New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

Son Of A Vidic

TaosHum wrote: »

Was there any apart from all the injuries?

Amendola for me. Yes there was a question whether the groin was an issue all season. But that doesn't explain some bad drops and miscommunications he had with Brady. In the AFC title game Brady targeted him once and he dropped the ball. It was a bad drop and that was it for me, I didn't want him signed last year anyway because we have way too many slot sized WR's on our roster. But no doubt we'll keep him and persist once gain with a largely undersized WR corp.

We desperately need a bigger WR and an experienced outside threat. Rookie Dobson fell apart from week 12 with double foot injures and he was clearly not 100% in the title game. That said, he was still more productive than Amendola. Then of course thanks to the murder suspect, we have +7 million in dead money and we'll take at + 2 million hit if we cut Amendola. So our room for manoeuvre is severely limited. The only way to free up money is for several contract renegotiation and the likes of Wilfork and Mankins immediately comes to mind.

TaosHum

bruschi wrote: »

small matter of some lad committing murders!

bedrocks of the coaching staff leaving.

Bradys top target leaving and now in the superbowl.

and not winning the superbowl.


why did you depress me again!!!

To be fair, Hernandez going to jail and Welker leaving occured prior to the season starting.

Not winning the SB I wouldn't call a negitive. Getting to the AFC Championship game considering all the injuries was quite achievement IMO.

bruschi

TaosHum wrote: »

To be fair, Hernandez going to jail and Welker leaving occured prior to the season starting.

Not winning the SB I wouldn't call a negitive. Getting to the AFC Championship game considering all the injuries was quite achievement IMO.

what season did they happen in? or does everything from February to August get wiped out? they were part of 2013, and part of negatives for 2013.

and dont you know the Pats fans are fickle and we only want success? :pac:

but yeah, I think we over achieved really this year. I said very early on in the year that I thought we wouldnt go far, and to be honest, the team exceeded my expectations, so I wasnt half as devastated as usual when we lost the AFC championship game. Obviously disappointed, but not half as much as other years.

I think we are in a good position though. Get the key players back on the field and keep them on it, and add to the roster a bit in pass rush and in WR, and I think we will ahve the bones of a team that will again push for the finish line in February next year.

its something that has been put to BB a bit more this year, in that will he up the supporting cast for Brady who is essentially in his twighlight years, and I hope he does. yes, its all well and good having very long term projects and planning for the future, but we will be rebuilding whenever Brady goes anyway, so I'd like to stockpile us, gamble on it all and go mad for it for the next 3 years. worry about things later. I know that wont happen, Bob Kraft is too savvy for that, but we are never going to have this sort of combination of coach, owner, QB and staff again, and I think we need to make the absolute most of it right now.

TaosHum

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Amendola for me. Yes there was a question whether the groin was an issue all season. But that doesn't explain some bad drops and miscommunications he had with Brady. In the AFC title game Brady targeted him once and he dropped the ball. It was a bad drop and that was it for me, I didn't want him signed last year anyway because we have way too many slot sized WR's on our roster. But no doubt we'll keep him and persist once gain with a largely undersized WR corp.

We desperately need a bigger WR and an experienced outside threat. Rookie Dobson fell apart from week 12 with double foot injures and he was clearly not 100% in the title game. That said, he was still more productive than Amendola. Then of course thanks to the murder suspect, we have +7 million in dead money and we'll take at + 2 million hit if we cut Amendola. So our room for manoeuvre is severely limited. The only way to free up money is for several contract renegotiation and the likes of Wilfork and Mankins immediately comes to mind.

Its difficult to see how Amendola is going to fit into the offense alright. I think Edelman's progression and chemistry with Brady is taking away alot of potential receptions/balls thrown to for him. I think the timing of his injury was crucial. From what I remember, he was doing well at camp and started off week 1 vs Buffalo with over 100 receiving yards. Had he stayed healthy a while longer I think he features more in the offense than he did at the end of it.

I think there are some receivers in FA that could fill the need on the outside. Considering the strength of the Pats locker room, I'd definitely take a punt on Kenny Britt. Still has huge potential and could flourish in the right environment. If, like you said money can be freed up with the re-structuring of contracts, then I'd hotly pursue Eric Decker.

Son Of A Vidic

Some very interesting commentary here from former Bears GM Jerry Angelo....

"When you have a great quarterback, you need to give him as many quality receivers as possible, regardless of where they are aligned on the field. When you look at New England, the strengths of their offense was their line and running backs. When you break down Denver, it was their tight end and receivers.

"I believe, if you don’t have an elite QB, you build your offense the way New England did, from the inside out. Protect the quarterback with a good offensive line and run the ball. A large part of your passing game is going to be based off run action. On the other hand, if you have a quarterback who sets the standard at his position, you built it around him from the outside in, meaning with top-notch receivers.

"This is where New England calculated wrong. Brady is an elite quarterback, and they handcuffed him with talented but unproven receivers. ... My point: New England missed the mark and Denver hit it."

Angelo then explained further.

"New England’s problem is they fell in love with their system. A fatal mistake for successful coaches. I said Bill Belichick did one of his finest coaching jobs this year and I know it. I’m a great admirer and would agree with Bill Cowher when he said that Belichick would go down as the greatest coach in football. But in this case, his thinking was misguided.

"This shows you regardless of how great a coach is, if his philosophy isn’t applicable to the strengths of his personnel, then it’s unsound, not in principal, but in relevance to his personnel. And in football, the labor force starts with CEO of the offense, the quarterback."

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4758273/angelos-view-on-misguided-pats-plan

Personally, I think he's spot on. Brady is top of the pile and he hasn't got the weapons he deserves. Too many years have been wasted finding diamonds in the rough. The clock is ticking for Tom and I think it will be the greatest regret when everyone looks back, that he hadn't got the quality he deserved. My point earlier about our over abundance of slot WR's being an example of this.

I also think he's spot on about Belichick. Yes I think he will go down as the greatest when he retires and yes he did a fantastic job this season. But maybe it has become a habit of building a roster from nothing. Yes we've been dominant and consistent for so many years. But we've come up short in two AFC title games because Brady's options were severely limited.Maybe it's time to treat Brady with the respect he deserves and make him the priority in his last couple of years. Because we'll never see his like again imo.

SK1979

Very interesting read Corvus.

I completely agree with the sentiments too.

I think that Boldin is a free agent again this year? Any chance of the 49ers not signing him back up and him being available relatively cheap? While obviously not a tall guy he gives that physical presence that we seriously lack. Plus, in the play-off runs of the last two seasons (Ravens last year), to me he was his teams best player.

TaosHum

bruschi wrote: »

what season did they happen in? or does everything from February to August get wiped out? they were part of 2013, and part of negatives for 2013.

and dont you know the Pats fans are fickle and we only want success? :pac:

but yeah, I think we over achieved really this year. I said very early on in the year that I thought we wouldnt go far, and to be honest, the team exceeded my expectations, so I wasnt half as devastated as usual when we lost the AFC championship game. Obviously disappointed, but not half as much as other years.

I think we are in a good position though. Get the key players back on the field and keep them on it, and add to the roster a bit in pass rush and in WR, and I think we will ahve the bones of a team that will again push for the finish line in February next year.

its something that has been put to BB a bit more this year, in that will he up the supporting cast for Brady who is essentially in his twighlight years, and I hope he does. yes, its all well and good having very long term projects and planning for the future, but we will be rebuilding whenever Brady goes anyway, so I'd like to stockpile us, gamble on it all and go mad for it for the next 3 years. worry about things later. I know that wont happen, Bob Kraft is too savvy for that, but we are never going to have this sort of combination of coach, owner, QB and staff again, and I think we need to make the absolute most of it right now.

I was talking more so the playing season (pre-season onwards), but I see your point.

I 100% agree though that the Pats need to make the most of what they have now.

Son Of A Vidic

SK1979 wrote: »

I think that Boldin is a free agent again this year? Any chance of the 49ers not signing him back up and him being available relatively cheap? While obviously not a tall guy he gives that physical presence that we seriously lack. Plus, in the play-off runs of the last two seasons (Ravens last year), to me he was his teams best player.

I agree, I actually wanted someone like Boldin last year instead the likes of Amendola. You say he's not tall, but I'll take 6'1" over 5'10" anyway. No he's not a speed demon, but he's powerful in the air and dominates the ball - exactly what we've been missing.

kryogen

I really want a deep threat WR who you can throw it at least once a quarter, as John Madden said about Randy Moss, you throw it to him deep at least once a quarter and you are giving yourself a great shot at either a TD or a huge gain PI call

We need someone to stretch the field, its such a waste of the GOAT to have him working only with slot guys 90% of the time

Son Of A Vidic

kryogen wrote: »

We need someone to stretch the field, its such a waste of the GOAT to have him working only with slot guys 90% of the time

Christ if we can see it, you really hope Belichick will change tack this offseason and sort it.

kryogen

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Christ if we can see it, you really hope Belichick will change tack this offseason and sort it.

Dunno, he seems pretty ingrained in his system.

It has been years of neglect in many ways in terms of having a real weapon to trouble the opponent secondary.

Gronk is obviously huge for us, but him being fit is not guaranteed, and he doesnt have the speed I am talking about. Brady has been getting no younger for a while now, hopefully Thompkins and Dobson develop but one proper deep threat right now wouldnt impact that at all, would be beneficial to the young guys to work with a proper out and out WR

I agree with so much of the article that was posted

Son Of A Vidic

kryogen wrote: »

Dunno, he seems pretty ingrained in his system.

It has been years of neglect in many ways in terms of having a real weapon to trouble the opponent secondary.

Gronk is obviously huge for us, but him being fit is not guaranteed, and he doesnt have the speed I am talking about. Brady has been getting no younger for a while now, hopefully Thompkins and Dobson develop but one proper deep threat right now wouldnt impact that at all, would be beneficial to the young guys to work with a proper out and out WR

I agree with so much of the article that was posted

Ya it's unlikely Bill will see the light, I'm just fecking sick of the obsession with smaller slot WR's. Edelman-Amendola-Boyce-Collie all smaller slots. It would be nice alright if Dobson and Tompkins had the luxury of having an experienced deep threat WR playing alongside them.

SK1979

This might be a bit crazy and completely impossible but could you make a move for tony Gonzalez?

Would he play one more season? Would he come to the pats? Maybe you could entice him with the chance of a Super Bowl? Obviously he'd have to be cheap.

He'd help with redzone targets if nothing else. Them compliment him with a proper decent deep threat (or Boldin!).

Son Of A Vidic

SK1979 wrote: »

This might be a bit crazy and completely impossible but could you make a move for tony Gonzalez?

I really think that he was adamant about retiring this year, still it wouldn't hurt trying. What a coup it would be to have him for a year. I would literally drool If saw the legendary Tony Gonzalez putting on a Pats jersey.

SK1979 wrote: »

Them compliment him with a proper decent deep threat (or Boldin!).

Jaysus what are you trying to do to me dude? Could you imagine Gonzalez and Boldin landed in FA? Tom might as well get his finger measured for his 4th ring.

dh1985

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I really think that he was adamant about retiring this year, still it wouldn't hurt trying. What a coup it would be to have him for a year. I would literally drool If saw the legendary Tony Gonzalez putting on a Pats jersey.



Jaysus what are you trying to do to me dude? Could you imagine Gonzalez and Boldin landed in FA? Tom might as well get his finger measured for his 4th ring.

Wouldnt think the pats would be interested in a receiver in their thirties after the poor efficiency by chad and lloyd. To be fair to dobson and thompkins they were probably more productive than either those players with big reputations. Thats after a very slow start and an injury burdened end of season. Emmanuel sanders is a free agent again this year and pats showed a lot of interest in him last year. Not sure is he much use either though.

TO.

dh1985 wrote: »

Wouldnt think the pats would be interested in a receiver in their thirties after the poor efficiency by chad and lloyd. To be fair to dobson and thompkins they were probably more productive than either those players with big reputations. Thats after a very slow start and an injury burdened end of season. Emmanuel sanders is a free agent again this year and pats showed a lot of interest in him last year. Not sure is he much use either though.

Can't really compare Johnson and Lloyd to Boldin to be fair to Boldin. Boldin has been consistent throughout his career and is a smart player. Where as Johnson's inability to learn playbooks came to light after he left the Bengals and Lloyd's attitude and very inconsistent ways let him down throughout his career. Both Johnson and Lloyd are prime examples of guys who were lets face it wastes of talent.

Im sure Bill and Co would look at Boldin and wont compare him to previous old folk and try to look at the potential work from Boldin. Personally I dont think the Pats will waste the cap space on Boldin even though we should look for game winners.

Son Of A Vidic

dh1985 wrote: »

Wouldnt think the pats would be interested in a receiver in their thirties after the poor efficiency by chad and lloyd. To be fair to dobson and thompkins they were probably more productive than either those players with big reputations. Thats after a very slow start and an injury burdened end of season. Emmanuel sanders is a free agent again this year and pats showed a lot of interest in him last year. Not sure is he much use either though.

Pretty much as TO. said, I would put those two in the same class as Boldin. Boldin is a proven clutch player. Ocho couldn't even run the right routes and 'fall to the ground as soon as he makes a catch' Lloyd, well he ended up playing more as a slot than the outside/deeper threat we hoped for. I can't see us going back in for Sanders, anyway at 5'11" for he hasn't got the size I'd like. Our rookies have great potential and if they can stay healthy next year, then I think they will make a huge contribution. But I'd love to land a bigger Dobson (6'3") sized WR.

eagle eye

TO. wrote: »

Can't really compare Johnson and Lloyd to Boldin to be fair to Boldin. Boldin has been consistent throughout his career and is a smart player. Where as Johnson's inability to learn playbooks came to light after he left the Bengals and Lloyd's attitude and very inconsistent ways let him down throughout his career. Both Johnson and Lloyd are prime examples of guys who were lets face it wastes of talent.

Im sure Bill and Co would look at Boldin and wont compare him to previous old folk and try to look at the potential work from Boldin. Personally I dont think the Pats will waste the cap space on Boldin even though we should look for game winners.

Boldin is a bit unique in that he has shown he is clutch in the playoffs and he might just be the type that Bill would be interested in paying because of that.

Tristram

I think I'm confused about Lloyd's production with the Pats. I thought he did a reasonable job. Am I imagining him being the leading receiver? It must be my old age, dementia setting in.

Son Of A Vidic

Tristram wrote: »

I think I'm confused about Lloyd's production with the Pats. I thought he did a reasonable job. Am I imagining him being the leading receiver? It must be my old age, dementia setting in.

The thing was, he wasn't signed to do a reasonable job. He was signed to be a serious deep threat.While his stats for the season might seem sound and his 74 receptions might seem productive. Brady clearly tried to force feed him the ball when he targeted him 130 times. Lloyd's 56.% reception success rate was by far the worst amongst of all the receiving corp He also ended up playing more across the middle as a slot.

He was signed as a deep/wide threat but early in the 2012 season, he just never showed up for those passes on the field. The other big disappointment was his yards after the catch production. He also became a running joke the way he seem to hit the ground after making a catch. Very often throwing away the yards after the catch. He also seemed to react to traffic that just wasn't there and looked like a player who had lost his nerve in the NFL.

Lloyd was clearly not the player he was supposed to be and I blame McDaniel's for wasting that signing. Once again. Amendola is another one of his ex-players that has disappointed this season. But since McDaniel's seems to have a fetish for going after former WR's, he might be better served going after the likes of Eric Decker, a guy who he drafted in Denver. Because he looks like a guy that would deliver.

bruschi

the rumours about the Pats going for Larry Fitz last year make me sad. I would absolutely cream myself if he was at Foxboro. He is the type of player I love, an outstanding receiver, gets the job done, and there is no fuss about him.

BizzyC

There are a few FA's in the market that could provide some production on the edge without breaking the bank...

Ted Ginn
Jacoby Ford (small, but fast as hell)
James Jones
Jacoby Jones
Kevin Ogletree
Jerome Simpson
Andre Roberts

I wouldn't mind seeing us pick up one of these guys as a speculative move while we see how the rookies progress.

kryogen

Fitzgerald would be a fantasy, and a very sweet one at that! Super player, imagine him and getting thrown to by Brady? The production would be through the roof!

Ah to dream............

Son Of A Vidic

After all of Brady's trials and tribulations this year, losing a new receiving corp and then having to break in a receiving corp. And despite Peyton's year and him having all the best weapons on his team. Not that anyone doubted it, but the lastest NFL survey has shown that Brady is still king clutch. The guy most players around the league would want leading their two minute drive down the field to win a SB. He won comfortably with 40% of the votes, Peyton was second with 26%. See poll below.......



http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10369063/tom-brady-new-england-patriots-voted-qb-most-players-want-clutch-survey?ex_cid=espnapi_public

dh1985

Fairly unanimous. He did have some epic comebacks this season

Son Of A Vidic

dh1985 wrote: »

Fairly unanimous. He did have some epic comebacks this season

From a deficit or tie position in the 4th quarter, he has now led the team to a phenomenal 41 wins, including the 3 Super Bowl wins.

Red Crow

I think Nicks would do a great job for you guys but there is no way you're going to sign him. He has multiple fines for being late and a very questionable injury history. He'd need to take a fraction of what Carolina or the Jets would offer him to play in Foxboro.

Red Crow

Red Crow wrote: »

I think Nicks would do a great job for you guys but there is no way you're going to sign him. He has multiple fines for being late and a very questionable injury history. He'd need to take a fraction of what Carolina or the Jets would offer him to play in Foxboro.

Another injury prone receiver?

Son Of A Vidic

If anyone can straighten out a wayward player it's Bill. But I'm just not feeling it for Nicks.

helimachoptor

What about Kenny Britt?
Big and quick.. had some serious drops this year (contract year) can get himself into trouble a bit especially in the off season and NE is a lot closer to NJ than Nashville is