New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

Son Of A Vidic

I think most if not all Pats fans welcome the move. Gregory was a good pro and a nice guy, but he didn't do the job we needed to be done. We need an Safety enforcer in the middle of the field and that's something Gregory could never be.

j8wk2feszrnpao

me89 wrote: »

Cap confirmed at $133 million so we now have a nice bit of cap space.

Resign Talib, as long as they have confidence with his injury.
Resign Edelman, I think he'll just want a fair deal.
Not too fussed about Blount, get rid if if wants too much.
I'd love to see us try sign Allen or Tuck, but lets not overpay.
We have a need at TE, that could be addressed in the draft, I'd even like us to trade up if we target the right guy.
A strong safety also is a need.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

And even if the our cap cap space is higher than anticipated, I still hope they tweak the Wilfork, Mayo and Mankins contracts

Yip, they should still target those contracts.

Son Of A Vidic

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Resign Talib, as long as they have confidence with his injury.
Resign Edelman, I think he'll just want a fair deal.
Not too fussed about Blount, get rid if if wants too much.
I'd love to see us try sign Allen or Tuck, but lets not overpay.
We have a need at TE, that could be addressed in the draft, I'd even like us to trade up if we target the right guy.
A strong safety also is a need.

Amen to all that. Landing Allen would be nice he would be a nice bookend to have on our line. Landing an effective SS would also be great. If we can add to our rush and add steel to the secondary then it could be a promising 2014 defensively. Talib won't get top price because of his 4-6 games missed a year. If he's realistic about that then a fair deal will be done for everyone. He genuinely loves been a Patriot, he found a home when others turned their backs. So I'll shocked if things don't work out

The extra cap space will hopefully allow us to sort out Edelman. A man who was often our only passing option. Give Boyce more exposure in the slot with Edelman in 2014. And now how do we get rid of Amendola without taking that +$2 million hit. A trade maybe? But then that unexpected cap space means maybe we can afford the hit now. I don't want to see 3 slot WR's on the roster in 2014 and the dead weight for me is Amendola. He'll never been on the same page with Brady the way Edelman is.

empacher

Patriots nation hinting that amendolas on the trade block. Linking him to a trade for revis. Seems a bit far fetched Revis and Talib could shut down alto of teams.

Son Of A Vidic

It is far fetched, Revis is destined to earn $16 million in 2014. Which would make him the highest paid player on our roster in 2014. So there's no way we are going to take that kind of hit against our cap. It would take one very desperate team to take that on.

TO.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

It is far fetched, Revis is destined to earn $16 million in 2014. So there's no way we are going to take that kind of hit against our cap. And it would take one very desperate team to take that on.

Add to that it is well known that Revis and Schiano don't get on and lets face it Schiano is destined to be on the Pats staff this coming season. He isn't right now but I can see it happening.

Son Of A Vidic

TO. wrote: »

Add to that it is well known that Revis and Schiano don't get on and lets face it Schiano is destined to be on the Pats staff this coming season. He isn't right now but I can see it happening.

Good point. Schiano is hovering around right now, but we all know he will be landing with us in the coming months.

empacher

empacher wrote: »

Patriots nation hinting that amendolas on the trade block. Linking him to a trade for revis. Seems a bit far fetched Revis and Talib could shut down alto of teams.

what was the full trade?

empacher

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

what was the full trade?

Combination of amendola and picks for revis

empacher

empacher wrote: »

Combination of amendola and picks for revis

itd want to be high picks or a lot of picks with amendola just thrown in

kryogen

Not for that money, no way Revis will be coming to New England the money he is due, and he isnt at the top of his game anymore either. Would be awful from a business POV tbh

Son Of A Vidic

What I should have pointed out in my previous post was - Amendola's base salary for 2014 is $3 million (add $375,000 for a roster bonus). There's absolute no way we are going to discard a guy on $3 million in 2014, for a guy on $16 million in 2014. Now if it was Megatron? Then I'd say yes, they might go for it and finally give Tom a top class weapon.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Agreed with everyone. No way we are signing Revis for that money.
Is he even a $16m shutdown corner anymore?

kryogen

Simple answer

No

Son Of A Vidic

I was wondering how our young rookie Dobson was doing and how his foot is coming a long and I came across this nice article.

http://bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/new_england_patriots/2014/03/pats_hope_aaron_dobson_injury_woes_alleviate_with

The best rookie to take the field in the Brady era with his 4 TD's and 519 Yards. I've no doubt he could have put up more numbers only for he was plagued by that foot injury towards the end of the season. He was just starting to motor along nicely when the foot problem started during week 12. I really liked reading this part of the article...

Dobson has maintained regular contact with Brady this offseason as a way to increase their chemistry, even just while discussing the game over the phone. And Dobson said he’ll absolutely join Brady this offseason in Los Angeles, where the quarterback likes to run strenuous practices with his pass catchers.

Hopefully he can shake off the foot injury and get back to 100%. Strengthen that bond & trust with Brady, keep healthy and I think this kid could have a huge break out year for us in 2014. Still, I would still like to see us land a similar sized WR this offseason, either through the draft or FA. We need more of these bigger, outside threat WR's on the roster. Because we sorely missed Dobson when he wasn't on the field. Having a bloated roster full of smaller slot WR's did limit our options once again at the business end of last season.

TO.

No Franchise tag used on Talib he hits the open market.

eagle eye

Talib might get huge offers as long as he is willing to have a large game bonus as part of his contract. I don't think anybody will pay him huge guaranteed money given his injury history.

Son Of A Vidic

I see Brent Grimes got a 4 year, $32 million dollar contract from the Phins with $16 million guaranteed. Little bit on the pricey side I feel and it also sets a benchmark for the CB market. As EE said Talib's, injury history will make suitors reluctant to him that kind of money. But the Grimes benchmark might make things with Talib a bit pricier than we planned for.

dh1985

I see Boldin is staying in san fran

j8wk2feszrnpao

Regular season 5th game @ Cincinnati (11-5)

The Pats issues on offense would be exposed big time in this game.
It all begun on the first passing play (2nd play of the game) when the OL allowed a sack right down the middle unopposed.
Tom would be sacked three more times, and suffered a number moments under pressure.
We also fumbled the ball 4 times, lost it once.
Pats were 1 of 12 on 3rd down, had 15 1st downs, and punted 8 times.
Bolden had the most catches (6), and also had a terrible drop (Pats entered the game tied 2nd for most drops in NFL).
In the 4th quarter, with the game at 13:3, the Pats were 1st down at the Cinci 1yd line, and we'd to settle for a FG.
Tom entered the game with 52 games with at least one passing TD, but we only scored 6pts on the day.

The defense did continue to do their bit.
We sacked Dalton 4 times (credit to Chris Jones with 1.5 sacks).
With Vince out, Cinci ran the ball 39 times. This suited Spikes, who had one of his better games, he also got an INT when Dalton threw an awful pass across his body in the 1st quarter.
Approaching HT, Pats were down 3:0, and the D forced a 3 and out to give the Pats a chance and we went in 3:3.
Even at the end of the game, when it looked over, the Pats D forced a fumble and Mayo recovered. Pats did nothing on offense, but D again forced a 3 and out, but offense did nothing (Tom got intercepted - to be fair there was a monsoon at the end of the game).

The only really bad moment on defense was all Arrington.
Towards the end of Q3 (down 6:3), Kelly sacked Dalton on the Cinci 2yd line.
Next play (3rd and 15), Arrington allowed Jones in behind him and gave up 28yds, just awful coverage.
Cinci scored their TD on that drive.
Towards the end of that drive is when Tommy Kelly picked up his injury.

Pats fell to 4:1 with this 13:6 loss, and faced a tough home game against the Saints.

Son Of A Vidic

What you touched upon there, that's the biggest thing I can remember from that Bengals - how shyte our O line play was. I also remember it as the worse O line performance of the season up to that point. And sadly, it wasn't the last.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

What you touched upon there, that's the biggest thing I can remember from that Bengals - how shyte our O line play was. I also remember it as the worse O line performance of the season up to that point. And sadly, it wasn't the last.

Tom was in the top 10 for most sacks taken (40).
Which is quite bad and makes you think about what Tannehill suffered (58).
Manning was joint 34th for most sacks (18).

It's probably fair to say that missing so many of his 2012 receivers, did contribute to the rise in sacks (27 in 2012). But even then in 2012 Manning was sacked only 21 times.

Son Of A Vidic

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Tom was in the top 10 for most sacks taken (40).
Which is quite bad and makes you think about what Tannehill suffered (58).
Manning was joint 34th for most sacks (18).

It's probably fair to say that missing so many of his 2012 receivers, did contribute to the rise in sacks (27 in 2012). But even then in 2012 Manning was sacked only 21 times.

That 13 extra sacks in 2013 represents a 48% increase on 2012 which is shockingly bad. As you said, having lost virtually the entire WR corp in 2013 didn't help. But I also think our interior OL was the Achilles heal. Ryan Wendell is about 35 Lbs undersized for the position he plays. He needs to be moved from playing Centre in 2014 and at least put Connolly in there to beef up the position.

Corvus Maximus

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

That 13 extra sacks in 2013 represents a 48% increase on 2012 which is shockingly bad. As you said, having lost virtually the entire WR corp in 2013 didn't help. But I also think our interior OL was the Achilles heal. Ryan Wendell is about 35 Lbs undersized for the position he plays. He needs to be moved from playing Centre in 2014 and at least put Connolly in there to beef up the position.

i think size is overrated in o-linemen and centers in particular, its about lower body power and control. being heavy is often a massive issue as it makes it more likley foot control will be an issue. wendell is heavier than jason kelce for example who is arguably the best center in the nfl.

(i know this is not the point your making and thus is a bit off topic. just said id give my two cents)

Son Of A Vidic

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

i think size is overrated in o-linemen and centers in particular, its about lower body power and control. being heavy is often a massive issue as it makes it more likley foot control will be an issue. wendell is heavier than jason kelce for example who is arguably the best center in the nfl.

There's no escaping the ideal physical profiles you want to see from any position on a football field. And when it comes to playing Centre, Wendell lacks beef. Having watched Wendell playing for a few seasons now, it has become abundantly clear to me that his lack of size really is his Achilles heel. I have watched him being out muscled on multiple occasions and it was nothing go do with his technique.

That said, he has played well above expectations and his technical ability has allowed him to do that. But in the big games it was his size that let him down. The AFC title game was a prime example. Our interior line virtually collapsed and it came from Wendell being physically dominated at Centre.

It was in those big games and in those big moments, that those missing 30 -35 Lbs really showed up.The missing bulk is his weakness and if he could add that to his game. Then I'd be more than happy to keep him at Centre.

TO.

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

i think size is overrated in o-linemen and centers in particular, its about lower body power and control. being heavy is often a massive issue as it makes it more likley foot control will be an issue. wendell is heavier than jason kelce for example who is arguably the best center in the nfl.

(i know this is not the point your making and thus is a bit off topic. just said id give my two cents)

Very true the misconception with Offensive linemen is weight. Weight actually isn't a major factor with Offensive linemen at all. Strength Agility and quickness combined with lower core strengths are more important. Also having a long reach as a Tackle would be beneficial.

TO.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

There's no escaping the ideal physical profiles you want to see from any position on a football field. And when it comes to playing Centre, Wendell lacks beef. Having watched Wendell playing for a few seasons now, it has become abundantly clear to me that his lack of size really is his Achilles heel. I have watched him being out muscled on multiple occasions and it was nothing go do with his technique.

I dont agree that his size is hampering him. His biggest problem is that he is slow and lacks strength and agility and of course when you add in weight it all adds up but if he was quicker and more agile he wouldn't have the problems he has.

It was in those big games and in those big moments, that those missing 30 -35 Lbs really showed up.The missing bulk is his weakness and if he could add that to his game. Then I'd be more than happy to keep him at Centre.

Thing is though as Noel Jolly Fountain pointed out there are probably linemen in the league that weight less or close to the same that dont struggle as much as Wendell.

To add Pass Protection isn't all about size either.

Son Of A Vidic

When Wendell took over at Centre in 2012 he had a fine season. And he was one of our top performers and players of the 2012 season. He came across as a tough, smart, technical sound footballer and he seemed to make his lack of size a non-issue. But why did he suddenly regress and go backwards in 2013? Well I don't think he stopped being a tough, smart, technically smart footballer. I think it was simply because D line coaches targeted his one obvious Achilles heel - those lack of pounds.

And it really showed up against the tougher defenses. Against teams with a strong sustained pass rush attack. Wendell's lack of size just seems to shows up, he just got overwhelmed trying to preserve the pocket. His run blocking can't be faulted and it is technically sound. Yet in the AFC title game there was one play that really stuck in my mind. Terrance Knighton lined up opposite Wendell, Brady hands the ball off to Ridley and knighton brushes aside Wendell's attempted block.

That was the moment that decided it in my own mind. Wendell could have really done with those extra 30Lbs against Knighton. I don't think we can afford to have him at Centre going into the 2014 season unless the issue is addressed.A lot of the pocket pressure during the season came from the interior line and I think Wendell was a key target. He was widely lauded for his play in 2012, but as the 2013 season wore on, his lack of size seemed to let him down.

So for the record, I have never said size is everything for a player. But when I look a Wendell, it's the one missing component that he needs to add to his game. There are a few, but not many undersized Centre's in the League and if they are delivering well that's great for them. But I couldn't care less, because as a Pats fan and I'm only worried about our Centre - Ryan Wendell. Coming off a fine season in 2012, Wendell has regressed in 2013. His chink in his armour is his size and if he doesn't sort it then Bill needs to sort him.

TO.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

When Wendell took over at Centre in 2012 he had a fine season. And he was one of our top performers and players of the 2012 season. He came across as a tough, smart, technical sound footballer and he seemed to make his lack of size a non-issue. But why did he suddenly regress and go backwards in 2013? Well I don't think he stopped being a tough, smart, technically smart footballer. I think it was simply because D line coaches targeted his one obvious Achilles heel - those lack of pounds.

And it really showed up against the tougher defenses. Against teams with a strong sustained pass rush attack. Wendell's lack of size just seems to shows up, he just got overwhelmed trying to preserve the pocket. His run blocking can't be faulted and it is technically sound. Yet in the AFC title game there was one play that really stuck in my mind. Terrance Knighton lined up opposite Wendell, Brady hands the ball off to Ridley and knighton brushes aside Wendell's attempted block.

That was the moment that decided it in my own mind. Wendell could have really done with those extra 30Lbs against Knighton. I don't think we can afford to have him at Centre going into the 2014 season unless the issue is addressed.A lot of the pocket pressure during the season came from the interior line and I think Wendell was a key target. He was widely lauded for his play in 2012, but as the 2013 season wore on, his lack of size seemed to let him down.

So for the record, I have never said size is everything for a player. But when I look a Wendell, it's the one missing component that he needs to add to his game. There are a few, but not many undersized Centre's in the League and if they are delivering well that's great for them. But I couldn't care less, because as a Pats fan and I'm only worried about our Centre - Ryan Wendell. Coming off a fine season in 2012, Wendell has regressed in 2013. His chink in his armour is his size and if he doesn't sort it then Bill needs to sort him.

I could go back and forward with you on his but I wont and leave you with that Weight is not the reason Wendell gets owned the odd time. If weight was an issue every 330+ DT he came against would own him. I have been to lineman clinics and been to HS and college practices and seen guys as small as Wendell deal with guys with 40-50 pounds on them. Technique quickness and agility and strength are key. You don't need to be heavy to be strong or not get pushed around.

You do realise though the average weight on the Pats O-line is 310lbs and Canon's 340 is driving up the average. Only 1 other Pats lineman is 320+ and the rest are all between 300 and 310. Logan Mankins is 310 so as a centre Wendell is avg. Centers generally are the smallest on the line to begin with.

Other NFL Centers:

Chris Myers 290
Nick Mangold 307
Scott Wells 302
Jeff Saturday 295
John Sullivan 301
Ryan Kalil 295
Eric Wood 210
Todd McClure 296
Alex Mack 311

I could go on but you can see he is the average size for a NFL Center. So his weight plays no part in my eyes as someone who deals with linemen in his lack of ability at times.