New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

Hazys

Hazys wrote: »

I'm trying to think of a scenario that caused this and I don't see how it's anything but Vince acting childish.

Just say the Pats decided to completely low ball Vince, offering him $1m a year and gets offended and says No...well the pats are paying you $11m and are valuing u at $1m, so u are definetly getting cut, so no need to ask to be released.

I see only 2 possible outcomes for Vince after saying no to a restructuring: Vince gets paid $11m with the Pats or he gets cut...so why does he need to ask?

Nobody is going to trade for him at his current salary so that's not an option.

Vince feels he has been underpaid in his career, which is nobody's fault but circumstances (he signed his current contract, nobody forced him too). He's probably pissed an outside like Revis is getting paid more which is ridiculous. He must be seriously deluded at his current market value. I can't see him getting more than a 1 year $4m prove it deal like Raji.

Maybe the Pats are forcing him to accept a trade to the Jets? That would just be cruel, even at $11m a year lol

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think so. Wilfork has been apparently unwilling to restructure for weeks now. And from a team captain and a guy who should lead by example, that is really bad form. I also thought it was odd the other night when he quickly tweeted praising Talib for following the money. A lot of Pats fans thought Talib quit in the AFC title game when he got a minor knock. And to come out so publicly behind Talib, was just poor taste especially from a team captain.

Brady restructured last year to free up cap space for the team and help them out. So I expected to see no less from the likes of Wilfork a team captain. Tommy Kelly now has basically shamed Wilfork, when he willing restructured his paltry wages in comparison to Wilfork's earnings. And Kelly's only with the team for less than a year.

At 32 years old and the wrong kind of size to be making a 100% comeback from an Achilles tear. You have to wonder what has Wilfork been smoking, for apparently refusing to be flexible for the team. Asking to be released comes across as him trying to play hardball. But it's a game he can only lose and he'll damage his much loved reputation amongst us Pats fans while doing it.

sorry i know this is my 3rd post in a row on the same topic but the pats signed a contract why should vince "take one for the team" hes not got much of his career left he wont be earning much longer hes right to not take the cut.

also hes stayed with ye his whole career he could have hit free agency years ago and gotten huge money on the open market.

TO.

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

sorry i know this is my 3rd post in a row on the same topic but the pats signed a contract why should vince "take one for the team" hes not got much of his career left he wont be earning much longer hes right to not take the cut.

also hes stayed with ye his whole career he could have hit free agency years ago and gotten huge money on the open market.

Sure he is entitled to do whatever he wants and really doesn't have to take the cut if he doesn't want to. As you said every player is entitled to get paid. The thing here that is making it strange for every Pats fan is his now disgruntled attitude. He really didn't even have to ask to be released either.

We are talking about a guy who has always been a good guy and a true team player. So when a guy like that all of sudden asks to be released after negotiations its all a bit weird and off character. Either way if he doesn't accept the new deal the chances are the Pats would have just cut him anyways so asking for the cut is as I said weird. Guys like Wilfork are the last people who you would think who would act like this and that is the problem for me anyways.

If he believes he will get better money elsewhere so be it thank you for your 10 service you have been a true great and goodbye.

TO.

TO. wrote: »

Sure he is entitled to do whatever he wants and really doesn't have to take the cut if he doesn't want to. As you said every player is entitled to get paid. The thing here that is making it strange for every Pats fan is his now disgruntled attitude. He really didn't even have to ask to be released either.

We are talking about a guy who has always been a good guy and a true team player. So when a guy like that all of sudden asks to be released after negotiations its all a bit weird and off character. Either way if he doesn't accept the new deal the chances are the Pats would have just cut him anyways so asking for the cut is as I said weird. Guys like Wilfork are the last people who you would think who would act like this and that is the problem for me anyways.

If he believes he will get better money elsewhere so be it thank you for your 10 service you have been a true great and goodbye.

exactly hes been the consummate professional but yet the pats are turning around ad saying thanks for all the years of loyalty but we dont want to pay you what we said we would any more so take a pay cut or your outy.

its not kraft or anyone in the pats organisation i have an issue with its the way that everyone always seems to have an issue with the player not taking a pay cut but never with the organisation for not honoring the contracts they sign. i understand wilfork being pissed

kryogen

The contracts signed are well known to be likely re negotiated at some point, its about cap manouvering too

kryogen

kryogen wrote: »

The contracts signed are well known to be likely re negotiated at some point, its about cap manouvering too

but why do we see that as acceptable particularly in the case of such a loyal player

TO.

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

exactly hes been the consummate professional but yet the pats are turning around ad saying thanks for all the years of loyalty but we dont want to pay you what we said we would any more so take a pay cut or your outy.

It is nothing new that professional sports teams especially pro football show no loyalty so its not like this whole thing popped up out of the blue. Football teams especially the Pats have always been ruthless with contracts especially when a player is at the end of his years or close to. They pay on potential worth not years of service. That is no surprise and it shouldn't have been to Wilfork either. Sure if he doesn't want to do the deal fair enough you will either be kept or the Pats will cut you to save cash. But prematurely asking for a release is the weird thing here.

its not kraft or anyone in the pats organisation i have an issue with its the way that everyone always seems to have an issue with the player not taking a pay cut but never with the organisation for not honoring the contracts they sign. i understand wilfork being pissed

Everyone? Sweeping generalisation much? Personally I could care less if he takes the cut or not. If he doesn't want to that is his choice but whether or not the Pats decide to keep him for not taking the cut is another thing. They most likely wont but again as I said its the weirdness of him asking to be released that has irked us more well me personally anyways than him not taking a cut. Its just out of character for him to ask to be cut without seeing the outcome of refusing to re-negotiate.

Son Of A Vidic

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

but the teams are not loyal to the players why should the players take one for the team

Because no one man is ever bigger than the team and that's a mantra the Patriots franchise live by more than most others. If Wilfork won't act for the good off the team, well then Belichick will act for the good of the team.

Brady extended in 2012 to free up cap space and in 2013 he again restructured to free up more cap space once again for the team. A player can do whatever he wants at the end of the day. But for a team captain who preached the patriot way, who espoused the do you job team team first mentally. To suddenly go and do something like this? Well it makes him look like he was speaking out of both sides of his mouth.

There's no mystery here, we lost some fine players in the past because they tried to play the ransom card. Hardball tactics don't work in this franchise and Wilfork of all people should know that. This isn't the Dallas Cowboys after all and thank God for that.

kryogen

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

but why do we see that as acceptable particularly in the case of such a loyal player

What do you mean acceptable? Its the way its done! If you wanna get into the cap and is it fair etc thats another discussion entirely.

Big Vin doesnt wanna take a pay cut to help the team, thats his right, I dont and wont hold any ill feeling to him for it, but from a business POV the team must come first, there is no player bigger then the team, certainly in New England!

When you see your franchise QB re structuring to help the cause (and not just once!) it sets an example that the others will either follow or be shipped out. Its all about the team here, not the individual.

I am certain Vin will leave with no grudges on the Pats end, and he will always be remembered fondly

but hes lived the "patriot way" his whole career hes quietly been a hall of fame player in my opinion and hes one of the few elite big d linemen that does not really take plays off what more can you ask for.

i find it baffling that ye feel he is in the wrong for this and being "childish"

an example close to my own heart is when brian dawkins went to the broncos his contract ended and we told him what wed give the broncos payed way over the odds for him and we said sorry we cant match that if the organisation basically told bdawk take a pay cut or **** off were cutting you there would have been riots.

kryogen

kryogen wrote: »

What do you mean acceptable? Its the way its done! If you wanna get into the cap and is it fair etc thats another discussion entirely.

Big Vin doesnt wanna take a pay cut to help the team, thats his right, I dont and wont hold any ill feeling to him for it, but from a business POV the team must come first, there is no player bigger then the team, certainly in New England!

When you see your franchise QB re structuring to help the cause (and not just once!) it sets an example that the others will either follow or be shipped out. Its all about the team here, not the individual.

I am certain Vin will leave with no grudges on the Pats end, and he will always be remembered fondly

but people will hes already been called childish, not a team player and a person who speaks out of both sides of his mouth.

i understand it has to be done sometimes in due to the salary cap but i know if i was in his situation in particular i would definitely be a tad narky about it. i think his position is very understandable

Red Crow

Brady has earned a fortune and through endorsements and pay from NFL he can afford to take a pay cut. Also Brady will likely get many deals when he retires. This is Wilfork's last chance for another big pay check. Why would he give that up? You can't keep restructuring and expecting players to take a cut for the team. If Wilfork was injured badly next year and the Pats could save money big money by cutting him then they would cut him without a second thought. Why should Wilfork give a sh1t about what the Pats want? He's putting his body on the line every week to play ball for the Pats. If the Pats are struggling with the cap then they need to manage their numbers better.

Not every player is like Tom Brady, Chris Snee etc. I understand that he's probably not worth that money but you can't argue with Wilfork. I'd say he's pissed off as he was asked to take a cut and asking to be released is childish but he's still entitled to stick to his guns over his pay.

kryogen

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

but hes lived the "patriot way" his whole career hes quietly been a hall of fame player in my opinion and hes one of the few elite big d linemen that does not really take plays off what more can you ask for.

i find it baffling that ye feel he is in the wrong for this and being "childish"

an example close to my own heart is when brian dawkins went to the broncos his contract ended and we told him what wed give the broncos payed way over the odds for him and we said sorry we cant match that if the organisation basically told bdawk take a pay cut or **** off were cutting you there would have been riots.

So its sentiment that is troubling you?

Wilfork will be a HOF Patriot at the least, he has been a leader on and off the field, he has been a fantastic servant and a lynchpin in the D.

He is now coming back from a major injury, we have no idea how good he will be and how durable he will be, the money he will have to be paid this year is not justifiable anymore.

Thats it. He isnt unwanted, but he isnt worth such a huge salary this year.

If he thinks he can get it or significantly better elsewhere then more power to him, its not an emotional decision.

Sentiment can not come into it. That seems to be where you are having difficulty?

TO.

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

but people will hes already been called childish, not a team player and a person who speaks out of both sides of his mouth.

i understand it has to be done sometimes in due to the salary cap but i know if i was in his situation in particular i would definitely be a tad narky about it. i think his position is very understandable

You do realise though that most comments this early on when people call him childish is generally the first reactions people make when a player like Vin decide they want out. Its a big surprise and big shock to fans. When the dust settles and the story becomes more clear people will calm down.

There is not a Pats fan in here that thinks Vin doesn't deserve to get paid for his years of service. Not one I bet. But and its a big but we all know as Pats fans that is never going to happen and lets face it if we know it as fans so does Big Vin as someone who has been around 10 years. If he feels he will get the money elsewhere so be it. People will calm down when the dust settles as I said.

Its just weird seeing a guy we all love come out with such a reaction when he has been such a great team player and all round good guy.

kryogen

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

but people will hes already been called childish, not a team player and a person who speaks out of both sides of his mouth.

i understand it has to be done sometimes in due to the salary cap but i know if i was in his situation in particular i would definitely be a tad narky about it. i think his position is very understandable

Why bother requesting a release do you think?

kryogen

Red Crow wrote: »

Brady has earned a fortune and through endorsements and pay from NFL he can afford to take a pay cut. Also Brady will likely get many deals when he retires. This is Wilfork's last chance for another big pay check. Why would he give that up? You can't keep restructuring and expecting players to take a cut for the team. If Wilfork was injured badly next year and the Pats could save money big money by cutting him then they would cut him without a second thought. Why should Wilfork give a sh1t about what the Pats want? He's putting his body on the line every week to play ball for the Pats. If the Pats are struggling with the cap then they need to manage their numbers better.

Not every player is like Tom Brady, Chris Snee etc. I understand that he's probably not worth that money but you can't argue with Wilfork. I'd say he's pissed off as he was asked to take a cut and asking to be released is childish but he's still entitled to stick to his guns over his pay.

And big Vin is a pauper?

He doesnt have to give a **** what the Pats want

This is how teams manage their numbers

kryogen

kryogen wrote: »

So its sentiment that is troubling you?

Wilfork will be a HOF Patriot at the least, he has been a leader on and off the field, he has been a fantastic servant and a lynchpin in the D.

He is now coming back from a major injury, we have no idea how good he will be and how durable he will be, the money he will have to be paid this year is not justifiable anymore.

Thats it. He isnt unwanted, but he isnt worth such a huge salary this year.

If he thinks he can get it or significantly better elsewhere then more power to him, its not an emotional decision.

Sentiment can not come into it. That seems to be where you are having difficulty?

ya thats probably the most difficulty im having the rest of it i dont like but unfortunately as stated above its unavoidable with the cap but i would have expected more "im sad to see him go"s and "he'll always be pat"s to some of the reactions iv herd here and on other sites

the pats are the best run organization in football and the likes of kraft are an absolute credit to the sport but in wilforks situation hes not being childish in being a bit peeved

TO.

Red Crow wrote: »

Why should Wilfork give a sh1t about what the Pats want?

Are you kidding me? They are his employer for fooks sake. Such a ridiculous statement to make even if it is Pro Sports we are talking about.

He's putting his body on the line every week to play ball for the Pats.

This isn't even a great argument to make for any NFL player nevermind Vince Wilfork

If the Pats are struggling with the cap then they need to manage their numbers better.

The Pats like many teams are not struggling with the cap and the whole point of re-negotiations are actually managing their cap. They are trying to find ways to maxmise space. Hardly struggling. Sure their cap space was short but I wouldn't say they were struggling with it.

Tristram

When I first saw the Wilfork headline I was surprised and confused. Initially I thought "oh, he must know he isn't going to be able to come back from his injury as well/quickly as planned and wants to help the Pats free up some cap space". I truly am naive.

kryogen

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

ya thats probably the most difficulty im having the rest of it i dont like but unfortunately as stated above its unavoidable with the cap but i would have expected more "im sad to see him go"s and "he'll always be pat"s to some of the reactions iv herd here and on other sites

the pats are the best run organization in football and the likes of kraft are an absolute credit to the sport but in wilforks situation hes not being childish in being a bit peeved

Once people get used to it and the initial shock dies down I am sure those will make up 90% of the reactions.

I know I have stated I will be sad to see him go as Im sure others have so they are already there on this site.

I would argue that he is being a bit childish tbh requesting to be released, he knows he is going to be cut if he doesnt agree to restructure so why bother unless he is acting out of hurt/anger and lashing out or trying to get the bullet in first?

Its childish whatever way you look at it imo but its not something I am going to hold against him

TO.

TO. wrote: »

You do realise though that most comments this early on when people call him childish is generally the first reactions people make when a player like Vin decide they want out. Its a big surprise and big shock to fans. When the dust settles and the story becomes more clear people will calm down.

There is not a Pats fan in here that thinks Vin doesn't deserve to get paid for his years of service. Not one I bet. But and its a big but we all know as Pats fans that is never going to happen and lets face it if we know it as fans so does Big Vin as someone who has been around 10 years. If he feels he will get the money elsewhere so be it. People will calm down when the dust settles as I said.

Its just weird seeing a guy we all love come out with such a reaction when he has been such a great team player and all round good guy.

i understand its a first reaction and it will change but to attack (to strong a word i know) one of yere greats is crazy first reaction or not.

i do agree 100% with this post though just surprised to see whats been said

kryogen wrote: »

Why bother requesting a release do you think?

because hes pissed as i would be in his situation not childish or unpat like in the slightest just human

kryogen wrote: »

And big Vin is a pauper?

He doesnt have to give a **** what the Pats want

This is how teams manage their numbers

this kind of comment is frankly a crock of **** hes one of yere greatest ever players and hes hardly set a foot wrong for his entire career. grow up.

kryogen

Tristram wrote: »

When I first saw the Wilfork headline I was surprised and confused. Initially I thought "oh, he must know he isn't going to be able to come back from his injury as well/quickly as planned and wants to help the Pats free up some cap space". I truly am naive.

I would be happier with your version of events

kryogen

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

i understand its a first reaction and it will change but to attack (to strong a word i know) one of yere greats is crazy first reaction or not.

i do agree 100% with this post though just surprised to see whats been said



because hes pissed as i would be in his situation not childish or unpat like in the slightest just human



this kind of comment is frankly a crock of **** hes one of yere greatest ever players and hes hardly set a foot wrong for his entire career. grow up.

Answering a question of why should he give a **** what the Pats want with a simple, he doesnt have to give a **** is a crock of **** and I need to grow up?

You may need to step away from the computer chief

kryogen

kryogen wrote: »

Once people get used to it and the initial shock dies down I am sure those will make up 90% of the reactions.

I know I have stated I will be sad to see him go as Im sure others have so they are already there on this site.

I would argue that he is being a bit childish tbh requesting to be released, he knows he is going to be cut if he doesnt agree to restructure so why bother unless he is acting out of hurt/anger and lashing out or trying to get the bullet in first?

Its childish whatever way you look at it imo but its not something I am going to hold against him

of coarse hes hurt wouldn't you be in that situation?

well have to agree to disagree id say lads

kryogen

kryogen wrote: »

Answering a question of why should he give a **** what the Pats want with a simple, he doesnt have to give a **** is a crock of **** and I need to grow up?

You may need to step away from the computer chief

not an attack on you so much as the comment (and either i went over the top apologies;) )

but honestly do you really think he feels that way?

kryogen

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

of coarse hes hurt wouldn't you be in that situation?

well have to agree to disagree id say lads

You condoning a childish reaction doesnt make it less childish.

Being childish in certain situations is certainly understandable.

kryogen

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

not an attack on you so much as the comment (and either i went over the top apologies;) )

but honestly do you really think he feels that way?

Do I think Wilfork doesnt give a **** about the Pats?

No, of course not. As I said, I was answering a question. I think big Vin loves the team, I think he loves the area, loves the fans and I am sure this is a very, very tough time for him and his family.

kryogen

kryogen wrote: »

Do I think Wilfork doesnt give a **** about the Pats?

No, of course not. As I said, I was answering a question. I think big Vin loves the team, I think he loves the area, loves the fans and I am sure this is a very, very tough time for him and his family.

ahhhhhh misread that completely i thought you said he does not give a **** about the pats my mistake

kryogen

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

ahhhhhh misread that completely i thought you said he does not give a **** about the pats my mistake

I kinda guessed that, no worries man

kryogen

kryogen wrote: »

I kinda guessed that, no worries man

feel silly now:D

to be fair i think ye've all acknowledged him as a great. ye've just not agreed with the way he's dealt this particular situation.

TO.

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

feel silly now:D

to be fair i think ye've all acknowledged him as a great. ye've just not agreed with the way he's dealt this particular situation.

You two should hug it out