We started the season with a swagger and more aggression which was refreshing to see. The injuries were massive but Bill isn't a man to hide behind that. Not putting an ounce of pressure on Manning was very disappointing and demonstrates that we have a way to go yet.

BizzyC

I think this season is a big demonstration at our lack of depth.

With a healthy starting 11 I think we can match up as well as any defence in the league.
The only position I'd say we really need to improve is a proper strong safety.

Once we lose any of those guys though, holes appear. Either it's Arrington covering a receiver on the edge, a lost pass rush or a drop off in our gap management up front.

I think BB does a good job of drafting guys who can make an impact on the starting lineup (Mayo, Collins, McCourty, Wilfork, Jones, Hightower, Dennard) but he doesn't do a great job of drafting quality 2nd string players.

Son Of A Vidic

Confirmed that Talib suffered no serious or structural damage to his knee on Sunday. No shít Sherlock, that was pretty clear to me judging by the amount of time at how he spent standing on the sideline. Dennard goes off injured and then gets back on the field, like he frequently tends to do. Time for Talib to grow a pair imo.

davyjose

Molly wrote: »

Isn't the QBR on ESPN the 'new shiny better than the other one' that maxes out at 100?

Answering my own question. Yes it is. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6833215/explaining-statistics-total-quarterback-rating

That's Total QBR and is not an official NFL measurement. In fact, AFAIK only ESPN know the formula for calculating it.

davyjose

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

Mate Brady in no way gets treated bad by the media the guys infallible most people would agree that he's possibly the greatest qb to ever play the game

Link me a few articles where people actually trash Brady

Phil Simms even said that Brady threw the ball too well when he overthrew Edelman the other night.

Hazys

davyjose wrote: »

Phil Simms even said that Brady threw the ball too well when he overthrew Edelman the other night.

I remember that lol

"Sometimes when you throw it so well, you throw further than you want to"

Hazys

TBH I agree with Eagle Eye to an extent and I give EE credit because he's been honest in posting an opinion which he knows he'll probably get crucified for.

Personally, there's no reason why I shouldn't love Peyton Manning, he's a fantastic QB, one of the greatest of all time who loves the game. Off the field, he seems like a normal guy who even with the fame and commercials seems grounded. But my problem with Manning is not with him or anything he has done but its with the media's sometimes OTT love for Manning that drives me crazy and puts me off Manning which is a shame (there was people in the media who wanted Manning to be considered for MVP the season the Colts went 2-14 and he didn't even play a single down).

While Brady gets a lot of love too of course but I think you'd be naive to believe that there are not decent amount of people in the media and in the NFL who have an irrational hate of all things BB and NE Patriots and they take it out on Brady too. I think the proof is that Brady makes the Top 10 most hated NFL players each year.

Brady and Manning will forever be linked and compared and in each discussion as Brady's biggest fan I will always back Brady as the better QB. I will always argue that Manning got favorable treatment from the media.

I feel if Manning wins only his 2nd Superbowl next week, there will people calling for him to be crowd the greatest of all time hands down, which to me would seem way OTT. I won't begrudge Manning a second Superbowl ring (a younger Hazys would be have been disgusted lol) but I won't be cheering for it...Go Hawks!!

Hazys

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

Mate Brady in no way gets treated bad by the media the guys infallible most people would agree that he's possibly the greatest qb to ever play the game

Link me a few articles where people actually trash Brady

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/eddf45mehh/tom-brady-3/

Its almost a sin for opposing players and fans to come out and say they hate Manning and I don't think i ever seen an opposing player call Manning an a$$hole, while Brady not so much.

TO.

My take on Brady and Manning is this. I love both of them. Do I care one gets better treatment than the other in the media and vice versa. Nope I could care less. Do I care lots of people hate Brady because he plays for the Pats and lets face we are a hated team and fanbase by many, Nope I don't care. Do I care people try argue the difference between players and bring up all sorts of records and stats to try split the two up? Nope could care less. Do I care one gets awarded and the other? Nope I could care less.

As a Pats fan I booed Manning but it doesn't change my love and respect for him. As someone who coaches the game and has studied it inside out for the last 11 years from a player and coaching perspective I have the utmost respect for both of them and don't think you could ever separate either of them based on stats, or awards or games won or bowls won or any of that. They are on a level on their own right now and both deserve the same kind of respect.

Way I see it everyone should form their own opinion and ignore what others tell you about a guy especially the media. Of course the media will play sides and make it a popularity contest.

I also commend anyone like EE who is not afraid to stand behind his opinion to it all. Whether we agree with it or not that is his opinion and like all of us he is entitled to it.

but the pats are the most successful team in the nfl over the last decade thats to be expected to an extent


look at other sports
man u
miami heat
yankees


everybody hates the team on top but iv never seen anyone in the media actually have a go off of brady and if you compare him to the hate the likes of lebron and arod get he gets nothing. he's comparable to alex ferguson to an extent rivals dislike him because he's so successful but they definitely respect the guy.

when sherman went after brady the media crucified him because pretty much everyone agreed you cant do that to tom brady look at what hes done in his career

edit: just to agree with to its nice to see different opinions on the site im not trying to attack you or anything

Neil3030

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

he's comparable to alex ferguson to an extent rivals dislike him because he's so successful but they definitely respect the guy.

Fergie had other reasons to dislike him aside from being successful, tbf. He was also a bully and a very sore loser at times. Brady is a class act in comparison (at least how he conducts himself in public). Likewise, A-Rod has been popped for cheating how many times now?

Brady and James seem on their own for drawing ire purely on the back of their success (though I don't follow NBA too closely, James has only ever appeared very classy when I've seen him).

I even remember talking to a Pats fan a few years ago (around the time he had that knee injury) and he hated Brady; thought Bledsoe should never have been thrown out, and loathed how Brady rehabbed his injury in California with, as he put it, "the broad"