New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

Son Of A Vidic

TO. wrote: »

I could go back and forward with you on his but I wont and leave you with that Weight is not the reason Wendell gets owned the odd time. If weight was an issue every 330+ DT he came against would own him. I have been to lineman clinics and been to HS and college practices and seen guys as small as Wendell deal with guys with 40-50 pounds on them. Technique quickness and agility and strength are key. You don't need to be heavy to be strong or not get pushed around.

You do realise though the average weight on the Pats O-line is 310lbs and Canon's 340 is driving up the average. Only 1 other Pats lineman is 320+ and the rest are all between 300 and 310. Logan Mankins is 310 so as a centre Wendell is avg. Centers generally are the smallest on the line to begin with.

Other NFL Centers:

Chris Myers 290
Nick Mangold 307
Scott Wells 302
Jeff Saturday 295
John Sullivan 301
Ryan Kalil 295
Eric Wood 210
Todd McClure 296
Alex Mack 311

I could go on but you can see he is the average size for a NFL Center. So his weight plays no part in my eyes as someone who deals with linemen in his lack of ability at times.

I did point out that I was well aware of smaller centres playing in the league. Now whether any of those you listed played as badly as Wendell did at times, doesn't matter to me. Because I am only concerned with Wendell and not the ability or lack of ability of other centres. We both discussed our own Football experiences in the past. And as a former player like yourself, I am very aware that size can often mean nothing in Football. Because skillful technique & speed will overcome it most of the time.

We both know it was the brilliance of Scar that has guys like Wendell on our team in the first place. He wasn't blessed with 1st rate talent, but Scar moulded him into a starter. So I looked at Wendell in 2012 and he seemed to have locked up starting at centre. Which was largely due to him performing better than expected. But in 2013 that has changed and since Scar has probably coached the shít outta him, the only adjustment I can see Wendell making to his game now is by adding size. Now it is quite possible that he still won't be good enough if he does add some size. But adding bulk is the only adjustment I can see right now, that holds out any hope that his play won't deteriorate further.

TO.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

And it really showed up against the tougher defenses. Against teams with a strong sustained pass rush attack. Wendell's lack of size just seems to shows up, he just got overwhelmed trying to preserve the pocket. His run blocking can't be faulted and it is technically sound. Yet in the AFC title game there was one play that really stuck in my mind. Terrance Knighton lined up opposite Wendell, Brady hands the ball off to Ridley and knighton brushes aside Wendell's attempted block.

I watched that game again to see what you were talking about and if I had time I would take that clip out and make it a gif or something but this was a case of Wendell being too slow to make the block and Knighton getting lower first. Had nothing to do with his size. Had Wendell burst out of his stance quicker and got lower quicker he would have stopped the block again his size is irrelevant.

I know linemen so well and bulking up Wendell who is only 6'2 will be pointless. Size is not his issue. Now I would use other examples here of my experience but you seem to be confusing what I am trying to say for me just peacocking my experience but Wendell's issues are not his size and I would go out on a limb and say Wendell probably couldn't bulk up anymore without making him less agile and slower given his current height and weight.

Plenty of Centers and linemen in the league lighter than Wendell who can push Nose tackles around who have 40 odd pounds on them. Size is not the be all and end all. Anyways Im done with this you have your opinion and I have mine.

Son Of A Vidic

TO. wrote: »

I watched that game again to see what you were talking about and if I had time I would take that clip out and make it a gif or something but this was a case of Wendell being too slow to make the block and Knighton getting lower first. Had nothing to do with his size. Had Wendell burst out of his stance quicker and got lower quicker he would have stopped the block again his size is irrelevant.

I know linemen so well and bulking up Wendell who is only 6'2 will be pointless. Size is not his issue. Now I would use other examples here of my experience but you seem to be confusing what I am trying to say for me just peacocking my experience but Wendell's issues are not his size and I would go out on a limb and say Wendell probably couldn't bulk up anymore without making him less agile and slower given his current height and weight.

Plenty of Centers and linemen in the league lighter than Wendell who can push Nose tackles around who have 40 odd pounds on them. Size is not the be all and end all. Anyways Im done with this you have your opinion and I have mine.

RE: Peacocking? No need to be jumping to conclusions there on my part. You are perfectly entitled to refer to your own playing/coaching experience, as am I. I don’t have your coaching background but if you recall. I told you awhile back that I was often utilised as an undersized DE on snaps when I played. Speed and technique allowed me to beat guys who were 40Lbs pounds heavier. So yes I am very well aware that size guarantees nothing.

So there's no need to be saying “Size is not the be all and end all.” Because I never said it was. Now perhaps our new O line coach can improve him technically, but I do believe that Scar has probably coached every bit of ability out of Wendell. So the only adjustment I can see that he needs to make is adding size. And the reason I think that is because of Scar and his legendary coaching ability.

So for the record, I think we do agree on the impact size may or may not have on players in general. But we don’t agree on how it may or may not affect Wendell. I said in my last post that it may or may not work for him, but it’s the only area I can see an adjustment being made. If Wendell does stay on the roster in 2014, it will be really interesting to see how things progress with the new O line coach.

Speaking of which, have you picked up any more titbits on this new coach?

Iv not seen much of him but undersized guys like that often lose all there footwork if they put on a lot of weight.

Perhaps your right on the weight a bit but More in the arse and thighs if possible than up top that would do wonders but I'd imagine all these guys are trained to the max there

Hazys

Champ Bailey was released today...



Should have been a touchback!!

eagle eye

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

Iv not seen much of him but undersized guys like that often lose all there footwork if they put on a lot of weight.

Perhaps your right on the weight a bit but More in the arse and thighs if possible than up top that would do wonders but I'd imagine all these guys are trained to the max there

Fully agree. Adding weight can be more of an issue than a help in a lot of cases and I'd say that would be the case with Wendell. I think he is at his best weight and I don't think he can get any better than he is by beefing up. He just has to be faster out of the blocks as TO says was the issue in a particular play being mentioned above.

Son Of A Vidic

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

Iv not seen much of him but undersized guys like that often lose all there footwork if they put on a lot of weight.

Perhaps your right on the weight a bit but More in the arse and thighs if possible than up top that would do wonders but I'd imagine all these guys are trained to the max there

A common misconception people often make is thinking that adding size automatically means you will be slower and more cumbersome. But if done correctly it should increase his explosive speed and power of the line. I think Wendell needs to start building better strength & lean muscle mass especially in the lower back & legs. I would put a specific emphasis on the Gluetals,Abductors & Abductor Magmus, Rectus Femoris, Vastus Medialis & Lateral muscle muscles in the leg region. Intensifying work on the entire abdominal & core muscle region should also compliment this. Now If he did this, then I think it would increase his ability to set & strengthen his stance and increase his power,speed and strength.

But the more I discuss this guy, the more I realise that he will probably be never good enough on pass protection. He's now a FA and based on his pretty poor 2013 season, we might get to keep him on the cheap as a back up. Now I don't know what the 2014 draft class is like for Centre's, but I really don't want to see Wendell starting in 2014. Still I would like to see them work on what I mentioned earlier and if they do, it should certainly stop the likes of Knighton merely having to use one hand to swat him aside.

TO.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

A common misconception people often make is thinking that adding size automatically means you will be slower and more cumbersome. But if done correctly it should increase his explosive speed and power of the line. I think Wendell needs to start building better strength & lean muscle mass especially in the lower back & legs. I would put a specific emphasis on the Gluetals,Abductors & Abductor Magmus, Rectus Femoris, Vastus Medialis & Lateral muscle muscles in the leg region. Intensifying work on the entire abdominal & core muscle region should also compliment this. Now If he did this, then I think it would increase his ability to set & strengthen his stance and increase his power,speed and strength.

You are assuming he isn't already working on his on strength and conditioning. Without knowing what his limits are and what his current program is, one couldn't possibly suggest that what he needs to do.

Still I would like to see them work on what I mentioned earlier and if they do, it should certainly stop the likes of Knighton merely having to use one hand to swat him aside.

It wont though. Even the best offensive linemen at times are too slow out of the traps.

Son Of A Vidic

TO. wrote: »

You are assuming he isn't already working on his on strength and conditioning. Without knowing what his limits are and what his current program is, one couldn't possibly suggest that what he needs to do.

I am speculating on areas that might be improved and that's all I can do is speculate. I never said he isn't already working on some sort of strength and conditioning, he wouldn't be playing football if he wasn't. I suggested that he might not be working/targeting the key muscle groups that I mentioned earlier. I mentioned them because they are critical areas to target in an isolation regime and could thus boost his performance.

Of course he could be doing this already and then that for me would mean there's no hope for him. Which then raises some worrying question, what is he doing playing in the team then if he's already maxed? And why jeopardise the health of Brady with a substandard pass blocker? He ranks as one of the worst centres in the league for pass protection. So if he starts for us next year, Brady could be facing an early retirement.

TO.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I am speculating on areas that might be improved and that's all I can do is speculate. I never said he isn't already working on some sort of strength and conditioning, he wouldn't be playing football if he wasn't. I suggested that he might not be working/targeting the key muscle groups that I mentioned earlier. I mentioned them because they are critical areas to target in an isolation regime and could thus boost his performance.

Of course he could be doing this already and then that for me would mean there's no hope for him. Which then raises some worrying question, what is he doing playing in the team then if he's already maxed? And why jeopardise the health of Brady with a substandard pass blocker? He ranks as one of the worst centres in the league for pass protection. So if he starts for us next year, Brady could be facing an early retirement.

I honestly think you are making more of the Wendell situation than needs to be. Bulking up will do him no favours at all and would be wasted energy and time. Granted none of us know what his off strength and conditioning regime is or the Pats one but this will boil down to that Wendell is probably just not good enough technically as for me that is the issue here.

But to be fair to EE and myself you should have been more specific when you talked about bulking up because it seemed like you wanted him to add more weight with strength thrown in there. I mean you said he could have done with those 30 more pounds. You also said he is 35 pounds undersized when he clearly isn't as the he within the average size of an offensive lineman. Adding those core groups you suggested will might not even add up to 30 pounds to him if he concentrates on them.

Having said that I spoke to an Offensive Line coach earlier this morning and we discussed the Wendell situation and he also believes that Wendell doesn't need any more bulking. He actually disagreed with your whole misconception explanation also. Yes those areas you described are key but Wendell and most offensive linemen in the NFL concentrate of their core muscle groups for their position every time they enter the gym as they do in college also. He actually said he doubts Wendell would be around if they thought he needed to do more work on certain areas as there is no way a NFL team would put a guy in there if he was lacking that badly especially the Pats.

We also discussed the the difference between Pass Blocking and Run Blocking and what is needed for each and Wendell is actually a good better run blocker believe it or not its his pass protection that has absolutely stunk for the most part. So in saying that his explosive speed and power of the line is actually fairly decent and to be honest it would be easy to find missed run blocks by about every Offensive lineman in the league to try make them look bad.

Where Wendell is concerned his Pass blocking has been the bigger worry and the explosiveness and speed is not necessarily key for pass blocking. Agility, quickness, base and footwork would be more important and bulking up muscle is not always key for fixing all of these areas as a lot of the time bad fundamentals are the reason for a lineman fooking up pass protection.

Son Of A Vidic

TO. wrote: »

I honestly think you are making more of the Wendell situation than needs to be. Bulking up will do him no favours at all and would be wasted energy and time.

I don’t think I am, I am worried about Brady’s health and he won’t last for much longer with a weakness like Wendell on the field. Total sacks went from 27 in 2012 to 40 in 2013. So a 48% increase in sacks is a real worry for me. And never mind the sacks, because pressures, hurries and hits on Brady all went up. Brady hasn't many years left and the last thing he needs is a substandard Centre in front of him.

TO. wrote: »

Granted none of us know what his off strength and conditioning regime is or the Pats one but this will boil down to that Wendell is probably just not good enough technically as for me that is the issue here.

If he and his coaches have covered all facets of his game, then you are right in saying he is probably not good enough.

TO. wrote: »

But to be fair to EE and myself you should have been more specific when you talked about bulking up because it seemed like you wanted him to add more weight with strength thrown in there. I mean you said he could have done with those 30 more pounds. You also said he is 35 pounds undersized when he clearly isn't as the he within the average size of an offensive lineman. Adding those core groups you suggested will might not even add up to 30 pounds to him if he concentrates on them.

My ideal Centre is 6'2" 305 - 315 Lbs. My ideal pocket QB is 6'4"/6'5" 225 - 245 Lbs. My ideal RB is 5'10" / 6'0" - 220 - 235 Lbs and so on. I have my own ideal physical profile for every position on the football field. So when I spoke about Wendell being undersized, I had it in my head he was around the 280 Lbs mark and thus way below the league average for a Centre which is 305 Lbs.

Maybe you thought I was suggesting he throw on some extra blubber and all would be grand, but I wasn't. Hopefully our discussion has allowed to me elaborate further upon my initial suggestion. The specific muscle groups I mentioned in the previous post, were areas I thought needed special targeting. Now if this was done it probably would add no more than 5-7 Lbs of lean muscle mass. Assuming it hasn't been done already.

TO. wrote: »

Having said that I spoke to an Offensive Line coach earlier this morning and we discussed the Wendell situation and he also believes that Wendell doesn't need any more bulking. He actually disagreed with your whole misconception explanation also.

Misconception explanation? I’m giving my opinion and sharing my thoughts with you and I don’t think anyone can say I’m wrong. No more that I couldn't possibility say that you are wrong in your opinion. I’m speculating on what he might need to do to improve and I've already said several times my suggestions might have no effect upon him at all. If someone told me they know/seen Wendell’s training regime and he’s already got it covered. Then fair enough, but all I'm doing is speculating and just thinking out loud.

TO. wrote: »

Yes those areas you described are key but Wendell and most offensive linemen in the NFL concentrate of their core muscle groups for their position every time they enter the gym as they do in college also.

We both know that the O line is often the most unathletic part of a football team. Take weight training for example, I do wonder are these guys still doing the same basic compound exercises from their college days? I wonder what kind of isolation training they’re doing? The kind of training that the areas I mentioned earlier need. How innovative is the Pats strength and condition coach? How often will he mix up and change Wendell’s regime and do some shock training to prevent him from hitting a plateau? As I've said, if they done this already, well then there’s no probably hope for him improving them.

Take Chandler Jones, he identified his own weakness and areas he wanted to work on after the end of the 2012 season. So during the off season he packed on about 10Lbs of muscle mass. The mistake he said that he made then was coming back and going OTT in preseason & camp, to the point where he basically burned off his gains. No matter how much you spoon feed a player, they have to take responsibility for themselves. I mentioned Jones because he is a prime example of how he himself wants to improve, get better and tries to remove a weakness from his game. So when I look at Wendell and I see him regressing in 2013, it raises questions for me. Perhaps he needs to take a leaf out of Jones book and follow his example. Because there’s only so much an O line coach or strength & conditioning coach can do for a player.

TO. wrote: »

He actually said he doubts Wendell would be around if they thought he needed to do more work on certain areas as there is no way a NFL team would put a guy in there if he was lacking that badly especially the Pats.

Yet the Pats deemed him good enough to protect Brady in the pocket, a task he failed at imo. We saw with our eyes how ‘good’ he was at times. And yet he was around for the entire 2013 season. Wendell was a major weakness in our O line in 2013. Too often I saw guys come straight through the middle to hit, pressure and disrupt Brady. At the end of the season, Wendell was ranked as the worst/second worst centre in football. Yet we allowed him to play all year.

TO. wrote: »

We also discussed the the difference between Pass Blocking and Run Blocking and what is needed for each and Wendell is actually a good better run blocker believe it or not its his pass protection that has absolutely stunk for the most part. So in saying that his explosive speed and power of the line is actually fairly decent and to be honest it would be easy to find missed run blocks by about every Offensive lineman in the league to try make them look bad. Where Wendell is concerned his Pass blocking has been the bigger worry and the explosiveness and speed is not necessarily key for pass blocking. Agility, quickness, base and footwork would be more important and bulking up muscle is not always key for fixing all of these areas as a lot of the time bad fundamentals are the reason for a lineman fooking up pass protection.

From the outset I said I was assuming that Scar has coached the crap outta Wendell and maxed out his technical skill/ability. And so assuming that to be the case, the only area of progress I thought he could probably improve upon was lean muscle mass in some key areas. Nobody can fault Wendell’s run blocking, because he is a good run blocker. But unfortunately our greatest weapon on the field is Tom Brady and Wendell’s all important pass blocking was quite poor on occasions in 2013. My gut tells me he'll not be a starting Centre for us again. A serviceable back up? Maybe, but not a starter. If we make no moves in this area during the draft/FA, then I expect Connolly to be our starting Centre in 2014.

TO.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I had it in my head he was around the 280 Lbs mark and thus way below the league average for a Centre which is 305 Lbs.

And as I said to you in my first response he is at the league avg for centers which is actually around 300.

We both know that the O line is often the most unathletic part of a football team.

Do we? I don't know what regimes NFL players do themselves during the season or off season but I can tell you the modern Offensive lineman is far from Un-Athletic. I have seen the work first hand in High Schools and Colleges here in the US and linemen are extremely athletic these days as these kids know the only hope they have at getting to the NFL is to be the best. The offensive linemen pre 2000's were un-athletic but not anymore.

Perhaps he needs to take a leaf out of Jones book and follow his example. Because there’s only so much an O line coach or strength & conditioning coach can do for a player.

Again how do you know he isn't already doing so?

Yet the Pats deemed him good enough to protect Brady in the pocket, a task he failed at imo. We saw with our eyes how ‘good’ he was at times. And yet he was around for the entire 2013 season. Wendell was a major weakness in our O line in 2013. Too often I saw guys come straight through the middle to hit, pressure and disrupt Brady. At the end of the season, Wendell was ranked as the worst/second worst centre in football. Yet we allowed him to play all year.

The thing with Centers you cant just go grab someone and slot them in there. They need rapport with Brady and lets face it with injuries Wendell became that guy. It is known that Brady and Wendell had rapport hence why Wendell became the Pats center due to injuries. Putting a center in there the QB doesn't trust would never work. And again to be fair to Wendell the Offensive line was an absolute mess at times this year. Simple stunts threw out the whole line at times and the majority of all rushes came up the middle against us and our Guards were just as much at fault as Wendell.

I don't see Wendell being the starting center either but I don't think he is totally to blame for all the pressure up the middle. I also don't think his size has anything to do with him getting better.

Son Of A Vidic

TO. wrote: »

Do we? I don't know what regimes NFL players do themselves during the season or off season but I can tell you the modern Offensive lineman is far from Un-Athletic. I have seen the work first hand in High Schools and Colleges here in the US and linemen are extremely athletic these days as these kids know the only hope they have at getting to the NFL is to be the best. The offensive linemen pre 2000's were un-athletic but not anymore.

You've obviously misinterpreted my previous point. I never said O linemen were not athletic, I said they were often the most unathletic part of a football team. There is a difference.

TO. wrote: »

Again how do you know he isn't already doing so?

I have said in a number of posts that I was merely speculating and making certain assumptions with the points I made. I also said that he could very well be already doing what I suggested.

TO. wrote: »

The thing with Centers you cant just go grab someone and slot them in there.

And that's why I already said we'll be most likely be starting with Connolly next Season. But if there is good talent available, then picking up someone in the draft and bedding them in would be wise move.

TO. wrote: »

It is known that Brady and Wendell had rapport hence why Wendell became the Pats center due to injuries. Putting a center in there the QB doesn't trust would never work.

Of course a centre needs rapport with his QB, it's the most important relationship on the offensive side of the ball that people often overlook. And I don't think anyone would be stupid enough to bring in a centre that Brady couldn't work with.

TO. wrote: »

And again to be fair to Wendell the Offensive line was an absolute mess at times this year. Simple stunts threw out the whole line at times and the majority of all rushes came up the middle against us and our Guards were just as much at fault as Wendell.

I won't get started on Connolly and to a lesser extent Mankins, otherwise this could really drag on. They both had bad games in 2013 and were woeful like Wendell in the AFC title game. But Wendell for me is a priority that needs attention this offseason.

TO. wrote: »

I don't see Wendell being the starting center either but I don't think he is totally to blame for all the pressure up the middle. I also don't think his size has anything to do with him getting better.

No he is not totally to blame but he shares a large portion of it for me. Now if he's already targeting those key muscle groups I mentioned a few posts back, then there really isn't much more he can do. But if he isn't? Then he really needs to and he will thus need to add a few pounds of critical mass to those key areas.

TO.

I'm bowing out of this now as its just going to go around in circles. You have your opinion and I have mine and as someone who deals directly with the position I think you are way off but hey what can you do.

And to answer your question earlier I have found out more about the new oline coach but what I was told was in confidence so I can't throw it up here. He should do a good job he knows his O-lines.

Son Of A Vidic

TO. wrote: »

You have your opinion and I have mine and as someone who deals directly with the position I think you are way off but hey what can you do.

You coach the position and I played against the position, so maybe we're almost destined to disagree. If Wendell is doing what I hope he's doing, then I've wasted my time worrying. But if he's not? Then I might not be off the mark at all with my concerns.

TO. wrote: »

And to answer your question earlier I have found out more about the new oline coach but what I was told was in confidence so I can't throw it up here. He should do a good job he knows his O-lines.

Well if you think he'll do a good job that's good enough for me. He seems to have done a good job with previous O lines and if nothing else, players might put their noses to the grind stone a bit more to impress the new coach.

Son Of A Vidic

Disappointed to see that Dobson's stress fracture did not heal as planned and he underwent surgery on it yesterday morning. It could put him out for up to 3 months. So he will miss start of the offseason program. Very frustrating because the team did the right thing, in trying to see if the foot would heal without surgical intervention. Would be nice to see us catching a break on a player injury for a change.

Son Of A Vidic

Getting worried now that Dobson's potentially missing part the OTA's and part of preseason workouts, might now cement Amendola's spot on the roster. There were rumours circulating that the Pats were looking to trade him, if true I hope Dobson's setback doesn't change their minds. If anything, I hope the Pats might now realise they really need another WR of Dobson's size and ability on the roster.

pats should pay whatever darren sproles and take a reciever with at least one of there first two picks if not both.

Son Of A Vidic

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

pats should pay whatever darren sproles and take a reciever with at least one of there first two picks if not both.

Sproules would be a nice acquisition and would make up for the hole Woodhead left. Vereen's hand disappointed me last season because he had some notable drops at key moments. We definitely need a second back on the roster with good play making ability in the passing game. Because Brandon Bolden has proven to be limited in that role when Vereen went down last season.

Corvus Maximus

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Sproules would be a nice acquisition and would make up for the hole Woodhead left. Vereen's hand disappointed me last season because he had some notable drops at key moments. We definitely need a second back on the roster with good play making ability in the passing game. Because Brandon Bolden has proven to be limited in that role when Vereen went down last season.

i think sproles is better than woodhead put him in that offense and ye are a different animal

Son Of A Vidic

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

i think sproles is better than woodhead put him in that offense and ye are a different animal

In 8 seasons Sproles has averaged 47 receptions on 60 targets (78.4% catch rate) for 422.6 Yards and 3.3 TD's a year.

In 5 seasons Woodhead has averaged 35.2 receptions on 46 targets (76.5% catch rate) for 334.8 Yards and 2TD's.

Woodhead was lower on the Pats depth chart than Sproles was at the Saints. So Woodhead was naturally less of a priority target for Brady in the passing game. Sproles was also a comfort blanket for Brees, where as in NE, Welker was Brady's comfort blanket.

But when Woodhead moved to the Chargers, he rose up the depth chart and his stats showed us more of his true ability because he finished 2013 with 76 receptions on 86 targets (88.3% catch rate) for 605 Yards and 6 TD's. Now if Bill had of known that Brady would have started last season with virtually his entire WR corp gone. Then there's no way we would let Woodhead go. And if he had of stayed, then he would have probably had a similar boost in production that Edelman had.

So personally I don't think Sproles is better than Woodhead, but they are very similar imo. The 2013 season showed us what a rise in the depth chart could do for Woodhead's numbers. If I was given the option of taking Woodhead back in the morning or signing Sproles? I would take Woodhead without hesitation.That said and since this is the real world. I would love to land Sproles because he is such a talented guy and he's probably the best player in the league equipped to replace our loss of Woodhead.

eagle eye

Personally I think Vereen is a better option to either of them. I think he is going to be a great, great player for us.

Goose_Hyypia

Miami spending big as usual.

Son Of A Vidic

eagle eye wrote: »

Personally I think Vereen is a better option to either of them. I think he is going to be a great, great player for us.

Potentially he should be. But I couldn't help but feel disappointing in him last season. He had a few bad drops when running some wheel routes and they stuck in my head. And his durability yet again remains a concern. If he can sort those issues out, then the world is his oyster.

spiralism

Sproles would be a nice toy for Brady but yous have Vereen anyways and had something similar with Woodhead as have been pointed out above.

Really though, do the Pats need another midget catching passes? Runty WR corps and a tiny pass catching RB, i dunno...

Also, i literally cannot believe Talib was let walk to us of all teams.

Utopia Parkway

Talib gone to Denver. Pats go for Revis now I wonder?

Pats were never going to pay Talib that much even if they had the cap space. Will they fork out big for Revis? Not like the Pats to do that but Revis is on a different level to Talib.

By all accounts Revis wants to be a Patriot but he also likes getting paid.

Son Of A Vidic

spiralism wrote: »

Sproles would be a nice toy for Brady but yous have Vereen anyways and had something similar with Woodhead as have been pointed out above.

We really need another RB that's a very good pass catcher, Vereen always misses games and we were really exposed when he was out last season. Sproles would be a very valuable addition to our RB corp.

spiralism wrote: »

Really though, do the Pats need another midget catching passes? Runty WR corps and a tiny pass catching RB, i dunno...

Not for the WR corp no, but for a quick, sneaky back coming out of the backfield I don't think it's a problem.

spiralism wrote: »

Also, i literally cannot believe Talib was let walk to us of all teams.

He wasn't let walk, there was just no way he was going to hold us to ransom and fleece us. Unfortunately the market was set when the Packers paid retard money for their CB. Talib was always destined to get more. But do you know what? I don't give a crap, he let us down in consecutive AFC championship games. In that game Dennard was carried of the field with the help of two assistants and before I could blink, he's back on the field still gimped but eager to step up and not let the team down.

Then Talib gets a minor blow to his knee, leaves the field and doesn't return. Amazingly enough, he's then able to spend the rest of the game standing on the sidelines and fully weight bear on the leg with no difficulty. I lost all respect for him after that gutless performance and I think a lot of Pats fans felt the same way.

Son Of A Vidic

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Talib gone to Denver. Pats go for Revis now I wonder?

Pats were never going to pay Talib that much even if they had the cap space. Will they fork out big for Revis? Not like the Pats to do that but Revis is on a different level to Talib.

By all accounts Revis wants to be a Patriot but he also likes getting paid.

Without multiple restructures we won't be able to afford Revis. Trading Amendola could be an option? And Wilfork has a massive cap figure this year and that money could go a long way towards paying Revis. Highly unlikely to think that Wilfork, who is a cornerstone player of the franchise would be cut. But losing Talib leaves a big hole, so you never know what could happen now in this cut throat business

Tristram

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

he let us down in consecutive AFC championship games.

I'm not sure the Pats would have made those games if it weren't for his contributions during the regular season. He did a great job for the Pats in his time there and I would have thought most fans would be sad to see a quality player like him leaving. At the end of the day the Pats couldn't afford him but I think it's always regrettable when you have to watch quality players leave. Welker and Talib are two players I think most teams would love to have on their roster.

bruschi

Tristram wrote: »

I'm not sure the Pats would have made those games if it weren't for his contributions during the regular season. He did a great job for the Pats in his time there and I would have thought most fans would be sad to see a quality player like him leaving. At the end of the day the Pats couldn't afford him but I think it's always regrettable when you have to watch quality players leave. Welker and Talib are two players I think most teams would love to have on their roster.

There is no way I'd have been happy for the Pats to agree to the deal Talib has got at the Broncos. There is no way he will last 6 years at that rate, and fair play to him and his agent for getting it. but he is like glass, and its not worth the unknwon factor of if he can last a game or be healthy all year. In the 2 years he has only managed 23 games out of a possible 36. To me, thats not worthy of such a long contract for so much money. If he was to stay at the Pats, I'd have only looked for performance and onfield related bonuses to make the bulk of the contract, but there is no way Talib would have agreed to that. Granted, he is a quality player, but I would far prefer spending that money on a more guaranteed player than Talib.

Also, on Welker, him moving didnt, IMO, come down to money. He had a chance to get similar if not more money with the Pats, but he chose to leave. As soon as he went he was talking crap about freedom of speech and the way BB handled players, so I'd say he felt stifled and wanted a change. More power to him, but I dont think it had anything to do with contracts as its not as if there was a gulf of difference between the offers he had on the table, unlike Talib.